Billboard Hot 100: 11/07/2020

[sheardbeard]

Oct 28, 2020 15:42:40 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 15:33:08 GMT -5 thegreatdivine said:

I still think Ariana takes the #1 but Luke easily has the better song and he would make history in Country music with a #1 debut. Ariana just scores yet another boring #1 debut with a weak single that will more than likely reach #1 the following week anyway.

Luke is overselling the "history" aspect -- Carrie Underwood already did debut at #1 on Hot 100 but that was before Hot Country Songs was just a mirror list of country songs on the Hot 100. It was an airplay-only chart, so obviously she didn't open at #1 there. 

I'm all for more variety at #1 but couldn't care less about Luke Combs' music. Haven't heard anything from him that made me want to check out an album yet.

At the time Carrie Underwood debuted at #1 though, she wasn’t yet established as a country artist, correct? Her #1 debut was due to her having just won American Idol, right?

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 18:25:17 GMT -5 sheardbeard said:

Oct 28, 2020 15:42:40 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Luke is overselling the "history" aspect -- Carrie Underwood already did debut at #1 on Hot 100 but that was before Hot Country Songs was just a mirror list of country songs on the Hot 100. It was an airplay-only chart, so obviously she didn't open at #1 there. 

I'm all for more variety at #1 but couldn't care less about Luke Combs' music. Haven't heard anything from him that made me want to check out an album yet.

At the time Carrie Underwood debuted at #1 though, she wasn’t yet established as a country artist, correct? Her #1 debut was due to her having just won American Idol, right?

correct. Carrie Underwood / "Inside Your Heaven" remain the first and only country artist / song to debut at #1 on the Hot 100 nonetheless.

[leoapp]

The last time a solo country song (Non-Idol) to hit no. 1 Hot 100?

[fridayteenage]

inside your heaven: US Hot Country Songs (Billboard) 52

wanegbt: US Hot Country Songs (Billboard) 1

[Gary]

Inside your heaven had a 12 week run at country radio even, not bad at all for a pop song

[kierz7]

Carrie Underwood was the winner of the biggest talent-competition show on television at the time where it was almost a given for the winners single to debut atop the charts. Three previous winners had already peaked in the top two.

The song itself, “Inside Your Heaven”, peaked at #52 on the Country charts so, no, it hardly counts, if at all.

Technically speaking, the last ‘Country’ solo artist to have a number one single on the Hot 100 and Country charts was Swift with “WANEGBT”.

If Combs were to debut atop the Hot 100, he’d become the first Male Country act to simultaneously be number one on both the Hot 100 & Country charts since Kenny Rogers with “Lady”, in 1980.

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 18:47:57 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Carrie Underwood was the winner of the biggest talent-competition show on television at the time where it was almost a given for the winners single to debut atop the charts.

The song itself, “Inside Your Heaven”, peaked at #52 on the Country charts so, no, it hardly counts, if at all.

??? It won "Top-Selling Country Single of the Year" at BBMAs and Carrie won "Country Single Sales Artist of the Year" mainly because of this song. Why does it not count? It was never sent to radio... and still peaked at #52. 

[Gary]

The Taylor Swift sing we are talking about also was played at country radio but spent even less time

chart run

13-19-18-19-17-15-21-36-out

If I remember right this was the song that transitioned her out of country and into pop

[fridayteenage]

Inside your Heaven peaked high on AC radio; an AC hit.

[kierz7]

Oct 28, 2020 18:55:32 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 18:47:57 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Carrie Underwood was the winner of the biggest talent-competition show on television at the time where it was almost a given for the winners single to debut atop the charts.

The song itself, “Inside Your Heaven”, peaked at #52 on the Country charts so, no, it hardly counts, if at all.

??? It won "Top-Selling Country Single of the Year" at BBMAs and Carrie won "Country Single Sales Artist of the Year" mainly because of this song. Why does it not count? It was never sent to radio... and still peaked at #52. 

“Inside Your Heaven” was sent to radio.

It was sent to AC, HAC and Country radio where it peaked at #12; #20; #47.

Country radio programmers just didn’t take to the song because, despite Underwood being pushed as a Country act, it was far more AC/Ballad-oriented. Her actual debut single, “Jesus Take The Wheel, fared much better and peaked atop Country radio and the main charts.

Also, the only reason why she won those BBMA’s is because “Inside Your Heaven” was literally the best selling [physical] single of 2005. It sold 610K units.

Gwen Stefani actually won the ‘Top Selling Digital Song’ award as “Hollaback Girl” 1M Digital units alone in 2005. As the Digital charts were still new, they were still separated from the main sales category.

I suppose you could include it however. I just don’t know if it belongs in the group of country hits.

