Taylor Swift - "Look What You Made Me Do"

[matty005]

Sept 19, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

Whoever thought it was a good idea to release RFI as a promo just a couple of weeks after the release of LWYMMD should have been fired, because that was a marketing failure. They should have released the promo about a month or so BEFORE the album drop, not weeks after the lead single is just released. Because of this awful marketing strategy, they left the door open for LWYMMD to fall fast on sales, streaming, and fail to make the top 5 on radio as well. Which also leads for close competitors like Cardi B, Logic, Sam Smith, and yes I'll say it, Post freaking Malone to dethrone Taylor at #1. It'd have been much better to release a promo, or a second single a couple of months after LWYMMD was released and a few weeks before the album officially drops. I agree with pretty much everything Az Paynter has said, and he is right though, give LWYMMD some breathing room, don't just let it implode by releasing a new song months before the album even drops.

It's almost like they don't care about any of those things you listed...because they don't (and really not that important in the big picture).

[MilesW1998]

Sept 19, 2017 9:20:29 GMT -5 matty005 said:

Sept 19, 2017 9:13:33 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

Whoever thought it was a good idea to release RFI as a promo just a couple of weeks after the release of LWYMMD should have been fired, because that was a marketing failure. They should have released the promo about a month or so BEFORE the album drop, not weeks after the lead single is just released. Because of this awful marketing strategy, they left the door open for LWYMMD to fall fast on sales, streaming, and fail to make the top 5 on radio as well. Which also leads for close competitors like Cardi B, Logic, Sam Smith, and yes I'll say it, Post freaking Malone to dethrone Taylor at #1. It'd have been much better to release a promo, or a second single a couple of months after LWYMMD was released and a few weeks before the album officially drops. I agree with pretty much everything Az Paynter  has said, and he is right though, give LWYMMD some breathing room, don't just let it implode by releasing a new song months before the album even drops.

It's almost like they don't care about any of those things you listed...because they don't (and really not that important in the big picture).

Yeah, because they don't care about the money that they can get from the sales, streams and radio deals that come out of it.  :sip2:

[matty005]

Sept 19, 2017 9:22:10 GMT -5 MilesW1998 said:

Sept 19, 2017 9:20:29 GMT -5 matty005 said:

It's almost like they don't care about any of those things you listed...because they don't (and really not that important in the big picture).

Yeah, because they don't care about the money that they can get from the sales, streams and radio deals that come out of it.  :sip2:

Small peanuts compared to album sales, tour and building her brand.

This song is everywhere. And everyone has been talking about it. Except for the people here who follow the charts on here, most won't have any clue if this reaches 1 or not. This song has done it's job and much, much more.

[theflying]

The song has LITERALLY done it's job and much, much more.

While you get caught up in whether the current #1 song in the country that has a thousand bullet on pop radio will "fulfill its potential", I see an artist that has TWO songs killing it right now simultaneously in the weeks leading up to an album release.

More artists don't do this because *they can't get away with it*.

Leave it to Pulse to act like TWO hit songs at the same time is BAD. THAT'S what you're saying.

[Caviar]

RFI has already fallen out of the top 20 on the Hot 100. I think it dropped from 5-17? Not a cute look but not a big deal since it was the first week. However LWYMMD is about to drop from the top spot next week and likely out of the top 10 in a month, on the Hot 100. NOT A GOOD LOOK

[theflying]

1. There's nothing to indicate LWYMMD would be out of the top 10 in a month. We can quote each other on this.

2. Katy Perry didn't have the material and made bad single choices and a whole lot of other mistakes. There's no comparison right now.

3. Out of the top 10 on radio by New Years? What? I'm sorry, is this a two-track EP she's about to release?

This is Pulse being Pulse at the most Pulse it could be.

We talked ad-nausea about how LWYMMD isn't Shake It Off, nor was it meant to be, nor will it perform that way.

All of the "bad things" anyone here is implying ALL come down to the line of logic that if a song didn't stay at #1 for ten weeks it wasn't a hit. That's ALL it is.

[Exclusive]

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 9:41:53 GMT -5 theflying said:

Leave it to Pulse

Leave it to you to make another comment like this.

Please stop saying things like that. You are a part of Pulse, did you realize this? Do you also not realize that everyone on here is not the same? Do you realize how annoying it is to see you post this every single time you get upset? You're worse than a damn broken record with this saying. Even if I agree with you I can't help but get extremely angry at you for posting shit like this. Get off of your damn high horse and start acting like you a part of a community, not some loner who thinks they know better than everyone else here. Because frankly, you're not and you don't.

