tanooki
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2019 Breakthrough
lucia gta 6
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Posts: 10,115
Pronouns: they/she/fae
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Post by tanooki on Oct 27, 2020 11:37:34 GMT -5
this is the greatest fucking thing i have ever seen
join the chart discord please: discord.gg/talkofthecharts
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Post by thegreatdivine on Oct 27, 2020 12:00:42 GMT -5
Incredible work strongerq. • Rihanna is so close to surpassing Whitney Houston. With #R9 (if it’s as big as “ANTI” or bigger) then she should easily climb to #8 and then even #7. The gaps starting with Janet Jackson and upwards are too large however so it’ll definitely take some time for anyone new to penetrate the top six at all. • Drake has now surpassed Usher and is the biggest Male Hot 100 artist this century. 👏🏿 • Nicki Minaj still hasn’t entered the top 100 despite 114 entries. At this point, Cardi B could enter before her. 💀 • Paul McCartney + The Beatles & Diana Ross + The Supremes = Bonafide Legends. The breakdown between Nicki, Rihanna and Drake. Nicki has a lot of entries but hasn't spent nearly as many weeks in the top 10/#1 as Rihanna/Drake have. Most of Nicki's entries are also features. Nicki Minaj2 #1 hits. 19 top 10 hits. 2 weeks at #1. 139 weeks in the top 10. 113 entries [65 as a featured act]. 1371 cumulative weeks charting. Rihanna 14 #1 hits. 31 top 10 hits. 60 weeks at #1. 360 weeks in the top 10. 62 entries [15 as a featured act]. 1317 cumulative weeks charting. Drake 7 #1 hits. 42 top 10 hits. 50 weeks at #1. 285 weeks in the top 10. 228 entries [72 as a featured act] 2485 cumulative weeks charting. |
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HolidayGuy
Diamond Member
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Posts: 33,914
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Post by HolidayGuy on Oct 27, 2020 16:40:56 GMT -5
So, do we think Billboard use a similar points formula to this, or one with lesser values?
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jodakyellow
Platinum Member
Joined: July 2018
Posts: 1,535
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Post by jodakyellow on Oct 27, 2020 23:24:35 GMT -5
I just noticed the picture you gave R Kelly lmaooo
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million
Charting
Banned
Joined: May 2020
Posts: 267
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Post by million on Oct 28, 2020 13:45:14 GMT -5
Wow I‘d have thought Beyoncé would land in the top 10 with DC points added. I mean she would be in the top 10 if she actually cared about stuff like that. Beyoncé and her old band are two different acts, why add them up? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if she didn't care she wouldn't have remixed 3 hits in the last 3 years with the purpose of being credited.
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 28, 2020 13:49:00 GMT -5
Wow I‘d have thought Beyoncé would land in the top 10 with DC points added. I mean she would be in the top 10 if she actually cared about stuff like that. Beyoncé and her old band are two different acts, why add them up? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if she didn't care she wouldn't have remixed 3 hits in the last 3 years with the purpose of being credited.
Why wouldn’t it make sense to some degree? She was present in the group. Their accomplishment count as part of her accomplishments. |
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kalmanta
Gold Member
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Posts: 787
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Post by kalmanta on Oct 28, 2020 15:32:44 GMT -5
Beyoncé and her old band are two different acts, why add them up? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if she didn't care she wouldn't have remixed 3 hits in the last 3 years with the purpose of being credited.
Why wouldn’t it make sense to some degree? She was present in the group. Their accomplishment count as part of her accomplishments. Lol at calling her „present“, let’s be honest, she carried the whole damn group. Thanks to her father being the manager, but also the talent and presence were visible early on. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 28, 2020 19:30:17 GMT -5
Why wouldn’t it make sense to some degree? She was present in the group. Their accomplishment count as part of her accomplishments. Lol at calling her „present“, let’s be honest, she carried the whole damn group. Thanks to her father being the manager, but also the talent and presence were visible early on. That’s what I meant. She was there. Why shouldn’t those years count toward her achievements? |
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jodakyellow
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Post by jodakyellow on Oct 28, 2020 20:12:48 GMT -5
It comes down to whether we’re ranking credited acts — which are somewhat abstract as a concept, since bands break up, solo artists rebrand, and non-performers whose work play a major role in a song’s success don’t even come into play here — or people. What “top artists” lists almost always do is mostly ranking credited performers with some tidying-up for name changes, which tends to satisfy most of us. If we combine Destiny’s Child and Beyonce, why not split The Beatles’ points four ways? Why not dole out points to artists who wrote prolifically for other performers? Not saying anyone’s right or wrong; just asking the philosophical questions lol
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 28, 2020 20:18:53 GMT -5
^On the same note. Would Lady A's song that debuted this week in the Hot 100 be combined with all their former songs? If so, under Lady A or Lady Antebellum. It is easy to see using this simple example, how quickly things can get complicated.