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 19:15:56 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Oct 28, 2020 18:55:32 GMT -5 kimberly said:

??? It won "Top-Selling Country Single of the Year" at BBMAs and Carrie won "Country Single Sales Artist of the Year" mainly because of this song. Why does it not count? It was never sent to radio... and still peaked at #52. 

“Inside Your Heaven” was sent to radio.

It was sent to AC, HAC and Country radio where it peaked at #12; #20; #47.

Country radio programmers just didn’t take to the song because, despite Underwood being pushed as a Country act, it was far more AC/Ballad-oriented. Her actual debut single, “Jesus Take The Wheel, fared much better and peaked atop Country radio and the main charts.

Also, the only reason why she won those BBMA’s is because “Inside Your Heaven” was literally the best selling [physical] single of 2005. It sold 610K units.

Gwen Stefani actually won the ‘Top Selling Digital Song’ award as “Hollaback Girl” 1M Digital units alone in 2005. As the Digital charts were still new, they were still separated from the main sales category.

I don't know what you're telling me. She won Top-Selling COUNTRY Single. Wikipedia says it was NOT sent to Country radio. I guess I'll take your word for it and just not count it as country then. ok.

[kierz7]

Oct 28, 2020 18:58:17 GMT -5 Gary said:

The Taylor Swift sing we are talking about also was played at country radio but spent even less time

chart run

13-19-18-19-17-15-21-36-out

If I remember right this was the song that transitioned her out of country and into pop

How did “WANEGBT” top the country charts?

Digital sales?

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 19:21:53 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Oct 28, 2020 18:58:17 GMT -5 Gary said:

The Taylor Swift sing we are talking about also was played at country radio but spent even less time

chart run

13-19-18-19-17-15-21-36-out

If I remember right this was the song that transitioned her out of country and into pop

How did “WANEGBT” top the country charts?

Digital sales?

In 2012, Billboard changed the format of the Country charts so that it reflects where songs are on the Hot 100. This happened after WANEGBT's run at #1 on Hot 100 but early enough in its chart run that it shot up 21-1 on Hot Country Songs.

[amid]

In that video Luke Combs doesn't say his could be the first country song to debut at #1 on the H100, he says it would be the first country song to hit #1 period.

No way that's true right??

[Deleted]

Oct 28, 2020 19:38:21 GMT -5 amid said:

In that video Luke Combs doesn't say his could be the first country song to debut at #1 on the H100, he says it would be the first country song to hit #1 period.

No way that's true right??

Even as a self-professed Luke Combs stan, I must correct him.

[iggyamo]

Oct 28, 2020 19:38:21 GMT -5 amid said:

In that video Luke Combs doesn't say his could be the first country song to debut at #1 on the H100, he says it would be the first country song to hit #1 period.

No way that's true right??

OTR was the longest running number 1

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 19:44:05 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

Oct 28, 2020 19:38:21 GMT -5 amid said:

In that video Luke Combs doesn't say his could be the first country song to debut at #1 on the H100, he says it would be the first country song to hit #1 period.

No way that's true right??

OTR was the longest running number 1

oh let's not start with how r*cist it is that "We Are Never Getting Back Together" is country but "OTR" is... r&b/hip-hop?? somehow?

[GP]

Oct 28, 2020 18:55:32 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 18:47:57 GMT -5 kierz7 said:

Carrie Underwood was the winner of the biggest talent-competition show on television at the time where it was almost a given for the winners single to debut atop the charts.

The song itself, “Inside Your Heaven”, peaked at #52 on the Country charts so, no, it hardly counts, if at all.

??? It won "Top-Selling Country Single of the Year" at BBMAs and Carrie won "Country Single Sales Artist of the Year" mainly because of this song. Why does it not count? It was never sent to radio... and still peaked at #52. 

yeah only because sexist country radio doesnt play it, doesnt mean it isnt country

[Au$tin]

Oct 28, 2020 19:49:40 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 19:44:05 GMT -5 iggyamo said:

OTR was the longest running number 1

oh let's not start with how r*cist it is that "We Are Never Getting Back Together" is country but "OTR" is... r&b/hip-hop?? somehow?

I don't think that's racist at all. Let's not get all social justice warrior here. For one, OTR isn't country. It's a trap song with country influences. It's not any more of a country song than half of Red. We all know why Taylor Swift's first pop single charted on country, and it had nothing to do with race. It's because it was Taylor Swift. Looking at it now with 7 more years of Taylor's career and evolution of the country genre behind us, we can easily recognize how dumb that was, but at the time of release, it was the biggest country musician of the time releasing a new track that blended the two genres of country and pop into a blurry mess. Billboard was far from the only service to categorize the track as country. WANEGBT really wasn't a huge departure from country of the time. It really wasn't until the song brick walled at country radio when everyone started to finally agree on its true genre classification, including Taylor and her team themselves. This is why it's much more correct to say IKYWT was Taylor's first true pop single because, well, it was. It was truly her first non-ambiguous pop single.

