Taylor Swift - "Look What You Made Me Do"

[Love Plastic Love]

I pretty much knew this argument would happen. It comes around for basically every big debut by a major artist that somehow doesn't have the longevity that Pulse expects. And, I can see why to a certain extent, but as I said somewhere else before, longevity isn't always the only indication of success especially for songs that are ultra mega fast gainers. I think BTW was the fastest gainer ever for awhile and this may have been as well. If you don't have a natural climb, your song won't have as much longevity because it basically hits its peak immediately.

Both are also a bit polarizing so I can see why they didn't naturally just stick around the charts forever. Well, I mean, this one hasn't quite peaked yet, but I wouldn't be terribly surprised if it does soonish. It doesn't spell disaster to me because I think she accomplished what she wanted with it and radio is literally chomping at the bit for her new single.

As for Born This Way's cultural relevance, I feel like some people understate what that song meant for a lot of people. Like, you get a lot of pop stars who are like "I LOVE THE GAYS BUY MY CD BTW." You get pop stars who do mildly fetish based pandering (IKAG and CFTS). You don't always get a pop star releasing a song like BTW which explicitly states something about LGBT+ rights especially when that can still make more conservative viewers and stations shy away from the song. I have 18 year old students who write about songs that mean a lot to them and a TON of them choose (without my prompting-I usually talk about Beyonce or Green Day as an example for the record ) Born This Way. I had one student say they cried at the Super Bowl when she sang the unedited version in front of an audience that some of which would love to take her rights away from her.

I also possibly hear it more than any of her other songs today-every Pride event I have been to plays it, I also hear it randomly at like...rando sporting events with their generic pop star mixes, they played it at our last football game and everyone was dancing.

I don't know. I feel like people are so focused on either disliking Gaga or disliking BTW that they really understate that it was a genuinely popular song that sold a ton worldwide (on par or better than songs considered her bigger hits) and does have some cultural relevance even today.

I foresee the same discussion happening with Taylor in a few years. Like, ultimately people will call it a flop because it didn't have longevity (no matter how much it sells or how much the cd sells) and fans will be like, but look at these numbers and look at its impact, but impact is hard to judge so no one will ever really agree lmao. So I guess I will see everyone for when this discussion happens again every six months for the rest of Pulse's existence.

[Deleted]

Sept 19, 2017 16:59:01 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Sept 19, 2017 16:21:51 GMT -5 upsidedown said:

I almost feel like this song is a #2 or #3 hit -- not a #1. Once the dust has settled, the impact just isn't there.

400 million Youtube views,been in top 5 on itunes since it's release most of the time in the top 2,Top 5 in airplay after only 3 weeks,I would consider it an impact.Not just in the Usa it's #1 on the Itunes worldwide chart.

snatched

[Kinney]

So, is she ever going to promote or...? Like, even an Instagram post or tweet would suffice at this point.

[Au$tin]

Sept 19, 2017 17:22:41 GMT -5 @kfercat said:

Sept 19, 2017 16:59:01 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

400 million Youtube views,been in top 5 on itunes since it's release most of the time in the top 2,Top 5 in airplay after only 3 weeks,I would consider it an impact.Not just in the Usa it's #1 on the Itunes worldwide chart.

snatched

Not even close because those stats actually have no relevancy when it comes to a song's overall impact. Think about all of the times you look at a list of #1 songs and just how many you don't remember. How many songs on a year end list from years back that you forgot about or don't even know.

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

Sept 19, 2017 19:35:16 GMT -5 Kinney said:

So, is she ever going to promote or...? Like, even an Instagram post or tweet would suffice at this point.

She's letting her music do all the talking and promo for her. She is one of the few who can do this for a certain amount of time.

Sadly, so many others have to tweet and Instagram their promo 24 hours a day and do multiple performances on multiple shows for weeks and weeks in order to still just barely scrap the bottom of the top 40.

