2020 Grammy Awards

[Mike]

[Normi]

Big OTR Mashup with 3 different versions incoming?

[Deleted]

stream of consciousness thoughts:

Dugan's complaint focuses most on the misconduct happening among the committees, more specifically the 'main' committee that oversees the general field. I am still wading my way through the full complaint, but in what I have read thus far she does not mention impropriety with the final selection of winners. With that said, she does make a point to say that biases against women and minorities are "deeply ingrained" in large part due to the 12,000-member voting body being "overwhelmingly White and male." Only 20% of the voters are women, and only a slightly larger amount than that are ethnic/racial minorities (and that is all minority groups combined). She points out to specific artists' losses in the general field as examples of problematic bias, so she certainly is trying to call attention to the winner patterns as well and discussion of it is relevant to the topic. We should just be sure to make it clear to recognize "the committee issue" and "the voter bias issue" as two separate matters while discussing them; they're related, but different.

The complaint also points out that only 9.3% of nominees in AOTY, ROTY, SOTY, BNA, and Producer of the Year from 2013 to 2018 were women (I haven't finished reading the complaint yet so I don't know if there is a comparable stat offered for minorities). That is a fairly small frame of time but I understand why she went with that as it focuses most on the current atmosphere.

A very large amount of the focus has been on the general field, not on the genres. As such, countering will's argument with a list of all of Jay and Kanye's wins and nominations misses part of his point (not all of his post was about rap categories). Where is the love on the big stage? The way the Grammys are set up now, a lot of people perceive the Big 4 + the pop categories as the only ones that really 'mean' something. That in itself is a large reason people continue to call out the Grammys over ignoring certain genres in the general field. It is also the reason why any attempt to dismiss Beyonce's AOTY snubs by pointing out all of her earlier wins/nominations doesn't quite stick.

Somewhat ironically Dugan names Eminem as one of her genre bias examples. Still, he's a relevant point of discussion if one wants to move past the general field and examine the rap categories. Honestly, even the "he's one of the greatest rappers of all time!" defense can start to feel as if it's missing the point - white privilege affords Eminem the luxury of being lauded for good work (and for that matter, for his albums to be automatically labeled good work) without question. It's entirely possible that Eminem was the most deserved winner for all six of his rap album wins, but are black rappers with the same perceived level of talent and music quality being awarded with the same ease? Would he have gotten all six of those wins if the voting body looked a little less like himself? That's a debate for its own separate post.

[jenglisbe]

Jan 23, 2020 12:54:41 GMT -5 @antigonerising said:

stream of consciousness thoughts:

Dugan's complaint focuses most on the misconduct happening among the committees, more specifically the 'main' committee that oversees the general field. I am still wading my way through the full complaint, but in what I have read thus far she does not mention impropriety with the final selection of winners. With that said, she does make a point to say that biases against women and minorities are "deeply ingrained" in large part due to the 12,000-member voting body being "overwhelmingly White and male." Only 20% of the voters are women, and only a slightly larger amount than that are ethnic/racial minorities (and that is all minority groups combined). She points out to specific artists' losses in the general field as examples of problematic bias, so she certainly is trying to call attention to the winner patterns as well and discussion of it is relevant to the topic. We should just be sure to make it clear to recognize "the committee issue" and "the voter bias issue" as two separate matters while discussing them; they're related, but different.

Exactly.

The complaint also points out that only 9.3% of nominees in AOTY, ROTY, SOTY, BNA, and Producer of the Year from 2013 to 2018 were women (I haven't finished reading the complaint yet so I don't know if there is a comparable stat offered for minorities). That is a fairly small frame of time but I understand why she went with that as it focuses most on the current atmosphere.

The nuance to this is I’m assuming that stat includes all nominees, so arrangers, producers, etc who are part of a nomination. So for instance, when Kacey won AOTY last year, so did the 6 guys who worked on the album. Therein lies the industry issues of men dominating so many areas.

Somewhat ironically Dugan names Eminem as one of her genre bias examples. Still, he's a relevant point of discussion if one wants to move past the general field and examine the rap categories. Honestly, even the "he's one of the greatest rappers of all time!" defense can start to feel as if it's missing the point - white privilege affords Eminem the luxury of being lauded for good work (and for that matter, for his albums to be automatically labeled good work) without question. It's entirely possible that Eminem was the most deserved winner for all six of his rap album wins, but are black rappers with the same perceived level of talent and music quality being awarded with the same ease? Would he have gotten all six of those wins if the voting body looked a little less like himself? That's a debate for its own separate post.

