carriekins
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Post by carriekins on Oct 16, 2014 14:27:35 GMT -5
There is enough overlap between the mediabase and billboard panels that what is happening on mediabase is typically enough of an indication of the future of a song. I wouldn't quite say that PLP is in free fall mode, as it had a slight audience gain today, but it is definitely in trouble. The fact that a CMA-nominated DJ (Broadway) is tweeting that the song is done also does not bode well for the future of the single, since he likely has information directly from the label.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 14:30:30 GMT -5
I would call this "polarizing" in the sense that it's preachy and a little corny; a lot of people find that to be a turnoff. Garth is a legend, but radio is tough for everyone these days, and Garth probably isn't as beloved/popular by the current generation of young fans the way he was in the 90's. I like some of Garth's material, but the vocals and mixing are just plain bad on this. Even if he had released something great, I still have my doubts that radio would play it, though.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2014 14:59:19 GMT -5
Thanks for your thoughts...most of the conversations in this post reference mediabase which has a different scoring system and reporting stations than that of nielsen. Nielsen. BDS provides more weight to audeience than mediabase does; I am sure we we see more developments soon. Welcome to Pulse. I think you'll find that a lot of us here have a strong understanding as to how the charts work. :) I wouldn't say that "People Loving People" is done yet, but even on the current Billboard chart (which, yes, is Nielsen BDS) Garth was down in spins for the week (-55) and also lost 155k audience impressions. That's not exactly free-fall mode, but it's not gaining either, and so far this week Garth has been unable to rebound. Mediabase shows Garth down 128 spins in the last 7 days. The vast majority of reporting stations for Billboard are reporting stations for Mediabase as well. "People Loving People" did gain 2 spins in today's Mediabase update, but it lost another 221,000 audience impressions. I can understand rooting for this to go top 10, but consider this: at #20 on the current Billboard chart, Garth has 13.9 million in audience. The #15 song, Scotty McCreery's "Feelin' It", is more than 4 million ahead (and pulling away, because Garth has been unable to gain himself), and the #10 song, Frankie Ballard's "Sunshine & Whiskey", has nearly 33.1 million. So Garth has to more than double his audience to even come close to the top 10 (usually 29-30 million will net the #10 spot). And I think the updates over the last few weeks have made it clear that it's going to be nearly impossible for this song to even get any higher than where it currently is (#20). It would need a major turnaround and right now all evidence shows that "People Loving People" is barely hanging by a thread. So again, it's not exactly in free-fall mode yet, but it's not gaining any audience or spins, either. Thus, there is no way that this song will be able to crack the top 10 (let alone get past #20) unless it can somehow find a way to gain spins. And right now that's just not happening...the song is going backward.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Oct 17, 2014 14:06:37 GMT -5
What's a chart?
I think there's still room for Garth fans to dream. For example, the song's only down 61 spins since Monday on MB. So you can tell yourself maybe it's only 50 spins down on BB's tally for the week, so if it has one good day -- there have been a couple of positive-in-spins days on MB this week so far -- maybe it can regain that BB bullet.
I'm not endorsing that view, but I'm sympathetic to anyone who holds on to hope until the last moment. Truth is, it will only regain the bullet based on spins if its audience loss is less than 3% of last week's number, and he'd have to start showing audience gains over the weekend to make that happen.
But hope is a good thing. Besides, if this song doesn't resume its chart climb, when will the next Aristotle reference make it onto a country playlist?
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rbundy1987
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Post by rbundy1987 on Oct 18, 2014 9:17:35 GMT -5
Yep, this morning's update confirms this song is done as it down 64 spins today and down an impressive 563,000 in audience impressions today. Bullet is now at -163 and is still #24 but falling.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Oct 20, 2014 20:06:20 GMT -5
Second consecutive bulletless week on Billboard, down 20-24 and loses over 2 million AI. No doubt about it that this one's done, becoming the second song with an hourly airplay deal this year to peak at its debut (after "The Outsiders").
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Post by Deleted on Oct 20, 2014 20:16:04 GMT -5
It's disappointing to see this peak so low. It's only going to get 7 total weeks on the chart--tonight will be its last appearance on Billboard, since this is its 2nd straight non-bulleted week.
For what it's worth, this is at #6 on Bullseye's Callout America, and it has the 2nd highest total passion score (46%) of any song on the survey. That's pretty remarkable, given that Callout America generally seems to capture the most loyal radio listeners and thus right now it is probably very much bro-leaning. Songs like "Burnin' It Down" and "Ready Set Roll" (among others) have tested very well at Callout America in the last couple of months.
