neally
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Post by neally on Feb 16, 2014 10:55:48 GMT -5
This brings up a good discussion point. Do y'all think Kelly would be in the public's Top 3 or even 5 mainstream female vocalists ? If a poll were made, I think the Top 10 would be:
1. Mariah Carey (based on her previous talent rather than her current voice) 2. Christina Aguilera (based purely on hype rather than actual fact) 3. Adele 4. Celine Dion 5. Beyonce 6. Kelly Clarkson/Carrie Underwood/Jennifer Hudson 7. Pink/Lady Gaga (again based on perception rather than fact)
I don't think the public's perception of Rihanna or Katy Perry's vocals are as bad as many of us on PMB feel they are. So, I would not be surprised if they were in Top 10 simply based on their popularity rather than objective evaluation of their vocals.
I am someone in agreement with Beezlebub666 in that, while I believe Kelly is the top female mainstream vocalist today, the public's perception of that does not match it, mostly based on the fact that she sings mostly pop music and originated from a TV talent show; however, her high-profile stellar performances, such as Super Bowl, Inauguration, and Grammys 2013, have elevated her public perception of her talent.
I think that the industry would rate much closer to actual talent:
1. Beyonce/Kelly Clarkson 2. Adele 3. Carrie Underwood 4. Pink
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on Feb 16, 2014 11:03:43 GMT -5
Great question Neally. I actually think that, outside of the pulse bubble, Kelly's vocal capabilities are actually underrated. Shocker. I think the list you made is accurate. It's also a shame.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Feb 16, 2014 12:42:50 GMT -5
In my fantasy world, WDKY was destined to smash -_-
The more non-singles and live performances people (I know) hear the more they respect and/or like her! That's what I've observed.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Feb 16, 2014 14:33:01 GMT -5
1. Mariah Carey (based on her previous talent rather than her current voice) 2. Christina Aguilera (based purely on hype rather than actual fact) 3. Adele 4. Celine Dion 5. Beyonce 6. Kelly Clarkson/Carrie Underwood/Jennifer Hudson 7. Pink/Lady Gaga (again based on perception rather than fact) I mostly agree, but I would think Kelly would be almost dead last, with only Gaga behind her. People seem to think P!nk is ZOMG! ahmazeing
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Max_X5
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Post by Max_X5 on Feb 16, 2014 14:51:20 GMT -5
The thing is, Kelly is never marketed as a great vocalist. While Christina's PR is always wrapped around her voice and abilities (however lacking they are today), Kelly's is usually tied to American Idol, anthems, or her personality.
I've thought about public perception of her talent a lot, and it worries me that Kelly is nowhere close to the necessary public opinion to cement her legacy as the incredible vocalist she is. I mean honestly, there's a reason so many people are surprised when they see a live performance of hers and say they forgot how good she was. Thankfully with continued releases like Wrapped In Red, in which the quality of her voice on the record is impossible to ignore, she can bridge the gap to an extent. It's just that as far as her recorded material goes, the quality of her unaltered voice is harder to discern in today's pop landscape. I mean, the average listener is not going to think that Kelly's belted chorus on song x is that much better than Katy's belted(/loud) chorus on song y.
Honestly, I feel like a live and/or covers album from Kelly would do wonders for her. With covers, you instantly have a point of comparison. When you hear someone cover a song you hold in high regard, and he or she does it well, it's impossible not to respect him or her to some degree. That's why I feel like if her covers were put in the spotlight more (via an album), the general public would begin to realize how special she is compared to many of her contemporaries. Granted, it'd be tough to market, but I feel like the potential critical acclaim could accommodate for that. At the very least, I'd love to see her throw some more covers on her studio albums. Imagine the reaction if Kelly threw her cover of "Fix You" or "I Know You Won't" on a record...
