Billboard Hot 100: 10/10/2020

[iggyamo]

Oct 6, 2020 0:19:11 GMT -5 smallbubble said:

Did any one noticed that Billboard somehow managed to be self counter-intuitive with their three charts?

Global 200: WAP#1 Dynamite#2
Global 200 excl. US: WAP#4 Dynamite#1

So does that mean WAP is ahead of Dynamite in the Billboard 100? Nope

Billboard is becoming a fliping joke of a chart.

Radio is a factor on US but not global, and I’m pretty sure Dynamite has more radio

[iggyamo]

Oct 5, 2020 19:58:48 GMT -5 walt91 said:

Oct 5, 2020 19:56:36 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

Not a single Joji entry? I swear if he goes number 1 bubbling under again

It's certainly possible that something from Nectar charted, but I haven't seen anything confirmed yet

Probably not Daylight since Diplo has an artist page.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Oct 6, 2020 0:25:39 GMT -5 Naos said:

Oct 6, 2020 0:22:52 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

I meant that WAP would be the number one song if it weren't for sales. It's bigger in all other channels except sales

Okay, and "Dynamite" would probably be #1 if you got rid of audio streaming, can't just take out a category.

I wasn't taking out a category though. I was implying that sales are for some reason still weighted more heavily, which is why Dynamite and FRANCHISE are ahead of WAP.

[smallbubble]

Oct 6, 2020 0:37:09 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

Oct 6, 2020 0:19:11 GMT -5 smallbubble said:

Did any one noticed that Billboard somehow managed to be self counter-intuitive with their three charts?

Global 200: WAP#1 Dynamite#2
Global 200 excl. US: WAP#4 Dynamite#1

So does that mean WAP is ahead of Dynamite in the Billboard 100? Nope

Billboard is becoming a fliping joke of a chart.

Radio is a factor on US but not global, and I’m pretty sure Dynamite has more radio

I mean u can't just assume Pop songs are stronger on radio as this year we've seen quite a few popular Hip-hop songs reach Top 5 including the likes of Roxanne, The Box and Rockstar
Yesterday on Kworb Radio estimate:
WAP: 61.05
Dynamite: 35.59
And WAP would have a slightly higher mediabase-to-Nielsen multiplier as most of its audience are from Urban/Rythmic rather than Pop

[kacpi]

Oct 6, 2020 0:25:39 GMT -5 Naos said:

Oct 6, 2020 0:22:52 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

I meant that WAP would be the number one song if it weren't for sales. It's bigger in all other channels except sales

Okay, and "Dynamite" would probably be #1 if you got rid of audio streaming, can't just take out a category.

Ummm it's not the same thing tho

[iamsorare]

Where is the full hot.100? Billboard never has been so late.something happened?

[at40fansince1984]

Oct 6, 2020 5:13:11 GMT -5 iamsorare said:

Where is the full hot.100? Billboard never has been so late.something happened?

They've redesigned their site again I'm guessing that's the delay. The chart search isn't updated either.

[lights]

They've been this late before but not for a while.

[Naos]

Oct 6, 2020 0:44:08 GMT -5 @dremolus said:

I wasn't taking out a category though. I was implying that sales are for some reason still weighted more heavily, which is why Dynamite and FRANCHISE are ahead of WAP.

When you call a song that isn't higher on the charts "most popular", that is the implication, that sales just don't count when it comes to popularity in your view.

Oct 6, 2020 2:05:56 GMT -5 kacpi said:

Ummm it's not the same thing tho

Yes it is very much the same.

[iamsorare]

Oct 6, 2020 5:32:03 GMT -5 at40fansince1984 said:

Oct 6, 2020 5:13:11 GMT -5 iamsorare said:

Where is the full hot.100? Billboard never has been so late.something happened?

They've redesigned their site again I'm guessing that's the delay. The chart search isn't updated either.

no they are TOO late.another 'high by the beach' situation is coming lol

[Xander]

Oct 6, 2020 0:25:39 GMT -5 Naos said:

Oct 6, 2020 0:22:52 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

I meant that WAP would be the number one song if it weren't for sales. It's bigger in all other channels except sales

Okay, and "Dynamite" would probably be #1 if you got rid of audio streaming, can't just take out a category.

One category is being manipulated by stans, the other is supported by the gp. Not the same thing.

