How does playlisting work?

[Ty]

I mean on streaming platforms like Spotify and Apple Music, where their most popular playlists are playing a big part in pushing songs to the top nowadays. But how do these playlists work? How much power can labels and managements exercise on them? What are the differences between this and the so-called radio 'payola'?

[Au$tin]

Part label manipulation, part curated by Spotify.

Specifically for TTH, labels can incentivize Spotify to add/remove songs, but some of it is selected because the curators believe the songs belong there.

In the end, though, it's extremely similar to a radio playlist. If a song just isn't clicking or connecting with the audience, no amount of schmoozing is going to keep a song from being removed. And Spotify has it better than a radio station because they can see direct listener data such as skips, plays, retention, etc.

Having worked for a bit in the department responsible for getting music onto playlists, I can definitely attest to it not being an easy job and it's best to start with smaller playlists, even ones curated by users, and build up momentum for the song to make it more visible to the curators of the larger playlists before attempting to get it on there. It's truly fascinating and super reminiscent of how radio works too.

[nickd]

Nov 5, 2019 20:06:33 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Part label manipulation, part curated by Spotify.

Specifically for TTH, labels can incentivize Spotify to add/remove songs, but some of it is selected because the curators believe the songs belong there.

In the end, though, it's extremely similar to a radio playlist. If a song just isn't clicking or connecting with the audience, no amount of schmoozing is going to keep a song from being removed. And Spotify has it better than a radio station because they can see direct listener data such as skips, plays, retention, etc.

Having worked for a bit in the department responsible for getting music onto playlists, I can definitely attest to it not being an easy job and it's best to start with smaller playlists, even ones curated by users, and build up momentum for the song to make it more visible to the curators of the larger playlists before attempting to get it on there. It's truly fascinating and super reminiscent of how radio works too.

A lot of the songs on TTH and other big playlists making onto them from the day they're released though (mainly the ones by big artists). Like how does Spotify decide which song from a new album by a big artist makes it onto playlists? Does the label recommend songs based on what they're considering to make the next single? Or does Spotify already get enough data from the first few hours of availability that they'll sometimes make a decision to add a song based off that?

Do labels try to pitch songs to specific playlists? Or do they just contact Spotify and let them decide which playlists they want to put the song onto? Like with Taylor, some of the playlist placements were a bit weird, putting Delicate on "Workout" and "Pumped Pop" when other songs from reputation would have been a better fit, or putting Look What You Made Me Do on "Happy Chill Good Time Vibes".

Sometimes I feel like Spotify playlist curators jump the gun on some songs and focus on playlisting one new album track (and possible future single) from the album and ignore the rest of the album tracks, and it would be better to split the playlist support between a few songs and wait a few days to see how listeners respond.

[Caviar]

I like how TTH playlist new album cuts following an album. It provides a quick window in how the album sounds like. Lately I’ve been listening to more New Music Friday instead as it isn’t so pop heavy.

[Au$tin]

Nov 5, 2019 22:18:55 GMT -5 nickd said:

Nov 5, 2019 20:06:33 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Part label manipulation, part curated by Spotify.

Specifically for TTH, labels can incentivize Spotify to add/remove songs, but some of it is selected because the curators believe the songs belong there.

In the end, though, it's extremely similar to a radio playlist. If a song just isn't clicking or connecting with the audience, no amount of schmoozing is going to keep a song from being removed. And Spotify has it better than a radio station because they can see direct listener data such as skips, plays, retention, etc.

Having worked for a bit in the department responsible for getting music onto playlists, I can definitely attest to it not being an easy job and it's best to start with smaller playlists, even ones curated by users, and build up momentum for the song to make it more visible to the curators of the larger playlists before attempting to get it on there. It's truly fascinating and super reminiscent of how radio works too.

A lot of the songs on TTH and other big playlists making onto them from the day they're released though (mainly the ones by big artists). Like how does Spotify decide which song from a new album by a big artist makes it onto playlists? Does the label recommend songs based on what they're considering to make the next single? Or does Spotify already get enough data from the first few hours of availability that they'll sometimes make a decision to add a song based off that?

Do labels try to pitch songs to specific playlists? Or do they just contact Spotify and let them decide which playlists they want to put the song onto? Like with Taylor, some of the playlist placements were a bit weird, putting Delicate on "Workout" and "Pumped Pop" when other songs from reputation would have been a better fit, or putting Look What You Made Me Do on "Happy Chill Good Time Vibes".

Sometimes I feel like Spotify playlist curators jump the gun on some songs and focus on playlisting one new album track (and possible future single) from the album and ignore the rest of the album tracks, and it would be better to split the playlist support between a few songs and wait a few days to see how listeners respond.

Unfortunately I don't have much insight into this phenomenon. My best guess would be the label picking the song they want to push on release week and telling Spotify that's the one they want featured on New Music Friday and whatnot as those playlists update almost immediately so there wouldn't really be time to see which track is performing best to highlight. The ones that really have me questioning things are the non-singles that appear on TTH when an album drops. That would almost have to be label manipulation of some sort I would think as Spotify wouldn't have any data as to which album tracks to add there if they were wanting to add anything that wasn't a single anyway.

