Billboard 200: SuperM #1 168k (60 bundles, 8 CD versions)

[forg]

They already have the #1 headlines which is what they want. There's less press for 2nd week onward even if it will have historical big drop. Albums don't get that much publicity outside opening week.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

Oct 13, 2019 20:54:17 GMT -5 Choco said:

Messssssss... but until BB removes bundling, it's the smart way to play the game.

I feel another Hits article criticizing the practice incoming ...

[Naos]

Oct 13, 2019 21:06:33 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Yea, it’ll be real savvy marketing when they have one of the largest drops for a #1 album. Will let everyone know how fraudulent their first week was. Smart

Do people really care much outside of the first week though?

[shayonce]

Oct 13, 2019 20:54:17 GMT -5 Choco said:

Messssssss... but until BB removes bundling, it's the smart way to play the game.

yeah. this is pretty much norm right now as everyone doing it. labels encourage them to do it because they get paid with each merch sold.

[shaz196]

Bundles are one thing when they act as a small boost for an artist whose streamimg and sales are sustainable, but when they make up over 90% of your first week consumption and your album collapses after it's debut it shows how flawed the practice is.

[wavey.]

SKSKSKSKKKSKSSS the KPop deception 😥
That's still a big look for Summer though! In comparison(R&B wise), she opened better than Ella Mai, without the hit singles. I can see the album having legs as soon as they push a single.

[monkeydluffy]

I usually don't feel bad for artists not getting a number one album, but this is different. I truly feel sorry for Summer. I couldn't believe the title when I pulled up the article on Billboard.

I hope that this is actually fraudulent and an article comes out about it later on. It's not that I'm not appreciative of SuperM getting their first number one, as I actually like K-Pop, but something with this situation doesn't feel right about these numbers.

This situation reminds me a lot of Kris Wu's album "Antares". It had number one projections until it was found out that Chinese fans hacked to get the album on US iTunes, and it went from possible number 1 debut and over 100,000 sales to debuting at 100 and having only 10,000 copies sold with only 5,000 in pure sales.

I hope for Summer's sake she gets some sort of justice, cause this sh*t sucks for her...

[nekotuo]

That's so bullshit, summers "over it" definitely was the most popular album last week.

[🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾]

Oct 13, 2019 19:47:28 GMT -5 Mayman said:

What a joke.

At this point in time, no one can ever complain about Taylor and Nicki ever doing any sort of bundle for their albums.

[Deleted]

I don't care if bundles comprise the majority of someone's sales, but SIXTY of them?! That is wild af. And people thought Travis Scott's 28 clothing bundles were too many. Yeesh.

This makes me mad for the opposite reason as everyone else - I actually am a supporter of bundles as a general concept, but this is the kind of egregious behavior that can only inevitably lead to more artists trying it to capacity and eventually making Soundscan/BuzzAngle completely shut it down. 10 bundle options is a more than adequate limit IMO. Probably should be more like 5.

Sadly, there won't be backlash bc they didn't block someone 'important' enough for the industry to care - I hate to say it like that but it is unfortunately true. Summer wasn't even initially predicted to be #1 herself and she isn't a pop or big mainstream act that a lot of people are invested in, so everyone is gonna shrug it off. Let this happen to a peak Ariana or Bruno Mars though and it would be a whole other story.

[thegreatdivine]

This was always the issue I had with bundles being allowed to count as album sales and reflect on the Billboard 200. I can even get making multiple CD/cassette/vinyl versions of an album to boost sales. At least, that is still selling music and there are some fanbases that still love collecting physical versions of albums.

It becomes an issue when artists take it a step further and start including ridiculous items that have nothing to do with a musical experience just so they can score than #1 debut and crash into the earth the following week. It's truly exhausting to see. I've been complaining about this for months now, but I guess it won't be going away anytime soon since it's quickly become a common industry practice. Maybe we'll see Rihanna bundle her album with make-up, lingerie and clothes from her fashion line and other musicians with other brands and businesses outside music can bundle their albums along with their products.

More and more artists will keep exploiting it and pushing the line to see how far they can take it and they'll keep pushing that line till something gets done about it. These situations usually don't get changed till a massive act overdoes it and causes a lot of ruckus and the industry is forced to react. Otherwise, Billboard is usually really slow to make any real changes to their methodologies.

