Billboard Hot 100: 12/21/2013

[ss8]

Dec 10, 2013 10:13:02 GMT -5 allow that said:

Dec 10, 2013 9:48:54 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

There were many weeks in 2004 where the entire top 13 or 14 would be black artists. That was during Urban and Rhythmic's peak airplay dominance, of course, but maybe it's just a genre thing.

The Hot 100 formula is never going to be perfect, so there's going to be periods of time where any genre has a handicap. In the 90's, it was rock music. In the 00's, it was pop music. At this moment, it's R&B and to a lesser extent rap (songs like "Adorn" and "Climax" would have gone top 10 with or without Pop support in the 90's or 00's). Would I like to see R&B in the top 10? Of course. Do I think the chart is "racist"? Not really.

What I DO think is racially biased (I fall short of saying "racist" because I don't think it's intentionally vindictive) is that Pop PD's have decided that their listening audience isn't into rap anymore, yet anytime a white artist puts out a song they support it to the max. How come rap is still popular enough for Mackelmore and Eminem but not J. Cole and Kendrick Lamar? Both were big buzz stories this year and released perfectly accessible tunes. It makes you think...

I clearly remember what was going on 10 yrs ago. Rap in all different forms (hardcore included) basically became the new 'pop' music. In the 80s and 90s it charted but in much less prominent way and the songs were more pop friendly. The radio landscape is def. now more similar to 15-20 years ago then 10 years ago. I remember there was a major backlash by around 2004/05. People started complaining left and right on message boards and in general that there was like ZERO variety (no dance, country, pop rock, and almost no songs on the radio/charts from non r&b US artists/songs, etc.) I remember an article from Billboard stating this fact- that it was the first time in many, many years that there was not a single British or Euro artist in the entire top 40. :/. Was basically ALL RAP and mid tempo r&b. Another big factor was a LOT of the songs were just juvenile, awful and forgettable lol. Very few get recurrent airplay or crossed over into other formats. By around 2006 things def. started to change for the better (more variety). It wasn't until 2008/09 that dance music made a huge comeback but in the form of EDM (which people are now starting to get burnt out with like they did rap by 2005 lol). 

[Deleted]

As we saw with Mariah and Madonna and basically everyone else. The longer the time in the spotlight, the less frequent the number ones become.

Of course continuing to latch on to hit records via a 'featuring' may prolong it a little too

[ss8]

^ thats why someone like Rihanna and Katy are milking every second of their youth and star power (w. minimal breaks) and just putting out single after single until one clicks and sticks(whether its feat. or 100% solo) to rack up as many #1s while the momentum and interest is still there. It's looking like Rihanna (out of all the solo singers out there) ain't stopping 'till she beats Mariah and even the Beatles lol. Shes making Mariah and Motolla in the 90s look slack lol. W/ Mariah, the majority of her #1s were solo though she def. was one of the first to do the whole feat. or putting out songs w/ other red hot singers/groups. W/ Mariah I remember she followed (for back then) a winning, consistent formula by releasing a studio album every 2 years around Oct. or Nov. for 10 years straight (in addition to the X-Mas album, Unplugged and her first Greatest Hits in '98). The only exception (far as studio album) was her first album came out in early '90 then Emotions was the first to be released in the fall of '91 (a little less than 2 years). But after Emotions, she pumped out studio albums every 2 years during the fall or late fall.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2013 10:13:02 GMT -5 allow that said:

What I DO think is racially biased (I fall short of saying "racist" because I don't think it's intentionally vindictive) is that Pop PD's have decided that their listening audience isn't into rap anymore, yet anytime a white artist puts out a song they support it to the max. How come rap is still popular enough for Mackelmore and Eminem but not J. Cole and Kendrick Lamar? Both were big buzz stories this year and released perfectly accessible tunes. It makes you think...

Kendrick Lamar's songs are the typical annoying rap that you would hear in GTA, that most pop listeners hate. Compare that to The Monster which is very pop in melody and instrumentation, and features the biggest pop artist of the past 2 years.