ETA: It would also help if Kelly just showed off more on her records. The fact that within a few live performances of her material she can outdo her recorded versions doesn't help her cause. I respect her restraint, but I wish she'd take on the "look what I can do" mentality a bit more.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 16, 2014 15:23:00 GMT -5
Yeah, Kelly's primary public identifiers are her connection to Idol and her humble, down-to-earth personality. I'd say, today, public opinion on who has the best voice would be:
1. Adele 2. Christina Aguilera 3. Beyonce 4. Pink 5. Mariah Carey 6. Jennifer Hudson/Kelly Clarkson/Carrie Underwood 9. Ariana Grande/Lea Michelle
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 16, 2014 15:48:20 GMT -5
I think Kelly's true success will come when she leaves her popstar days behind her and releases contemporary music for adults. That's when people will take note of her true talent and she will stop being a guilty pleasure and be respected as one of the world's all-time greatest singers. Is she still seen as a guilty pleasure, though? I feel like most people already do recognize that she's extremely talented and do respect her as an artist, even if they don't love her music. As far back as 2005, I remember her being one of the very few pop acts to make the best-of-the-year lists put out by those snooty music Web sites and magazines that typically refute anything mainstream. I think it's somewhere in the middle maybe. I don't think she's a 'guilty' pleasure but I don't know about 'respect' either, at least on the major level that I think others are talking about. It's not that people don't know she can sing, it's just that they don't think about it much. It's almost taken for granted that she's going to give a great vocal. If you're trying to sing along with her song on the radio or at karaoke night you realize when you get to the bridge how difficult it is, but none of her big hits really come off as vocal showcases. This mainly just echoes what Max452 and dbhmr said above me, but The issue imo is her branding, or maybe more accurately the slight lack thereof. Kelly has had a few different teams (Simon Fuller/the Idol machine, then The Firm, and now Narvel) and none of them ever tried to build up her brand around her voice, which is sort of ironic considering the Idol affiliation...but Fuller and The Firm were basically trying to brand her as the girl-next-door-turned-pop-star; that she could sing was incidental to that. (Based on who Idol was gunning for in season one it was kind of apparent that they were much more focused on image than voice anyway). By the time Kelly got to Narvel she was kind of over the whole pop star thing, but she seemed keen to stick with the girl-next door aspect, while also making it known that she isn't a puppet. I always got the sense that she was more concerned about presenting herself as someone who doesn't take anyone else's bullshit than anything else. She's the quintessential Texan chick. And to her credit I think she's done a great job of that. But it's like even she herself takes her own voice for granted. Her voice is the main reason she ever got as far as she did but she doesn't ever really show it off nearly as much as she could. Combined with her approach to celebrity status being more lowkey than her pop counterparts I don't think it's that surprising that she's probably not ranked as highly in the general public's eye as she is in industry circles. At this point I'm not even sure a vocal-emphasizing ballad or covers album on its own would do the trick, b/c like Max pointed out there is not much to distinguish a recorded Kelly song these days from a recorded Katy song. She needs to do a lot of highly publicized performances to really nail the point. I would maybe disagree with Chris however on Kelly being ranked below P!nk, b/c P!nk is another one whose branding has never been centered around her vocals. In fact, even less so - P!nk's known as a 'performer'.
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Feb 16, 2014 16:06:47 GMT -5
Like it or not, I think the residual "Idol" cloud will always be there. It's faded over time (along with Idol's place in the Pop world) which I think plays a part with the young people/new fans who are still shocked every time she turns in an insane (but normal by her standards) performance on a big stage. You would think that people would just know that she's got huge talent by now, but for every Grammy's/Super Bowl performance it's "Damn I didn't know she could sing like that." all over Twitter. That's just her story now, somehow constantly an underdog/dark horse (which, I hate Katy Perry for destroying that idiom by writing a song that has nothing to do with what an actual dark horse is.)
Anyway, long-term, I see her as continuing to gain industry respect as she moves on from Pop over time. I think she'll do more collaborative projects with artists in her cohort. Imagine Kelly working with someone on an album like Robert Plant and Alison Krauss's (Grammy winning) Raising Sand. It would be outstanding.
