Billboard Hot 100: 12/14/2019

[tanooki]

Dec 8, 2019 20:00:09 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Dec 8, 2019 17:30:31 GMT -5 tanooki said:

Nah, AIWFCIY is a cultural behemoth, RATCT is just kinda... there trailing in 2nd place

Imagine. Calling "All I Want For Christmas Is You" a "cultural behemoth" while essentially downplaying the significance of a song that has been out TWICE as long (65 years) for being a mere 6 positions beneath it, with that gap surely to close. "RATCT" isn't "just kinda there", it has enough cultural significance to experience annual seasonal success along with "AIWFCIY" and has the potential to repeak nearly 65 years after its release. It is a staple and quite the feat.

I'm not downplaying RATCT, its certainly extremely successful. My point was that AIWFCIY has almost transcended just being a Christmas song, especially for people around my age. It very likely going #1 only cements that point. With this new chart era of Christmas songs being on the Hot 100 every December, Mariah #1 and Brenda #2 is how its been. My apologies if I came off downplaying the success of it, or the other holiday classics for that matter.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 8, 2019 20:06:33 GMT -5 tanooki said:

Dec 8, 2019 20:00:09 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Imagine. Calling "All I Want For Christmas Is You" a "cultural behemoth" while essentially downplaying the significance of a song that has been out TWICE as long (65 years) for being a mere 6 positions beneath it, with that gap surely to close. "RATCT" isn't "just kinda there", it has enough cultural significance to experience annual seasonal success along with "AIWFCIY" and has the potential to repeak nearly 65 years after its release. It is a staple and quite the feat.

I'm not downplaying RATCT, its certainly extremely successful. My point was that AIWFCIY has almost transcended just being a Christmas song, especially for people around my age. It very likely going #1 only cements that point. With this new chart era of Christmas songs being on the Hot 100 every December, Mariah #1 and Brenda #2 is how its been. My apologies if I came off downplaying the success of it, or the other holiday classics for that matter.

I don't feel "All I Want For Christmas Is You" has transcended being a Christmas song at all, but it has transcended the artist, much like with Brenda and "Rockin' Around The Christmas Tree". Both are huge seasonal favorites that are Christmas staples (like your "O Holy Night", "Blue Christmas", "The Christmas Song" etc), but that's the extent of their impact/success. I think both are very much still just Christmas songs, albiet some of the most successful.

[chartfreak]

I was thinking the other day that AIWFCIY has become such a monster at this time of year that it's not even a Mariah song anymore. Everyone loves it and even if you don't care for the artist it is part of the Holiday season. It is that Xmas song!

[jenglisbe]

Dec 8, 2019 19:11:42 GMT -5 garrettlen said:

Dec 8, 2019 17:30:31 GMT -5 tanooki said:

Nah, AIWFCIY is a cultural behemoth, RATCT is just kinda... there trailing in 2nd place

Totally disagree, but then I grew up before Mariah or AIWFCIY were even a thing on the charts so I remember Brenda Lee's song from way, way back.

Maybe it's different for people who literally can't remember a time when AIWFCIY wasn't already around.

Most people know Home Alone, though, and "RATCT" was used significantly in it (and other movies/shows).

Dec 8, 2019 20:00:09 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Dec 8, 2019 17:30:31 GMT -5 tanooki said:

Nah, AIWFCIY is a cultural behemoth, RATCT is just kinda... there trailing in 2nd place

Imagine. Calling "All I Want For Christmas Is You" a "cultural behemoth" while essentially downplaying the significance of a song that has been out TWICE as long (65 years) for being a mere 6 positions beneath it, with that gap surely to close. "RATCT" isn't "just kinda there", it has enough cultural significance to experience annual seasonal success along with "AIWFCIY" and has the potential to repeak nearly 65 years after its release. It is a staple and quite the feat.

The gap in positions perhaps, but there is still a significant gap in chart points. Again, "AIWFCIY" leads it in every metric so it's not like they're neck and neck.

