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Post by sundaymorningguy on Apr 20, 2015 8:08:39 GMT -5
Daniel they didn't peak as they were never official singles. She only had two official singles Honey and My All.
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Daniel Collins
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Post by Daniel Collins on Apr 20, 2015 8:16:28 GMT -5
Daniel they didn't peak as they were never official singles. She only had two official singles Honey and My All. Ah. Yes. Of course. I know that, what about on Hot 100 Airplay? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 8:22:18 GMT -5
Daniel they didn't peak as they were never official singles. She only had two official singles Honey and My All. Ah. Yes. Of course. I know that, what about on Hot 100 Airplay? Butterfly - #16 The Roof - didn't chart? (Wiki page lists no peak for any US charts, which seems unusual, even though I do recall it being an undeserved flop) I'll dig a little more for this one. Breakdown - 53* - At this point Mariah was having a major tussle with Columbia over what singles to release, as they already weren't happy with how this album leaned in a much more hip-hop/urban direction than previous ones, so they held back on Breakdown for quite a while. When they finally did release it, it was as a double-A side with My All. They did release a remix to urban and the song ended up peaking at #13 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay. I need to find her '97 Vibe interview again, I remember her complaining majorly about the treatment Breakdown got. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 8:25:17 GMT -5
Where did the radio singles between "Honey" and "My All" peaked? Butterfly, #16 Hot 100 airplay Breakdown, #53 Hot 100 airplay |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2015 8:44:27 GMT -5
Hot 100 Airplay Peaks of the #1's: Vision of Love - #1 Love Takes Time - #1 Someday - #1 I Don't Wanna Cry - #4 Emotions - #1 I'll Be There - #1 Dreamlover - #1 Hero - #1 Fantasy - #1 One sweet Day - #1 Always Be My Baby - #2 Honey - #11 My All - #15 Heartbreaker - #8 Thank God I Found You - #15 We Belong Together - #1 Don't Forget About Us - #1 Touch My Body - #2 Didn't Dreamlover, Always Be My Baby, and We Belong Together all top the year-end Hot 100 Airplay charts? |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 20, 2015 9:00:31 GMT -5
My question is why is Mariah everywhere but in Vegas? Isn't that where she should be, like weeks ago? I think she's back in Vegas today. |
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2015 9:00:55 GMT -5
Breakdown - 53* - At this point Mariah was having a major tussle with Columbia over what singles to release, as they already weren't happy with how this album leaned in a much more hip-hop/urban direction than previous ones, so they held back on Breakdown for quite a while. When they finally did release it, it was as a double-A side with My All. They did release a remix to urban and the song ended up peaking at #13 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay. I need to find her '97 Vibe interview again, I remember her complaining majorly about the treatment Breakdown got. "The Roof" didn't have any real promotion apart from the video, did it? I don't even know if it was pushed to radio. "Breakdown" had a somewhat low (though not bad) peak on R&B Airplay, but I remember it charting for over 30 weeks so it had longevity. It really is a shame because that track was so genius and inventive. Mariah was using the more rhythmic/urban style of singing before Beyonce. What's funny about Mariah and her complaints about the treatment of "Breakdown," though, is that I distinctly remember her going on Rosie O'Donnell's show and campaigning for "My All" as a single. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 10:44:02 GMT -5
I FOUND IT! #triumphant God bless Google Books. I had forgotten how amazing this entire interview was. This and the "Breakdown" video, that is how I fell in love with her. The interview was actually from 1998, not 1997. I guess I was associating it with Butterfly's album release, but it came right before the #1s album. Funny, even the interviewer didn't realize she only had two singles from that Butterfly. And if you talk to many r&b fans now, they don't realize that "Breakdown" was technically not a single. My favorite part, out of many: Interviewer: But I mean, if we were talking about the pop princesses of the late 80s and early 90s...Mariah: I didn't come out until the '90s [laughter]. And I hope to be around past the '90s. I don't want to just be categorized as "of this era." My goal is to have a career that stands. Otherwise, what's the point?