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Max_X5
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Post by Max_X5 on Feb 16, 2014 16:14:04 GMT -5
Plus, as far as performance style goes, Kelly's physical (not vocal) restraint puts her back even more. Go watch a performance from Carrie, Christina, Mariah, etc. If you mute the sound, I guarantee you can still tell when the big notes are based off their movements. Kelly, on the other hand, doesn't really accentuate her vocal acrobatics with physical movements. Granted, since Duets that has changed a little (with those karate hand lifts), but she still doesn't make too big a show of what she's doing. As far as public perception goes, other artists have really taken better advantage of how persuasive stage presence can be in convincing viewers of their prowess.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Feb 16, 2014 18:22:30 GMT -5
The thing is that people haven't moved from Breakaway Kelly. Whenever they talk about her, they refer to Breakaway-Kelly and compare her constantly with that nearly anorexic, energetic, girl-next-door chic.
Random wish: I really really really want her to collaborate with Sarah McLachlan!
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mrossp24
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Post by mrossp24 on Feb 16, 2014 19:23:02 GMT -5
Random wish: I really really really want her to collaborate with Sarah McLachlan! If there's just one artist that she'd collaborate with for her next album, I want it to be Sam Smith. The dude is BEYOND talented and a song between him and Kelly would be amazing. Besides Sam Smith, I'd love collaborations with Bruno Mars and Miguel. I also think it'd be cool if she wrote and worked with Erik Hassle...his stuff is really, really good.
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Post by ificanthaveyou on Feb 16, 2014 22:37:33 GMT -5
I think it's high time Kelly has her Halo/Bleeding Love/No One/Beautiful vocal smash. She has the pipes for it, and I'd love something in the vein of Halo/No One lyrically now that she's madly in love.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Feb 17, 2014 16:42:26 GMT -5
I nearly LMAO'ed during my lecture today: Justin Guarini actually had a serious thing with Kelly Clarkson, who won the first "Idol" crown over him in 2002. It started on the set of "From Justin to Kelly," the quickie beach movie they did together after "Idol," and ended when her career really took off and his didn't. link
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getonthebus
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Post by getonthebus on Feb 17, 2014 17:28:58 GMT -5
Where does everyone rank Kelly's knees compared to other pop stars? How would you rank her knees each era?
Stronger (amazing knees) > Breakaway > Thankful > My December > AIEW (worst knees I've ever seen)
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 19:12:25 GMT -5
Where does everyone rank Kelly's knees compared to other pop stars? How would you rank her knees each era? Stronger (amazing knees) > Breakaway > Thankful > My December > AIEW (worst knees I've ever seen) I liked her MD knees a lot actually. We didn't get to see them much during that album's run, but they seemed very sturdy and supportive. I think the Wrapped in Red knees take this hands down, though. Best knees in the business that era, for sure!
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bb
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Post by bb on Feb 17, 2014 22:17:00 GMT -5
LOL this Justin/Kelly thing is front page on Yahoo.
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Post by Almost Honest on Feb 17, 2014 22:41:36 GMT -5
Where does everyone rank Kelly's knees compared to other pop stars? How would you rank her knees each era? Stronger (amazing knees) > Breakaway > Thankful > My December > AIEW (worst knees I've ever seen) Kelly Clarkson's knees > then any other male artist's who would never get his compared by eras.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 23:17:55 GMT -5
LOL this Justin/Kelly thing is front page on Yahoo. yeah so when I saw AllIEverWanted's post I assumed it was snark or something and didn't bother clicking the link. Oops!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 17, 2014 23:28:13 GMT -5
Where does everyone rank Kelly's knees compared to other pop stars? How would you rank her knees each era? Stronger (amazing knees) > Breakaway > Thankful > My December > AIEW (worst knees I've ever seen) I think her husband would argue her knees look best planted on the ground between his legs. I first noticed her knees on idol when she was standing besides her childhood and musical idol, Mariah Carey. Her knees were just gorgeous as they shook with the omnipresence figure beside her.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Feb 18, 2014 11:03:48 GMT -5
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on Feb 19, 2014 11:03:44 GMT -5
FWIW I would LOVE a full blown, wedding classic, love song from Kelly released as a single from the next album (AMLT is nice but we need something newer/actually explicitly about love). Thematically, she's really wedding kryptonite apart from MLWSWY and AMLT. Which I'm usually OK with, but ya know.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 19, 2014 11:46:02 GMT -5
I think it's high time Kelly has her Halo/Bleeding Love/No One/Beautiful vocal smash. She has the pipes for it, and I'd love something in the vein of Halo/No One lyrically now that she's madly in love. If Already Gone wasn't enough in the vein of Halo for you, I don't know what to say. Well, lol, yeah, but I think the OP meant something more grandiose vocally (Already Gone is one of her more restrained performances). I still think Already Gone is the better song between the two, but there is definitely a more triumphant and larger-than-life quality about Halo due to the build-up and subject matter (a declaration of love will always have a grander, more widely celebrated resonance than a mature, adult response to the demise of a relationship between two good people that didn't work out). If we're talking types of ballads for her to do, I'd prefer something more open, earthy, and melody-driven like "Big Girls Don't Cry" or fully stripped like "Someone Like You." The Halo/Bleeding Love/Beautiful sound is way over.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Feb 19, 2014 15:35:42 GMT -5
Well, I want some rock Kelly! Aside from Let Me Down (which is not pure rock, but whatevs) and Can We Go Back there was no real rock Kelly, although she's very passionate in that gerne. More PopRock à la BTHE, DLMSY would be nice too!