[Lukas]

Billboard Hot 100 12/14/2019 Final Predictions:

Rank	Song	Radio	Sales	Weighted Streams	Total Points
1	Circles	92,022,556	17,400	19,843,297	29,275
2	Heartless	24,533,835	30,000	30,879,259	29,091
3	All I Want For Christmas Is You	33,729,323	7,800	32,748,161	27,951
4	Roxanne	23,977,444	5,000	33,951,986	26,893
5	Someone You Loved	85,255,639	11,000	16,575,801	25,063
6	Memories	76,977,444	16,800	14,078,568	23,182
7	Good As Hell	98,827,068	16,000	9,448,067	23,084
8	BOP	15,022,556	2,800	29,213,049	22,088
9	Dance Monkey	30,278,195	13,200	23,018,862	21,871
10	Lose You To Love Me	67,774,436	15,400	13,802,131	21,450

[gs]

I gave "Heartless" 10,000 physical sales and "Blinding Lights" 8,000, really have no idea though 

[candypaint]

I'm apart of the AIWFCIY "generation" I guess (started it's first re-enter in the charts when I was in high school) but growing up I always heard RATCT every holiday season since I can remember, and knew of it way before I ever heard AIWFCIY. It's the definitive Christmas classic to me. Not downplaying Mariah at all but Brenda spans across many more generations IMO.

[chartfreak]

Wow, is it really that close between 1 and 2?? Exciting!

[dovahduck]

The physical sales better pull through for "Heartless"... Anyway, regarding Christmas classics, as someone who grew up with parents from Latin America, when it comes to the biggest English Christmas in that region (and some other places internationally), generally it's 'Last Christmas". Which is the one I grew up hearing the most alongside "Rudolph the Red Nosed Raindeer". THE CHRISTMAS CLASSIC is mostly just dependent on what generation you/your parents are from and the region you live.

[nak]

love how we are pitting an artist from the late 1950s with an artist from the 90s in the year 2019

[nathanalbright]

Dec 8, 2019 21:14:42 GMT -5 nak said:

love how we are pitting an artist from the late 1950s with an artist from the 90s in the year 2019

I suppose it cannot be helped.  Things just cannot be enjoyed and appreciated for their own merits.

[lugus15]

Dec 8, 2019 20:40:59 GMT -5 gs said:

I gave "Heartless" 10,000 physical sales and "Blinding Lights" 8,000, really have no idea though 

I think radio will be a little bit closer, which may give the victory to Heartless.

[tanooki]

Oddly enough for me, I only recently heard RATCT. I think my family just doesn't like the song. It was always the Mariah albums, the Ronettes, and I had a santa toy that would sing Jingle Bell Rock. Still never hear RATCT (and a lot of other Christmas classics) at Christmas family gatherings lol.


I don't wanna get anyones hopes up, but I wouldn't put Mariah out of the question for #1 this year. It's streaming numbers are constantly being predicted as less than they are and I can totally see something like what happened with Old Town Road's first week at #1 (it was predicted to enter the top 10 around the 2-4 range, but it went straight to the #1 spot)

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 8, 2019 20:32:44 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

I was thinking the other day that AIWFCIY has become such a monster at this time of year that it's not even a Mariah song anymore. Everyone loves it and even if you don't care for the artist it is part of the Holiday season. It is that Xmas song!

This. Exactly what I meant by transcended the artist (in reference to Brenda as well as many other Christmas standards). Once the songs became holiday standards, they pretty much thrive on their own. "All I Want For Christmas Is You" totally independent of any promotion, mention, or anything from Mariah these days would still be huge every year, because the success isn't so much linked to the artist anymore, but the phonomenon of the song itself, which is an extremely rare feat itself. It almost feels as if Mariah is chasing its success even at this point. lol

[renfield75]

Dec 8, 2019 21:32:16 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Dec 8, 2019 20:32:44 GMT -5 chartfreak said:

I was thinking the other day that AIWFCIY has become such a monster at this time of year that it's not even a Mariah song anymore. Everyone loves it and even if you don't care for the artist it is part of the Holiday season. It is that Xmas song!