[HolidayGuy]

Where have I been? I must have overlooked how Billboard is obligated to make its charts so transparent that chart fans can predict the outcomes each and every week. :)

If the Travis Scott track had legit physical-singles sales- meaning, such items will be shipped out during the tracking week- then that is just as legit as any other component of the chart.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Oct 6, 2020 7:17:52 GMT -5 Naos said:

Oct 6, 2020 0:44:08 GMT -5 @dremolus said:

I wasn't taking out a category though. I was implying that sales are for some reason still weighted more heavily, which is why Dynamite and FRANCHISE are ahead of WAP.

When you call a song that isn't higher on the charts "most popular", that is the implication, that sales just don't count when it comes to popularity in your view.

Well yes sales shouldn't be counted as much as streams and radio. Billboard can and should keep sales...it should be weighted down to reflect the fact that most people consume music through streaming and/or radio. Why is WAP, which is collectively bigger than both Dynamite and FRANCHISE in airplay and streams, below them just because it's not as big as in sales?

[spicymapping]

here's some food for thought:



This is a graph of songs by my best estimate of percentage of points made up by streams. This is essentially what we would expect. Clearly, some songs are strong in this channel and some are weak, but there's no outliers. We can argue about what this means for fairness of songs at the top or bottom of this, but this is an unavoidable trend and exactly what we'd expect from a fair formula.


This is a graph of percentage of points made by radio. This is concerning. There is a very visible dropoff of songs that benefit immensely from radio and those that benefit not at all. The latter of which is sort of inevitable because some songs here are non-singles so obviously won't get radio play. A pain in the ass, sure, but just because of what radio is, it's obviously going to happen. The problem comes at the top: songs that have radio play as their sole driving engine clearly rise from the pack and show a concerning hint of radio manipulation. The good thing about radio is that while it does have problematic trends, the vast majority of songs benefit from moderate support from radio. Is there manipulation here? Certainly. But radio manages to regulate itself in a way that no songs get the sole benefit from this format. Obviously, shit needs to be fixed here, but sounding the payola as much as everyone does is ridiculous.


This is a graph of songs by percentage of points made up by sales. The highest percentage is 55.2% sales. The second highest is 52.9% sales. The third highest is 15.0% sales. I shouldn't need to tell you what those first two songs are. 98 out of the 100 songs on the Hot 100 see at most a moderate boost from sales. Songs in the 3-10 range gain a lot more percentage than lower down, which is heavily concerning - it's a very clear sign that this format isn't used by a large assortment of people, but only getting as high as 15% is really just a moderate issue. 2 out of 100 songs see the majority of their points coming from sales. It's one thing if this was happening in the lower ends of the charts - just a little issue that only the few people who give a shit about what's charting at #86 would be infuriated at. Of course, this is not happening at the lower end of the charts. This is the #1 and #2 songs in the country. This format is a fucking joke. You wanna know what the charts look like if you slash streams? Everything changes. You wanna know what the charts look like if you slash radio? Everything changes. You wanna know what the charts look like if you slash sales? 98 songs barely move. 2 lose over 50% of their points. The top 2 songs fall to 14 and 20 on the chart. Only one other song drops more than 10 spots. It drops from #70. Points are splitting hairs down there. Points are clear separations at the top. The top 2 songs still manage to drop over 10 spots. There is no argument to let this format run free. Raise the denominator. Reduce the sale limit to one per order including remixes. Kill website sales. Do something. Until then, this chart is nothing more than a pissing match for whichever artist you want to worship the most. Fix this.

[strongerq]

Oct 6, 2020 8:51:44 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Well yes sales shouldn't be counted as much as streams and radio. Billboard can and should keep sales...it should be weighted down to reflect the fact that most people consume music through streaming and/or radio. Why isn't WAP which is collectively bigger than both Dynamite and FRANCHISE in airplay and streams, below them just because it's not as big as in sales?

Since some people don't seem to understand show them with a picture:

The 3% decide what is #1 not the 85%.  L O G I C

P.S: This is from Nielsen Mid-Year Report

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Is the issue people are having purely with sales or is it with people who buy multiple copies of the same song?

[GW]

Oct 6, 2020 9:16:37 GMT -5 strongerq said:

Oct 6, 2020 8:51:44 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Well yes sales shouldn't be counted as much as streams and radio. Billboard can and should keep sales...it should be weighted down to reflect the fact that most people consume music through streaming and/or radio. Why isn't WAP which is collectively bigger than both Dynamite and FRANCHISE in airplay and streams, below them just because it's not as big as in sales?

Since some people don't seem to understand show them with a picture:

The 3% decide what is #1 not the 85%.  L O G I C

P.S: This is from Nielsen Mid-Year Report

If streaming is the way most people consume music, shouldn't the same apply to the album chart?  Logic tells me that if you weighted down sales for singles, you'd have to do the same for albums.  