[Caviar]

So a song debuting with over 100k points to not even crossing 40k 3 weeks later shouldn’t be a concern? This has been the weakest #1 in over a year.

[theflying]

Sept 19, 2017 11:12:36 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Sept 19, 2017 9:41:53 GMT -5 theflying said:

Leave it to Pulse

Leave it to you to make another comment like this.

Please stop saying things like that. You are a part of Pulse, did you realize this? Do you also not realize that everyone on here is not the same? Do you realize how annoying it is to see you post this every single time you get upset? You're worse than a damn broken record with this saying. Even if I agree with you I can't help but get extremely angry at you for posting s**t like this. Get off of your damn high horse and start acting like you a part of a community, not some loner who thinks they know better than everyone else here. Because frankly, you're not and you don't.

It's really nice outside this time of year

[Dylan :)]

I don't get the point in saying the charts don't matter outside of a couple people on here, and everyone else won't even realise where it peaked. I think some people underestimate how popular the charts are and how big they are for stan culture. And even if it was only a few people on here who really cared about the charts, what is wrong with that? Can people still not discuss it and talk about the issues they have with rollout relating to the chart as that is what they care about? I see that in all areas. My family members who support soccer refer to the team and them as "us" as if they are part of the team, but that is fine because that is what they are interested in. At the end of the day this is a chart website and people shouldn't be shamed for liking the charts more than most or for considering chart runs really important. There are some people who come off as if sport to them is a life or death matter, shouldn't chart people be allowed to do the same?

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 11:26:54 GMT -5 theflying said:

Sept 19, 2017 11:12:36 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Leave it to you to make another comment like this.

Please stop saying things like that. You are a part of Pulse, did you realize this? Do you also not realize that everyone on here is not the same? Do you realize how annoying it is to see you post this every single time you get upset? You're worse than a damn broken record with this saying. Even if I agree with you I can't help but get extremely angry at you for posting s**t like this. Get off of your damn high horse and start acting like you a part of a community, not some loner who thinks they know better than everyone else here. Because frankly, you're not and you don't.

It's really nice outside this time of year

I'm sorry, but I'm not the one who continuously logs in to a site where apparently everyone acts a certain way that I don't like.

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 11:29:38 GMT -5 Codex said:

Au$tin What do you think? This type of chart run isn't common, so I don't know which other song could be used for forecasting. Maybe CSTF?

Actually, I strongly agree. This song's run is very similar to "Born This Way" so far, which only reached number one on CHR due to it being a weak period of songs going in and out of the top spot rather quickly. "S&M," "Fuck You," "F**kin' Perfect," and "Born This Way" were all one week number ones sandwiched between "Tonight (I'm Fuckin' You)" and "E.T.."

This could in theory pull that off, but the competition is a bit stiff right now, especially if "...Ready for It?" does indeed cannibalize it, which that does appear to be happening here (though not so much anywhere else). The harsh reality is that this is the second fastest falling bullet on the chart right now. Second only to "What Lovers Do," which is only falling so hard because the bullet is adjusting to the second full week. Around this we have "Slow Hands," "Strip That Down," and "Feel It Still" that all would be vying for the number one spot when this gets up there, and potentially all three of them could keep Taylor from getting any higher than number four. She might have a chance of peaking higher if she is able to hold on long enough to "Slow Hands" and/or "Strip That Down" to fall below it, but that's if this has a normal shelf life, which I wouldn't hold my breath on happening. Also, even if it did, by the time that could happen, "1-800-273-8255" and "Too Good at Goodbyes" will be up in the area posing a threat anyway (and potentially "What Lovers Do").

So, yeah, by the time the album comes around, this will probably already be on its way out and "...Ready for It?" will likely get stuck in some weird limbo area in the lower teens unless we get actual second single confirmation, which even then I doubt it would be much higher than the upper teens. While that's not necessarily a bad thing since Taylor is going to move albums hit single or not, it is a very strange strategy and would mark the first time since "Mine" that Taylor had an album release without a top ten on pop at the same time. Again, not problematic, just weird.

[theflying]

Born This Way has remained pretty damn culturally relevant as far as pop songs go -- and it was MASSIVE for securing Gaga's legion of fans and for launching that album.

It was also a courageous song to release, to kick off an album with. It really helped to completely break down the walls of addressing LGBT people in mainstream pop radio.

You're talking about numbers -- I have no idea how in anyway it didn't do its job -- unless, AGAIN, the only metric is that a song has to be #1 for ten weeks or something.

LWYMMD wishes it had the cultural relevancy and impact of that massive song.