With OTR, it really was clear to everyone involved in country how far it was from being a true country song. Remove the forced exaggerated twang in Lil Nas X's vocal and the fact that a has been country star was on the remix and what do you have? Undeniably a trap song no different than what the Soundcloud rappers of the time were releasing. I cannot stress enough how non-country OTR was and still is. The decision to leave it off of the country charts is perfectly just in my eyes and ears. The decision to let WANEGBT chart on country was questionable at best, but justifiable in context. These two situations are not related and should not be compared.

A much more apt comparison is Meant to Be, not WANEGBT. (Which, for all intents and purposes, I don't consider to be a country song either and I believe it should never had hit Billboard's definition of a country chart.)

In the end, though, it doesn't really matter. The country industry as a whole despises the country chart, most people agree all of the genre charts are pointless and stupid, and I personally believe classifying songs by genre is never going to be an exact science because most music borrows elements from several genres at once and pinpointing the main genre to classify a song as is just... meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, even if we exclude OTR as a country song, Luke is still very much incorrect about it being the first country song to hit #1 on the Hot 100. "9 to 5" anyone?

[rosalina4812]

Twitter is making big noise because Twice, a kpop girl group, has a decent shot at charting this week. They only need 22 points. That would make them the fourth kpop group ever to chart on the Hot 100.

[fridayteenage]

The sexist country radio that made Jesus, Remember, Cheats, Wasted, Small, Girl, Name, Dream, Told, Cowboy, Home, Undo, Mama's, Good, Blown, Cadillacs, See, Guns, Smoke, Heartbeat, Church, Laundry top 2?

[Au$tin]

Oct 28, 2020 20:14:26 GMT -5 fridayteenage said:

The sexist country radio that made Jesus, Remember, Cheats, Wasted, Small, Girl, Name, Dream, Told, Cowboy, Home, Undo, Mama's, Good, Blown, Cadillacs, See, Guns, Smoke, Heartbeat, Church, Laundry top 2?

I don't think it was sexism that held IYH back on country radio so much as it was the fact that it was an Idol single from a musician that hadn't yet been marketed towards the genre before. Carrie was never touted as a country singer until after IYH, right? Like when she finally began work on her debut and it was finally clear what genre her career would focus in?

I can only think of three Idol singles that had any sort of major impact on radio.

[jodakyellow]

^ I could go either way on the OTR discourse. Knowing what I know of Lil Nas X’s sense of humor, it seems like he made a country song with the express purpose of trolling the country community. I’d guess he was thrilled on some level that it forced a conversation about genre and race, even if he never had serious intent to be a country star in the traditional sense.

All that said, I get more country from OTR than I do from WANEGBT, but the vibes I personally feel from a song are not Billboard’s criteria.

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 20:12:30 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

Oct 28, 2020 19:49:40 GMT -5 kimberly said:

oh let's not start with how r*cist it is that "We Are Never Getting Back Together" is country but "OTR" is... r&b/hip-hop?? somehow?

I don't think that's racist at all. Let's not get all social justice warrior here. For one, OTR isn't country. It's a trap song with country influences. It's not any more of a country song than half of Red. We all know why Taylor Swift's first pop single charted on country, and it had nothing to do with race. It's because it was Taylor Swift. Looking at it now with 7 more years of Taylor's career and evolution of the country genre behind us, we can easily recognize how dumb that was, but at the time of release, it was the biggest country musician of the time releasing a new track that blended the two genres of country and pop into a blurry mess. Billboard was far from the only service to categorize the track as country. WANEGBT really wasn't a huge departure from country of the time. It really wasn't until the song brick walled at country radio when everyone started to finally agree on its true genre classification, including Taylor and her team themselves. This is why it's much more correct to say IKYWT was Taylor's first true pop single because, well, it was. It was truly her first non-ambiguous pop single.

With OTR, it really was clear to everyone involved in country how far it was from being a true country song. Remove the forced exaggerated twang in Lil Nas X's vocal and the fact that a has been country star was on the remix and what do you have? Undeniably a trap song no different than what the Soundcloud rappers of the time were releasing. I cannot stress enough how non-country OTR was and still is. The decision to leave it off of the country charts is perfectly just in my eyes and ears. The decision to let WANEGBT chart on country was questionable at best, but justifiable in context. These two situations are not related and should not be compared.

A much more apt comparison is Meant to Be, not WANEGBT. (Which, for all intents and purposes, I don't consider to be a country song either and I believe it should never had hit Billboard's definition of a country chart.)