[matty005]

Sept 19, 2017 20:07:27 GMT -5 🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾 said:

Sept 19, 2017 19:35:16 GMT -5 Kinney said:

So, is she ever going to promote or...? Like, even an Instagram post or tweet would suffice at this point.

She's letting her music do all the talking and promo for her. She is one of the few who can do this for a certain amount of time.

Sadly, so many others have to tweet and Instagram their promo 24 hours a day and do multiple performances on multiple shows for weeks and weeks in order to still just barely scrap the bottom of the top 40.

It's not sad. That's the only way to get your name out there. Taylor used to do it too lol.

[Deleted]

T Swift used to do a lot of promo, now she doesn't need to cause her name is out there everywhere
I mean she's done so many award show performances and other special events.
Like she's perfomred at the AMAs, Brits, Grammys, VMAs, BBMAs, CMAs, ACMs
For example:
Most of them were notable performances as well

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 19, 2017 12:43:53 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

I'd say the song has already reached its full potential. People who know it know it. People who love it love it. People who don't don't. What more is there to do? Everyone knows she has an album coming out, the video continues to get views, its already been at number one. They could move on to Ready For It and it wouldn't hurt the album campaign at all - as long as people don't pull the "single 1 flopped" card. I'm sure they would try.

Ok, now that I've actually had time to read through this entire discussion, I'm afraid I'm going to remain on the 'unpopular' side of it and I'll address some of the points:

-I think Born This Way has maintained its place in popular culture. Yeah, it's not heard as regularly as Just Dance or Poker Face but it's still recognizable and helped launch Gaga and her brand - whether it was for better or for worst, that's where it gets debatable but the song itself was a pop culture phenomenon. And whether it helped open the doors for gay artists in the mainstream or not, that's hard to say, because BTW wasn't the only LGBT-centric thing to come out and punch its way through. There has been more visibility of gay artists though. Whether that can be traced back to Lady Gaga or not, I don't think anyone can conclude that. I'd say it's more of a piece of the puzzle and the result has been gradual.

-I would say Look What You Made Me Do can be compared to Born This Way in a lot of ways, and its chart run is shaping up to look like that. On one hand, I'm of the opinion that at this point for Taylor, having a bigger album is better than having major hit singles and if LWYMMD ends up performing similar to BTW, it won't be among Taylor's biggest hits but it will help launch the album more than a Blank Space-type song would I think. Taking a step back from it all, there's obviously a reason why her people are opting to take this route rather than aiming to do what they did with her last era and stay in a more traditional lane. Why did they release Ready For It so soon when it wasn't even needed? It's not like they can use the Shape Of You/Castle On The Hill excuse since Ready For It is even more off-centre of Taylor's sound than LWYMMD is. I think it's awesome (from a chart perspective) that it's doing as well on pop radio as it is despite everything. I can't think of a similar instance where a promo single was released mere weeks after the main single and it did this well for a major artist on pop radio. But.... the move itself doesn't make sense.

So I guess the discussion being had is, was it a bad move or not? I tend to take the position that having more songs out before an album-release is better than not as it leads to more exposure, and gives people more to sample before buying. Whether that leads to one cannibalizing the sales/airplay of another, well, that's a whole different discussion - and seems to be the one happening here. But that discussion only matters (from a label/artist point of view) if they don't care about hits. It would seem silly for Taylor not to care about hits as she's been doing so well and getting them with such ease so far so why stop now?

I don't think there's necessarily a 'wrong' way if the album does well and at this point, well, it's anyone's guess. If LWYMMD and RFI both start dropping within the next month, and single #3 shows signs of struggling, then we can be concerned for the era. Until then, I think this song is doing fine and has accomplished what it set out to do.

[Az Paynter]

Sept 19, 2017 20:49:13 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

I don't think there's necessarily a 'wrong' way if the album does well and at this point, well, it's anyone's guess. If LWYMMD and RFI both start dropping within the next month, and single #3 shows signs of struggling, then we can be concerned for the era. Until then, I think this song is doing fine and has accomplished what it set out to do.