[Keelzit]

I've never heard of any of the top 2 album artists until I saw this article so I think my opinion is as unbiased as it gets. The way I see it is that chart watchers would be complaining no matter which one came out on top. One moment those 164k copies are fraudulent because of bundles, suddenly the 14k would be undeserving of #1 too because of streaming equivalents making up an overwhelming amount of its total sum. There have been multiple albums hitting #1/top 10 recently with <1k copies sold at a respective week to the uproar of people not accepting that times have changed and streaming has been crowned as the new standard. Just get over it and accept the fact that it's practically impossible for new acts to pull pure sales numbers a la Celine Dion in the 90s or Adele. Blame economy and technology for that because unlike what their pure sales/tactics might suggest, there are people who actually do care about their output even if just for a week.

[iggyamo]

Does anyone know if buying a CD with a digital download count as 1 or 2 album sales? Because if so, then that definitely needs to be changed. Also if they did tour bundles

[moonlite]

Oct 14, 2019 4:30:05 GMT -5 Keelzit said:

I've never heard of any of the top 2 album artists until I saw this article so I think my opinion is as unbiased as it gets. The way I see it is that chart watchers would be complaining no matter which one came out on top. One moment those 164k copies are fraudulent because of bundles, suddenly the 14k would be undeserving of #1 too because of streaming equivalents making up an overwhelming amount of its total sum. There have been multiple albums hitting #1/top 10 recently with <1k copies sold at a respective week to the uproar of people not accepting that times have changed and streaming has been crowned as the new standard. Just get over it and accept the fact that it's practically impossible for new acts to pull pure sales numbers a la Celine Dion in the 90s or Adele. Blame economy and technology for that because ulike what their pure sales/tactics might suggest, there are people who actually do care about their output even if just for a week.

Huh? Who was complaining here last week when DaBaby went #1 with less than 10k pure? You’re heavily exaggerating the amount of “uproar” that happens.

Even if there was uproar, their cries don’t matter at all because streaming IS how people consume music in 2019 by an overwhelming majority. I can assure you not a single person here would’ve been complaining if Summer went #1.

[renfield75]

I don't see how it's fraudulent if they release 8 versions of the CD and their fanbase bought that. That just shows how dedicated their fans are. It makes sense that the K-Pop social media phenomenon would eventually be reflected on the chart beyond BTS. Summer Walker could have released 8 different physical versions but that likely wouldn't have done much for her because that's not who her audience is. She'll have more longevity, which is ultimately more important that one forgettable week at number one.

[ddlz]

This is just so mind-numbingly stupid that I'm kinda at a loss for words.

[moonlite]

Oct 14, 2019 9:35:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

I don't see how it's fraudulent if they release 8 versions of the CD and their fanbase bought that. That just shows how dedicated their fans are. It makes sense that the K-Pop social media phenomenon would eventually be reflected on the chart beyond BTS. Summer Walker could have released 8 different physical versions but that likely wouldn't have done much for her because that's not who her audience is. She'll have more longevity, which is ultimately more important that one forgettable week at number one.

Because having 8 versions of an album is baiting the same few # of fans to buy the album 8 times... the albums chart isn’t to show which artist has the most “dedicated fanbase” or which artist can sell the most t-shirts and keychains (with an album thrown in on the side), its too show which album was the most popular of the week. Its a flawed system when you have the same few fans buying an album a large number of times to heavily inflate the numbers. At that point the chart is just completely inaccurate and it shouldn’t be taken seriously

Ask BB to make a “T-Shirt 200” or “Top Fanbase of the Week” if that’s what you’re interested in

[iHype.]

Oct 14, 2019 4:30:05 GMT -5 Keelzit said:

I've never heard of any of the top 2 album artists until I saw this article so I think my opinion is as unbiased as it gets. The way I see it is that chart watchers would be complaining no matter which one came out on top. One moment those 164k copies are fraudulent because of bundles, suddenly the 14k would be undeserving of #1 too because of streaming equivalents making up an overwhelming amount of its total sum. There have been multiple albums hitting #1/top 10 recently with <1k copies sold at a respective week to the uproar of people not accepting that times have changed and streaming has been crowned as the new standard. Just get over it and accept the fact that it's practically impossible for new acts to pull pure sales numbers a la Celine Dion in the 90s or Adele. Blame economy and technology for that because ulike what their pure sales/tactics might suggest, there are people who actually do care about their output even if just for a week.