[allow that]

Dec 10, 2013 10:51:12 GMT -5 Codex said:

Kendrick Lamar's songs are the typical annoying rap that you would hear in GTA, that most pop listeners hate. Compare that to The Monster which is very pop in melody and instrumentation, and features the biggest pop artist of the past 2 years.

I agree that not all of Kendrick's songs are for pop radio, but "Bitch Don't Kill My Vibe" is so poppy that Gaga almost dropped in on it originally. It was a popular catch phrase among the public at large for most of the year. I don't see how it's less poppy than "Thrift Shop" or "White Walls."

Currently, Kid Ink's "Show Me" and Lupe Fiasco's (white-washed with Ed Sheeran) "Old School Lovin'" sound like two pop-friendly rap songs. I wonder where they'll end up...

And specifics aside, Drake's "Hold On We're Going Home" is the only non-whitewashed, authentic Urban song I can think of that went top 10 at Pop radio this year. Surely over the span of twelve months I should be able to think of another...

[Deleted]

"Thift Shop" is 'annoying rap' if you ask me. #shrug

[Push The Button]

Yeah, I always assumed "Thrift Shop" was a novelty rap song.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 10:48:40 GMT -5 ss8 said:

^ thats why someone like Rihanna and Katy are milking every second of their youth and star power (w. minimal breaks) and just putting out single after single until one clicks and sticks(whether its feat. or 100% solo) to rack up as many #1s while the momentum and interest is still there. It's looking like Rihanna (out of all the solo singers out there) ain't stopping 'till she beats Mariah and even the Beatles lol. Shes making Mariah and Motolla in the 90s look slack lol. W/ Mariah, the majority of her #1s were solo though she def. was one of the first to do the whole feat. or putting out songs w/ other red hot singers/groups. W/ Mariah I remember she followed (for back then) a winning, consistent formula by releasing a studio album every 2 years around Oct. or Nov. for 10 years straight (in addition to the X-Mas album, Unplugged and her first Greatest Hits in '98). The only exception (far as studio album) was her first album came out in early '90 then Emotions was the first to be released in the fall of '91 (a little less than 2 years). But after Emotions, she pumped out studio albums every 2 years during the fall or late fall.

Mariah never had the level of airplay dominance that is handed to Rihanna, though. A bulk of her #1's were due to single sales when that format was starting to be phased out by the labels.

Rihanna is benefitting from a corporate-owned radio system, where a small group of artists enjoy the fruits of a homegrown Top 40 format. Her sales also tend to peak at around the same time as her airplay, for some reason.

[allow that]

Dec 10, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Mariah never had the level of airplay dominance that is handed to Rihanna, though.

Never? Really?

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2013 11:33:58 GMT -5 allow that said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Mariah never had the level of airplay dominance that is handed to Rihanna, though.

Never? Really?

Yeah, that's majorly downplaying Mariah's 90s radio dominance. Mariah's first 10 singles went #1 at CHR/Pop radio. She never missed the Top 10 there once between 1990 and 1997, making for a much more consistent first several years than Rihanna's. Where Rihanna has the upper-hand is in the number of featured credits she has. That post also makes it sound like most of Mariah's songs only went to #1 because of high single sales. She had two Hot 100 #1s that weren't big airplay hits (but still went Top 10 at Urban, Rhythmic, or both) out of her 18 #1s.

[HolidayGuy]

Mimi's airplay run from 1990-1996 was pretty darn great. The love affair ran into trouble around 1997, though, as witnessed by the singles' performance (they "reunited" in 2005, but the kind of love affair that they had from 90-96 didn't last as long (understandable, given the number of years Mimi's been around).

