Billboard Hot 100: 1/20/2018

[jayhawk1117]

Well End Game didn't gain that much from the MV. It's safe to say the era is pretty fucked

[85la]

^ It was the best-selling album last year, so I'm not sure if in any way it can be considered f**ked. But yeah, obviously one of her lesser performing albums, but it's about on par with Speak Now's performance, which wasn't considered a flop - a comparable level of album sales adjusted for time, and at least one pretty big top ten hit and a couple other moderate hits.

[Hugo!]

Jan 12, 2018 17:54:43 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Jan 12, 2018 10:12:57 GMT -5 Hugo! said:

And I was making a point about how it doesn't change anything.

What? Dude, I don't think you understood what conversation was even happening. People were discussing how the demographics of streaming had changed and pointed to how urban music went from being a huge album seller demographic to a huge streaming demographic. Then you got really defensive for some reason. No one was ever downplaying SPS album sales. The discussion was literally:

-Hey, urban music has really grown tremendously in streaming over the past few years.
-Yeah, and there's a correlation in the time that began happening and when urban music started to trickle off in physical album sales.

Then you got defensive saying urban music dominated album sales citing SPS when no one was ever discussing SPS sales. No one was even criticizing urban album sales at all. Just that they don't sell much physically anymore, and that's why they stream so well. The urban crowd switched from buying physical CDs to streaming the tracks online. No one claimed it was a problem. No one criticized urban music at all. It was an observation. Then you got defensive for no damn reason. Your defending against an argument that literally never existed.

I just stated that physical sales don't matter. That is an opinion of mine, you know?
Basically, at this point, I don't think that we should consider physical sales as the main indicator of how well an album is doing, and that if we're comparing sales from a few years back, they should be compared to SPS, not actual, physical sales. I know that those are weak for urban music and that that was hit the most, however it effected other genres too. I am not telling someone not to make an argument, far from it, I encourage everyone to do so.
However, in my opinion, Codex's arguments were invalid, as I don't think that currently physical sales matter at all.
However, the point that he was making was totally true and convincing, and that is why I got defensive.
And, the argument did not exist earlier, but I wanted to start one, as I thought that it was important to discuss the subject. I think that I will start a thread regarding it.

[mako]

Jan 12, 2018 17:31:08 GMT -5 GP said:

Jan 11, 2018 9:31:50 GMT -5 Golden Bluebird said:

*** = Dropped or added a format


7. (=) DUA LIPA - New Rules (118.217) (+3.191) ***

33. (+4) JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE - Filthy (56.353) (+6.863) ***

Hi, sorry to disturb, but what does it actually mean when they drop or add a format? What makes it happen?

I am pretty sure it's when a label sends a song to a radio format. 

[GP]

Thanks!

[jenglisbe]

Jan 13, 2018 2:20:08 GMT -5 85la said:

^ It was the best-selling album last year, so I'm not sure if in any way it can be considered f**ked. But yeah, obviously one of her lesser performing albums, but it's about on par with Speak Now's performance, which wasn't considered a flop - a comparable level of album sales adjusted for time, and at least one pretty big top ten hit and a couple other moderate hits.

F*cked in that it doesn't seem like the era is going to rebound. And yes it sold well, but that's off initial hype. If this era doesn't turn around, then it will really hurt her for her next album release.

[jayhawk1117]

Jan 13, 2018 2:20:08 GMT -5 85la said:

^ It was the best-selling album last year, so I'm not sure if in any way it can be considered f**ked. But yeah, obviously one of her lesser performing albums, but it's about on par with Speak Now's performance, which wasn't considered a flop - a comparable level of album sales adjusted for time, and at least one pretty big top ten hit and a couple other moderate hits.

with no real hit, 3 singles in is a very bad look considering her last album was the biggest pop album in decades

[NeRD]

Havana looking good.

[ry4n]

Jan 13, 2018 10:10:07 GMT -5 jayhawk1117 said:

Jan 13, 2018 2:20:08 GMT -5 85la said:

^ It was the best-selling album last year, so I'm not sure if in any way it can be considered f**ked. But yeah, obviously one of her lesser performing albums, but it's about on par with Speak Now's performance, which wasn't considered a flop - a comparable level of album sales adjusted for time, and at least one pretty big top ten hit and a couple other moderate hits.

with no real hit, 3 singles in is a very bad look considering her last album was the biggest pop album in decades

How was LWYMMD not a "real" hit?

[areyoureadytojump]

^It was a "golden turkey."

From jebsib:

The old expression was "Golden Turkey" - High Peak due to pent-up demand and / or serious Label pushing, creates a hit on paper, but fast fall leaves a disappointing legacy.