Not sure if I'd like a diva-ballad, though... I definitely prefer Addicted-kinda-ballads. Rock / Power Ballads would be great I absolutely love the Addicted Tour version of "Beautiful Disaster" - I haven't heard that depth of Kelly in a while... just in covers
I swear, it's like there were no good cameras during her entire Breakaway era -_-
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Feb 19, 2014 17:35:55 GMT -5
I just couldn't disagree more, AllIEverWanted. She has served up pop/rock for four straight albums, though finally teetering into a few other influences on the last two; but as a whole, I'm sure their take-away with the general public is "more of the same." She's reclaimed some fame, she got another Grammy, she did her Greatest Hits. Spread those wings, girl. Go 90s, go rhythmic, go soul, go blues, go country, go acoustic...just go somewhere else. Staying put, at this rate, would be a letdown.
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Gold Soundz
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Post by Gold Soundz on Feb 19, 2014 18:25:54 GMT -5
A Pink career would be ideal? LOL. I think Pink is immensely talented, and ranks just below Kelly in terms of current pop female vocalists. I even liked I'm Not Dead (a lot). That being said, Pink's last two albums have been horrifically uninspired and predictable because she's pandering to what radio wants. When she doesn't take risks, she just winds up with a bunch of mid-hits people forget about and low album sales (yeah, I know, "Just Give Me A Reason" -- but how unoriginal and ultimately forgettable).
I would love it if Kelly recorded a modern rhythmic pop/soul album. I wouldn't want her to go the jukebox route like Duffy, Amy Winehouse, (and to some extent, Adele and Pink) because it's played out. Songs in the vein of "Doo Wop (That Thing)" and "Beautiful" would be amazing from her, though. There was definitely a hint of Stax soul on her GH country single with Vince Gill.
Also, while she needs to stay away from the Swedes and Doctor, I kind of hope she does one super-melodic white girl trap anthem.
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Feb 19, 2014 18:34:15 GMT -5
Her voice is absolutely incredible, but everything since My December is stale and generic. I still get chills when I listen to Irvine, and I miss that. She has the more than enough talent, she just doesn't do the right songs ( or hasn't for me to maintain big "fan" status). I hope this album will be different, but since AIEW it's been fairly un-enchanting for me.