Breakdown - 53* - At this point Mariah was having a major tussle with Columbia over what singles to release, as they already weren't happy with how this album leaned in a much more hip-hop/urban direction than previous ones, so they held back on Breakdown for quite a while. When they finally did release it, it was as a double-A side with My All. They did release a remix to urban and the song ended up peaking at #13 on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay. I need to find her '97 Vibe interview again, I remember her complaining majorly about the treatment Breakdown got. "The Roof" didn't have any real promotion apart from the video, did it? I don't even know if it was pushed to radio. "Breakdown" had a somewhat low (though not bad) peak on R&B Airplay, but I remember it charting for over 30 weeks so it had longevity. It really is a shame because that track was so genius and inventive. Mariah was using the more rhythmic/urban style of singing before Beyonce. What's funny about Mariah and her complaints about the treatment of "Breakdown," though, is that I distinctly remember her going on Rosie O'Donnell's show and campaigning for "My All" as a single.
I figure it was Columbia's idea of a compromise. She wanted both My All and Breakdown, she got My All with Breakdown treated as an add-on. And yeah, I don't recall "The Roof" getting any promo aside from the video. I'm just surprised it didn't even show up in the top 100 of airplay, I would have thought Mariah's name would get her at least that much back then. Her relationship with Tommy was over by that point, but I don't think they were actively blackballing any of her stuff, they were just majorly disagreeing on what should be sent out and only giving a push to two chosen songs.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2015 10:54:18 GMT -5
I FOUND IT! #triumphant God bless Google Books. I had forgotten how amazing this entire interview was. This and the "Breakdown" video, that is how I fell in love with her. The interview was actually from 1998, not 1997. I guess I was associating it with Butterfly's album release, but it came right before the #1s album. Funny, even the interviewer didn't realize she only had two singles from that Butterfly. And if you talk to many r&b fans now, they don't realize that "Breakdown" was technically not a single. Eh. That's like saying "Don't Speak" wasn't a single because it wasn't commercially released. Come on, now. Well, "Breakdown" is a little different in that it was an "R&B single" and not a full-fledged single, but the point is that it had a video and was sent to radio. That's a single in that it was an individual track released as a way to promote its parent album. While I think Mariah has a point in one sense, I think she was overly dramatic about it all. While "Underneath the Stars" certainly didn't get a full-blown treatment as a single, it did have a remix and got sent to radio. It didn't do well. I don't know all of the reasons for it not doing well, but it did get some type of exposure. She acts like Butterfly only had 2 singles, but 6 songs - Honey, Butterfly, My All, Breakdown, The Roof, and Whenever You Call - got videos that were played on MTV, VH1, and/or BET. Five of those songs had remixes (all 6, really, if you include the duet version of "WYC," but that was more so for #1s). At least four of those tracks were sent to radio. She performed a 7th track - "Close My Eyes" on Rosie O'Donnell's show. To hear Mariah tell it, people barely knew she had an album out. I get that she may have wanted some songs to get pushed even harder, but my point is that I think she exaggerates things. You also have to remember that Mariah alienated a lot of her audience at that time. Her music got more urban, but more than that I think the change in her image put some people off. Neither "Butterfly" or "My All" went top 10 at AC radio, which shows the decline in her popularity with that audience. Did any of her singles from Butterfly go top 10 at Top 40 radio? I think "Honey" may have peaked at #11, but I'm not sure. Regardless, my point is that radio wasn't feeling her the way it had been from 1990-1996, so to expect Sony to push something like "Breakdown" as a full single was probably asking too much. I think the double-single with "My All" worked great, actually. |
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Post by cause_for_celebration on Apr 20, 2015 11:03:24 GMT -5
Wow that's crazy to me, that "Honey" wasn't a top 10 (let alone #1) pop hit.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on Apr 20, 2015 11:06:33 GMT -5
I remember people were in shocked by her look and sound when Butterfly came out. I think that affected a lot the performance of that era. It started the shift in her career, but I'm so glad she did. That album is a true classic.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 11:10:01 GMT -5
Wow that's crazy to me, that "Honey" wasn't a top 10 (let alone #1) pop hit. it peaked at #10 on pop and 11 on the hot 100 airplay. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 11:47:43 GMT -5