[Sambalada]

Sept 19, 2017 10:51:30 GMT -5 theflying said:

All of the "bad things" anyone here is implying ALL come down to the line of logic that if a song didn't stay at #1 for ten weeks it wasn't a hit. That's ALL it is.

People are not saying it's not a hit, the song is a huge success and I'm sure they all agreed about that. The thing is, this song could've been bigger if it weren't for the release of "Ready For It". "Ready For It" should not have been released this early, it eats up the potential this song has to be an even bigger hit. Learning from the past, a second single coming off a huge lead single with longevity are destined to be a big hit as well.

Just... take it this way, which one is better, having an "Only Girl"/"What's My Name" run in which one song eat up the other's chart performance or having two "Umbrella"-sized huge hits one after the other?

[Az Paynter]

Nice to see someone actually gets it. :sip2:

[matty005]

Sept 19, 2017 12:06:37 GMT -5 Sambalada said:

Sept 19, 2017 10:51:30 GMT -5 theflying said:

All of the "bad things" anyone here is implying ALL come down to the line of logic that if a song didn't stay at #1 for ten weeks it wasn't a hit. That's ALL it is.

People are not saying it's not a hit, the song is a huge success and I'm sure they all agreed about that. The thing is, this song could've been bigger if it weren't for the release of "Ready For It". "Ready For It" should not have been released this early, it eats up the potential this song has to be an even bigger hit. Learning from the past, a second single coming off a huge lead single with longevity are destined to be a big hit as well.

Just... take it this way, which one is better, having an "Only Girl"/"What's My Name" run in which one song eat up the other's chart performance or having two "Umbrella"-sized huge hits one after the other?

I think most people agree with this - the release of, "Ready for It,"hurt this single. But the counter argument for that was it was worth it. There is no doubt you're right - this will hurt it. But my guess is all parties weighed the options and realized it didn't matter.

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 11:55:42 GMT -5 theflying said:

Born This Way has remained pretty damn culturally relevant as far as pop songs go -- and it was MASSIVE for securing Gaga's legion of fans and for launching that album.

It was also a courageous song to release, to kick off an album with. It really helped to completely break down the walls of addressing LGBT people in mainstream pop radio.

You're talking about numbers -- I have no idea how in anyway it didn't do its job -- unless, AGAIN, the only metric is that a song has to be #1 for ten weeks or something.

LWYMMD wishes it had the cultural relevancy and impact of that massive song.

Has it really remained relevant? Other than the Halftime show performance, I haven't heard that song in public in years. Was the song the reason for Born This Way's massive opening, or was it the $0.99 sale at Amazon?

It was courageous, I'll give you that. Wait, it "completely broke down the walls"? Then where are the slew of LGBT songs and artists?

"You're talking about numbers" - correct! We like to do that in a community centered around the discussion of the damn charts. "I have no idea how in anyway it didn't do its job" - did anyone claim otherwise? "unless, AGAIN, the only metric is that a song has to be #1 for ten weeks or something" - Now you're just taking words and manipulating them into some crazy rhetoric that you think we all have.

"LWYMMD wishes it had the cultural relevancy and impact of that massive song." - This sentence just wasn't necessary.



Look. We are fans of charts here. We love to see our favorite songs max out their potential on the charts. "...Ready for It?" specifically is making sure "Look What You Made Me Do" isn't going to do that, and that makes chart fans upset. It does not mean people don't think it's not a success. You are the one implying that.

[Enigma.]

It's a huge success but there's no denying that with (potentially) lacking in longevity it pales in comparison to her older hits such as You Belong with Me, We Are Never..., Shake It Off and Blank Space so if I MUST predict I'd say it'll end up being her least remembered #1. At this point, things can change of course.

I think they did two mistakes:

1) Released RFI so quickly
2) The video came out too soon. If it had come out like this week, it'd been a second talking point for the single. Now there was only one and it came and went.

[Fat Ass Kelly Price]

Sept 19, 2017 12:11:20 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Sept 19, 2017 11:55:42 GMT -5 theflying said:

Born This Way has remained pretty damn culturally relevant as far as pop songs go -- and it was MASSIVE for securing Gaga's legion of fans and for launching that album.

It was also a courageous song to release, to kick off an album with. It really helped to completely break down the walls of addressing LGBT people in mainstream pop radio.

You're talking about numbers -- I have no idea how in anyway it didn't do its job -- unless, AGAIN, the only metric is that a song has to be #1 for ten weeks or something.

LWYMMD wishes it had the cultural relevancy and impact of that massive song.

Has it really remained relevant? Other than the Halftime show performance, I haven't heard that song in public in years. Was the song the reason for Born This Way's massive opening, or was it the $0.99 sale at Amazon?