Here is my problem: LWYMMD is the single. RFI is not. Having two songs as hits prior to the album is a good thing, yes - resoundingly so. That said though, we're still roughly 2 months out from the album.

RFI was not released 'weeks' after LWYMMD, the gap is a mere 9 days. Barely more than a single week. IMO, it would have been fine for them to have just let the song feature in its promo spot, and give people something else to buzz about in the lead-up to the album rather than immediately blowing their wad and throwing it out there to the public and to radio.

My frustration stems from the slow-down on radio over the past week; we are far enough out that it's not second-week drop-off, the patterns are uneven. For this talk of 'oh, the bullet is still 1000+', a few days ago it was 2000+. One of two things is happening here: 1) This is an off-week, and it will regain stability moving forward. 2) This is about to hit a brick wall, and we've seen multiple times before how quickly the tides can turn. My concern is that this will be running on empty by next week, followed by the avalanche beginning in the beginning of October.

I don't believe such an occurrence would even be a possibility if it weren't for RFI out there to act as a parasite. Polarizing or not, if this was all radio had, this is what radio would continue to push, and without RFI this would still be #5 by now, but a lot closer in spin count to #4 (and by extension the top 3) without the risk of puttering out while everyone waits for the spin gap to close.

All the while, there is no indication that Taylor/her team is even considering bumping RFI up to main single status - which is where my biggest grievance comes in. If RFI is in the process of killing LWYMMD, then they had better be ready to go all in on RFI else have a huge splash prepared for a proper single #2 - because if 'Reputation' rolls around and she has no active big hit, then all this money/effort poured into LWYMMD to regain control of her narrative will have been wasted. LWYMMD imploding well before the album, all for a non-single? There goes that narrative, running away from them again. The media was already poised to take Taylor down, she trips over herself now the media will waste zero time crowing at her hubris.

[tinawina]

Sept 19, 2017 17:20:09 GMT -5 Love Plastic Love said:

I foresee the same discussion happening with Taylor in a few years. Like, ultimately people will call it a flop because it didn't have longevity (no matter how much it sells or how much the cd sells) and fans will be like, but look at these numbers and look at its impact, but impact is hard to judge so no one will ever really agree lmao. So I guess I will see everyone for when this discussion happens again every six months for the rest of Pulse's existence.

With this I don't think the song itself will have lasting impact, but the video will forever be iconic. It's a true pop culture moment IMO.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 19, 2017 21:09:12 GMT -5 Az Paynter said:

Sept 19, 2017 20:49:13 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

I don't think there's necessarily a 'wrong' way if the album does well and at this point, well, it's anyone's guess. If LWYMMD and RFI both start dropping within the next month, and single #3 shows signs of struggling, then we can be concerned for the era. Until then, I think this song is doing fine and has accomplished what it set out to do.

Here is my problem: LWYMMD is the single. RFI is not. Having two songs as hits prior to the album is a good thing, yes - resoundingly so. That said though, we're still roughly 2 months out from the album.

RFI was not released 'weeks' after LWYMMD, the gap is a mere 9 days. Barely more than a single week. IMO, it would have been fine for them to have just let the song feature in its promo spot, and give people something else to buzz about in the lead-up to the album rather than immediately blowing their wad and throwing it out there to the public and to radio.

My frustration stems from the slow-down on radio over the past week; we are far enough out that it's not second-week drop-off, the patterns are uneven. For this talk of 'oh, the bullet is still 1000+', a few days ago it was 2000+. One of two things is happening here: 1) This is an off-week, and it will regain stability moving forward. 2) This is about to hit a brick wall, and we've seen multiple times before how quickly the tides can turn. My concern is that this will be running on empty by next week, followed by the avalanche beginning in the beginning of October.