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strongerq
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Joined: August 2019
Posts: 1,506
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Post by strongerq on Oct 28, 2020 20:23:12 GMT -5
^ Jefferson Starship
Jefferson Airplane
Starship
all count as 1 band. They all have different members. with some names like David Freiberg being in all 3 iterations
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jodakyellow
Platinum Member
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Posts: 1,535
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Post by jodakyellow on Oct 28, 2020 20:24:47 GMT -5
^ Jefferson Starship Jefferson Airplane Starship all count as 1 band And that’s with line-up changes, too, isn’t it? |
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Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ
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Posts: 11,057
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Post by Ｓｏｕｎｄｃｌ🕤ｃｋ on Oct 28, 2020 20:34:10 GMT -5
I just realized Paul is #12 and #1 with The Beatles! A LIVING LEGEND, we really should appreciate him more.
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million
Charting
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Joined: May 2020
Posts: 267
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Post by million on Oct 29, 2020 0:10:14 GMT -5
Beyoncé and her old band are two different acts, why add them up? It doesn't make any sense. Also, if she didn't care she wouldn't have remixed 3 hits in the last 3 years with the purpose of being credited.
Why wouldn’t it make sense to some degree? She was present in the group. Their accomplishment count as part of her accomplishments. Her band's achievements =/= her solo career achievements. Beyoncé is Beyoncé, DC is DC, let's not mix things up. |
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Post by chingaling on Oct 29, 2020 7:17:09 GMT -5
Lol at calling her „present“, let’s be honest, she carried the whole damn group. Thanks to her father being the manager, but also the talent and presence were visible early on. That’s what I meant. She was there. Why shouldn’t those years count toward her achievements? It's simple. It's just about who gets credited in a song. "Sicko mode" won't count towards Drake, just as "Diamonds" doesn't count for Janet Jackson. "Bootylicious" was a number one single for Destiny's Child, not Destiny's Child featuring Beyoncé. |
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Oct 29, 2020 8:26:31 GMT -5
It's simple. It's just about who gets credited in a song. "Sicko mode" won't count towards Drake, just as "Diamonds" doesn't count for Janet Jackson. "Bootylicious" was a number one single for Destiny's Child, not Destiny's Child featuring Beyoncé. Yea it comes down to how it was credited.
The same situation:
Rick Nelson And The Stone Canyon Band - this counts 100% for Ricky.
Gloria Estefan & Miami Sound Machine - again 100% for Gloria
Now i get what Rose is saying: is it "fair" for Beyonce to get 0% from DC while Ricky Nelson gets his points for a song with his band (same with Gloria and dozen of others).
From a perspective of how a song is credited it is fair. it isnt Beyonce & Destiny's Child - they aren't her suport vocalists/band.
But from a perspective that Beyonce contribute for the success of DC, it is not fair that she gets 0%.
Billboard will forever stick with their crediting (as they should honesty - more consistency that way). But it never will be fair, because artists careers are split between 2 acts. The Beatles, Paul McCartney.
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Post by Baby Yoda Hot100Fan on Oct 29, 2020 9:17:17 GMT -5
^Then there were all those songs that had Diana and The Supremes. And Careless Whisper with Wham! featuring George Michael.
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million
Charting
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Post by million on Oct 29, 2020 10:54:45 GMT -5
I think Just Dance points are wrong. Applying 100% to its points we have 808,734 points, staying below Poker Face, however, Just Dance is listed as Lady Gaga's biggest hit on Hot 100 according to Billboard.