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StrongBreakaway
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Post by StrongBreakaway on Feb 19, 2014 19:41:04 GMT -5
I don't necessarily like disagreement, but it keeps a convo going! I just couldn't disagree more, AllIEverWanted. She has served up pop/rock for four straight albums, though finally teetering into a few other influences on the last two; but as a whole, I'm sure their take-away with the general public is "more of the same." She's reclaimed some fame, she got another Grammy, she did her Greatest Hits. Spread those wings, girl. Go 90s, go rhythmic, go soul, go blues, go country, go acoustic...just go somewhere else. Staying put, at this rate, would be a letdown. She did PopRock mainly on TWO albums - not more, not less - B & AIEW There is a difference between MORE and JUST. Instead of album-fillers, I'd like to hear something rock and/or poprock. Let Me Down was an upgrade on BTHE - now imagine an upgrade on LMD - I'd be interested in that But, of course, I'm also all for her evolving and trying out new things.. otherwise she wouldn't be my fave artist if she stayed the same And since u mentioned Someone Like u: It's sad that Adele can roll with a simple song like that one and that Kelly would probably flop with Don't Ever Give Up On Me. RCA definitely HAS TO start changing her image little by little A Pink career would be ideal? LOL. I think Pink is immensely talented, and ranks just below Kelly in terms of current pop female vocalists. I even liked I'm Not Dead (a lot). That being said, Pink's last two albums have been horrifically uninspired and predictable because she's pandering to what radio wants. When she doesn't take risks, she just winds up with a bunch of mid-hits people forget about and low album sales (yeah, I know, "Just Give Me A Reason" -- but how unoriginal and ultimately forgettable). I would love it if Kelly recorded a modern rhythmic pop/soul album. I wouldn't want her to go the jukebox route like Duffy, Amy Winehouse, (and to some extent, Adele and Pink) because it's played out. Songs in the vein of "Doo Wop (That Thing)" and "Beautiful" would be amazing from her, though. There was definitely a hint of Stax soul on her GH country single with Vince Gill. Also, while she needs to stay away from the Swedes and Doctor, I kind of hope she does one super-melodic white girl trap anthem. So you like quoting me WITHOUT THE RIGHT CONTEXT ? YES I DO WANT HER TO HAVE A P!NK CAREER IN THE SENSE THAT SHE HAS ENOUGH TIME FOR HER FAMILY AND HER MUSIC. :) Her voice is absolutely incredible, but everything since My December is stale and generic. I still get chills when I listen to Irvine, and I miss that. She has the more than enough talent, she just doesn't do the right songs ( or hasn't for me to maintain big "fan" status). I hope this album will be different, but since AIEW it's been fairly un-enchanting for me. I honestly thought that Stronger was innovative while AIEW was an upgraded version of Breakaway - especially vocal-wise
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Snowbeast
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Post by Snowbeast on Feb 19, 2014 20:03:29 GMT -5
Her voice is absolutely incredible, but everything since My December is stale and generic. I still get chills when I listen to Irvine, and I miss that. She has the more than enough talent, she just doesn't do the right songs ( or hasn't for me to maintain big "fan" status). I hope this album will be different, but since AIEW it's been fairly un-enchanting for me. I honestly thought that Stronger was inovative while AIEW was an upgraded version of Breakaway - especially vocal-wise Innovative is really not that vocabulary I would use to describe that project, but music is subjective. MKIA was a close-copy of Just The Way You Are & Stronger was boring for me. I did like Hello, Honestly, Dark Side and a couple others, but AIEW & Stronger felt more like mixtapes instead of cohesive albums. I really don't hear soul from the songs on those albums either, so maybe that's been my main issue. Breakaway>AIEW anyday. I agree that the latter attempted to be a new version of Breakaway, but I don't think it surpassed it. There's no Because Of You, Gone, Since U Been Gone & Behind These Hazel Eyes on that album. I absolutely adored My December, and her vocal delivery on Maybe, How I Feel, Irvine...(almost the entire album actually) conveyed that she believed in what she was singing about. Kelly has said "I'm not one of those people who thinks you have to write everything. (I'll sing it) as long as I can relate to it". For me though, there's a clear difference in delivery on songs that she's been responsible for and one's she has just sang on.
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on Feb 19, 2014 21:30:45 GMT -5
I honestly thought that Stronger was inovative while AIEW was an upgraded version of Breakaway - especially vocal-wise Breakaway>AIEW anyday. I agree that the latter attempted to be a new version of Breakaway, but I don't think it surpassed it. There's no Cry, Long Shot, My Life Would Suck Without You & Don't Let Me Stop You on that album. Wait
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Feb 19, 2014 23:24:14 GMT -5
Breakaway>AIEW anyday. I agree that the latter attempted to be a new version of Breakaway, but I don't think it surpassed it. There's no Cry, Long Shot, My Life Would Suck Without You & Don't Let Me Stop You on that album. Wait I don't like what you're implying and don't agree even a little. Cry is gross.
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