I don't believe such an occurrence would even be a possibility if it weren't for RFI out there to act as a parasite. Polarizing or not, if this was all radio had, this is what radio would continue to push, and without RFI this would still be #5 by now, but a lot closer in spin count to #4 (and by extension the top 3) without the risk of puttering out while everyone waits for the spin gap to close.

All the while, there is no indication that Taylor/her team is even considering bumping RFI up to main single status - which is where my biggest grievance comes in. If RFI is in the process of killing LWYMMD, then they had better be ready to go all in on RFI else have a huge splash prepared for a proper single #2 - because if 'Reputation' rolls around and she has no active big hit, then all this money/effort poured into LWYMMD to regain control of her narrative will have been wasted. LWYMMD imploding well before the album, all for a non-single? There goes that narrative, running away from them again. The media was already poised to take Taylor down, she trips over herself now the media will waste zero time crowing at her hubris.

I'm still not sure where the problem is though. Let's say LMYMMD were to stop gaining on pop radio within the next week and start actually losing spins, what's the problem in that? Presumably, the label would do whatever labels do when actively pushing a single and focus on Ready For It. A video might come, whatever other promo might happen, and then that becomes a Top 10 hit.

I get that, as a chart-centric forum, we're confused as to why they'd sabotage the longevity of the single but the song has hit #1, it has broken records, it has been heard by anyone even remotely interested in pop music, pop culture and/or Taylor Swift. Why continue to shove something with such a (very-likely) high burn rate continuously?

[Az Paynter]

Sept 19, 2017 21:35:28 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Why continue to shove something with such a (very-likely) high burn rate continuously?

If they knew LWYMMD was going to have a short shelf-life, why artificially shorten it even further by giving people an out? This is what everything I've been saying boils down to.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Keeps it fresh for when the album finally comes out?

[jughead]

'LWYMMD' is a number one hit.
It created buzz for the album.
I assume pre-orders for the album are big because of the buzz around this song and ...RFI?
If the album debuts with over a million (it isn't a sure thing but there is still a chance it might) then the label is able to accompish their goal whether or not this single were to have longevity.

[ificanthaveyou]

Honestly I agre with the above. If this can hit 5 weeks on top, then awesome. But I'm hoping she saves the major promo (AMAs possibly) for Ready For It and then third single at the Grammys

[Bwol]

^I really hope that she doesn't make RFI a single. Its quality is about as good as Welcome To New York IMO

It can't compare to songs like I Know Places and even How You Get The Girl.

IMO. This is just my opinion so please no one attack me lol.

[theflying]

Love Plastic Love and Rosen Nylund, thank you for those really excellent posts, and for being much more level headed than I was able to be. I concur 100% with everything you two have said.

Also LPL, thank you for expanding and articulating on BTW's cultural relevancy in a way that I had trouble explaining.

[Deleted]

Are we still on about that “the single is supposed to flop” conspiracy theory? Can we talk about the one where she white-Beyonce’d pop and that’s why women have been statistically less successful on the format recently? Way more fun.

[Enigma.]

Several critics and people on Twitter bashed the single so they are probably just reinventing the angle of the next single. She can't continue the LWYMMD route, people would find that tiresome (the single already was a bit with all those alleged references to her feuds). She's in very interesting position, could end up amazing and groundbreaking era or Katy Perry like critical bloodbath.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

I am not arguing this song will have major longevity or be remembered, but if I were to speculate, I wouldn't find an accurate comparison being two songs ("Gentlemen" and "Stupid Ho") whose sole success was Youtube. This has eaisly surpassed those on multiple fronts.