People aren't even mad at the simple use of bundles per se. Had they been projected 165k~ from the get go nobody would've really been annoyed. 

However they were projected 65-70k, then the last day of tracking magically did 100k more than that. It's the clear fabrication of popularity that comes with bundles, not to mention lack of rules/monitoring. Just throw more things online, have your fans buy them, then magically your album is doing huger numbers. In this case, they threw 60 different things, and did tour bundles. Clearly Billboard is just letting people take complete advantage of bundles.

This was a niche group of fans ultimately being responsible for 3,4 or 5 copies each by having merchandise after merchandise shoved down their throat. 

[renfield75]

Oct 14, 2019 9:53:30 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Oct 14, 2019 9:35:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

I don't see how it's fraudulent if they release 8 versions of the CD and their fanbase bought that. That just shows how dedicated their fans are. It makes sense that the K-Pop social media phenomenon would eventually be reflected on the chart beyond BTS. Summer Walker could have released 8 different physical versions but that likely wouldn't have done much for her because that's not who her audience is. She'll have more longevity, which is ultimately more important that one forgettable week at number one.

Because having 8 versions of an album is baiting the same 5000 fans to buy the album 8 times... the albums chart isn’t to show which artist has the most “dedicated fanbase” or which artist can sell the most t-shirts and keychains (with an album thrown in on the side), its too show which album was the most popular of the week. Its a flawed system when you have the same few fans buying an album a large number of times to heavily inflate the numbers. At that point the chart is just completely inaccurate and it shouldn’t be taken seriously

Ask BB to make a “T-Shirt 200” or “Top Fanbase of the Week” if that’s what you’re interested in

A sale is a sale...if you disqualify fans buying several copies do you then also disqualify fans who listen to an album multiple times on streaming platforms? If SuperM (who I had never heard of either) has the power to sell that many albums to their fanbase then it is what it is.

[iggyamo]

Oct 14, 2019 10:00:03 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

Oct 14, 2019 9:53:30 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Because having 8 versions of an album is baiting the same 5000 fans to buy the album 8 times... the albums chart isn’t to show which artist has the most “dedicated fanbase” or which artist can sell the most t-shirts and keychains (with an album thrown in on the side), its too show which album was the most popular of the week. Its a flawed system when you have the same few fans buying an album a large number of times to heavily inflate the numbers. At that point the chart is just completely inaccurate and it shouldn’t be taken seriously

Ask BB to make a “T-Shirt 200” or “Top Fanbase of the Week” if that’s what you’re interested in

A sale is a sale...if you disqualify fans buying several copies do you then also disqualify fans who listen to an album multiple times on streaming platforms? If SuperM (who I had never heard of either) has the power to sell that many albums to their fanbase then it is what it is.

They just have the power to sell sweatshirts, if that’s all that matters, then random acts that are more famous for their apparel like Joy Division should’ve had a number 1 album

[moonlite]

Exactly. If BB continues to let this nonsense slide it won’t even be about albums or music at all. It’ll be about which artist had the most popular clothing line of the week.

Like nobody cares if BB wants to venture outside of music and start tracking weekly Macy’s sales. But keep it separate from the music.

[shayonce]

Oct 14, 2019 8:57:51 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

Does anyone know if buying a CD with a digital download count as 1 or 2 album sales? Because if so, then that definitely needs to be changed. Also if they did tour bundles

It is counted as 1 sales.

[HolidayGuy]

gabe, sweetie, that album didn't go 1-out. It dropped off after two weeks on, and the album has persisted on Top Current Albums since. :))

[85la]

Oct 14, 2019 11:23:02 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

gabe, sweetie, that album didn't go 1-out. It dropped off after two weeks on, and the album has persisted on Top Current Albums since.