It was courageous, I'll give you that. Wait, it "completely broke down the walls"? Then where are the slew of LGBT songs and artists?

"You're talking about numbers" - correct! We like to do that in a community centered around the discussion of the damn charts. "I have no idea how in anyway it didn't do its job" - did anyone claim otherwise? "unless, AGAIN, the only metric is that a song has to be #1 for ten weeks or something" - Now you're just taking words and manipulating them into some crazy rhetoric that you think we all have.

"LWYMMD wishes it had the cultural relevancy and impact of that massive song." - This sentence just wasn't necessary.



Look. We are fans of charts here. We love to see our favorite songs max out their potential on the charts. "...Ready for It?" specifically is making sure "Look What You Made Me Do" isn't going to do that, and that makes chart fans upset. It does not mean people don't think it's not a success. You are the one implying that.

I don't want to take this too off topic, but the album was going to open massively regardless of the discount. Crossing 1 million? No. 700-800k? Absolutely. Because of the song? Probably not. Because of hype? Absolutely.

[theflying]

Just... take it this way, which one is better, having an "Only Girl"/"What's My Name" run in which one song eat up the other's chart performance or having two "Umbrella"-sized huge hits one after the other?

I think I need to be more unequivocal.

THIS. THIS SCENARIO. RIGHT NOW. THIS IS BETTER. YES. TWO HITS AT THE SAME TIME IS BETTER THAN 1, WHEN 1 IS ALREADY A MASSIVE #1 HUGE SMASH. THAT'S what you're saying is not good.

THAT is better even if the song only peaks with 16,000 spins instead of 18,000.

I think most people agree with this - the release of, "Ready for It,"hurt this single. But the counter argument for that was it was worth it. There is no doubt you're right - this will hurt it. But my guess is all parties weighed the options and realized it didn't matter.

Bingo.

This is the reaction Pulse would have had had they been foretold of Beyonce surprise releasing an album. They would have thought it was absolutely insane with no promo, no hype, and no song on the radio.

The landscape is changing. The tactics are changing. Not everything is about one smash, next, one smash, next, one smash, next.

Has [Born This Way] really remained relevant?

Uh, yes? Especially among its targeted demographic. People know and remember that song -- it wasn't a random, forgotten #1 hit. It was quintessential to her brand and to her fanbase.

It was courageous, I'll give you that. Wait, it "completely broke down the walls"? Then where are the slew of LGBT songs and artists?

Huh? It removed the stigma of openly talking about and advocating for LGBT people in the lyrics of massive pop radio songs.

Look. We are fans of charts here. We love to see our favorite songs max out their potential on the charts. "...Ready for It?" specifically is making sure "Look What You Made Me Do" isn't going to do that, and that makes chart fans upset. It does not mean people don't think it's not a success. You are the one implying that.

You have it backwards, dude. Charts are traditional metrics for success. Who cares about just the numbers? Why would you or ANYONE care about that? The emotional investment you have it about the SUCCESS of a SONG or ARTIST.

But if you've limited your metric of success to ONLY how songs do on the charts, you've twisted the whole point of this. A song peaking at 18,000 spins doesn't mean anything more than a song peaking with 16,000 spins unless you're using it to gauge success. But not every single release is aiming for that.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

I'd say the song has already reached its full potential. People who know it know it. People who love it love it. People who don't don't. What more is there to do? Everyone knows she has an album coming out, the video continues to get views, its already been at number one. They could move on to Ready For It and it wouldn't hurt the album campaign at all - as long as people don't pull the "single 1 flopped" card. I'm sure they would try.

[theflying]

In fact, I'm going to support my argument one step further by offering an unusual point: I think, broadly speaking, we all sense that this is NOT as well liked by the public, DESPITE the massive numbers it's posting. There's no way to officially gauge this -- it's just a "feeling". But we don't know that for sure yet.

But that's a metric of success the charts MAY NOT TELL YOU.

It's also a metric of success for the song that may not matter. If the album opens huge, and the second single is huge, then it didn't matter.

[g8erboi]

This song did its job. It was a number one hit and the music video was impactful. I'm glad they released Ready For It when they did. It's a much better song anyway.

Not every song needs to be a 12+ week #1 to be considered a smash.

[NeRD]

Sept 19, 2017 12:11:51 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

It's a huge success but there's no denying that with (potentially) lacking in longevity it pales in comparison to her older hits such as You Belong with Me, We Are Never..., Shake It Off and Blank Space so if I MUST predict I'd say it'll end up being her least remembered #1. At this point, things can change of course.

I think they did two mistakes:

1) Released RFI so quickly
2) The video came out too soon. If it had come out like this week, it'd been a second talking point for the single. Now there was only one and it came and went.