This. Exactly what I meant by transcended the artist (in reference to Brenda as well as many other Christmas standards). Once the songs became holiday standards, they pretty much thrive on their own. "All I Want For Christmas Is You" totally independent of any promotion, mention, or anything from Mariah these days would still be huge every year, because the success isn't so much linked to the artist anymore, but the phonomenon of the song itself, which is an extremely rare feat itself. It almost feels as if Mariah is chasing its success even at this point. lol

It's crazy to think that, a few decades from now, Mariah may solely be known as "the Christmas lady". The same way Brenda Lee's other non-Christmas hits have largely been forgotten. Granted Brenda Lee was never on the same level of commercial success as Mariah, but Bing Crosby certainly was. Arguably, no artist has ever dominated the way he did in the 1930s and 40s. And yet he's just "the Christmas guy" now. It happens.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 8, 2019 21:43:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

Dec 8, 2019 21:32:16 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

This. Exactly what I meant by transcended the artist (in reference to Brenda as well as many other Christmas standards). Once the songs became holiday standards, they pretty much thrive on their own. "All I Want For Christmas Is You" totally independent of any promotion, mention, or anything from Mariah these days would still be huge every year, because the success isn't so much linked to the artist anymore, but the phonomenon of the song itself, which is an extremely rare feat itself. It almost feels as if Mariah is chasing its success even at this point. lol

It's crazy to think that, a few decades from now, Mariah may solely be known as "the Christmas lady". The same way Brenda Lee's other non-Christmas hits have largely been forgotten. Granted Brenda Lee was never on the same level of commercial success as Mariah, but Bing Crosby certainly was. Arguably, no artist has ever dominated the way he did in the 1930s and 40s. And yet he's just "the Christmas guy" now. It happens.

As much as she loves Christmas she might not mind that! haha

[jenglisbe]

Dec 8, 2019 21:43:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

Dec 8, 2019 21:32:16 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

This. Exactly what I meant by transcended the artist (in reference to Brenda as well as many other Christmas standards). Once the songs became holiday standards, they pretty much thrive on their own. "All I Want For Christmas Is You" totally independent of any promotion, mention, or anything from Mariah these days would still be huge every year, because the success isn't so much linked to the artist anymore, but the phonomenon of the song itself, which is an extremely rare feat itself. It almost feels as if Mariah is chasing its success even at this point. lol

It's crazy to think that, a few decades from now, Mariah may solely be known as "the Christmas lady". The same way Brenda Lee's other non-Christmas hits have largely been forgotten. Granted Brenda Lee was never on the same level of commercial success as Mariah, but Bing Crosby certainly was. Arguably, no artist has ever dominated the way he did in the 1930s and 40s. And yet he's just "the Christmas guy" now. It happens.

Maybe decades from now since we don't know what music will be like, but We Belong Together, Always Be My Baby, Hero, and Without You all still get great numbers via streaming so...

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Dec 8, 2019 21:46:27 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Dec 8, 2019 21:43:22 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

It's crazy to think that, a few decades from now, Mariah may solely be known as "the Christmas lady". The same way Brenda Lee's other non-Christmas hits have largely been forgotten. Granted Brenda Lee was never on the same level of commercial success as Mariah, but Bing Crosby certainly was. Arguably, no artist has ever dominated the way he did in the 1930s and 40s. And yet he's just "the Christmas guy" now. It happens.

Maybe decades from now

That was kinda his whole point? Decent streaming today doesn't mean those songs will hold onto mainstream consciousness for another 20-30 years (especially when the artist is no longer cycling them promotionally). I mean almost all mainstream hits, even the largest, become irrelevant/unknown over time. In the grand scheme of things none of this will be remembered outside of data history anyway. lol

[campbellssoup]

Wow, throughout all of the predications so far, 6 different songs have been predicted to enter the top 10 next week. Not all 6 will make it but nevertheless it’s going to be an exciting reveal tomorrow.

[tuna]

I don't know why RATCT is the second biggest christmas song every year. It's one of my least favorite Christmas songs and doesn't seem to have the most relevance overall either. I would have expected Most Wonderful Time Of The Year or Last Christmas which are both some of my favorites.