I FOUND IT! #triumphant God bless Google Books. I had forgotten how amazing this entire interview was. This and the "Breakdown" video, that is how I fell in love with her. The interview was actually from 1998, not 1997. I guess I was associating it with Butterfly's album release, but it came right before the #1s album. Funny, even the interviewer didn't realize she only had two singles from that Butterfly. And if you talk to many r&b fans now, they don't realize that "Breakdown" was technically not a single. Eh. That's like saying "Don't Speak" wasn't a single because it wasn't commercially released. Come on, now. Well, "Breakdown" is a little different in that it was an "R&B single" and not a full-fledged single, but the point is that it had a video and was sent to radio. That's a single in that it was an individual track released as a way to promote its parent album. While I think Mariah has a point in one sense, I think she was overly dramatic about it all. While "Underneath the Stars" certainly didn't get a full-blown treatment as a single, it did have a remix and got sent to radio. It didn't do well. I don't know all of the reasons for it not doing well, but it did get some type of exposure. She acts like Butterfly only had 2 singles, but 6 songs - Honey, Butterfly, My All, Breakdown, The Roof, and Whenever You Call - got videos that were played on MTV, VH1, and/or BET. Five of those songs had remixes (all 6, really, if you include the duet version of "WYC," but that was more so for #1s). At least four of those tracks were sent to radio. She performed a 7th track - "Close My Eyes" on Rosie O'Donnell's show. To hear Mariah tell it, people barely knew she had an album out. I get that she may have wanted some songs to get pushed even harder, but my point is that I think she exaggerates things. You also have to remember that Mariah alienated a lot of her audience at that time. Her music got more urban, but more than that I think the change in her image put some people off. Neither "Butterfly" or "My All" went top 10 at AC radio, which shows the decline in her popularity with that audience. Did any of her singles from Butterfly go top 10 at Top 40 radio? I think "Honey" may have peaked at #11, but I'm not sure. Regardless, my point is that radio wasn't feeling her the way it had been from 1990-1996, so to expect Sony to push something like "Breakdown" as a full single was probably asking too much. I think the double-single with "My All" worked great, actually. I see both sides of it. Columbia was reasonably skittish because, to the public, Butterfly felt like a very different direction (although I think the new image was the bigger hurdle to jump than the music). Granted, it is easy to say this in retrospect, but I think even back then any reasonable person could surmise that she would not see as much success with Butterfly as she did with the albums before it because she was slipping drifting away from pop some. that would have been the case even if she was still rocking turtlenecks the whole time, but the fact that she wasn't certainly didn't help. But with that said, Columbia seemed to make the decision before they even bothered to try not to push things as hard, which of course allowed them to use the lesser success to justify their reasoning. Mariah had a point in that interview that she had plenty of r&b songs in her catalog; the public just wasn't as familiar with them because Columbia never sent those out. So in a way Butterfly was kind of set up to be less successful even before it was ever an idea, because Columbia always wanted her to be as pop-friendly as possible and ingrained in many people's minds a certain idea of what a Mariah Carey is and should be. In that respect 5x platinum and 2 #1 singles was a great achievement for the era. I think Mariah was miffed because of the 'official' way singles are released back then, and the fact that so many songs from Butterfly simply didn't get that official treatment. "Breakdown" seemed to get the biggest shaft because it was only sent to urban as far as I can tell, and at the time, it seemed to be Mariah's favorite (probably for the same reasons she is still so attached to the ODB remix of "Fantasy"). IMO Mariah's thing was that she wasn't necessarily all, everything I want to release would be a hit! and hits are all that I want! but she wanted her choices to at least have a chance and Columbia not only didn't fully give her that, but then left her with most of the criticism that she only wanted to release songs that would be #1 pop singles, when that wasn't the case. And I think My All is a good example of why that would bother her, because the commercial release and push behind it is really what made it #1. I truly believe all of the songs you mentioned could have been at least top 10 hits, and she probably could have gotten at least two other #1s out of them even with the lower airplay peaks, if they'd just gotten well-timed commercial releases. It might have extended the life of the era, too (something she also complained about a bit, how Janet could work an album for two years and she never got that). And then there is just the whole divorce dynamic that was going on. Mariah is a drama queen, but she's probably not without her reasons, and she likely felt that the label's reasons for some of its decisions were less than 100% pragmatic. "I think this turn in image will really affect your stock with the general public, it's just too drastic and you need to ease into it" and "I hate your new image and I want you to keep being the image that I created and molded you to be" - I think many people would be much less receptive to heed the latter than the former even if both statements lead to the same conclusion. |
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crystalphnx
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Post by crystalphnx on Apr 20, 2015 12:01:36 GMT -5
Wasn't "Breakdown" essentially just a B-side in the US? Or a double A-side? Yes, it got its own video, but it was only available physically on the "My All" single (unless it had its own vinyl release?)
