moonlite
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Posts: 1,185
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Post by moonlite on Oct 14, 2019 16:15:41 GMT -5
Let me ask this, if Billboard did change the way about bundles, how can they fix it so it can be fair for everybody? No bundles? A specific amount of bundles? I don't know if they can change it and make people happy at the same, it seems impossible. Pretty simple, remove it all together unless the bundles are for actual music (i/e vinyls, cassestes, different covers). Non-music related merch has nothing to do with music. But of course, they wonβt do that. |
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Post by Naos on Oct 14, 2019 16:47:01 GMT -5
Because fans never do that with streams, no sirree. Streaming is clearly designed to be done multiple times. Donβt be dense. Streaming and actual copies are 2 different things. So what you're saying is, streaming done with the purpose of inflating numbers is okay, but it's not with sales? That's a bit asinine. |
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moonlite
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Posts: 1,185
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Post by moonlite on Oct 14, 2019 16:57:06 GMT -5
Streaming is clearly designed to be done multiple times. Donβt be dense. Streaming and actual copies are 2 different things. So what you're saying is, streaming done with the purpose of inflating numbers is okay, but it's not with sales? That's a bit asinine. :| |
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Post by Mayman on Oct 14, 2019 17:04:29 GMT -5
Streaming is clearly designed to be done multiple times. Donβt be dense. Streaming and actual copies are 2 different things. So what you're saying is, streaming done with the purpose of inflating numbers is okay, but it's not with sales? That's a bit asinine. Please stop playing dumb. You know that it's very hard for someone to even stream enough of an album to get a single album equivalent unit. |
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Post by Naos on Oct 14, 2019 17:15:43 GMT -5
So what you're saying is, streaming done with the purpose of inflating numbers is okay, but it's not with sales? That's a bit asinine. Please stop playing dumb. You know that it's very hard for someone to even stream enough of an album to get a single album equivalent unit. It doesn't change the fact it's a similar process. Smaller amount of fans artificially inflating numbers. Even some artists encourage their fans to constantly stream, like Chris Brown for example. |
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iggyamo
Gold Member
Joined: April 2019
Posts: 582
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Post by iggyamo on Oct 14, 2019 17:22:00 GMT -5
From what I heard (I can definitely be proven wrong, basing this off of Twitter which is shaky at best, but itβs from a number of different outlets) apparently all the merchandise has to be imported from the US, so the bundles, no matter where you are, count towards the Billboard chart.
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strongerq
Platinum Member
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 1,508
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Post by strongerq on Oct 14, 2019 17:32:26 GMT -5
So what you're saying is, streaming done with the purpose of inflating numbers is okay, but it's not with sales? That's a bit asinine. Please stop playing dumb. You know that it's very hard for someone to even stream enough of an album to get a single album equivalent unit.
The following user most likely isn't from the US but for the argument sake lets assume he is.
The user has streamed 11,616 songs in the last 7 days (yes 168 hours  ). One album MOTS:P was streamed 1,678 times - more than 1 album-equivalent unit, and total of 10 albums have been streamed 100+ times.
If you look at his history he has streamed 800K+ songs in less than 2 years. If you look at the total for his albums he has ~102 album-equivalent units for Love Yourself η΅ 'Answer', ~50 album-equivalent units for Love Yourself θ½ 'Tear', ~48 album-equivalent units for MAP OF THE SOUL : PERSONA and so on . . .
My point is its not that hard to game the system with streaming too.
As for the bundles they should be banned altogether maybe, just maybe leave tour bundles but multiply them by a factor of 0.5 or something so if fans buy 15K only 7.5K count
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Post by Mayman on Oct 14, 2019 18:25:02 GMT -5
He streamed that album almost nonstop and got only 1 unit. That proves my point.
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strongerq
Platinum Member
Joined: August 2019
Posts: 1,508
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Post by strongerq on Oct 14, 2019 18:37:37 GMT -5
He streamed that album almost nonstop and got only 1 unit. That proves my point. I just now realized that you were talking about Billboard units in one tracking week, my bad . Anyway bundles are way way easier to abuse than streaming and they should be completely removed from the formula. |
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Post by Mayman on Oct 14, 2019 18:57:44 GMT -5
I think bundles that contain music (for example, Travis did bundles of HITR where he sold a cd/vinyl/cassette with an included digital copy). Not random sweatshirts and bobble heads that have nothing to do with music.