In the end, though, it doesn't really matter. The country industry as a whole despises the country chart, most people agree all of the genre charts are pointless and stupid, and I personally believe classifying songs by genre is never going to be an exact science because most music borrows elements from several genres at once and pinpointing the main genre to classify a song as is just... meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, even if we exclude OTR as a country song, Luke is still very much incorrect about it being the first country song to hit #1 on the Hot 100. "9 to 5" anyone?

you lost me at "social justice warrior"

[kierz7]

Oct 28, 2020 20:22:30 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 20:12:30 GMT -5 Au$tin said:

I don't think that's racist at all. Let's not get all social justice warrior here. For one, OTR isn't country. It's a trap song with country influences. It's not any more of a country song than half of Red. We all know why Taylor Swift's first pop single charted on country, and it had nothing to do with race. It's because it was Taylor Swift. Looking at it now with 7 more years of Taylor's career and evolution of the country genre behind us, we can easily recognize how dumb that was, but at the time of release, it was the biggest country musician of the time releasing a new track that blended the two genres of country and pop into a blurry mess. Billboard was far from the only service to categorize the track as country. WANEGBT really wasn't a huge departure from country of the time. It really wasn't until the song brick walled at country radio when everyone started to finally agree on its true genre classification, including Taylor and her team themselves. This is why it's much more correct to say IKYWT was Taylor's first true pop single because, well, it was. It was truly her first non-ambiguous pop single.

With OTR, it really was clear to everyone involved in country how far it was from being a true country song. Remove the forced exaggerated twang in Lil Nas X's vocal and the fact that a has been country star was on the remix and what do you have? Undeniably a trap song no different than what the Soundcloud rappers of the time were releasing. I cannot stress enough how non-country OTR was and still is. The decision to leave it off of the country charts is perfectly just in my eyes and ears. The decision to let WANEGBT chart on country was questionable at best, but justifiable in context. These two situations are not related and should not be compared.

A much more apt comparison is Meant to Be, not WANEGBT. (Which, for all intents and purposes, I don't consider to be a country song either and I believe it should never had hit Billboard's definition of a country chart.)

In the end, though, it doesn't really matter. The country industry as a whole despises the country chart, most people agree all of the genre charts are pointless and stupid, and I personally believe classifying songs by genre is never going to be an exact science because most music borrows elements from several genres at once and pinpointing the main genre to classify a song as is just... meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Besides, even if we exclude OTR as a country song, Luke is still very much incorrect about it being the first country song to hit #1 on the Hot 100. "9 to 5" anyone?

you lost me at "social justice warrior"

Right! 💀

For anyone who didn’t see the blatant racial bias in “OTR’s” situation, irrespective of how ‘innocent’ then, well...

[kimberly]

Oct 28, 2020 20:18:41 GMT -5 jodakyellow said:

^ I could go either way on the OTR discourse. Knowing what I know of Lil Nas X’s sense of humor, it seems like he made a country song with the express purpose of trolling the country community. I’d guess he was thrilled on some level that it forced a conversation about genre and race, even if he never had serious intent to be a country star in the traditional sense.

All that said, I get more country from OTR than I do from WANEGBT, but the vibes I personally feel from a song are not Billboard’s criteria.

the issue is, Billboard doesn't have set criteria—they let OTR reach #19 on Country before deciding it was too... "r&b/hip-hop" for it. if you know what I mean.

[jodakyellow]

Oct 28, 2020 20:34:19 GMT -5 kimberly said:

Oct 28, 2020 20:18:41 GMT -5 jodakyellow said:

^ I could go either way on the OTR discourse. Knowing what I know of Lil Nas X’s sense of humor, it seems like he made a country song with the express purpose of trolling the country community. I’d guess he was thrilled on some level that it forced a conversation about genre and race, even if he never had serious intent to be a country star in the traditional sense.

All that said, I get more country from OTR than I do from WANEGBT, but the vibes I personally feel from a song are not Billboard’s criteria.

the issue is, Billboard doesn't have set criteria—they let OTR reach #19 on Country before deciding it was too... "r&b/hip-hop" for it. if you know what I mean.

Ahhhh I always forget that it charted on Country until it didn’t... in my head it just never got let onto the chart. Yes that makes a huge difference in how one reads the situation

[jebsib]

A number of Country Songs have peaked at #1 on the Hot 100. Not a ton in the last 40 years.
Carrie's Inside Your Heaven had a country twang that was not evident in other AI coronation songs, and got immediate unsolicited country airplay.
She was also being teed up by Simon during that season to get in the country lane.
Given the show's juggernaut ratings that year, it was clear to the GP that her single was not in the pop / rock vein that Bo Bice's was.
I don't see why there is that much confusion.

[nak]

I'm pretty sure Inside Your Heaven is the most recent #1 song I have never heard. If a wasn't a chart stalker I'd never know it lol. 

[jodakyellow]

Oct 28, 2020 21:44:08 GMT -5 nak said:

I'm pretty sure Inside Your Heaven is the most recent #1 song I have never heard. If a wasn't a chart stalker I'd never know it lol. 

I refuse to acknowledge a world in which there are people who never had Some Hearts on CD