Also it's criminal that Fairytale Of New York doesn't end up up there with the greats

[jenglisbe]

Dec 9, 2019 10:06:25 GMT -5 tuna said:

I don't know why RATCT is the second biggest christmas song every year. It's one of my least favorite Christmas songs and doesn't seem to have the most relevance overall either. I would have expected Most Wonderful Time Of The Year or Last Christmas which are both some of my favorites.

Also it's criminal that Fairytale Of New York doesn't end up up there with the greats

One thing that helps "RATCT" is it gets a lot of country play. Apart from the AC format, country is one that plays a lot of holiday music, and that helps "RATCT." It is also strong in other metrics, of course.

[Deleted]

Dec 8, 2019 21:54:40 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Dec 8, 2019 21:46:27 GMT -5 jenglisbe said:

Maybe decades from now

That was kinda his whole point? Decent streaming today doesn't mean those songs will hold onto mainstream consciousness for another 20-30 years (especially when the artist is no longer cycling them promotionally). I mean almost all mainstream hits, even the largest, become irrelevant/unknown over time. In the grand scheme of things none of this will be remembered outside of data history anyway. lol

Ironically I think that would be the very thing that keeps Mariah from becoming The Christmas Lady. 100 years from now, when not one person alive will have been around to remember when any of the artists out now were relevant chart toppers, Mariah's name will be one of the few that is memorialized in a music history book or class, for numerous non-Christmas stats. Bing pre-dated Billboard as we know it and Brenda just never had those kind of stats, so yeah, they become The Christmas Guy/Lady. A lot also has to do with what the collective chooses to remember of course, but I think that also benefits Mariah in a way that I don't think Bing and Brenda had. There seems to be an increased media interest in emphasizing her consistent career and her major part in it via her songwriting. The push to keep her legacy in the mainstream's conscious indefinitely is starting to reach beyond the need for Mariah herself to push that narrative. I have too many thoughts on that though so I'll stop.

As for the RATCT/AIWFCIY comparisons, I think it just feels different when you actually get to witness a song 'transcend.' I'm old enough (yet also, young enough) to remember when AIWFCIY was released and it's so fascinating to watch a contemporary holiday song grow into a standard decades later, when I'm an adult. RATCT otoh is one of those songs that was always around, already a standard; there's not much more I can say or think about it other than that it was featured in Home Alone (which, don't shoot me, but I'm not super crazy about that movie anyway) and I heard it a lot in the mall. I think this is what Tanooki really meant by RATCT just being 'there' - not that it's a non-factor, but that its presence is easy for many of us to take for granted and not be actively excited to watch grow.

White Christmas and I'll Be Home For Christmas are the actual most classic Christmas canon but that's never going to be reflected in chart points because Bing has to compete with all the covers. AIWFCIY is still in that phase where no one alive really wants to hear someone doing mediocre Mariah karaoke, so it keeps virtually all love to itself. Again, 100 years from now society will probably have moved on from feeling that way. But for now, there's something to be said for a song that is so singularly captivating that we only want to hear that one version.

[nathanalbright]

Dec 9, 2019 10:06:25 GMT -5 tuna said:

I don't know why RATCT is the second biggest christmas song every year. It's one of my least favorite Christmas songs and doesn't seem to have the most relevance overall either. I would have expected Most Wonderful Time Of The Year or Last Christmas which are both some of my favorites.

Also it's criminal that Fairytale Of New York doesn't end up up there with the greats

How many people just don't want to stream something about New York, though?

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

^Plus, remember that The Pogues' song is popular during the holidays in the UK. If you compare the holiday songs that are popular there and the US, you'll notice some songs that haven't even charted in the Holiday 100. They're mostly by British artists.

[twelvevinylrecords]

Heartless is number 1

[Deleted]

heartless pulled through

[jtd Thee Stallion]

AIWFCIY #3

[Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ]

Top 10

1.Heartless
2.Circles
3.All I Want For Christmas Is You
4.Someone You Loved
5.Memories
6.Good As Hell
7.Roxanne
8.Rockin' Around the Christmas Tree
9.Lose You To Love Me
10.10,000 Hours

[lazer]

🙂

[moonlite]

Guys, remember when several people on this forum swore the Weeknd wouldn’t debut top 5/10 and would “underperform” with his next single? Because he “flopped” with a producer collab and a tv show single? Welp