Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 10, 2014 18:20:32 GMT -5
This is an idea that I've been throwing around in my head for awhile now. The folk/indie genre of music is one that has been on the upswing for a while now and it seems as though it's practically mainstream at this point. It's my favorite kind of music and it's the genre I gravitate towards the most. I was wondering a) what the staff thought about this and b) if there are other fans of this genre that would like to be able to have a place to discuss it.
Let me know your thoughts.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 18:22:40 GMT -5
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 10, 2014 18:24:39 GMT -5
Uh, yeah I'm aware of that but the type of folk/indie music I'm referring to doesn't get played on mainstream radio.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 18:26:12 GMT -5
Uh, yeah I'm aware of that but the type of folk/indie music I'm referring to doesn't get played on mainstream radio. Uh, then see the second thread. ;)
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 10, 2014 18:27:28 GMT -5
Uh, yeah I'm aware of that but the type of folk/indie music I'm referring to doesn't get played on mainstream radio. Uh, then see the second thread. ;) Matt and I already discussed that. This was different and that's something that never got off of the ground too. I'm trying to be productive. Don't really see the need to post links to a general part of the board as if I don't know what it is, Jazzy. Anyway, while this music isn't typically played on mainstream radio, it's usually played on college radio. Have we ever discussed incorporating that into discussion here at Pulse?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 18:30:56 GMT -5
Uh, then see the second thread. ;) Matt and I already discussed that. This was different and that's something that never got off of the ground too. I'm trying to be productive. Don't really see the need to post links to a general part of the board as if I don't know what it is, Jazzy. Anyway, while this music isn't typically played on mainstream radio, it's usually played on college radio. Have we ever discussed incorporating that into discussion here at Pulse? Triple A isn't a mainstream radio format though (many are college radio stations), and that's where folk/indie singles usually get posted. So if there were to be a place to discuss folk or indie singles/non-singles/albums, my question is what's the difference between an indie section and that artist showcase/discovery section? I'm not even against the idea; I'm just curious about how this is different.
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 10, 2014 18:37:07 GMT -5
Matt and I already discussed that. This was different and that's something that never got off of the ground too. I'm trying to be productive. Don't really see the need to post links to a general part of the board as if I don't know what it is, Jazzy. Anyway, while this music isn't typically played on mainstream radio, it's usually played on college radio. Have we ever discussed incorporating that into discussion here at Pulse? Triple A isn't a mainstream radio format though (many are college radio stations), and that's where folk/indie singles usually get posted. So if there were to be a place to discuss folk or indie singles/non-singles/albums, my question is what's the difference between an indie section and that artist showcase/discovery section? I'm not even against the idea; I'm just curious about how this is different. TouchΓ© to many of the AAA radio stations being college radio stations, but I suppose the difference is that it would be confined to the folk/indie genre. Not necessarily independent pop artists. There are just a ton of artists without radio support that aren't necessarily new/upcoming artists. It wouldn't make sense to put many of them under "artist showcase". I feel like this makes it strictly indie in a folk sense, not an "any genre on an independent label" sense. There are so many songs, for example, that I hear on television shows that are folk songs that are brilliant songs and they are singles being promoted, they're just not being promoted via mainstream radio. The artists tour instead because touring is a better way for those artists to both make income and to establish themselves in the realm of folk music. This is a radio forum, yes, but the folk genre of music is becoming very big despite mainstream radio support. Also, I would love more than anything to revive Matt's idea because I think it's a pretty fantastic one.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 18:48:15 GMT -5