[jenglisbe]

Jan 13, 2018 10:47:15 GMT -5 ry4n said:

Jan 13, 2018 10:10:07 GMT -5 jayhawk1117 said:

with no real hit, 3 singles in is a very bad look considering her last album was the biggest pop album in decades

How was LWYMMD not a "real" hit?

It's a hit on a paper, for sure, but it isn't a hit that will have any sort of endurance. And it definitely helped kill her momentum for the album release.

Also, refer to "Golden turkey."

[Golden Bluebird]

kworb.net/airadio/

*** = Dropped or added a format

Overall AI (Top 20) - 01/13/2018
1. (=) ED SHEERAN - Perfect (194.689) (+1.490)
2. (=) CAMILA CABELLO - Havana f/Young Thug (186.625) (+0.194)
3. (=) HALSEY - Bad At Love (142.543) (+1.632)
4. (=) POST MALONE - Rockstar f/21 Savage (138.175) (+1.430)
5. (=) IMAGINE DRAGONS - Thunder (124.242) (-1.192)
6. (=) SAM SMITH - Too Good At Goodbyes (121.908) (+0.689) ***
7. (=) DUA LIPA - New Rules (121.487) (+1.646)
8. (=) PORTUGAL. THE MAN - Feel It Still (97.800) (-1.116)
9. (=) KENDRICK LAMAR - LOVE. (88.789) (+0.479)
10. (+2) CHARLIE PUTH - How Long (85.652) (+1.368)
11. (=) SHAWN MENDES - There's Nothing Holdin' Me Back (84.191) (-0.378)
12. (-2) MAROON 5 - What Lovers Do f/SZA (84.142) (-3.020)
13. (=) DEMI LOVATO - Sorry Not Sorry (73.259) (-0.446)
14. (=) G-EAZY - No Limit f/A$AP Rocky, Cardi B (72.261) (-0.834)
15. (=) CHARLIE PUTH - Attention (72.075) (-0.840)
16. (=) BRETT YOUNG - Like I Loved You (68.628) (-1.247)
17. (+1) MAREN MORRIS - I Could Use A Love Song (68.184) (+0.780)
19. (+1) TAYLOR SWIFT - End Game f/Ed Sheeran/Future (67.182) (+0.798)
18. (-2) P!NK - What About Us (67.064) (-1.201)
20. (=) MAX - Lights Down Low (66.696) (+1.613)

Outside the Top 20:
25. (+1) NF - Let You Down (62.362) (+1.415)
26. (+4) BRUNO MARS & CARDI B - Finesse (60.696) (+3.213)
36. (-11) JUSTIN TIMBERLAKE - Filthy (48.528) (-14.390)

[g8erboi]

LWYMMD was a moment for sure, but I wouldn’t label it as a hit either. Longevity is everything when it comes to deciding what is/isn’t a hit, imo. Besides, it literally has zero recurrent airplay.

[Gary]

LOL - Look What You Made Me Do was definitely a hit

3 weeks at #1 is definitely a "hit"

Longevity on charts that measure hits by the week is irrelevant

Granted Taylor Swift has had bigger hits, but this is still a hit

[rimetm]

I mean, empirically yes, but colloquially, there is a sense of relativity that should be considered. It just feels weird, for example, to call any of these hits, despite their high peaks:

Dope / Lady Gaga (#8, had streams that probably shouldn't have counted, left the chart after like 2 weeks)
Formation / Beyonce (#10, not even a month in the top 40)
Gentleman / Psy (#5, less than 2 months in top 40)
Harlem Shake / Bauuer (#1, fueled by memes, less than 20 weeks on the Hot 100)
We Might Be Dead By Tomorrow / Soko (#9, 1 week total on chart)

[g8erboi]

She could have recorded herself farting through a microphone and it probably would have also spent three weeks at number one as well. Hype leading into her sixth album era is pretty much the main factor that enabled “Look” to be a three week number one. Once the hype diminished, the song basically disappeared into the realm of irrelevance.

[Gary]

In a weekly chart that measures the 100 biggest songs in a given week, some songs are bigger than others but in the chart we all follow, we all see the 100 biggest HITS each week.

Time periods long than a week are beyond the scope of the chart and left to opinion as to what a "hit" is and is not

There are threads are this and we have had this discussion many times before.

Lots of definitions
-top 40
-placement on the year end chart
-longevity
-recurrent airplay

-etc.

But I keep going back to, in a 7 day period, on a weekly chart, if the #1 song is not a "hit", then what is it?

