Okay...so here's a look at everyone from pages 1-5. Left out RVS and non-substantial posts.
LiucciSuggested keeping RVS short.
LinkCynthia answers.
LinkVotes bigfan RE: his Cynthia answers.
LinkSays votes get reactions - new player is most likely to slip up so why not?
LinkQuestions how long someone can be "new".
LinkSays newer players can be more difficult to detect if scum b/c they're cautious, unless you catch obvious hints. Thinks bigfan would be a bit more deceptive than, say, a first-time player who's scum, but still unvotes bigfan.
LinkVotes Codex b/c of his claim.
Link2 questions for Az: Scum-Town ratio? Who's most scummy right now?
LinkVotes Mikey until he speaks, only person who hasn't yet.
LinkStates that hedging is the worst as town, should use votes to get reactions until have solid scum read.
LinkVotes Az for continuing to hedge, asks Zebra who he finds scummiest.
LinkUnsure his methods are working yet, says he won't have same activity level tomorrow/Thursday. Wants to see Stacey chip in a bit more.
LinkPlanning on analysis soon.
LinkVotes Max b/c feels he's getting a free pass - he's been raising points but not really acting on his suspicions. Seems like Max might be mentioning, but not voting, as an attempt to get us to target people. Not content with lynching Az or Kunt D1 - Kunt is constantly bringing up points before he can make them, makes for decent town read at least? Az seems too convenient a lynch.
Linkbigfan101Agreed with keeping RVS short, though possibly motivated by his own prior bad game consequences.
LinkCynthia answers.
LinkCalls Liucci's vote fair.
LinkSays he'd work with group to figure out best solution on first elimination.
LinkFeels like last time he did his best to research and try to figure out solution.
LinkRelates his past game strategies, says he'll try to further conversation and help town. Also says he's cool with it if he gets lynched as part of the process.
LinkWon't be on much last couple of hours, midday end times really rough.
LinkTakes RVS vote off Zebra. Doubts Liucci is scum b/c completely different gameplay. Bothered by Cynthia's characterization of Max/Zebra, refutes about Max. Also bothered by Page 1 push, and votes her.
LinkSeems hypocritical for Az to have problem with his voting methods, when Az just voted Codex for not being around. And it's still early. Sees Liucci's gameplay as different b/c it's different from previous two when he was scum.
LinkCynthiaGave serious push towards ending RVS with her two questions. (To be fair: This didn't end RVS on its own - WE did, by running with this so quickly.)
LinkEarly questions are new strategy she's trying. Doesn't have patience for dicking around for two & a half days and then nothing to go on for final 12 hours. Also if Liucci is a distraction, so is Codex.
Link(2-post word wall - link is to first) RVS often lingers too long, too short > too long. Reactions to her questions more important than actual answers. Why not bring changing gameplay style mentality to Mafia? One shouldn't always fall back on "_____ played like this", but players do have patterns. Az not the only one to not answer Qs. If most are singling out Zebra/Max to vote off, next step should be "do we actually think they're scummy enough to commit? Even if so, is someone else even scummier?" And least willing to vote off should not get pass. We tend to fall back on 3-point collective train of voting that we shouldn't, b/c we get stuck in rut where we're not talking or analyzing. Voting off inactive isn't terrible, but we only should if we're legitimately getting no scum tells. Only Codex seems to acknowledge that we should give same side-eye to those we want to keep as we do inactives. Votes bigfan - has posted a lot but said little, which gives impression of wanting to appear active without actually being.
LinkNeed to ask Az why he's waiting. Assumed he's saying he'll go with least-contributor once everyone's spoken. Was back-and-forth between voting bigfan or Az, isn't really crazy about Az's flavor-theory. bigfan is also edging to should know better, and hasn't put stated plan into motion yet - Az conceded his answer was same as most. Looking at those two the most b/c all other reads are null or town. Understanding we give to newbies shouldn't become blind spot.
LinkWanted to push out of RVS early - accomplished that, getting us thinking about how we actually regard others in general, and stirring up substantive discussion so people can't claim nothing to analyze. Does think Max has tried to step his game up, and neither he nor Zebra are on her radar right now. Asking earlier was better than waiting and having lynch that was all about scrambling. Won't have much to add today, but will be around tomorrow.
LinkTells Az he tends to hesitate on naming suspicions, and can't be afraid of being wrong. Notes that Stacey, bigfan, and kinda-sorta me didn't answer her Qs. Echoes Liucci in that wants to hear more from Stacey. At this point Qs can be abandoned and we can turn to examining resulting discussion. Quotes point of not lynching Max/Zebra if everyone agrees, for truth. Doesn't disagree with looking at her/Kunt due to them being biggest contributors.
LinkWould vote Mikey - massively flying under radar, not contributing, and doesn't have Stacey's "new" excuse. Zebra/Codex have stuff to review and neither sets off alarm.
LinkAgrees with Az that bigfan's town-read of Liucci is flawed.
LinkZebraCynthia answers.
