Split The Genre?

[bamafan2102]

I was listening to Sara Evans on Debatable on SiriusXM today and she said something to the effect that maybe the genre should should split. New Country and Old Country.

So I pose this question to the board. What would you name the two genres, and who goes where after the split? Would songs "crossover between the two? Would you have two different charts?

I think this is fascinating to discuss. I will post my thoughts at some point.

[fearlessarrow]

I remember this topic coming up in singles threads but idk if there was a dedicated thread for this (I didn't really visit the Non-Singles section of the country forum until recently).

So I guess New Country and Old Country would be like kind of how Urban has mainstream Urban and Urban AC? There are songs that hit big on both (recently "That's What I Like" and "Redbone" were big hits on both formats) but those are in the minority. I'm thinking that's how country radio might work if it were split into two formats. Then I guess I'd name New Country "Mainstream Country" and Old Country as "Country AC" for a lack of better name that I can think of.

Mainstream Country would more or less consist of what country radio looks like right now, and Country AC would play more gold tracks (and maybe even recurrents) and new music from acts that are having a rougher time making their way up country radio right now, such as the Nash Icon artists (Reba, Martina McBride etc.), George Strait, Alan Jackson etc.

I would imagine people who can have hits on both charts would be people like Tim and Kenny (to a lesser extent Garth as well; and maybe even Brad or Keith - idk if his stuff fits in with "old country") who can send songs higher up the chart even in the current radio climate.

[zaclord 🌈]

I've thought about this before, but I think there are too many artists who would dip into both genres and it would get muddy. As of right now, not a ton of major labels have artists that would solely be promoted to the "old country" genre (excluding BMLG and Nash ICON), and the older artists that would get radio play on this genre are on smaller labels that may not have radio promotion teams. Now, if this were to become a thing, I could see other major labels picking up an imprint like Nash ICON where they sign these older acts and assign radio promo teams to them for radio play on the "old country" format.

They would have to split the charts and have one old country chart and one new country chart or else there would be no incentive for radio promotion and then no incentive to actually split the genre. It might work in the long run, but it would take some time to start making any sense.

[sabre14]

It's an interesting concept (one my dad has mentioned in the past to me) but it would never happen. Radio programmers and labels thrive off the money made off the music that is played on the charts and splitting the genre into different sub-genres, or "old" vs. "new", would be too radical to convince anyone in power to act on.

[someguy]

It's a concept that I remember being discussed here a long time ago, too. I would definitely be in favour of a HotAC vs CHR situation, where HotAC is a space for older pop artists to still get hits, but popular newer artists are played a lot on both. Someone like Carrie Underwood would probably get big hits on both formats, where someone like Reba could do better on the older country chart, and someone like Sam Hunt would probably get primarily played on the newer country formats. It is definitely something worth exploring, I think. Nash Icon tried a similar thing, but they are too small of a market to really take off as a separate format.

[Uncle Lumpy]

At one time I thought it could work. Now? I'm not so sure. I fear mainstream country alienated their core audience as they chased the younger demograph. Yes , I know there are a lot of folks that still enjoy todays country that enjoyed 90's country (or older) , but I feel fairly certain those folks are a minority. Older or traditional country still sells amazing well when given the opportunity, but those fans aren't discovering those artists on country radio. Country radio made a concerted effort to rid itself of that demo as they replaced them with the golden younger demo that the advertisers are searching for. Radio isn't there to sell music , they are there to sale advertisements. Even though I've always thought it was flawed logic , radio doesn't seem to want an audience that skews older , even though , I suspect they have more disposable income. By the time the Bro Country fad came along , mainstream country was letting their once core audience know , they didn't really care if they were listening or not in my opinion.

I listen to basically two country oldies stations while at work but that has more to do with lack of options in my work truck. Nashville has a new station 98.3 The Big Legend that I listen to at work , which isn't bad per se , but its pretty much a strictly 90's oldies station. They play nothing even remotely new , just the big mega hits from 20 to 30 years ago and Holy Christ they love Shania! I'm still a big music junkie , and pretty much constantly have my ear out for new (good) music , so I'm never going to get excited about a format that is excluding Chris Stapleton, Midland or Sons Of The Palomino etc etc. It would take an amazing format for me to put away my ipod during my commute or sitting around the house. If Country radio had split 5 or 10 years ago , they could have kept both demo's , but I believe the vast majority of the older demo that would have supported still hearing new George Strait & Joe Nichols records on their radios have found other avenues.

[Deleted]

I'd be for it. But, like others, I don't see the market (with actual musical output) being large enough, yet. Pittsburgh just started a new oldies country station and my radio dial hasn't moved since then and we're talking songs from the 50s through the early 2000s. It could be at stations like that that older artists start releasing their newer music and then maybe a whole new market opens up. I don't know, but I certainly wouldn't be against it.