I lose track of Billboard's A-side/B-side policies over the years, but did it chart as just "My All" on the Hot 100 (which seems odd, since the physical US single clearly said "My All and Breakdown" - not counting the separate "My All/Stay Awhile" single) and "My All/Breakdown" on Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs (or whatever that chart was called in '98)?
It's a bit like "Never Forget You" - except that one didn't get its own video, but did have its own physical single release separate from the WY/NFY single.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2015 12:29:18 GMT -5
But with that said, Columbia seemed to make the decision before they even bothered to try not to push things as hard, which of course allowed them to use the lesser success to justify their reasoning. Mariah had a point in that interview that she had plenty of r&b songs in her catalog; the public just wasn't as familiar with them because Columbia never sent those out. So in a way Butterfly was kind of set up to be less successful even before it was ever an idea, because Columbia always wanted her to be as pop-friendly as possible and ingrained in many people's minds a certain idea of what a Mariah Carey is and should be. In that respect 5x platinum and 2 #1 singles was a great achievement for the era. I think Mariah was miffed because of the 'official' way singles are released back then, and the fact that so many songs from Butterfly simply didn't get that official treatment. "Breakdown" seemed to get the biggest shaft because it was only sent to urban as far as I can tell, and at the time, it seemed to be Mariah's favorite (probably for the same reasons she is still so attached to the ODB remix of "Fantasy"). IMO Mariah's thing was that she wasn't necessarily all, everything I want to release would be a hit! and hits are all that I want! but she wanted her choices to at least have a chance and Columbia not only didn't fully give her that, but then left her with most of the criticism that she only wanted to release songs that would be #1 pop singles, when that wasn't the case. And I think My All is a good example of why that would bother her, because the commercial release and push behind it is really what made it #1. I truly believe all of the songs you mentioned could have been at least top 10 hits, and she probably could have gotten at least two other #1s out of them even with the lower airplay peaks, if they'd just gotten well-timed commercial releases. It might have extended the life of the era, too (something she also complained about a bit, how Janet could work an album for two years and she never got that). I get that on a personal level Mariah wanted more of her R&B stuff released, but Sony promoted what they thought would sell the best. And it worked. Mariah had unprecedented success from 1990-1996. I think she also wants it both ways a bit; she says she wanted more singles promoted, but does she realize that would have meant more video shoots, talk shows, etc. for her? Considering she also complained about how much Sony worked her, it's odd that in a way she was asking for more work. The reality is she didn't release an actual album in 1992 or 1996. Yes someone like Janet had more singles, but Janet also put on full-scale world tours (not to mention shooting videos for all of those singles). In other words Janet was actively working for a few years per album. Or look at Madonna who had a few years between albums, but she tended to release hits sets, soundtracks, etc. in her off years and would also do huge world tours and even film movies. Mariah is the one who didn't want to tour early on, and instead Tommy had her record. That was to her benefit, ultimately. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 12:41:12 GMT -5
I think Vegas will be a very good workout for Mariah. Unlike the other signers she wont have the disipline it takes to stay there 2-3 years but 18 shows will do something to re-energize her career choices going forward. I hope #1s is successful album and I hope she has one good Sony studio album after that. then I will be satisfied with her career. (I wouldn't even mind if she retired after the next studio album, and only toured occasionally).