Just curious what your take is on this, because to me, your logic comes across as saying people who still buy albums shouldn't be represented as much as people who stream the same song over and over, boosting album "sales".  See where I'm going with this?

I'm really not trying to argue, I know this means a lot to some of you based on how consumed and passionate you are about it.  It's just not making sense to me when I look at it in a bigger context.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Oct 6, 2020 9:38:42 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Is the issue people are having purely with sales or is it with people who buy multiple copies of the same song?

Stan mass buying wouldn't cause so much controversy if the system prevented this type of chart manipulation, which it doesn't.

[strongerq]

Oct 6, 2020 9:38:42 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Is the issue people are having purely with sales or is it with people who buy multiple copies of the same song?

I will talk for myself. Of course the second part is the biggest issue. But i also have an issue with the weighting of sales, it should be lowered. Noone is talking about not counting sales.

Here is why: (i have posted this 5 times already xD)

Billboard 250 paid streams = 1 sale
RIAA 150 paid streams = 1 sale
Rolling Stone 120 paid streams = 1 sale
UK chart 100 paid streams = 1 sale

[Gary]

How do you know that it doesn’t.

As far as I know there are filters in place for that sort of thing

[strongerq]

Oct 6, 2020 9:43:16 GMT -5 GW said:

If streaming is the way most people consume music, shouldn't the same apply to the album chart?  Logic tells me that if you weighted down sales for singles, you'd have to do the same for albums.  

Just curious what your take is on this, because to me, your logic comes across as saying people who still buy albums shouldn't be represented as much as people who stream the same song over and over, boosting album "sales".  See where I'm going with this?

I'm really not trying to argue, I know this means a lot to some of you based on how consumed and passionate you are about it.  It's just not making sense to me when I look at it in a bigger context.

OK again posting *this*

Billboard 250 paid streams = 1 sale
RIAA 150 paid streams = 1 sale
Rolling Stone 120 paid streams = 1 sale
UK chart 100 paid streams = 1 sale

This is for the Billboard Hot 100. You can see my issue. Right?

For Billboard 200:

10 track sales  = 1 album unit

1250 paid streams = 1 album unit

3750 free streams = 1 album unit

BASED on this logic 1 track sale needs to be 125 paid streams. BUT IT IS NOT. It is 250.

I think now you see the picture from my perspective.

[Baby Yoda Hot100Fan]

The Hot 100 chart has updated ... to a chartless webpage.

[lurker2]

... we cancelled Billboard?

[iamsorare]

Oct 6, 2020 10:02:34 GMT -5 Baby Yoda Hot100Fan said:

The Hot 100 chart has updated ... to a chartless webpage.

even billboard is ashamed that franchise went #1..they can't show the results!!

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Oct 6, 2020 9:47:23 GMT -5 strongerq said:

Oct 6, 2020 9:38:42 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Is the issue people are having purely with sales or is it with people who buy multiple copies of the same song?

I will talk for myself. Of course the second part is the biggest issue. But i also have an issue with the weighting of sales, it should be lowered. Noone is talking about not counting sales.

Here is why: (i have posted this 5 times already xD)

Billboard 250 paid streams = 1 sale
RIAA 150 paid streams = 1 sale
Rolling Stone 120 paid streams = 1 sale
UK chart 100 paid streams = 1 sale

But the issue, when it comes up, seems to almost always stem from the ability of stans to buy multiple copies of a physical single, usually through an artist’s website. Outside of that, do sales cause a perceived issue on the chart?

I would say the biggest issue, even more than multiple buyers of a song, is that single sales are only available for a limited time in limited titles. So you’ll have a new release with a single available for a few weeks and that song is going to get a boost regardless of what’s happening around it. It’s only doing better because it’s available in more formats, but that doesn’t necessarily mean it’s more popular. I’d say if anything, Billboard is moving back into a mid-90s scenario as a result of label/artist single availability except in this case it’s almost reverse. It’s effecting their credibility - or it should be.

[lights]

Quick, Billboard re-hire your whole IT team that you fired earlier in the year.

[Deleted]

You can't even see any of the genre charts right now, what is going on at Billboard?

[Gary]

I am sure it is nothing more than website maintenance

[lights]

Why would you do maintenance on the day everybody wants to look at your website.

[iggyamo]

Oct 6, 2020 10:24:15 GMT -5 lights said:

Why would you do maintenance on the day everybody wants to look at your website.

It’s honestly probably better for them as each refresh or check is considered a visit on their ads