Kanye West was winning easily/consistently until he went off the boil (though one can argue a white rapper would be let off the hook more).

[Ivy Leegue™]

What a dramatic mess!

[#LisaRinna]

Jan 22, 2020 20:22:03 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Ousted Recording Academy CEO Deborah Dugan to Appear Live on ‘Good Morning America’


In the latest twist in the ongoing drama around the Recording Academy, ousted CEO Deborah Dugan will appear — live — on “Good Morning America” tomorrow, a rep at the network confirmed to Variety.

The appearance will likely heat up an already explosive situation in the run-up to the Grammy Awards on Sunday. Dugan was placed on administrative leave last week, just ten days before the show, amid allegations of misconduct against an unnamed female employee that amount to verbal abuse; Dugan’s attorneys denied this in an explosive 66-page complaint against the Academy filed yesterday.

That complaint alleges that her predecessor, Neil Portnow, raped a female artist (and Academy executives were aware), a claim he has since denied; that Joel Katz, a prominent attorney who has been part of the Academy’s inner circle for decades, attempted to “woo” and kiss her after a private dinner, a claim he has since denied; “egregious conflicts of interest, improper self-dealing by Board members and voting irregularities with respect to nominations for Grammy Awards”; and that her emails were being monitored and shared with Academy executives by her assistant, Claudine Little, who was previously Portnow’s assistant; and exorbitant or unnecessary legal bills to outside attorneys, conflicts of interest and more (the company’s tax records show that it paid nearly $15 million to two outside law firms over five years).

Sources close to the Academy say that she clashed with its culture and was dismissive and impatient with some employees. One thing is clear: It was an awkward fit. The war of words between the two sides has continued to escalate and threatens to overshadow the Grammy Awards themselves.

variety.com/2020/music/news/ousted-recording-academy-ceo-deborah-dugan-to-appear-live-on-good-morning-america-1203476257/

SPILL ALL OF IT QUEEN!

[slowmo]

Here's the 188 page Grammy program/book

www.62ndgrammybook.com/

page 125 is of some interest to the current discussion.

[Deleted]

Ousted Recording Academy Boss Deborah Dugan Calls Grammys “Tainted” In Morning Show Blitz

videos of interviews on CBS This Morning and GMA:

Not a lot was said on CBS This Morning or GMA that wasn't already in the complaint, but there were a couple of new tidbits:

Asked who the artist is on both shows, Dugan and Wigdor refused to identify them out of concerns for their privacy and “the integrity of all those artists who are going to perform” on Sunday. But she told GMA it was not an isolated case. “I have evidence that in another room — because there were complaints made in the Jazz category …”

[snip]

“There is a system of taking care of their own,” she told CBS This Morning co-anchor Tony Dokoupil of the Grammy process. “I’ll say that it’s mostly white males that are in those rooms that make these decisions — there’s conflict of interest. Let’s say if you represented that artist, you have a financial gain if they are nominated for a Grammy.”

Asked by Stephanopoulos if she will be watching the Grammy show Sunday, Dugan replied, “I am. I worked very hard on the show and I love the artists that are going to be performing and I love all those that are nominated and those that don’t get the honor of being nominated.”

Stephanopoulos replied, “So, all of us can watch in good conscience as well?” Dugan paused. “Yes. I think so,” she said.

The mention of the jazz category having similar complaints is relevant because that does indicate that genre nominations and wins aren't just a voter bias issue - committee problems were/are occurring on that level as well. And if it's happening in a tiny niche like jazz it is almost surely happening in bigger niches like country or hip-hop. (Ironically this might mean pop is one of the only fields whose results are 'untainted' because IIRC they don't have a committee).

[jenglisbe]

It's interesting CBS This Morning would have her on since CBS televises the show. Good on them.

She isn't saying anything too surprising. She said people on the committees take care of their own. I'm not saying it's right, but of course people vote for their clients and friends. That would frankly happen in any type of organization or business anywhere.

[jenglisbe]

Some interesting drama with Aerosmith and their drummer:
www.stereogum.com/2070655/aerosmith-drummer-joey-kramer-lawsuit/news/

[shayonce]

that jazz thing was mentioned already in the complaint with the more detail.

pop don't have committee but because of that, the nominations are heavily driven by big name artists.
so pop is also heavily influenced by friendship/connection too.

I guess committee has like 15 people, is having 1 person in there would secure nomination that easily?
also the industry is very connected.. obviously some or many in those committee knows or close to artists or their team.
I'm curious about how many artists/team was in the committee and didn't get nomination. because I bet it happen a lot.

it is indeed conflict of interest, but not dramatic as some saying.
and yeah, she didn't mention or allude anything about winners, but stan twitter is running with that..