[kcdawg13]

LWYMMD is a hit, by definition. The song is also still on the Hot 100 btw, both that and Ready For It? reached #1 and #4 respectively, had multiple weeks in the Top 40, and made it to 20 weeks.

They had high peaks and pretty decent longevity, are they Shake It Off or Blank Space? No, but they are still hits by definition.

[jenglisbe]

Jan 13, 2018 13:06:41 GMT -5 Gary said:

But I keep going back to, in a 7 day period, on a weekly chart, if the #1 song is not a "hit", then what is it?

Some quotes from this discussion:
"It's a hit on paper, for sure, but..."
"I mean, empirically yes, but colloquially, there is a sense of relativity that should be considered."

In other words, people are agreeing with you that it's a hit in terms of having been #1 for 3 weeks. But we also all know that chart peak/run isn't always an accurate reflection of the impact of a song. That is where more subjective points come in. You seem to agree In saying some things are beyond the scope of the chart. So, not sure if you were actually disagreeing with anyone?

[jenglisbe]

Jan 13, 2018 13:13:04 GMT -5 kcdawg13 said:

LWYMMD is a hit, by definition. The song is also still on the Hot 100 btw, both that and Ready For It? reached #1 and #4 respectively, had multiple weeks in the Top 40, and made it to 20 weeks.

They had high peaks and pretty decent longevity, are they Shake It Off or Blank Space? No, but they are still hits by definition.

Some quotes from this discussion:
"It's a hit on paper, for sure, but..."
"I mean, empirically yes, but colloquially, there is a sense of relativity that should be considered."

In other words, people are agreeing with you that it's a hit in terms of having been #1 for 3 weeks. But we also all know that chart peak/run isn't always an accurate reflection of the impact of a song. That is where more subjective points come in. So, not sure if you were actually disagreeing with anyone?

[Enigma.]

This discussion is ridiculous, LWYMMD spent 3 weeks at #1, was the most played song by a female artist on Spotify when it came out and the video has 820 million views.

It's like saying Adele's Hello wasn't a hit

[Deleted]

LWYMMD is an underperformer
Nothing more
Nothing less

You can make a fair argument for it being big and a fair argument for its brevity of high chart life
But imo it's enough to be a hit given how impactful it was on Pop culture during its reign, it was polarizing yet huge.

Anywho LWYMMD still is the shit for me and easily one of my faveds of T Swift.

[Au$tin]

Jan 13, 2018 12:46:16 GMT -5 rimetm said:

Formation / Beyonce (#10, not even a month in the top 40)
Harlem Shake / Bauuer (#1, fueled by memes, less than 20 weeks on the Hot 100)

"Formation" wasn't available anywhere to purchase for a good chunk of its life as a single and was only available on Tidal to stream. Its video was even hidden from being found via search on YouTube. That one's not a good example, especially since it definitely became a very well known song in Beyonce's discography. Had the song been available on Spotify (where it's still not abvailable) and iTunes from day one, and had its video visible from day one, "Formation" easily would have been a #1 contender. It was performed on the damn SuperBowl hours after its release and became a moment that people talked about for weeks for crying out loud.

"Harlem Shake" is a hit no matter how we want to slice it, unfortunately. Sure it was here today, gone tomorrow, but good luck finding a person in the US under the age of 40 who doesn't know that song.

Chart stats never are the end-all-be-all that qualifies something as a hit. Peaks, weeks at #1, weeks in top ten, weeks in the entire damn chart, it all only means one thing: the song's peak, weeks at #1, weeks in top ten, and weeks in the entire chart. It doesn't mean anything more than that. There's a lot more to it than that.