The late 90s/early 2000s No. 1s she scored, that weren't as big at mainstream top 40 as earlier No. 1s, were "Honey," "My All," "Heartbreaker" and "Thank God I Found You." The former just cracked the pop top 10, while the others peaked top 15 (MA) and top 30 (H and TGIFY). "Touch My Body" wasn't a top 5 at pop radio, but was No. 2 Hot 100 Airplay.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 11:33:58 GMT -5 allow that said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:31:04 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Mariah never had the level of airplay dominance that is handed to Rihanna, though.

Never? Really?

She's never had the consistent radio exposure that Rihanna has experienced. Mariah had a massive amount of #1's on the Pop chart early in her career, but they petered off after album #3. Rihanna, as she approaches album #8, is sending single after single to the top of the Pop charts and the airplay charts.

It's astounding that even as she hops on these features that there has not been a radio burnout. She's being featured on Shakira's next single, so she'll be sailing on even more features until the first single from her next album is released next year. Mariah never had that kind constant radio exposure,

[NeRD]

1. EMINEM - The Monster f/Rihanna: 173.344 (+ 3.713)

5 years ago (12/20/08)

1 2 Live Your Life - T.I. ft. Rihanna (6th and final week @ #1)

I mean..it's pretty undeniable at this point. Getting her 13th #1 this week as well as breaking her tie with Katy for the most Pop #1, AND breaking her tie with Mariah for most airplay #1s.

Wow.

[ss8]

I agree there's a few select 'artists' who could simply burp on a recording w/ a clapping beat lol and it would get instant better airplay than 90% of everyone else out there now. But Mariah was w/ the most powerful record company and label head/mogul during the 90s. Its all relative (as the entire airplay and sales 'system' were different in 1994 than today).Still, its 100% separate but equal. Up until the late 90s, she was ALL over the radio (like Janet and Celine) but Mariah by far was the queen of 90s radio and sales- every bit as Rihanna and Katy are now and Madonna in the 80s. Most of her songs up until around the Butterfly/ Rainbow era hit #1 or came close on both the airplay and sales charts. I think it was around '97/Butterfly when she had the falling out with Tommy Motolla and Sony that her airplay def. started to decline but she still had strong single sales. Also, many have said that her singles were usually dramatically discounted even when her airplay was massive. It's no different today when A-list singers discount their singles (or add a special remix) on iTunes for a week or two. There's always been shade in the music biz and will continue to be. But Mariah was every bit radio gold/queen like Rihanna up until around 1997 (and briefly in 2005/06)

[allow that]

Dec 10, 2013 11:44:26 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:33:58 GMT -5 allow that said:

Never? Really?

She's never had the consistent radio exposure that Rihanna has experienced. Mariah had a massive amount of #1's on the Pop chart early in her career, but they petered off after album #3. Rihanna, as she approaches album #8, is sending single after single to the top of the Pop charts and the airplay charts.

This is false. Please read @jazzysoul47's post a few up.

Also, you are comparing two completely different times. In the 90's, the focus was on ALBUMS. The goal was to keep the same few songs on the radio for a long time. Coming back with a new album one year (or even two years) after a previous release was essentially unheard of. It's obviously not the same in the digital era. If you're going to compare then to now, please ensure you know about the industry and marketplace on both sides of the comparison.

Also, you say the "Pop chart" as if it's the only format where airplay counts. Mariah is an Urban and Rhythmic artist just as much (if not more) than she is a Pop artist.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 11:40:13 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:33:58 GMT -5 allow that said:

Never? Really?

Yeah, that's majorly downplaying Mariah's 90s radio dominance. Mariah's first 10 singles went #1 at CHR/Pop radio. She never missed the Top 10 there once between 1990 and 1997, making for a much more consistent first several years than Rihanna's. Where Rihanna has the upper-hand is in the number of featured credits she has. That post also makes it sound like most of Mariah's songs only went to #1 because of high single sales. She had two Hot 100 #1s that weren't big airplay hits (but still went Top 10 at Urban, Rhythmic, or both) out of her 18 #1s.