[shayonce]

just some idea.
make those nomination committee with critics instead of people with direct connection.
(currently they're full of songwriter/producer/artist/engineer/A&R/manager, etc)

[Mike]

[Ivy Leegue™]

I guess I am the only person who doesn't really care about all of the politics involved behind the scenes. I just watch the Grammys to see the performances and to see who is going to win the big awards but I listen to so many artists who don't even come close to Grammy nominations and I don't feel they care or need the Grammys to validate them. Is it shitty that this stuff is happening? Yes. But, at the end of the day, it's still the entertainment industry and there are MUCH bigger fish to fry.

[Deleted]

Jan 24, 2020 13:05:31 GMT -5 Mike said:

Hopefully he performs shirtless 

[14887fan]

Confirmed that Taylor Swift will not be attending.
Huge, esp. considering the push for her to win Song of the Year.

[Mike]

[Caviar]

Bullshit

[jenglisbe]

In theory, it's possible Dugan knew a song was 18th of 20 but the voting members did not, right?

[collegedropout]

There's nothing wrong with an 18th song getting in. That's the whole point of this panel. The problem is a nominee was on the panel. But they are allowed only one vote so should it matter that much?

[jenglisbe]

Jan 24, 2020 17:24:43 GMT -5 collegedropout said:

There's nothing wrong with an 18th song getting in. That's the whole point of this panel. The problem is a nominee was on the panel. But they are allowed only one vote so should it matter that much?

We need more details, for sure.

[ddlz]

You just can't make this shit up.

Grammy insiders reveal their secret ballots for the 2020 nominees

THE MAESTRO: I’m going to give that one to H.E.R. She’s like the female Prince and Lauryn Hill put together. The songs are strong. I love the emotional content. Musically, it’s at a whole other level.

money.yahoo.com/grammy-insiders-reveal-secret-ballots-211933078.html

[kimberly]

Jan 24, 2020 18:24:17 GMT -5 ddlz said:

You just can't make this s**t up.

Grammy insiders reveal their secret ballots for the 2020 nominees

THE MAESTRO: I’m going to give that one to H.E.R. She’s like the female Prince and Lauryn Hill put together. The songs are strong. I love the emotional content. Musically, it’s at a whole other level.

money.yahoo.com/grammy-insiders-reveal-secret-ballots-211933078.html

this person clearly doesn't have ears

"BEST POP VOCAL ALBUM

• The Lion King: The Gift — Beyoncé
• When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? — Billie Eilish
• Thank U, Next — Ariana Grande
• No. 6 Collaborations Project — Ed Sheeran
• Lover — Taylor Swift

THE MAESTRO: They’ll probably give it to Ed Sheeran. I mean, it’s either to Ed because he deserves it, or to Beyoncé because they think they should give it to her."

[willapted33]

HER is so fucking boring, it’s offensive to people with ears that she got in over Tyler

[Ivy Leegue™]

H.E.R. is a multi-instrumentalist and an electric live performer so I am kinda cool with her being pimped even if I have zero interest in her music.

Taylor is making a statement but lbr, she was like 4th favored to win that SOTY Grammy anyway.

[annoymous1]

I think Ariana is due to win at least 1 Grammy on sunday it would be fun to see if she can win in all the categories she is nominated in .

[BB🌕]

Jan 24, 2020 19:05:53 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Jan 24, 2020 18:24:17 GMT -5 ddlz said:

You just can't make this s**t up.

money.yahoo.com/grammy-insiders-reveal-secret-ballots-211933078.html

this person clearly doesn't have ears

"BEST POP VOCAL ALBUM

• The Lion King: The Gift — Beyoncé
• When We All Fall Asleep, Where Do We Go? — Billie Eilish
• Thank U, Next — Ariana Grande
• No. 6 Collaborations Project — Ed Sheeran
• Lover — Taylor Swift

THE MAESTRO: They’ll probably give it to Ed Sheeran. I mean, it’s either to Ed because he deserves it, or to Beyoncé because they think they should give it to her."

[14887fan]

A “GRAMMY insider” who calls themselves “The Maestro” in their own predictions piece, posted on Yahoo’s Finance page? Take it for the grain of salt that it is, y’all lol.

[Caviar]

Ariana or Billie is taking Pop Album.

[Deleted]

Jan 24, 2020 19:30:38 GMT -5 willapted33 said:

HER is so f**king boring, it’s offensive to people with ears that she got in over Taylor

ikr #BoycottGrammys