The current top 10 is "Neon Light", "Burnin' It Down", Kenny's "Til It's Gone" (debuting at #3), Sam Hunt's "Leave The Night On" at #4, Maddie & Tae's "Girl In A Country Song" up 3 more spots to #5 (GIACS was way down at #29 on Callout America back on September 15), Garth up 3 spots to #6, Jake Owen's "What We Ain't Got" up 3 spots to #7, RaeLynn's "God Made Girls" up 10 spots (!!!) to #8 (like Maddie & Tae, RaeLynn was way low on the survey--down at #27--back on September 15), Chase Rice's "Ready Set Roll" at #9, and Brad Paisley's "Perfect Storm" up 4 spots to #10.
Only about 5% separates Garth (#6) from Big & Rich (#23), so most of the songs in that range are receiving almost identically positive feedback, but Garth is getting more "really likes" than "likes" and that's the difference. Admittedly, I don't think "People Loving People" has tested too well at Rate The Music, but still, it's hard to believe that it debuted at #19 and that #19 is its peak.
A sudden flame-out is always possible in situations like this, but given the crazy response to his tour and some good listener feedback (again, at least on Callout America), I figured this would go at least top 10. Hopefully his next single does better. I wasn't a huge fan of this one but I'm just surprised that radio essentially gave it the cold shoulder. I know it's not typical of what radio plays these days, but it seemed that it had enough going for it to warrant radio giving it more conversions and a higher peak.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Oct 20, 2014 20:22:38 GMT -5
I was one of the people who, before hearing the song or seeing radio's reaction, was all but certain that a new Garth single would be a #1 hit, regardless of what it sounded like. I'm pretty shocked that this has peaked at #19 (by comparison, even George Strait had a top 2 hit last year - 60 for 60 campaign aside), so the fact that Garth could only manage a #19 is pretty disappointing. Even a couple of weeks ago, I was hopeful that this could stabilize and at least make it to the top 10. This has to be a pretty big blow for Garth and his team.
I'm not sure what they do next. I guess release a radio-friendly second single ASAP, but I just hope that the initial hype about Garth's return hasn't worn off and wasn't wasted on this song. Admittedly I don't love it, but I do like it. I was a little disappointed in it, but I don't think that it deserved only 7 weeks on the chart and a #19 peak.
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gopolks
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Post by gopolks on Oct 21, 2014 17:26:10 GMT -5
Its just a poor song choice, and has nothing to do with a dwindling Garth fan base. I mean look at his world tour, hes selling out multiple shows in every city he goes to, hes breaking records, I think its 188 thousand tickets in Minnesota?
I dont think you can judge Garth's comeback by a poor song choice. I guess we will have to wait and see how the second single does. Most websites are predicting his first week sales of his new album will be around 100-300K, I think that is way too low. He will push 500K.
As for PLP, part of the problem was the sound mixing, you can hardly hear what he is saying during the versus.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Oct 21, 2014 21:14:34 GMT -5
What I like about the quick drop of the Garth song is that it shows the downside of crazy first-week spins for songs that aren't really going to go anywhere. That might lead to a decrease in songs that get this treatment. I can see it for an Aldean song or a Bryan song that are odds-on to reach #1 no matter how they are introduced. But if Garth can't make headway with that approach, maybe a lot of others will re-think their promotion plans.
As for what this "means," I agree that we don't know until we see the results from a second single. But I think that you can't just dismiss this result as "poor song choice" as if there's no chance of any other explanation. One very real possibility here is that Garth is not going to make it on today's country radio no matter what he releases. We don't know.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Oct 22, 2014 7:42:41 GMT -5
As for PLP, part of the problem was the sound mixing, you can hardly hear what he is saying during the versus. I could understand him just fine. At least better than the bridge on the Reba/Kelly version of "Because of You". I still can't make out a single word on THAT mess. Why do audio engineers usually make bad producers? First Greg Droman, now Mark A. Miller. Julian King and Mickey Jack Cones are at least decent, but they tend to be nearly Frank Liddell-level heavy-handed at times. Oh well, they're still usually better at production than, say, the lead guitarist for a bro-country act...