I know this isn't the Discovery/Artist Showcase thread, but I can sum up my feelings on that and this idea in the same post. While I don't listen to a lot of folk music, I do listen to a lot of indie R&B and some indie pop. If I come across an independent R&B artist that I like or a single by that artist that I like, I'll generally post it in the Urban forum or the general artist forums. I did that even when we had that Artist Showcase forum. The reason was that I don't even think most people ventured into the Artist Showcase forum. I felt like there was a better chance at getting someone who might like that song or that artist to check it out if it were in a forum alongside a BeyoncΓ© thread in a forum people where actually looking at. The downside to that is that those threads get pushed off the first page much more easily if they're in a busier forum, but at least I felt like people were actually looking at it. So for folk acts, to use your example, my personal preference would be to put it in the Alternative/Triple A forum or to put the album thread in the Artists forum, because I feel like people will be more likely to open it (especially if there are people who know they have tastes similar to yours). I mean, it's possible that we have a greater percentage of people here now who would regularly check out a forum for acts who don't fit into the forums dedicated to mainstream music, but then again maybe not. So again, I'm not really against the idea of a forum or forums for less popular artists/genres, but I personally would probably feel less inclined to post threads there unless I felt like that forum was actually generating traffic and people were going to bother to read it.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 18:55:35 GMT -5
I'm not opposed to this idea at all. It is a growing genre, even if more in an "underground" sense, and there's not currently a good place on the board to discuss it. And this is just my opinion but I personally don't care for the lumping in of folk with alternative and rock b/c, while there can be overlap, all three of these categories are distinct from one another.
If the issue is a concern of the board becoming 'cluttered' by yet another subforum that might have low activity, well, that's why we create subforums, to keep things neat and tidy. I don't think the alt/rock crowd would welcome a sudden influx of indie-folk threads taking over their space and the people who do start those threads would not appreciate the fact that their threads would quickly become buried by a bunch of other faster moving topics. Low activity is not an excuse unless you plan on not only not adding a folk/indie area but also deleting gospel, latin, dance, and nostalgia, and maybe more.
"Artist Showcase" wasn't conducive to the type of crowds we have at Pulse, that area needed a new name and total rebranding to be of more use.
I never really thought of Pulse as a 'radio' forum and I think labeling it as such sets it up for an unnecessarily limiting expectation of what the board 'should' be. Pulse is a music forum. When you think of it like that, why shouldn't there be a folk/indie section? For goodness sake, we have a 'world hits' forum. We can talk about the world but not about a music trend that is happening in our own backyard?
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 19:04:24 GMT -5
I know this isn't the Discovery/Artist Showcase thread, but I can sum up my feelings on that and this idea in the same post. While I don't listen to a lot of folk music, I do listen to a lot of indie R&B and some indie pop. If I come across an independent R&B artist that I like or a single by that artist that I like, I'll generally post it in the Urban forum or the general artist forums. I did that even when we had that Artist Showcase forum. The reason was that I don't even think most people ventured into the Artist Showcase forum. I felt like there was a better chance at getting someone who might like that song or that artist to check it out if it were in a forum alongside a BeyoncΓ© thread in a forum people were actually looking at. The downside to that is that those threads get pushed off the first page much more easily if they're in a busier forum, but at least I felt like people were actually looking at it. So for folk acts, to use your example, my personal preference would be to put it in the Alternative/Triple A forum or to put the album thread in the Artists forum, because I feel like people will be more likely to open it (especially if there are people who know they have tastes similar to yours). I mean, it's possible that we have a greater percentage of people here now who would regularly check out a forum for acts who don't fit into the forums dedicated to mainstream music, but then again maybe not. So again, I'm not really against the idea of a forum or forums for less popular artists/genres, but I personally would probably feel less inclined to post threads there unless I felt like that forum was actually generating traffic and people were going to bother to read it. I think urban music fans here might be more amenable to this approach than others, though. Maybe that's just me, but it seems that the temperature in the room is just...different among the various genre subforums here. And again, that goes back to what I said about how this shouldn't be seen as a radio forum. The urban forum for example is a lot more lax about when you can start a thread for a new song. You can't get away with that in pop however, and I was also under the impression that rock/alternative was not keen on starting threads for songs that may or may not be active on radio or even a formal single at all. For each subforum it is more or less a matter of whether it's a genre subforum or a radio-stats subforum focused on a specific genre. Urban is the one area that leans more toward it being a genre subforum. The others don't skew that way, so I can see why Hefty would make this suggestion. Part of the reason Artist Showcase didn't work, I think, was b/c it was basically the waiting room for a bunch of pop acts who hadn't yet been signed or had a radio hit (thus not warranting a CHR thread). Reviving it probably won't change people's perception of what it is or should be so I don't know if it's worth trying to bring it back or retool it for this.