LinkQuestions Liucci's rationale for voting; bigfan could very well be scum but his non-answers seem like new player mistake, not scum-tell. Kind of makes Liucci more scummy by targeting new player?
LinkTakes RVS vote off Max.
LinkSuggests to Stacey to dive right in, we're willing to help!
LinkAdmits to being low-key and not as aggressive, says he's been trying to improve that. Also supports lynching least helpful player, didn't mention names earlier b/c wanted to see what activity would look like going forward, plans to continue that. Waiting for Mikey to come in before slamming for inactivity - absence isn't scum-tell now but if continued would be suspicious.
LinkBusy now, will be back later to offer input + answer Liucci.
LinkKuntCynthia answers. Doesn't seem to like the early Qs giving finger to RVS, but also doesn't seem to see it as problematic. Also sees immediate Town read on Cynthia from it.
LinkWould rather Az piggyback and name names than avoid giving any at all; avoidance worse than piggybacking.
LinkWants to say Liucci is Town b/c he isn't this aggressive as scum.
LinkThinks there's potential set-up in everyone giving same 3 people to keep: But because same people are suggested nobody wants to vote for them when they're actually scum. But...a reach since no reason to believe me, Cynthia, or himself are scum.
LinkHopes setup is balanced, votes Codex.
Link(Three posts - link is to first) Thinks Liucci is Town this game b/c in Cynthia's game aggressiveness cost him when he thought he was securing win. Probably flawed logic though b/c profiling instead of looking at what's being said. Votes Az b/c "a stand is a stand" feels like an excuse that wasn't asked for, and concerned over nobody putting votes down.
LinkCynthia voting bigfan for waiting till everyone speaks is reasonable, but Az is far more suspect for also b/c he should know better. FOS her + Az. Max raised good point about keeping new players at least first day unless they're scum-apparent. Wants to hear more from Stacey.
LinkVotes Liucci.
LinkFOS Mikey - dead silent for most of first two days and first post is parroting.
LinkOf Zebra/Mikey/Stacey/Codex who would you vote and why?
LinkThinks questioning Az-suspicion has resonated - says that voting him was chance to apply pressure when his Cynthia answer was avoidant while mine seemed genuine. Liucci vote was to bait reaction; didn't really get that. Open to be proven wrong about slight Town read on him. One thing that's frustrating is the more people talk, the more he looks into them to try to find something...and keeps going back to Cynthia b/c something's...off. Like fresh eyes to look over her.
LinkVotes Mikey for above reasons (Cynthia's).
LinkAzUnsure of first lynch option; wants everyone to show up first.
LinkClarifies that he could give better answer in ~24 hours.
LinkSays he has dumb theory about how flavor characters fit within game, but it's dumb b/c it's flavor.
LinkExpands on dumb flavor theory (but still dumb).
LinkDoesn't see more than 3 scum, no Indies. Could just be duo - more forgiving for mistakes, but might be harder to pin down. Kunt sticks out b/c flavor sticks out like sore thumb. Pursuing that is dumb, but a stand is a stand. Gets the umbrage from Max/Zebra over being good first lynch b/c perceived "useless", but does think that if someone doesn't really contribute to this Day and it drags to deadline, then he'd advocate lynching them regardless of newbie or not.
LinkDoesn't want to proceed under tunnel vision. Doesn't think holding back a little D1 is scummy - but that doesn't mean waffling away the entire Day. Us being well into solid discussion is why he wanted to wait. If most agree on lynching Max/Zebra then we should drop it - lots of agreement probably means wrong track. Cynthia's 3-point voting train means we should look at Cynthia/Kunt b/c biggest contributors. New players should get a couple of days, but not contributing in final 24 hours should be red flag. If least active are still alive and lurking as ranks thin, they have less excuse to be silent.
LinkWonders what was bad about how dumb theory was presented? Says bigfan's Town-read on Liucci is flawed b/c playstyle isn't the best reason to suspect - people can change. Also voting Cynthia for wanting to be punctual is silly. See's Liucci's rationale for voting him as bandwagon-y b/c seemingly no build-up from it. FOSes him. Rules out Mikey/Stacey for voting as new, Max/Zebra are everyone's policy lynches. Giving bigfan a D1 pass, and wants to for Liucci as well despite FOS. No reason to suspect Kunt/Cynthia but is eyeing them as active, which leaves me/Codex. Votes Codex b/c where is he? What does he have to say about Kunt's/Cynthia's comments?
LinkNotes he was questioned by total of two people, only one actually voted him. Wouldn't say he wasn't given benefit of doubt but they did both say he should know better.
LinkRefutes bigfan - again, assumptions based on playstyle doesn't work.
LinkCodexQuestions why bigfan would be considered good scum. To Az: What's going to happen when people show up? Has exam on the 20th. Plus, Cynthia answers.
LinkNew players are good scum, but slightly less new players are even better? Tells bigfan he seems new enough to be told in Mafia QT to hammer and be able to get away with it b/c "new". Claims vanilla -
but is he joking?
LinkCan't contribute until exam done, but will have 24 hours+ after that. Unvotes Kunt.