[kw9461]

I'm all for it, but it would have to happen organically. If a few PD's in multi-station markets (if your not the top country station in the market, might as well try something) decided to brand themselves as "Real Country" or something to that effect, it might have a chance. It wouldn't have to be just the Stapleton/Midland's of the world that you feature, there's plenty of room for Chesney, McGraw, Kip Moore, and so forth. And if Sam Hunt, Kelsea Ballerini, or Thomas Rhett decide to release something with country elements in it, there's room for that too. It would only work if it felt fresh, just with a different focus. Plus you could go back to the old way of programming where the biggest songs got 60-70 spins per week, instead of 90-100. The biggest obstacle is that there is so much syndication at radio nowadays, it would be hard to keep to the format consistent across all time slots. I think it could work though, I just don't see anyone trying in the near future.

[Uncle Lumpy]

Jul 28, 2017 11:55:24 GMT -5 kw9461 said:

I'm all for it, but it would have to happen organically. If a few PD's in multi-station markets (if your not the top country station in the market, might as well try something) decided to brand themselves as "Real Country" or something to that effect, it might have a chance. It wouldn't have to be just the Stapleton/Midland's of the world that you feature, there's plenty of room for Chesney, McGraw, Kip Moore, and so forth. And if Sam Hunt, Kelsea Ballerini, or Thomas Rhett decide to release something with country elements in it, there's room for that too.

Agreed. For the most part. Though I can't imagine your second list of artists having any interest in appealing to my utopian radio format. Which ties in to something I wanted to add to my above post but then I started rambling . I remember being so excited when the Nash Icon thing got to rolling and a local station switched over. The head of Nash Icon claimed the format wouldn't cater to Bro-Country . But literally every morning as I climbed in my car and without fail they would be playing either "Summer Jam" or "That's How We Roll". I gave it like 2 weeks before I finally gave up on them.

[kw9461]

Jul 28, 2017 13:12:43 GMT -5 Uncle Lumpy said:

Jul 28, 2017 11:55:24 GMT -5 kw9461 said:

I'm all for it, but it would have to happen organically. If a few PD's in multi-station markets (if your not the top country station in the market, might as well try something) decided to brand themselves as "Real Country" or something to that effect, it might have a chance. It wouldn't have to be just the Stapleton/Midland's of the world that you feature, there's plenty of room for Chesney, McGraw, Kip Moore, and so forth. And if Sam Hunt, Kelsea Ballerini, or Thomas Rhett decide to release something with country elements in it, there's room for that too.

Agreed. For the most part. Though I can't imagine your second list of artists having any interest in appealing to my utopian radio format. Which ties in to something I wanted to add to my above post but then I started rambling . I remember being so excited when the Nash Icon thing got to rolling and a local station switched over. The head of Nash Icon claimed the format wouldn't cater to Bro-Country . But literally every morning as I climbed in my car and without fail they would be playing either "Summer Jam" or "That's How We Roll". I gave it like 2 weeks before I finally gave up on them.

You're right, that's definitely the fear. It's hard to have a format without the biggest stars, and that's why I doubt this will happen. In a perfect world those artists could push their more traditional sounding music to the new format, leaving their pop music for mainstream country (I'm thinking more along the lines of Luke or Blake here, I doubt Hunt has anything country to offer). I remember thinking that NASH Icon could be on to something, but it never lived up to its billing.

[mellongraig]

Jul 29, 2017 9:57:11 GMT -5 kw9461 said:

Jul 28, 2017 13:12:43 GMT -5 Uncle Lumpy said:

Agreed. For the most part. Though I can't imagine your second list of artists having any interest in appealing to my utopian radio format. Which ties in to something I wanted to add to my above post but then I started rambling . I remember being so excited when the Nash Icon thing got to rolling and a local station switched over. The head of Nash Icon claimed the format wouldn't cater to Bro-Country . But literally every morning as I climbed in my car and without fail they would be playing either "Summer Jam" or "That's How We Roll". I gave it like 2 weeks before I finally gave up on them.

You're right, that's definitely the fear. It's hard to have a format without the biggest stars, and that's why I doubt this will happen. In a perfect world those artists could push their more traditional sounding music to the new format, leaving their pop music for mainstream country (I'm thinking more along the lines of Luke or Blake here, I doubt Hunt has anything country to offer). I remember thinking that NASH Icon could be on to something, but it never lived up to its billing.

Didn't the Newcap stations in Alberta rebrand it as Real Country last November? Some of their stations do play old country, but all of it was just a name change more than anything else like the New Country branding outside Alberta.