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
Joined: December 2003
Posts: 33,923
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 14, 2019 19:00:27 GMT -5
Mayan- no bragging, just facts.
At any rate, the longevity on a streaming- centric chart of a new album by someone who's been in the game for 36-plus years isn't really of a major concern.
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Post by Mayman on Oct 14, 2019 19:02:32 GMT -5
"Mayan"  |
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forg
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Post by forg on Oct 14, 2019 20:25:25 GMT -5
I just don't think that this is something the record labels would complain because they could just follow suit and offer more merch bundles as it brings in more money! Unlike let's say when Born This Way had that discount to get it over 1M opening sales, the other labels most likely complained about it because they couldn't do the discount pricing too under the guise of unfair competition which led to the Billboard rule change.
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c0ldasfire
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Post by c0ldasfire on Oct 14, 2019 21:02:58 GMT -5
The reaction here kinda feels like the time Britney Spears's Blackout was expected to hit #1 but Billboard changed the rules for store-exclusive albums and Eagles landed #1 with over 700K vs Blackout's over 200K sales. I don't think there will be industry backlash, fan backlash maybe, unless Summer's label was really invested to hit #1, her album obviously will have more longevity. This was one of the greatest injustices that has occurred on this planet. |
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wavey.
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Positive VibesππΎβ€
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Post by wavey. on Oct 14, 2019 21:13:43 GMT -5
"Mayan" ππππππππππ |
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shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,234
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Post by shayonce on Oct 15, 2019 2:19:33 GMT -5
Let me ask this, if Billboard did change the way about bundles, how can they fix it so it can be fair for everybody? No bundles? A specific amount of bundles? I don't know if they can change it and make people happy at the same, it seems impossible. it's actually very easy. lol 1. make "redeem system" like ticket bundle. merch bundle supposed to work like ticket bundle, redeem, but some how there's none and billboard allowed them. 2. make "buy album option". for example, $30T-shirt and you get option pay +$10 get CD or Digital Album. both are rule made by nielsen deacde ago, written officially. they can easily add it to current mess. |
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shayonce
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Post by shayonce on Oct 15, 2019 2:23:21 GMT -5
He streamed that album almost nonstop and got only 1 unit. That proves my point. yeah. and also they forgot that spotify or others have rule on those fan streaming. like nielsen stopping bulk buy, they don't count bulk streaming from 1 user. they have limits on how much they count from 1 person. this is why all those streaming party.. do nothing. |
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shayonce
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Posts: 2,234
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Post by shayonce on Oct 15, 2019 2:27:34 GMT -5
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Post by Naos on Oct 15, 2019 5:14:56 GMT -5
Debuts on Billboard 200:
1. SuperM - SuperM: The 1st Mini Album (EP)
2. Summer Walker - Over It
9. Brantley Gilbert - Fire & Brimstone
18. Dermot Kennedy - Without Fear
21. Wilco - Ode to Joy
28. The Avett Brothers - Closer Than Together
45. PeeWee Longway X Money Man - Long Money
52. Angel Olsen - All Mirrors
89. The Menzingers - Hello Exile
109. Bayside - Interrobang
111. Zach Williams - Rescue Story
134. Danny Brown - UknowhatimsayinΒΏ
173. Labrinth - Euphoria: Original Score From The HBO Series (Soundtrack)
177. DIIV - Deceiver
181. Issues - Beautiful Oblivion
184. MIKA - My Name Is Michael Holbrook
188. Tones and I - The Kids Are Coming
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 15, 2019 5:28:27 GMT -5
What the hell is a βmini albumβ? Donβt we just call those EPs or, going back to the 90s and early 2000s, cd singles? I see the album has five songs (plus two instrumentals). It wasnβt uncommon for cd singles to have 4 tracks, the main A-side and three b-sides, and that would be what would chart on the Hot 100.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 15, 2019 5:31:36 GMT -5
As for the bundles debate, Iβm not against bundles but agree that some of the suggestions above would remedy them. I think for me, a lot of it goes to fixing streaming. Does someone who streams something 20x a week have it counted 20x? Why not have it just count once? One per profile per tracking week. Are we tracking number of times played or number of people? If we count number of times played, I donβt see why people have an issue with fans buying or acquiring something multiple times and having those count as multiple units.