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 22, 2014 7:44:29 GMT -5
What I like about the quick drop of the Garth song is that it shows the downside of crazy first-week spins for songs that aren't really going to go anywhere. That might lead to a decrease in songs that get this treatment. I can see it for an Aldean song or a Bryan song that are odds-on to reach #1 no matter how they are introduced. But if Garth can't make headway with that approach, maybe a lot of others will re-think their promotion plans. As for what this "means," I agree that we don't know until we see the results from a second single. But I think that you can't just dismiss this result as "poor song choice" as if there's no chance of any other explanation. One very real possibility here is that Garth is not going to make it on today's country radio no matter what he releases. We don't know. That may be true, but if Garth Brooks were to release Friends In Low Places part deux (provided it's good), radio WILL jump on it. People Loving People was not cutting it or else Brooks would be in the top ten right now.
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Post by spinninthehits on Oct 22, 2014 8:55:45 GMT -5
I think there are many factors at play with Garth right now. Just last week he broke his own North Carolina record for tickets sold (which was set in 1998). . . selling out 2 shows in Greensboro and then adding 3 more dates at the Greensboro Coliseum . . . Garth is in a position where he doesn't need to chart singles to sell tickets (or albums for that matter). His ticket prices are also very reasonable (tickets for these particular shows are $67). When he retired, he left fans wanting more.
Garth's career didn't run a traditional course either. . . Most successful artists debut,chart music, peak, decline and then eventually disappear from the charts. When Garth retired I believe he was past his peak but not necessarily in full decline. . . its like Jim Brown or Barry Sanders retiring from football when they could've still played at a high level for several more years (sorry for the football analogy but its the best I could think of). We didn't get that declining portion of his career that we usually see. Other artists from the same era have gone thru this . . . Patty Loveless, Travis Tritt, Alan Jackson, Martina McBride and even George Strait to a certain extent.
I can even remember a few people predicting his retirement in 2000 would be a crippling blow to Country Radio. . . But as time has proven (as far as Radio Airplay goes) there is no one artist bigger than the format (Hello, Taylor Swift). The format will keep on rolling. Times change, music trends and tastes change. If Garth were a new artist today, "Friends In Low Places" or "The Dance" may not even chart. . . That's another thing that Garth is competing against. . . himself. "Friends . . " and "The Dance" are two of the most iconic country songs in recent memory. Its got to be difficult when everything you release is being compared to what you accomplished in the past.
Garth will ALWAYS have a very loyal fan base. I'm not sure however, that he will be able to appeal to new fans that are not familiar with him. He will sell out shows. He will sell digital downloads (although I too believe his system is very flawed). I'm just not sure chart success is a given.
I'm not saying he will never chart another hit single. . . just don't expect him to pick up on the charts where he left off.
Just my opinion. I have worked in Radio for most of Garth's career and don't believe I have ever seen a bigger Star on the Country Format or more powerful performer.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 22, 2014 9:11:19 GMT -5
^You're right. I can't even imagine The Dance being played right next to Cruise.
People Loving People is at #10 in Canada. At least Brooks made it to the top ten on one chart.
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tomk
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Post by tomk on Oct 22, 2014 14:50:35 GMT -5
I am from Canada and I hope this song keeps climbing the chart here. To me this is his best effort ever because he took a message and communicated it to millions of people knwoing that it would stir up the pot and probably not do well on the chart. To me this is very brave rather than coming out with a single that everyone was expecting and it is using the influence he has over his fans to get a good message across all of society.
You can use talent for good or evil.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Oct 22, 2014 15:36:19 GMT -5
^ Also, isn't Canada like, crazy liberal? That might be a factor.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Oct 22, 2014 15:39:33 GMT -5
^ Also, isn't Canada like, crazy liberal? That might be a factor. Along with the fact there are only a handful of monitored stations compared to the U.S, so it's just a tad bit easier to score hits up there.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Oct 22, 2014 15:46:13 GMT -5
^ Also, isn't Canada like, crazy liberal? That might be a factor. Along with the fact there are only a handful of monitored stations compared to the U.S, so it's just a tad bit easier to score hits up there. Unless you're actually a Canadian country artist. Seriously like none of their artists ever seem to get higher than around #5, and that's always surprised me. They did have two last year (one by Gord Bamford, one by Dean Brody) but so far none this year.