As far as big name singles, though, I guarantee Spotify always planned on adding them right away to TTH but label politics helps decide where it gets places. For example, I'm sure Spotify jumped at the opportunity to get the new Dua Lipa track on TTH as soon as possible, but her label talked to the right people and schmoozed their way to making sure it was added to the top rather than randomly thrown in somewhere in the middle.

I'm dying at those Taylor examples. Chill with some happy music... You know, like the Kim/Kanye revenge song with metaphors with snakes and murder over the "I'm Too Sexy" beat. Yup. Chill and happy.

For those I would also guess that's the label trying to get things playlisted as much as possible and the curators just going "sure" because it's a big name and not really checking to see if it really fits. I swear the curators for some of the mid level playlists like that are just going through the motions and have no clue what they're doing lol. But, yeah, when I was in that department it was definitely set up to where the label pitches songs directly to the specific playlists. Of course that could be different label to label. The label I was at was an independent one, so I'm sure that factored in heavily.

[#brayden]

Nov 6, 2019 0:10:03 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

The ones that really have me questioning things are the non-singles that appear on TTH when an album drops. That would almost have to be label manipulation of some sort I would think as Spotify wouldn't have any data as to which album tracks to add there if they were wanting to add anything that wasn't a single anyway.

I'm sure that's the case sometimes, but I think there are instances when Spotify adds non-singles from an album without label approval.

A recent-ish example is Clean Bandit with "Baby" and "Mama". After four consecutive hits, "Baby" is released and gets no exposure on any of the big playlists. The album comes out a month or so later and "Mama" is added to TTH shortly after. It ended up hindering both songs. "Baby" never got the streaming exposure that would have helped it chart higher, and the premature exposure of "Mama" basically killed its chances when it became the next single months after. I can't help but believe that had more to do with what Spotify wanted vs. what the label wanted.

[Ty]

Nov 6, 2019 13:13:34 GMT -5 #brayden said:

Nov 6, 2019 0:10:03 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

The ones that really have me questioning things are the non-singles that appear on TTH when an album drops. That would almost have to be label manipulation of some sort I would think as Spotify wouldn't have any data as to which album tracks to add there if they were wanting to add anything that wasn't a single anyway.

I'm sure that's the case sometimes, but I think there are instances when Spotify adds non-singles from an album without label approval.

A recent-ish example is Clean Bandit with "Baby" and "Mama". After four consecutive hits, "Baby" is released and gets no exposure on any of the big playlists. The album comes out a month or so later and "Mama" is added to TTH shortly after. It ended up hindering both songs. "Baby" never got the streaming exposure that would have helped it chart higher, and the premature exposure of "Mama" basically killed its chances when it became the next single months after. I can't help but believe that had more to do with what Spotify wanted vs. what the label wanted.

I have the same impression that Spotify enjoys certain autonomy for adding new music and unknown artists to major playlists. A lot of the times, it could even inform the label's next move. For example, Lizzo officially sending "Good as Hell" over her newer songs to radio, after Spotify placed it at TTH.

[rekz]

I think Pop Rising may be used as a sort of testing ground for TTH. Maybe it's just a natural thing, but I've noticed that most songs that aren't from instant-hit-making artists seem to spend a few weeks there before moving up.

[13]

I have an even dumber question - how much impact does a curated playlist like TTH have? Don't most people listen to their own playlists and albums from their faves?

[Au$tin]

Nov 6, 2019 23:19:56 GMT -5 13 said:

I have an even dumber question - how much impact does a curated playlist like TTH have? Don't most people listen to their own playlists and albums from their faves?

Today's Top Hits has 24,634,351 followers. Nearly 25 million worldwide actively follow the playlist, meaning 25 million people worldwide are exposed to those songs on a weekly basis. And that's not factoring in the people who might find the playlist and listen to it but not follow it. Getting playlisted is a big deal for musicians as it increases exposure in a very easy way. The effect of this playlist alone on Spotify's charts is very evident too. SHAED's "Trampoline" remix with ZAYN was put very high on Today's Top Hits earlier this week. The song is currently seeing huge gains on Spotify thanks to it. Likewise, we see songs that aren't on it tend to be lower on the chart. Another thing to factor in is not only are people going into the playlist and listening to it, but there are people that use these playlists to discover new music. They'll hear the song on the playlist and save it to their own playlists if they like it. They otherwise may not have ever heard said song if it weren't on the playlist. This leads to better longevity on streaming in the long run.

But it's not just Today's Top Hits that has this effect. (It's just the one with the biggest effect since it by far has the most followers.) Pop Rising has 1.8 million followers. New Music Friday has 3.4 million followers. Hot Rhythmic has 1.9 million followers. Rap Caviar has 12.3 million followers. Get Turnt has 5.7 million followers. Happy Hits has 4.8 million followers. Hell, the global top 50 chart playlist has 14.3 million followers! Getting playlisted on any of these, or the thousands of other playlists curated by both Spotify and regular users site wide, leads to massive exposure for music.