To be specific, it's exact run was 1-77-out, but are you seriously suggesting that only two weeks on the Billboard 200 wasn't at all a flop and that that kind of drop didn't show serious chart manipulation? I have been arguing for years that the merch/concert/bundling practice has been at the very least problematic and questionable from the get go, but it seems that people are willing to let it slide when it's artists that are more generally liked by this board, such as Madonna or Pink, but not so much for artists that aren't liked as much or that people haven't heard of, such as this week. Yeah, SuperM's tactics might have been especially manipulative and egregious, but still...

Imagine people decades from now looking back at these runs, seeing these drops of 1-29, 1-52, or 1-77 or whatever and then often completely falling off just a couple weeks later. You won't need to know anything about how the specific rules or formula works now to deduce that serious manipulation or outright fraud must have gone down!

[HolidayGuy]

^Was simply stating a fact. :) Madonna, like many other veteran act, cannot compete with the younger acts in terms of streaming, which is what dictates the Billboard 200 these days. If album-redemption offers/merchandise bundles is fraud, then those would be some mighty crowded cells for the artists/culprits of today. In any event, I'd say more casual observers than not note peak positions more than weekly chart positions for titles.

For the record, Lionel Richie's live album did fall completely off the Billboard 200 chart, from No. 2. And it only had a couple of weeks on the Album Sales and Current Albums chart.

[Mayman]

Oct 14, 2019 11:23:02 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

gabe, sweetie, that album didn't go 1-out. It dropped off after two weeks on, and the album has persisted on Top Current Albums since.

1-77-OFF is basically the same thing. I definitely wouldn't go around bragging about that. 

[Naos]

Oct 14, 2019 9:53:30 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Oct 14, 2019 9:35:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

I don't see how it's fraudulent if they release 8 versions of the CD and their fanbase bought that. That just shows how dedicated their fans are. It makes sense that the K-Pop social media phenomenon would eventually be reflected on the chart beyond BTS. Summer Walker could have released 8 different physical versions but that likely wouldn't have done much for her because that's not who her audience is. She'll have more longevity, which is ultimately more important that one forgettable week at number one.

Because having 8 versions of an album is baiting the same few # of fans to buy the album 8 times... the albums chart isn’t to show which artist has the most “dedicated fanbase” or which artist can sell the most t-shirts and keychains (with an album thrown in on the side), its too show which album was the most popular of the week. Its a flawed system when you have the same few fans buying an album a large number of times to heavily inflate the numbers. At that point the chart is just completely inaccurate and it shouldn’t be taken seriously

Ask BB to make a “T-Shirt 200” or “Top Fanbase of the Week” if that’s what you’re interested in

Because fans never do that with streams, no sirree.

[Deleted]

Let me ask this, if Billboard did change the way about bundles, how can they fix it so it can be fair for everybody? No bundles? A specific amount of bundles? I don't know if they can change it and make people happy at the same, it seems impossible.

[Linnethia Monique]

Oct 14, 2019 2:33:22 GMT -5 🅳🅸🆂🅲🅾 said:

Oct 13, 2019 19:47:28 GMT -5 Mayman said:

What a joke.

At this point in time, no one can ever complain about Taylor and Nicki ever doing any sort of bundle for their albums.

Nicki did bundles for the Queen album. The backlash she got was because she was bitching about bundles while also selling bundles.

[moonlite]

Oct 14, 2019 15:53:33 GMT -5 Naos said:

Oct 14, 2019 9:53:30 GMT -5 moonlite said:

Because having 8 versions of an album is baiting the same few # of fans to buy the album 8 times... the albums chart isn’t to show which artist has the most “dedicated fanbase” or which artist can sell the most t-shirts and keychains (with an album thrown in on the side), its too show which album was the most popular of the week. Its a flawed system when you have the same few fans buying an album a large number of times to heavily inflate the numbers. At that point the chart is just completely inaccurate and it shouldn’t be taken seriously

Ask BB to make a “T-Shirt 200” or “Top Fanbase of the Week” if that’s what you’re interested in

Because fans never do that with streams, no sirree.

Streaming is clearly designed to be done multiple times. Don’t be dense. Streaming and actual copies are 2 different things.