I probably muddled my point a bit. I was simply saying that Rihanna enjoys consistent, almost year-long radio support, even as she approaches her eighth studio album. "The Monster" is following "Stay," which also hit #1 on the Pop charts earlier this year. "The Monster" will certainly hit #1 on the Hot 100 and the Pop chart as she moves into a new album era next year.

I'm just saying that Rihanna's performance on top 40 (and airplay in general) has been more consistent than Mariah, who started to peter off a bit after album #3.

[Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...]

Dec 10, 2013 10:15:55 GMT -5 ss8 said:

haha thanks. You must know more than me esp. when it comes to that viral video (which was my only concern). I guess pre congrats on Rihannas 13th #1!! My god, at the age of 25, shes only 6 #1s away from beating Mariah 8^o. 'Should' be cake. Shes also coming for Madonnas record in the UK who has 13 #1s. Rihanna is already at 8. It's almost the same numeric difference (except its Madonna in the UK and Mariah in the US). Anyone know how many Mariah had by the age of 25? I'm pretty sure she was at only 8 or 9 cause I remember during the Butterfly era (when she was 27 or 28) her discussing how she broke the then 'record' for #1s with Honey. Madonna at that point had 11 #1s so Mariah must've achieved her 12th #1 at 27 or 28 while Rihanna will be on her 13th at just 25.

But Rihanna started at the age of 16 while Mariah started at 19. So you can't really use age to compare such a thing.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 11:51:28 GMT -5 allow that said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:44:26 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

She's never had the consistent radio exposure that Rihanna has experienced. Mariah had a massive amount of #1's on the Pop chart early in her career, but they petered off after album #3. Rihanna, as she approaches album #8, is sending single after single to the top of the Pop charts and the airplay charts.

This is false. Please read @jazzysoul47's post a few up.

Also, you are comparing two completely different times. In the 90's, the focus was on ALBUMS. The goal was to keep the same few songs on the radio for a long time. Coming back with a new album one year (or even two years) after a previous release was essentially unheard of. It's obviously not the same in the digital era. If you're going to compare then to now, please ensure you know about the industry and marketplace on both sides of the comparison.

Also, you say the "Pop chart" as if it's the only format where airplay counts. Mariah is an Urban and Rhythmic artist just as much (if not more) than she is a Pop artist.

There's no need to get snippy. I am well aware of how it all worked...I was there, after all.

This is merely what I was saying:

Mariah Carey - 4 #1's
Emotions - 4 #1's
MTV Unplugged - 1 #1
Music Box - 2 #1's
Daydream - 2 #1's
Butterfly - 0 #1's
Rainbow - 0 #1's
Glitter - 0 #1's
Charmbracelet - 0 #1's
The Emancipation of Mimi - 2 #1's
E=MC2 - 0 #1's
Memoirs of an Imperfect Angel - 0 #1's

Compared to:

Music of the Sun - 0 #1's
A Girl Like Me - 1 #1
Good Girl Gone Bad - 3 #1's (1 feature)
Rated R - 2 #1's (1 feature)
Loud - 2 #1's
Talk That Talk - 1 #1
Unapologetic - 2 #1's (1 feature)

I know that it's different eras, Mariah's #1's were also a different era compared to the hit makers before her. It just seems, to me, that Rihanna has been able to stretch her #1 singles out, and get the support, with more albums than Mariah.

It could all be moot and "The Monster" could end up as Rihanna's last #1 single, so who knows? That's just how I see it.

[allow that]

Dec 10, 2013 11:54:03 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

I probably muddled my point a bit. I was simply saying that Rihanna enjoys consistent, almost year-long radio support, even as she approaches her eighth studio album. "The Monster" is following "Stay," which also hit #1 on the Pop charts earlier this year. "The Monster" will certainly hit #1 on the Hot 100 and the Pop chart as she moves into a new album era next year.

"The Monster" is Eminem's single. If Pink, Sia, or even Keri Hilson for that matter appeared on a sugary rap-sung Eminem song, it'd be doing just as well. "Stay" peaked about ten months ago now; it's since been followed up with "Right Now" and "What Now" and they did not see this 'consistent airplay' that you speak of in such an automatic sense.