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rjz
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Post by rjz on Oct 22, 2014 15:46:38 GMT -5
I am from Canada and I hope this song keeps climbing the chart here. To me this is his best effort ever because he took a message and communicated it to millions of people knwoing that it would stir up the pot and probably not do well on the chart. To me this is very brave rather than coming out with a single that everyone was expecting and it is using the influence he has over his fans to get a good message across all of society. You can use talent for good or evil. No offense to anyone who likes this song of course; but in my opinion the message isn't a pot stirrer at all-there are plenty of songs out there throughout the ages that espouse this viewpoint (that, basically-we should all just get along ). It seems the song (at least to enough listeners and program directors) just suffers from mediocrity as far as melody, production and vocals go. I like the message, but wouldn't buy the song because it is sonically meh. Even many Garth fans here at Pulse don't seem too fond of it. I'm speaking of the song on its own merits and not comparing it to some of the drivel that is out there being played and purchased in significant numbers.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 22, 2014 15:50:54 GMT -5
I am from Canada and I hope this song keeps climbing the chart here. To me this is his best effort ever because he took a message and communicated it to millions of people knwoing that it would stir up the pot and probably not do well on the chart. To me this is very brave rather than coming out with a single that everyone was expecting and it is using the influence he has over his fans to get a good message across all of society. You can use talent for good or evil. First, welcome to Pulse Music Board, tomk! Along with the fact there are only a handful of monitored stations compared to the U.S, so it's just a tad bit easier to score hits up there. Unless you're actually a Canadian country artist. Seriously like none of their artists ever seem to get higher than around #5, and that's always surprised me. They did have two last year (one by Gord Bamford, one by Dean Brody) but so far none this year. You are correct. Those two artists had the LAST #1s of the year: pulsemusic.proboards.com/thread/127661/1-country-singles-albums-2013
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Oct 22, 2014 15:58:25 GMT -5
Along with the fact there are only a handful of monitored stations compared to the U.S, so it's just a tad bit easier to score hits up there. Unless you're actually a Canadian country artist. Seriously like none of their artists ever seem to get higher than around #5, and that's always surprised me. They did have two last year (one by Gord Bamford, one by Dean Brody) but so far none this year. Nice catch. I thought I was the only one who picked up on that. :)
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Oct 22, 2014 20:59:31 GMT -5
^ Also, isn't Canada like, crazy liberal? That might be a factor. I wouldn't say so, but I guess it all depends on your perspective. I think the issue with Canadian songs only getting so high is that with CanCon laws, stations are forced to play a set amount of Canadian music in their playlists, which gets Canadian songs into the top 20 and top 10. But since American media is heavily dominant up here, American artists and songs get far more attention and publicity, so the big American songs seem to be the ones that get the most airplay. Also, more established American artists have an advantage over newer artists, as there are so many 'extra' spins left over after the CanCon requirements have been fulfilled, so someone like Garth would have a huge advantage over, say Cole Swindell. So it doesn't really surprise me that Garth's song has done well here.
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tomk
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Post by tomk on Oct 22, 2014 21:32:48 GMT -5
I think a good Man Against the Machine move would be for Garth to get his own station on XM called no-bro country and then he could release whatever he wants. Why not an accapella album...that would be fun! There is too much standardization on today's radio which inhibits many artists crafts.
I do think the demography in Canada is suited for this song....it is number 2 on a Toronto station.
:)
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 28, 2014 8:13:07 GMT -5
8. BROOKS' 50: Garth Brooks turns the half century mark this week. In honor of his 50th birthday, we will rank his 50 biggest hits. For songs peaking at #1 or #2, weeks in those positions are first, followed by weeks in the top 40. For all other songs, their stay in the top 40 will determine their ranking. Ready? 