Now, back to the point that started it all. "Look What You Made Me Do" spent three weeks at #1. That's an impressive feat no matter how you want to look at it. It broke streaming records and flied up the airplay charts. Also really impressive. It also fell down these charts at impressive speed, breaking records for its airplay decent as well as its ascent. These are all really interesting and impressing stats. None of them solidify the song's status as a hit, though. The song was a hit because of its ability to reach a large portion of the population. A lot of people know (or knew) if its existence. The pace at which people lost interest doesn't negate that fact, it's just an interesting factoid that goes along with the song's story on the charts. So, was it a hit? Yes. Did it have longevity? Well, longer than a single week at #1, but also shorter than most songs with similar stats. Did it have an impact? It certainly sparked plenty of memes and helped push the album to sell, though it likely left no lasting impact on the music scene, but it didn't have to. Was it a massive hit? No, it wasn't the size of "Shake It Off" or "Blank Space," but again, it didn't have to be. Does that mean it isn't a hit? No. Will it be remembered? See, this is the one I think we're all debating on and equating it to "hit" status. The truth is, there's too many variables at this point to make a claim either way. It could just as easily fade away from the collective knowledge of music lovers as it can solidify itself as a memorable moment in music. What it did during its run is not even the end all be all to either of those things happening. Think about something like "Don't Stop Belivin'" by Journey. A mere classic rock song that was known by Journey's fans and got decent mention from classic rock enthusiasts until the mid-2000s when it was simultaneously used as the song to end The Sopranos and star Glee. The song is now one of the best known and beloved song from the 80s. "Bohemian Rhapsody" was just another Queen hit that didn't stick out until its use in Wayne's World. "All I Want for Christmas Is You" didn't become the mega Christmas monster smash it is today until several years after its release. "Don't You Forget About Me" was reintroduced to a whole new generation thanks to Pitch Perfect. "The Twist" went #1 in two separate years in two separate runs. Hell, several years ago most of us would have claimed "Love Story" would be the more instantly recognized Taylor Swift track over anything else she had done. You could make a case that it's not even the most remembered from its own album, let along the artist. And my personal favorite anecdote, a few years ago we had a poll here on Pulse asking for Rihanna's signature hit. The winner was "We Found Love." We just did the same poll last week and the winning answer by far was "Umbrella." Trends change, generations change, time distorts perception, etc. The fate of "Look What You Made Me Do" to the collective conscious is unknown and bears no merit on a discussion of its hit status mere months after its peak.

"Thriller," one of the most well known songs of all time, peaked at #4. Chart stats mean s**t when it comes to using them for anything more than just "how did this song do during this time frame against all of the other song popular at that time."

[Enigma.]

AMEN to that

To think that AIWFCIY is the best known song by Mariah when she has like 18 #1's

[Crimsonio]

Is this the end for Havana on Pop Radio? Is there any chance she gets back to #1 on the BB Hot 100 now?

[pnobelysk]

For Look being a hit, id like to add it was one of the top 25 selling songs last year with almost no televised performances

[TakeMe]

Jan 13, 2018 14:28:22 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

AMEN to that

To think that AIWFCIY is the best known song by Mariah when she has like 18 #1's

That’s because a good majority of her number ones stem from them being discounted this pushing them to the top and also Payola...majority of anyone that hears imo only knows her music from the Emancipation album and onwards.

[Gary]

For Mariah, it depends on who you talk to. For a teenager, it would be the "All I Want for Christmas..." as that is the song that gets the big exposure

The 18#1's would mainly come into play for older people.

[jenglisbe]

Jan 13, 2018 15:14:24 GMT -5 TakeMe said:

Jan 13, 2018 14:28:22 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

AMEN to that

To think that AIWFCIY is the best known song by Mariah when she has like 18 #1's

That’s because a good majority of her number ones stem from them being discounted this pushing them to the top and also Payola...majority of anyone that hears imo only knows her music from the Emancipation album and onwards.

A majority? STFU.

Were you alive in the 90s?

[Dylan :)]

Jan 13, 2018 12:46:19 GMT -5 g8erboi said:

She could have recorded herself farting through a microphone and it probably would have also spent three weeks at number one as well. Hype leading into her sixth album era is pretty much the main factor that enabled “Look” to be a three week number one. Once the hype diminished, the song basically disappeared into the realm of irrelevance.

I don't know if this is true but I read during the week that Taylor accidentally released eleven seconds of silence and it topped the iTunes chart in Canada lol

Anyway, Reputation and its singles are from flops. Compared to her other stuff sure, but we must consider how it was released. First of all, Taylor was hated last year and in 2016, by many many people online. Everyone seemed to be against her. Ready For It was always going to struggle due to the failure in its release. I think I remember someone saying that she didn't have a choice due to the ABC deal, but I think she should have just left it in the ad as a teaser for the album. No matter what way you look at it, Look What You Made Me Do was #1 for three weeks. Reputaiton was #1 for four weeks. They were hits, no matter what way you look at it. Whether Look What You Made Me Do was pushed to #1 on pop or not, it still got top 5 before there was any suspicious gains. While it was climbing the chart, Ready For It, which as far as any of us know the label wasn't actively promoting to radio, was climbing the chart. In my opinion, this affected both songs' potentials at pop radio. She currently has a song in the top ten on pop radio, even with the over saturation of Ed at the moment. Also, don't forget I Don't Wanna Live Forever.

I think it is fair to say that 1989 performed much better and this is under performing compared to it, but if you want to compare Reputation to 1989, you have to compare how she was perceived by the public and media going into each era