I'm just saying that Rihanna's performance on top 40 (and airplay in general) has been more consistent than Mariah, who started to peter off a bit after album #3.

Mariah's first FOUR albums (plus her Unplugged set and holiday album), which covered a time period almost equivalent to Rihanna's career-to-date, all received much more consistent airplay. Yes, *pop* radio support for Mariah began to peter off during Butterfly but that was eight years into her career.

[Deleted]

To go back to one of the points I made before, Rihanna has managed to rack up a lot more hits in the same amount of time because of all of her featured credits (something that not a lot of artists were doing in the 90s, including Mariah). I'd argue that as far as singles from their own albums goes, radio was more loyal to Mariah in the 90s than they are with Rihanna.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 12:09:14 GMT -5 allow that said:

Dec 10, 2013 11:54:03 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

I probably muddled my point a bit. I was simply saying that Rihanna enjoys consistent, almost year-long radio support, even as she approaches her eighth studio album. "The Monster" is following "Stay," which also hit #1 on the Pop charts earlier this year. "The Monster" will certainly hit #1 on the Hot 100 and the Pop chart as she moves into a new album era next year.

"The Monster" is Eminem's single. If Pink, Sia, or even Keri Hilson for that matter appeared on a sugary rap-sung Eminem song, it'd be doing just as well. "Stay" peaked about ten months ago now; it's since been followed up with "Right Now" and "What Now" and they did not see this 'consistent airplay' that you speak of in such an automatic sense.

I'm just saying that Rihanna's performance on top 40 (and airplay in general) has been more consistent than Mariah, who started to peter off a bit after album #3.

Mariah's first FOUR albums (plus her Unplugged set and holiday album), which covered a time period almost equivalent to Rihanna's career-to-date, all received much more consistent airplay. Yes, *pop* radio support for Mariah began to peter off during Butterfly but that was eight years into her career.

Fine. I concede.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 12:15:50 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

To go back to one of the points I made before, Rihanna has managed to rack up a lot more hits in the same amount of time because of all of her featured credits (something that not a lot of artists were doing in the 90s, including Mariah). I'd argue that as far as singles from their own albums goes, radio was more loyal to Mariah in the 90s than they are with Rihanna.

Isn't it almost the same, though? The age old argument of "singing the hook" vs. "the featured artist." The point could be made that most people buy those singles for the catchy chorus.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2013 12:17:35 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:15:50 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

To go back to one of the points I made before, Rihanna has managed to rack up a lot more hits in the same amount of time because of all of her featured credits (something that not a lot of artists were doing in the 90s, including Mariah). I'd argue that as far as singles from their own albums goes, radio was more loyal to Mariah in the 90s than they are with Rihanna.

Isn't it almost the same, though? The age old argument of "singing the hook" vs. "the featured artist." The point could be made that most people buy those singles for the catchy chorus.

The question is, "is radio playing "The Monster" because it's a Rihanna single (and thus, an example of radio's 'loyalty' to Rihanna)"?

[Lockheart]

Rihanna and consistent I wouldn't really put in the same sentence. If you look at her discography, its quite messy. But the thing with her, even if she flops with a few singles, she's able to recover herself fast (most artist wont/dont) and she's pretty smart or her label is for attaching her name to big names when she's in a rut. RR era tanked then LTWYL ushered in the LOUD era. UA was messy with the mishandling of singles and cut relatively short then TM helped regain the lost interest in her.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 12:20:02 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:17:35 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Isn't it almost the same, though? The age old argument of "singing the hook" vs. "the featured artist." The point could be made that most people buy those singles for the catchy chorus.

The question is, "is radio playing "The Monster" because it's a Rihanna single (and thus, an example of radio's 'loyalty' to Rihanna)"?

"Berzerk" hit the top 20 on Pop, so he still has viable playability (lol?) on the chart. But, this will be his first #1 on the format since his last single with Rihanna, so she's obviously giving him the extra push that programmers are looking for.