[Dylan :)]

I think the main problem with this is how big it could have been had it not been slowed down by Ready For It. Sure, it was huge, it still is huge, but what is wrong with wanting to be even bigger? As Snark Knight said, why are they ruining its potential to be even bigger than it is for a song that isn't even a single. I hope they keep Ready For It as a promo single because I think it will suffer the same fate as Castle On The Hill (still biggish but not as big as it could have been had it been given a proper push) if it is made an actual single. They should do no pushing for Ready For It so by the time the album is ready to come our, its run is over and they can begin a dedicated push for the real second single. This is almost similar to Be Alright but that never took off so it didn't hurt Dangerous Woman.

I think releasing Ready For It before the album was fine, the issue was how soon it was. The wait between Shake It Off and Out Of The Woods would have been more appropriate. Had it had the same take off, then they could push it as single #2. Or else it would get a decent response like Out Of The Woods, and then move onto the new single when the album comes out

[Az Paynter]

POP:
7 5 TAYLOR SWIFT Look What You Made Me Do 13061 11899 1162 74.993

+215 Spins
-68 Bullet
+0.820 Audience

HOT AC:
10 8 TAYLOR SWIFT Look What You Made Me Do 4291 3923 368 26.109

+31 Spins
-36 Bullet
-0.048 Audience

AC:
19 20 TAYLOR SWIFT Look What You Made Me Do 220 218 2 0.876

-3 Spins
-12 Bullet
-0.009 Audience

RHYTHMIC:
27 22 TAYLOR SWIFT Look What You Made Me Do 1465 1252 213 4.154

+32 Spins
-3 Bullet
+0.089 Audience

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 20, 2017 4:35:30 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

I think the main problem with this is how big it could have been had it not been slowed down by Ready For It. Sure, it was huge, it still is huge, but what is wrong with wanting to be even bigger?

The argument I have is, what's wrong with not wanting it to be even bigger?

[shrk314]

The Prechorus and bridge are still the only interesting parts of this song. The verses and chorus drone on an A minor chord, generating a sense of monotony. The repetetive melody and lack of bassline only make things worse. I do like the descending chords over the same melody in the pre chorus though.

[leonagwen]

Nothing wrong with a +215 update.

[divasummer]

Sept 20, 2017 4:35:30 GMT -5 Dylan :) said:

I think the main problem with this is how big it could have been had it not been slowed down by Ready For It. Sure, it was huge, it still is huge, but what is wrong with wanting to be even bigger? As Snark Knight said, why are they ruining its potential to be even bigger than it is for a song that isn't even a single. I hope they keep Ready For It as a promo single because I think it will suffer the same fate as Castle On The Hill (still biggish but not as big as it could have been had it been given a proper push) if it is made an actual single. They should do no pushing for Ready For It so by the time the album is ready to come our, its run is over and they can begin a dedicated push for the real second single. This is almost similar to Be Alright but that never took off so it didn't hurt Dangerous Woman.

I think releasing Ready For It before the album was fine, the issue was how soon it was. The wait between Shake It Off and Out Of The Woods would have been more appropriate. Had it had the same take off, then they could push it as single #2. Or else it would get a decent response like Out Of The Woods, and then move onto the new single when the album comes out

I see your point but there was already promo lined up with "Ready For It" being used which would cause people to buy the single when the song was heard.
The label is probably just thinking what is going to make the most money because actual music sales don't make as much money as they used to.
They have to take what they can get and if getting "Ready For It" going to ITunes and streaming services was the way to go, so be it.
"LWYMMD" hit num.1 and wasn't just going to collapse in a week because of it.
They probably knew radio would play both songs, maybe just not as much.

[SPRΞΞ]

Sept 20, 2017 7:18:25 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Nothing wrong with a +215 update.

could've been +216.

[Josh Spicer]

Sept 20, 2017 10:41:56 GMT -5 SPRΞΞ said:

Sept 20, 2017 7:18:25 GMT -5 leonagwen said:

Nothing wrong with a +215 update.

could've been +216.

[Taylor.]

Behind-the-scenes of the "Taylor Mountain" scene:



They added the entire music video in at the end, I guess so this will count for streaming lol

[MilesW1998]