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shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,234
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Post by shayonce on Oct 15, 2019 6:19:52 GMT -5
What the hell is a βmini albumβ? Donβt we just call those EPs or, going back to the 90s and early 2000s, cd singles? I see the album has five songs (plus two instrumentals). It wasnβt uncommon for cd singles to have 4 tracks, the main A-side and three b-sides, and that would be what would chart on the Hot 100. It's just the name k-pop industry are using instead of EP. |
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Ryan
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Posts: 6,012
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Post by Ryan on Oct 15, 2019 7:00:57 GMT -5
What the hell is a βmini albumβ? Donβt we just call those EPs or, going back to the 90s and early 2000s, cd singles? I see the album has five songs (plus two instrumentals). It wasnβt uncommon for cd singles to have 4 tracks, the main A-side and three b-sides, and that would be what would chart on the Hot 100. It's just the name k-pop industry are using instead of EP. Yeah, it's different from a single with a few b-sides or unreleased tracks - it's still a whole new body of work. And I remember Julia Michaels also called her first EP as a "mini album". |
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Post by GivesYouHell on Oct 15, 2019 8:23:34 GMT -5
The reaction here kinda feels like the time Britney Spears's Blackout was expected to hit #1 but Billboard changed the rules for store-exclusive albums and Eagles landed #1 with over 700K vs Blackout's over 200K sales. I don't think there will be industry backlash, fan backlash maybe, unless Summer's label was really invested to hit #1, her album obviously will have more longevity. This was one of the greatest injustices that has occurred on this planet. No it wasnβt. Britney sold 500K less than The Eagles so why the hell should she have gotten the #1. The rule was ridiculous in the first please so Iβm glad it was changed: Anyway, Iβm actually all for Tour bundles being included especially to help older acts but this merch bundling mess is too much. |
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iHype.
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Posts: 4,714
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Post by iHype. on Oct 15, 2019 11:58:17 GMT -5
Acts benefitting from streaming comprising majority of their units are.... currently popular artists in mainstream with currently popular music.
Acts benefitting from bundles comprising majority of their units are... artists past their prime, niche artists, and other artists who's popularity is inflated for a matter of 1-2 weeks.
The chart is supposed to be reflect the former. I'm just still confused on why this even a weekly thing. Not liking streaming because artist X, Y, and Z you support fails to excel in it doesn't make it any less accurate in determining an album's consumption in the year 2019.
Another thing that's a mess with bundles is the fact I'm sure plenty of their fans bought multiple merchandise, meaning they got multiple digital downloads, and those multiple downloads counted. What person would need 3 different digital downloads of 1 album? Like there is no reasonable logic for counting multiple digital downloads for 1 person. You can't logically argue the music plays a role in someone buying a second or third t-shirt at that point.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 15, 2019 12:02:57 GMT -5
^One detail, though. Don't albums in the bundle actually have to be redeemed to be counted?
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c0ldasfire
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Joined: October 2008
Posts: 1,125
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Post by c0ldasfire on Oct 15, 2019 12:14:17 GMT -5
This was one of the greatest injustices that has occurred on this planet. No it wasnβt. Britney sold 500K less than The Eagles so why the hell should she have gotten the #1. The rule was ridiculous in the first please so Iβm glad it was changed: Anyway, Iβm actually all for Tour bundles being included especially to help older acts but this merch bundling mess is too much. You donβt change a rule at the last minute during a competition. |
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shayonce
2x Platinum Member
Joined: October 2008
Posts: 2,234
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Post by shayonce on Oct 15, 2019 12:30:42 GMT -5
^One detail, though. Don't albums in the bundle actually have to be redeemed to be counted? there is no redeem for merch.. which is why it is big mess. |
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TakeMe
Charting
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Posts: 350
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Post by TakeMe on Oct 15, 2019 13:59:47 GMT -5
So where is Lil Kimβs album at sale wise?
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 15, 2019 14:32:28 GMT -5
^Just above 2000 according to Hits lastest update from BuzzAngle Music earlier today.
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