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 14:07:09 GMT -5
That Vibe interview is so great, that whole issue was such a trip to read.
I wonder if Mariah's interviews would be more consistently good and in-depth if she didn't have the added stress of being on camera.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Apr 20, 2015 14:11:22 GMT -5
I wonder if Mariah's interviews would be more consistently good and in-depth if she didn't have the added stress of being on camera. Yes. Her interviews for magazines (her Rolling Stone ones come to mind, among others) are often pretty great. I assume it's in part because she isn't constantly worrying about how she looks. |
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Apr 20, 2015 14:45:15 GMT -5
Mariah, for loving BREAKDOWN and the roof so much, I can't remember the last time she performed it without straight lipping it to the album versions. I guess she did THE ROOF on the MIAMTEC Tour, but it was completely lipped. Breakdown...I can't remember when she last did that. I know there was a live clip during the rainbow tour.
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Leigh
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Post by Leigh on Apr 20, 2015 15:08:59 GMT -5
I'm sure she lipped to Breakdown on the first few stops of The Adventures of Mimi tour and then dropped it from the setlist (or was it possibly the AA tour?)
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Relaxing Cup
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Post by Relaxing Cup on Apr 20, 2015 15:11:05 GMT -5
I'm sure she lipped to Breakdown on the first few stops of The Adventures of Mimi tour and then dropped it from the setlist (or was it possibly the AA tour?) Yeah, I remember that, she had the chairs and wore a red outfit. |
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Post by Leigh on Apr 20, 2015 15:14:21 GMT -5
I'm sure she lipped to Breakdown on the first few stops of The Adventures of Mimi tour and then dropped it from the setlist (or was it possibly the AA tour?) Yeah, I remember that, she had the chairs and wore a red outfit. Yep that's the one! |
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Post by sundaymorningguy on Apr 20, 2015 15:45:53 GMT -5
The thing about The Butterfly era that I think comes across from those interviews is rather than Sony compromising and helping support their artist who is trying to sell an album and make them money, she felt somewhat abandoned. It seems she felt like she was left high and dry explaining things away. She was also trying to transition more into the R&B side of her work which would have been a smart investment on Sony's part to build her avenues with Urban radio. It certainly wouldn't have put her in the position where she is now fighting for an identity on radio today.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 16:55:43 GMT -5
They were just greedy at Sony in the '90s. She made them a crap load of money and yet they couldn't fully support her Butterfly/Rainbow eras. It's pretty stupid if you ask me.
I just hope 'Infinity' isn't purely R&B as a "sticking it to past Sony employees moment" . Because times have changed Mariah, times have changed...
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Dreams
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Post by Dreams on Apr 20, 2015 17:05:04 GMT -5
A poster at FOMM heard the song apparently:
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Post by Heart Shaped Box on Apr 20, 2015 17:16:48 GMT -5
So the closest thing to the first album this could resemble is Someday - midtempo, R&B, with a distinct bass line. LOL
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 17:35:50 GMT -5
There is just no way we are going to know what this sounds like until we hear it. It's almost scientifically impossible for more than three people to describe a Mariah song the same way for some reason, lol.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 17:47:52 GMT -5
all someone would have to say is: "it's closest to this song (insert Mariah song, or another song all together)"
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 18:05:54 GMT -5
all someone would have to say is: "it's closest to this song (insert Mariah song, or another song all together)" Remember when "Cruise Control" was the "next Fantasy"? Or when "Angels Cry" was back to her "Vision of Love roots"? Or when "Bye Bye" was an even more obvious smash than "One Sweet Day"? I never trust the early reviews. |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2015 18:31:06 GMT -5
Not to mention they always say "classic Mariah" which could mean like 4 completely different sounds at this point.
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