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 19:04:53 GMT -5
And this is just my opinion but I personally don't care for the lumping in of folk with alternative and rock b/c, while there can be overlap, all three of these categories are distinct from one another. I totally agree with this, and I wasn't a fan of it in the first place. While there is some overlap, a lot of the music that charts on Triple A is completely different from the type of music that gets played on Alternative or Active Rock stations. I agree with both of these too. We discussed making the current radio format forums into genre forums instead, and I support that completely. Radio formats are always evolving in a way that makes some of these format groupings not make much sense over time. Urban and Rhythmic used to practically be the same radio format several years ago. That's why people started complaining when, what had been an R&B/Hip-Hop forum for several years, started having Britney, Ke$ha, and Lady Gaga threads in it. So I guess I would be more supportive of a separate folk-rock section if we actually did divide the forums by genre instead of by radio format. The only issue I see there is what people have been complaining about with the 2012 Billboard chart policy changes. How do we decide what genre a song is, especially because a lot of songs can't really be put into one box. So does BeyoncΓ©'s single get put in the Pop forum or the R&B/Hip-Hop forum, or would it be okay to have one in both?
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 10, 2014 19:37:31 GMT -5
I'd personally be all about this myself as it's one of my favourite kinds of music too. The only thing that works against it in my mind is that all of the music genre forums are radio formats and this would be strictly a genre forum - which isn't really a problem except in my OCD world where I need organization.
Back when I was an admin, for a while I was really interested in having the boards undergo an overhaul where instead of having radio formats, the forums would be based on song genre instead, since there tends to be so much overlap of chart discussion anyway - that way crossover hits would have just one topic. But it was either Adam or Ethan who convinced me that it would cause more trouble than it would be worth since a lot of songs tend to blur the line of what genre they fit into anyway
This was primarily my reason for suggesting combining Hot AC with Alternative a year or so ago because while Hot AC was getting poppier, Triple A wasn't and it made more sense to me to have that linked with the rock forums rather than a derivative of the pop forums. So that idea went through and that's what we have today.
If there's enough interest in a folkier section, or subsection, somewhere on the board, I'd be all for it!
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 19:46:22 GMT -5
Back when I was an admin, for a while I was really interested in having the boards undergo an overhaul where instead of having radio formats, the forums would be based on song genre instead, since there tends to be so much overlap of chart discussion anyway - that way crossover hits would have just one topic. But it was either Adam or Ethan who convinced me that it would cause more trouble than it would be worth since a lot of songs tend to blur the line of what genre they fit into anyway Yeah. The only way I can see to deal with that is that is allowing for there to be multiple threads for the same song in separate forums. It's not so much for crossover songs (The Neighbourhood is a rock band and "Sweater Weather" is a rock song, despite crossing over to CHR/Pop). The potential for grey area is with the BeyoncΓ©'s who are R&B artists who sometimes release Pop songs that get play on Urban stations, or acts like Lorde (is she pop or is she rock? She's got an Urban hit right now, but I don't think anyone really categorizes her as Urban). I see it more as something that would occasionally have instances where people can't really decide, but then I don't think it's a problem to have multiple threads (unless for example, someone creates a thread for Lorde in the R&B/Hip-Hop forum-- should it stay?).
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 10, 2014 19:53:03 GMT -5
Yeah, would Lorde go in Pop or whatever soft pop is or Rock? And then Adele songs. They aren't quite pop either.