LinkMaxTakes offense to him + Zebra being expendable RE: Cynthia's own answers. Suggests some of us could use warmup b/c first game since maybe summer.
LinkCynthia answers.
LinkTo Kunt; You're still helpful for town even as scum b/c seem to think that scum role is to simply protect yourself, even if that means bussing own teammates.
LinkPoints out Cynthia didn't vote him/Zebra after giving her answers, suggests whether he creates new ideas isn't conducive to scum-finding. Could be most convincing, but that is dangerous if successful and he's scum. Also suggests we should consider everyone scum until they convince otherwise - find town in a group of scum rather than scum in a group of town.
LinkSays activity level is something to consider, rather than a pass.
LinkStaceyFeels lost trying to read new terms in game, and wonders if he too gets free pass from Codex. lol
LinkSays he's been reading MS all day, unsure how much he can contribute yet.
LinkIs type of person who listens to everyone then makes decision, and is better at answering questions than posing them. Will be more active in another 3 hours once home. Notes that we seem to be basing guesses based on past play, thinks that flawed. States he would change gameplay slightly (not enough to cause suspicion) if he knew that past play would be used against him. Mikey, Az, me, and bigfan seem most sketchy right now.
LinkMePoints out that we've made RVS stop by stopping our vote-scattering. Plus, Cynthia answers, and notes Codex's "claim" right below.
LinkOffers Stacey MafiaScum link to help with terminology.
LinkPoints out Liucci scum-aggression in Cynthia's game, Codex as helpful Townie in past game.
LinkPoints out difference between Liucci and Invince personalities. And that Liucci's been scum past two games (is third likely? Hasn't yet happened in Pulse Mafia.)
LinkCurious RE: Kunt's voting Liucci. Don't like Az suspicion based on Cynthia answers because own answers not much different, and not seeing scum-tell. Unvotes Az, wants to take closer look at everyone.
LinkNoticed bigfan's being cool with being lynched if it happens.
LinkMikeyNot sure who to vote for, but new players might be scum, so don't rule them out - should not be excuse.
Link
Cynthia is probably my strongest Town read for the simple fact that the points that she's raised have been challenging our overused habits of gameplay, and I believe her intentions to be for the better. I also feel like pushing out of RVS early benefits Town much more than scum, and don't think she'd take the risk at it if she were scum.
I have no real reason to suspect Kunt as being scum, either. For some reason it's tough to single out any one thing as pointing to a Town read, though. I will say I'm legit curious as to what he thinks might be "off" about Cynthia, though. I guess I'd say he gets a Town read based more on a pattern of gameplay thus far than for any one specific thing contained within.
Note the above on this page for me having a Town read on bigfan...but having said that, Cynthia's right - there isn't a lot of meat underneath his posts. He also seems prone to being defensive, though - he and Az have probably been the two most defensive so far, easily. For now, though, I just think his play leans more unskilled than it does outright scummy.
In Liucci's Cynthia answers, he mentioned specifically that he'd be most content lynching "someone who he feels is difficult to read if they're scum". While most of our Cynthia answers relied on profiling to varying extents, this stands out to me as being the most predicated in profiling of all. Couple that with his aggressive gameplay (he's playing this
hard)...and it does make me wonder. I'm not confident in saying he's scum yet again, but I do think he particularly merits keeping an eye on.
Zebra hasn't offered much substantive in his posts, maybe a couple of moments and that's it. Despite his stated plan to improve upon his being low-key and non-aggressive, there hasn't really been follow-through yet. Null read.
Az. I didn't like his flavor theory, either, because it seemed like he gave it a bit more lip service than was probably necessary. But as I've said, I don't find fault in his Cynthia answers, and to his credit he has followed through with harder stances on that front. IDK. I want to say there's a Town read here, but it doesn't feel as solid. The flavor thing is the only thing that even remotely points to scummy, though (OMGUS).
Codex - hasn't said much, but did point out the flaw in giving active discussion drivers a pass. Don't like the Vanilla claim post - if he wasn't joking with it, that's problematic IMO. (Personally I think it's a very bad thing to joke about, though.) Null read, but a definite Town liability if he doesn't follow through and step up.
Max - less active, yes, but his points stand out more for them also being unconventional/being things we don't seem to think of often. Specifically: looking at how new players seem to be adjusting, pointing out scum strategy of bussing teammates out of self-preservation, and also the approach of finding Town in a field of potential scum rather than finding scum in a field of potential Town. If we take him at his word, though, that him making new points isn't conducive to scum-finding, then none of this exonerates him at all. Having said that, though, what really points to him being scum? On that one, I've got nothing.
Stacey - I don't see anything that really clashes with a general "new player" vibe.
Mikey - barely even here.
Oop, and there's me. Hi! :)
Right at this moment, the players I'm looking at most for voting for would be Zebra, Codex, and Mikey. Zebra and Codex have promised future input, and I'd like to see them follow through when they genuinely have time. (Plus Zebra has no votes rn anyway.) They won't get my vote right this second, but that
will change if they don't follow through. That leaves Mikey.
Vote: Mikey. I want to see what you have to offer.