Now, whether it would have gone to #1 with Sia or anyone else, is a different matter. We'll just never know.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 12:23:34 GMT -5 Lockheart said:

Rihanna and consistent I wouldn't really put in the same sentence. If you look at her discography, its quite messy. But the thing with her, even if she flops with a few singles, she's able to recover herself fast (most artist wont/dont) and she's pretty smart or her label is for attaching her name to big names when she's in a rut. RR era tanked then LTWYL ushered in the LOUD era. UA was messy with the mishandling of singles and cut relatively short then TM helped regain the lost interest in her.

"Rude Boy" spent six weeks at #1 on the Hot 100 prior to "Love the Way You Lie," though.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2013 12:23:33 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:20:02 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

The question is, "is radio playing "The Monster" because it's a Rihanna single (and thus, an example of radio's 'loyalty' to Rihanna)"?

"Berzerk" hit the top 20 on Pop, so he still has viable playability (lol?) on the chart. But, this will be his first #1 on the format since his last single with Rihanna, so she's obviously giving him the extra push that programmers are looking for.

Now, whether it would have gone to #1 with Sia or anyone else, is a different matter. We'll just never know.

It's not a different matter though. Your argument is about radio's loyalty to Rihanna. If it would have gone to #1 with Sia on the hook, then it being a hit has nothing to do with loyalty.

[Push The Button]

Dec 10, 2013 12:26:16 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:23:33 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

"Berzerk" hit the top 20 on Pop, so he still has viable playability (lol?) on the chart. But, this will be his first #1 on the format since his last single with Rihanna, so she's obviously giving him the extra push that programmers are looking for.

Now, whether it would have gone to #1 with Sia or anyone else, is a different matter. We'll just never know.

It's not a different matter though. Your argument is about radio's loyalty to Rihanna. If it would have gone to #1 with Sia on the hook, then it being a hit has nothing to do with loyalty.

That's impossible to discuss, though. How can it be proven? How do we know Rihanna is or isn't the reason for "The Monster's" chart performance?

Regardless, it's a hit for him, and a hit for her. She has had many hits since their last collaboration, he has not.

[allow that]

Dec 10, 2013 12:23:33 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:20:02 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

The question is, "is radio playing "The Monster" because it's a Rihanna single (and thus, an example of radio's 'loyalty' to Rihanna)"?

"Berzerk" hit the top 20 on Pop, so he still has viable playability (lol?) on the chart. But, this will be his first #1 on the format since his last single with Rihanna, so she's obviously giving him the extra push that programmers are looking for.

Now, whether it would have gone to #1 with Sia or anyone else, is a different matter. We'll just never know.

Eminem has a tremendous amount of loyalty from fans and the general public (as seen by how well his album tracks are selling on iTunes). Radio notices and is loyal to Eminem as a result, but not all of his music is accessible. The two singles that Rihanna is featured on also happen to be Eminem's most radio-friendly. Of course Rihanna helps Eminem achieve that, but it's poppy Eminem that's got radio thirsty (Rihanna or not). Other could help him achieve that too.

I think Rihanna offers enough of her own material that radio has no need to be thirsty for new Rihanna features.

[Deleted]

Dec 10, 2013 12:29:10 GMT -5 Push The Button said:

Dec 10, 2013 12:26:16 GMT -5 @jazzysoul47 said:

It's not a different matter though. Your argument is about radio's loyalty to Rihanna. If it would have gone to #1 with Sia on the hook, then it being a hit has nothing to do with loyalty.

That's impossible to discuss, though. How can it be proven? How do we know Rihanna is or isn't the reason for "The Monster's" chart performance?

Regardless, it's a hit for him, and a hit for her. She has had many hits since their last collaboration, he has not.

That's the whole point. You're arguing radio's loyalty to Rihanna. If they're so loyal to her, why did her last two singles flop? Maybe it's not actually about loyalty.