Regardless, she was able to get a another #1 song more than five years after her debut. Not everyone can say that.

[tinawina]

Sept 19, 2017 12:44:40 GMT -5 theflying said:

In fact, I'm going to support my argument one step further by offering an unusual point: I think, broadly speaking, we all sense that this is NOT as well liked by the public, DESPITE the massive numbers it's posting. There's no way to officially gauge this -- it's just a "feeling". But we don't know that for sure yet.

But that's a metric of success the charts MAY NOT TELL YOU.

It's also a metric of success for the song that may not matter. If the album opens huge, and the second single is huge, then it didn't matter.

Well, sort of.

She's destined to open big album sales wise no matter what, the danger is what happens three weeks or so after the album drops and there is no strong radio presence? That's the concern surrounding this burning out too quickly... it may hurt the album's longevity if there is a lag getting another single up the charts once the hardcore fans have purchased.

She's a big enough star that she can make a ton of appearances and stay super visible over the holidays so it might work out fine. The thing is, radio is currently playing two of her songs so she might not be able to push a third one up as quickly, especially at a time of year where there will be a lot of competition from other big name acts.

It's worth speculating about anyway. Taylor will make her coins either way so there is no need to get so upset about the discussion IMO.

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 12:39:48 GMT -5 theflying said:

Look. We are fans of charts here. We love to see our favorite songs max out their potential on the charts. "...Ready for It?" specifically is making sure "Look What You Made Me Do" isn't going to do that, and that makes chart fans upset. It does not mean people don't think it's not a success. You are the one implying that.

You have it backwards, dude. Charts are traditional metrics for success. Who cares about just the numbers? Why would you or ANYONE care about that? The emotional investment you have it about the SUCCESS of a SONG or ARTIST.

Say it with me, really slowly. Are you ready?

This.

Website.

Is.

A.

Community.

Centered.

Around.

Chart.

Stats.

We.

Are.

Not.

The.

Norm.

But.

The.

Discussion.

Around.

Here.

Will.

Be.

Centered.

Around.

That.

Because.

That's.

The.

Point.

Of.

This.

Entire.

Message.

Board.

This.

Does.

Not.

Mean.

Anything.

Other.

Than.

That.

What is so hard to grasp about that concept?

Sept 19, 2017 12:39:48 GMT -5 theflying said:

But if you've limited your metric of success to ONLY how songs do on the charts, you've twisted the whole point of this. A song peaking at 18,000 spins doesn't mean anything more than a song peaking with 16,000 spins unless you're using it to gauge success. But not every single release is aiming for that.

When you are specifically talking about chart stats, that indeed does matter. When you are talking in general terms of a song's success, it's only a small fraction. This website tends to focus on the former when you are in the radio section of the site. If you go elsewhere, you will find the later to be the main focus. As long as you have been here, how has that not gotten through to you?

[theflying]

I just think it's bizarre.

They allowed radio to play RFI.

And everyone is acting like ZOMGMGMGOMGOGMGOMGOMG without even considering why they would ever do such a preposterous thing!

She's a big enough star that she can make a ton of appearances and stay super visible over the holidays so it might work out fine. The thing is, radio is currently playing two of her songs so she might not be able to push a third one up as quickly, especially at a time of year where there will be a lot of competition from other big name acts.

There are people whose *literal job* it is to consider these obvious things.

[tinawina]

Sept 19, 2017 12:59:49 GMT -5 theflying said:

There are people whose *literal job* it is to consider these obvious things.

Yes, and we do it too, for fun. Obvious or not. We speculate about it for our own amusement FOR EVERYONE, not just your fav.

Calm down. Maybe you shouldn't post here if you are going to get so upset.

[theflying]

What is so hard to grasp about that concept?

Because it's not true and you're pretending to yourself. This community is about the emotional investment we have toward pop (or whatever kind of) music, the songs, the artists, and their career accomplishments.

There's a reason we don't certify songs for having crossed the 18,000 spin mark.

Because that's an arbitrary metric for success. A lot of metrics of success are arbitrary. But some of them are more arbitrary than others, and some are more industry-recognized than others.


We debate this as the song has over a thousand bullet, is #1 in the country, and #2 on iTunes. I love coming to Pulse -- and yet if someone wanted to parody Pulse, this would be exactly the conversation to look at.

Yes, and we do it too, for fun. Obvious or not. We speculate about it for our own amusement FOR EVERYONE, not just your fav.

Calm down. Maybe you shouldn't post here if you are going to get so upset.

This whole discussion is just for fun. If you're not enjoying it than there's many other threads, you know.