But I guess threads could be moved accordingly too, and/or combined.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 20:02:03 GMT -5
Yeah, would Lorde go in Pop or whatever soft pop is or Rock? And then Adele songs. They aren't quite pop either. But I guess threads could be moved accordingly too, and/or combined. I feel like everyone would end up referring to the formats to make many of those determinations anyway, which wouldn't necessarily be a problem, but then the question is why bother changing anything?-- unless the rules would be changed so that songs don't actually have to go for radio adds to have a thread in the format forums as long as the song is being promoted as a single in some capacity. Then to go back to the Folk forum idea (although this is from the perspective of keeping the current radio format forum titles), I'm not against splitting up the forums into even more forums either, to separate formats like Alternative and Triple A or Urban and Rhythmic (which, in many cases, are not similar at all- and have had some genre purists complaining), but that's what we used to have and people argued for consolidation since some of the forums for smaller formats were dead. There used to be a Triple A/Americana forum for folk music (and trust me, no one was policing that forum looking for adds dates-- so you could have posted whatever folk song you wanted), but it was dead so it was consolidated with Hot AC (and then with Alternative). So creating a separate forum for Triple A/College Radio/Folk/whatever and then having lax rules on that forum and allowing for album threads (like the Country forum, I think) could work. I realize that seems not that much different from making a separate Folk music forum, but I feel like there's just too much overlap with Triple A for them to be separate forums.
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 21:19:30 GMT -5
I suppose it depends on how OCD you are about it. I can see the reasoning behind wanting uniformity, but given the difficulties you guys pointed out in with categorizing certain artists, I can also see the reasoning for leaving the forums we have now as they are and letting this theoretical new folk subforum be different. A complete overhaul would be difficult to pull off. I personally would vouch for the latter - I think during the Summit (lolololololol) we talked a little bit about how every genre kind of had its own thing going on. We already aren't totally uniform anyway so it shouldn't be too much of a problem.
Worst case scenario, it fails, we delete it, and forget we ever tried. *shrug*
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 10, 2014 21:40:06 GMT -5
So it's settled? Let's bring it to the mods.
Plus I need to discover some new folky music until some of my folk staples put out new albums whenever that happens to be. I feel out of touch with this genre of music for the last few years and am yearning to discover a new favourite I can stan for and call my own.
|
|
Kurt
Administrator
#1: Jacob Collier f/John Legend & Tori Kelly β "Bridge Over Troubled Water"
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 22,618
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
Staff
|
Post by Kurt on Jan 10, 2014 22:15:12 GMT -5
I may or may not have been confused reading this thread, so a summation of the proposal may or may not be extremely helpful, haha. Either way, I'll all for a solution that allows me to yammer about non-radio (so far) acts like The Preatures and Max Marshall. (p.s. I will say that my previous forum attempt to organize by genre turned out to be mostly awful.)
|
|
Deleted
Joined: January 1970
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jan 10, 2014 23:07:20 GMT -5
I read so little of this thread beyond the OP it's ridiculous Ok went back and did because I realized that's pretty disingenuous of me, but from what I've understood by talking to Hefty about it and what's been discussed here, I like the idea and what I believe they're proposing, and I support it. I also agree with Cynthia that this is not a radio forum anymore. R&R was over a decade ago, and we are Pulse MUSIC Forum. Our niche as a board can be music, but to still be restricting it to radio seems pretty disingenuous. Also can we please go back to the point about getting my idea into the works too please? Just, you know, rebranded and adjusted slightly so that it doesn't turn into a shithole like Artist Showcase: where unsigned artists go to die. I may or may not have been confused reading this thread, so a summation of the proposal may or may not be extremely helpful, haha. Either way, I'll all for a solution that allows me to yammer about non-radio (so far) acts like The Preatures and Max Marshall. (p.s. I will say that my previous forum attempt to organize by genre turned out to be mostly awful.) The proposal is for a genre-based forum for indie/folk acts that would not typically fall under an alloted radio section, usually for songs receiving some attention on local radio or internet acclaim of some sort. I think?