1. Friends In Low Places-1990-4-19 2. What She's Doing Now-1992-4-19 3. Longneck Bottle-1997-3-20 4. The Dance-1990-3-18 5. Shameless-1991-2-20 6. Unanswered Prayers-1991-2-19 7. Ain't Going Down Til The Sun Comes Up-1993-2-17 8. The Thunder Rolls-1991-2-16 9. If Tomorrow Never Comes-1989-1-23 10. More Than A Memory-2007-1-20 11. Two Of A Kind, Workin' On A Full House-1991-1-19 12. To Make You Feel My Love-1998-1-18 13. That Summer-1993-1-16 14. She's Every Woman-1995-1-16 15. Two Pina Coladas-1998-1-15 16. The Beaches Of Cheyenne-1996-1-15 17. The River-1992-1-14 18. American Honky-Tonk Bar Association-1993-1-14 19. Somewhere Other Than The Night-1993-1-14 20. In Another's Eyes-with Trisha Yearwood-1997-2-19 (#2) 21. She's Gonna Make It-1998-1-18 (#2) 22. Not Counting You-1990-1-17 (#2) 23. Learning To Live Again-1993-1-14 (#2) 24. Callin' Baton Rouge-1994-1-13 (#2) 25. Good Ride Cowboy-2005 (#3) 26. You Move Me-1998 (#3) 27. Standing Outside The Fire-1994 (#3) 28. Papa Loved Mama-1992 (#3) 29. Rodeo-1991 (#3) 30. That Ol' Wind-1996 (#4) 31. Wrapped Up In You-2002 (#5) 32. It's Midnight Cinderella-1996 (#5) 33. Wild Horses-2001 (#7) 34. One Night A Day-1994 (#7) 35. Watcha Gonna Do With A Cowboy-with Chris LeDoux-1992 (#7) 36. Much Too Young To Feel This Damn Old-1989 (#8) 37. It's Your Song-1998 (#9) 38. We Shall Be Free-1992 (#12) 39. Do What You Gotta Do-2000 (#13) 40. Squeeze Me In-with Trisha Yearwood-2002 (#16) 41. Thicker Than Blood-2002 (#18) 42. Where Your Road Leads-with Trisha Yearwood-1998 (#18) 43. Workin' For A Livin'-with Huey Lewis-2008 (#19) 44. The Change-1996 (#19) 45. People Loving People-2014 (#19) 46. When You Come Back To Me Again-2000 (#21) 47. Katie Wants A Fast One-with Steve Wariner-2000 (#22) 48. Love Will Always Win-with Trisha Yearwood-2006 (#23) 49. The Fever-1995 (#23) 50. Beer Run-with George Jones-2001 (#24) That was the list of the top 50 Garth Brooks songs according to his Billboard country chart performance. People Loving People just debuted at #19, pushing Why Ain't I Running out of the top 50. The current single would rank at #45. Once it peaks, I will redo this list with its proper placement. I have People Loving People ranked in the top 50 of Garth Brooks' hits. It spent seven weeks in the top 40 and is at #45. At #44 is The Change which spent nine weeks in the top 40.
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Nov 2, 2014 14:56:31 GMT -5
I expected this to have a little more of a free fall by now but "People Loving People" actually had a better week this week than the previous two weeks. It's still going recurrent tonight as it lost 54 spins and 200k in audience, thus marking its third consecutive bulletless week on MB, but I expected RCA to let this go by now and try another song off Garth's new record, but perhaps they want to get closer to that November 11th release date before doing so.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Nov 2, 2014 15:00:31 GMT -5
I expected this to have a little more of a free fall by now but "People Loving People" actually had a better week this week than the previous two weeks. It's still going recurrent tonight as it lost 54 spins and 200k in audience, thus marking its third consecutive bulletless week on MB, but I expected RCA to let this go by now and try another song off Garth's new record, but perhaps they want to get closer to that November 11th release date before doing so. By the looks of things, Garth Brooks will not be performing at this week's C.M.A.s. Too bad. He could have debuted his second single there.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Nov 3, 2014 9:22:30 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 23:14:24 GMT -5
Maybe Garth will get another iHeartRadio world premiere closer to or on his album's release date similarly to Eric Church after his first lead single "The Outsiders" debuted at its peak position. "People Loving People" may not have been the right single for radio, but I still think Garth will have a lot of momentum to climb the charts if he gets another single out in time for his album's release. The only reason I'm not sure he'll have another single out so soon is because now he and RCA have only one chance left to get this right. If they choose another single radio doesn't like, Garth may ruin his radio career, so they need to take their time and think long and hard about what the next release will be rather than just throwing something out there and relying on name recognition to get it up the charts.
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hosssulpizio
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Post by hosssulpizio on Nov 4, 2014 0:18:37 GMT -5
Maybe Garth will get another iHeartRadio world premiere closer to or on his album's release date similarly to Eric Church after his first lead single "The Outsiders" debuted at its peak position. "People Loving People" may not have been the right single for radio, but I still think Garth will have a lot of momentum to climb the charts if he gets another single out in time for his album's release. The only reason I'm not sure he'll have another single out so soon is because now he and RCA have only one chance left to get this right. If they choose another single radio doesn't like, Garth may ruin his radio career, so they need to take their time and think long and hard about what the next release will be rather than just throwing something out there and relying on name recognition to get it up the charts. I hope Garth decides on "Cowboys Forever" or maybe "All American Kid". Both of those songs would be great for Country radio. Plus he probably will do better because "People Loving People" was too preachy and he has no other songs like that on his album so he'll do fine.
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CoJoFan
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Post by CoJoFan on Nov 6, 2014 17:02:22 GMT -5
Any word yet on a new single? You would think with the album release this coming week they would release a second single to help with sales.
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