And it's not just new music! There are tons of throwback playlists all over the site too. If a song gets added to one of the larger ones that hasn't been there for awhile, it will actually see a significant increase in streams and sometimes these songs can pop up in the lower regions of the daily charts! For example, All Out 00s has 7.7 million followers. It was last updated on October 11. One of the songs re-added to it was Miley Cyrus's "Party in the U.S.A." and thanks to that, it entered the UK's top 200 for four days following the add.

[Mylo13 💜]

Nov 7, 2019 1:56:39 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Nov 6, 2019 23:19:56 GMT -5 13 said:

I have an even dumber question - how much impact does a curated playlist like TTH have? Don't most people listen to their own playlists and albums from their faves?

Today's Top Hits has 24,634,351 followers. Nearly 25 million worldwide actively follow the playlist, meaning 25 million people worldwide are exposed to those songs on a weekly basis. And that's not factoring in the people who might find the playlist and listen to it but not follow it.

Great post but just quickly following a playlist doesn't guarantee people listening to it right? I'm sure plenty of those people don't listen to it for whatever reason, especially given the playlists age.

[Au$tin]

Nov 7, 2019 2:22:28 GMT -5 Mylo13 💜 said:

Nov 7, 2019 1:56:39 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Today's Top Hits has 24,634,351 followers. Nearly 25 million worldwide actively follow the playlist, meaning 25 million people worldwide are exposed to those songs on a weekly basis. And that's not factoring in the people who might find the playlist and listen to it but not follow it.

Great post but just quickly following a playlist doesn't guarantee people listening to it right? I'm sure plenty of those people don't listen to it for whatever reason, especially given the playlists age.

This is true. There's no telling how many of those 25 million people either no longer use their accounts or don't check the playlist on a weekly basis. But the percentage that do is pretty decent given the effects it has on Spotify's charts. Another factor is where on a playlist a song is. The higher up it is, the higher chance of more people discovering it.

We can actually check this, though! On Spotify's desktop app, if you go under an artist's about page, you'll see the top 5 playlists where the artist is gathering the most listeners over the past month.

Here's the top 10 song on Today's Top Hits
1) Maroon 5 - Memories
2) Dua Lipa - Don't Start Now
3) Selena Gomez - Lose You to Love Me
4) SHAED - Trampoline [ZAYN remix]
5) Tones and I - Dance Monkey
6) Post Malone - Circles
7) Arizona Zervas - ROXANNE
8) Ariana Grande - Back to You
9) blackbear - hot girl summer
10) Harry Styles - Lights Up

Over on Maroon 5's page Today's Top Hits is their top playlist with 9,010,337 listeners this month coming from that playlist, accounting for 18.7% of their listeners this month. The rest:
Dua Lipa - 2,995,330 (9.8%)
Selena Gomez - 7,859,209 (19.9%)
SHAED - 6,838,610 (47.2%)
Tones and I - 8,599,618 (26.1%)
Post Malone - 9,415,825 (16.1%)
Arizona Zervas - 1,497,746 (27.1%)
Ariana Grande - 6,770,416 (14.5%)
blackbear - 7,590,486 (31.2%)
Harry Styles - 7,439,997 (32.5%)

It should also come as no surprise for all of those artists TTH is their top playlist this month seeing as it by far has the most listeners out of any playlist on Spotify.

But it's not just TTH that's important to an artist's exposure. Let's look at someone who doesn't have any hits to their name and has never been on any large Spotify playlist. Anna Ord. Anna has amassed 688 listeners this month. 81 of them, 12.7%, come from the Clean EDM playlist curated by someone named Nathaniel Openshaw. Anna's song, "Past Tense," is pretty far down on the playlist with 555 followers, yet 81 of those 555 (or 14.6%) have managed to make it all the way down to Anna's track, and that's at least 81 streams she otherwise would not have gotten. That may not seem like a lot, but it's a huge deal for an artist who only has 4 songs and one of them doesn't even have 1,000 streams yet.

[nickd]

Nov 7, 2019 2:22:28 GMT -5 Mylo13 💜 said:

Nov 7, 2019 1:56:39 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Today's Top Hits has 24,634,351 followers. Nearly 25 million worldwide actively follow the playlist, meaning 25 million people worldwide are exposed to those songs on a weekly basis. And that's not factoring in the people who might find the playlist and listen to it but not follow it.

Great post but just quickly following a playlist doesn't guarantee people listening to it right? I'm sure plenty of those people don't listen to it for whatever reason, especially given the playlists age.

Chartmetric.com actually tried to make an estimate of how many people listen to a playlist on a monthly basis and it's 4 million for Today's Top Hits. I think that's the number of people who listen to the average song on the playlist, so if someone listens to half the playlist over a month that would count as half a listener? But yeah, you're right, a lot of the playlist followers aren't actively listening to it on a regular basis.

My estimate looking at how much streams change before/after songs are added to a major playlist is that a song having 1 million playlist followers gives it about 10,000 daily streams but it depends on playlist position, how well it's received by the playlist followers and how long it's been on the playlist.