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 10, 2014 23:09:19 GMT -5
I may or may not have been confused reading this thread, so a summation of the proposal may or may not be extremely helpful, haha. Either way, I'll all for a solution that allows me to yammer about non-radio (so far) acts like The Preatures and Max Marshall. (p.s. I will say that my previous forum attempt to organize by genre turned out to be mostly awful.) My proposal is to have a section of the board specifically centered around folk/indie rock music. Many bands and artists in the genre have singles and EPs that are being promoted, but they don't necessarily have the backing of mainstream radio. They, instead, tour and promote their music through live shows. They make videos and release singles but there's no appropriate forum to post them in. They don't get radio play, so you can't post it in the AAA/Rock section of the board. They're usually pretty established in the folk/indie realm so the since eradicated "artist showcase" wouldn't have been appropriate. They could be placed in the General Artists section but they would get lost in the shuffle. It's just an idea, but if there are enough fans of this genre on the board this might be a really good idea.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 10, 2014 23:32:28 GMT -5
I'm also thinking of artists who do release one single to AAA but then nothing else but will have albums that are too good to ignore, consistently. Brandi Carlile, Lori McKenna, Kathleen Edwards, Patty Griffin, whoever else comes to my mind in the next while...
I picture this to be more of an artist/album discussion forum rather than singles or individual songs.
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 27, 2014 21:02:49 GMT -5
Yes? No?
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 27, 2014 22:06:08 GMT -5
I would love for it to happen but it's unfortunately out of my hands and there may not be enough interest/support to open one. :(
|
|
Mega248
Diamond Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 12,333
|
Post by Mega248 on Jan 28, 2014 21:11:50 GMT -5
I don't see any reason not to try it. I listen to a decent amount of Indie music, so I'll do my part to not make it fail. What shall I call it? Folk/Indie or Indie/Folk? (Yeah, it matters because the word that comes first will determine its alphabetical location on the board's main page, making it the dominant word. )
|
|
|
Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jan 28, 2014 22:17:26 GMT -5
I'd say Folk/Indie. But what is "indie"? Will there be much crossover to what the Alternative forum provides?
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 28, 2014 23:16:57 GMT -5
I would say music from independent labels that is being promoted as a "single" via iTunes and radio but not being released or played on the radio. I am also assuming that most of the music posted wouldn't necessarily crossover, but if it should we could always move/combine the thread to Alt/Pop/etc,
I would also say Folk/Indie.
|
|
Kurt
Administrator
#1: Jacob Collier f/John Legend & Tori Kelly β "Bridge Over Troubled Water"
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 22,618
My Charts
Pronouns: he/him
Staff
|
Post by Kurt on Jan 29, 2014 0:47:57 GMT -5
I'd say Folk/Indie too, but can't you just drag and drop the forum into the right spot in the admin panel, Mega248? lol
|
|
Mega248
Diamond Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 12,333
|
Post by Mega248 on Jan 29, 2014 1:04:22 GMT -5
Well we can, yeah, but if it goes under the Radio Format and Chart Forums category, I just assumed we'd put it in its proper alphabetical location. That doesn't have to be the case though, and now that I've actually bothered to look at the main page, it'd be in the same location whether it started with an F or an I. So with that, I'm going to stop OCDing and just make the damn forum. :)
|
|
Mega248
Diamond Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 12,333
|
Post by Mega248 on Jan 29, 2014 1:11:14 GMT -5
Done. I feel like a location where it's more prominent would work better though so more people see it. Ideas?
|
|
Hefty Hanna
Diamond Member
a prettier jesus
Joined: August 2007
Posts: 20,351
|
Post by Hefty Hanna on Jan 29, 2014 1:11:52 GMT -5
Fantastic! Hopefully this works out the way that I hope it does. I think it's a good idea.
|
|