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Oct 29, 2020 11:00:38 GMT -5
I think Just Dance points are wrong. Applying 100% to its points we have 808,734 points, staying below Poker Face, however, Just Dance is listed as Lady Gaga's biggest hit on Hot 100 according to Billboard. Well 866,500 total (70% == 606,550)
Poker Face is at 814,200.
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million
Charting
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Post by million on Oct 29, 2020 11:02:28 GMT -5
I think Just Dance points are wrong. Applying 100% to its points we have 808,734 points, staying below Poker Face, however, Just Dance is listed as Lady Gaga's biggest hit on Hot 100 according to Billboard. Well 866,500 total (70% == 606,550)
Poker Face is at 814,200.
Yes I realized that now, I thought that the guest artist would only have 25% of the points instead of 30%. |
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strongerq
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Post by strongerq on Oct 29, 2020 11:04:48 GMT -5
Yes I realized that now, I thought that the guest artist would only have 25% of the points instead of 30%. This is how i did the credits. Not saying they are 100% accurate reply 25
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million
Charting
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Post by million on Oct 29, 2020 11:05:56 GMT -5
Yes I realized that now, I thought that the guest artist would only have 25% of the points instead of 30%. This is how i did the credits. Not saying they are 100% accurate reply 25
Great stuff! Thank u. |
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jodakyellow
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Post by jodakyellow on Oct 29, 2020 12:05:08 GMT -5
That’s what I meant. She was there. Why shouldn’t those years count toward her achievements? It's simple. It's just about who gets credited in a song. But it isn’t that simple, as the examples below your post prove, and as several of us have pointed out. There are plenty of judgment calls made to combine billings that are essentially the same act even when the credit differs. Edit to add: to clarify again, this is not a criticism of strongerq, who made the very clean and sensible decision to stick with what Billboard had already decided for these acts |
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Oct 29, 2020 14:45:16 GMT -5
• Beyoncé & Destiny’s Child are two separate acts.
• Michael Jackson and Jackson 5 are two separate acts.
• Diana Ross and The Supremes are two separate acts (even when the group was billed under DR & TS).
If we’re going to credit the lead artist of these groups with their overall group totals then we also need to, individually, credit Kelly Rowland, Tito Jackson, Mary Wilson etc. and other group members.
Those who made the Top 10, 20 etc. as a SOLOIST did so on the basis of their own solo careers.
Also...
From what I see on Twitter, the narrative that Beyonce could have made the top 10 if she “cared” about her singles success is genuinely hilarious. I’m sure if she did she would’ve conveniently climbed two dozen positions or so.💀
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kierz7
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Post by kierz7 on Oct 29, 2020 14:56:53 GMT -5
^On the same note. Would Lady A's song that debuted this week in the Hot 100 be combined with all their former songs? If so, under Lady A or Lady Antebellum. It is easy to see using this simple example, how quickly things can get complicated. Lady A would still be credited under their songs as Lady Antebellum. It’s similar to how ‘The Supremes’ became ‘Diana Ross & The Supremes’ or ‘The Miracles’ became ‘Smokey Robinson & The Miracles’ I believe. Even when all original members were no longer a part of the group, ‘The Supremes’ were still called such by the mid-1970’s. I’m sure their minuscule points from that era goes toward the groups overall total. |
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kalmanta
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Post by kalmanta on Oct 29, 2020 15:40:56 GMT -5
From what I see on Twitter, the narrative that Beyonce could have made the top 10 if she “cared” about her singles success is genuinely hilarious. I’m sure if she did she would’ve conveniently climbed two dozen positions or so.💀 She even explained in an interview why she chose to focus more on the album-making (creating a whole body of work) and visual aspect of her songs / performances in addition to also using her voice for better representation of her folks and heritage from the black South. It’s just what she felt was right at that point in her career. She could’ve made Sasha Fierce Part II, hopping on the EDM trend etc.    |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 29, 2020 16:41:41 GMT -5
It comes down to whether we’re ranking credited acts — which are somewhat abstract as a concept, since bands break up, solo artists rebrand, and non-performers whose work play a major role in a song’s success don’t even come into play here — or people. What “top artists” lists almost always do is mostly ranking credited performers with some tidying-up for name changes, which tends to satisfy most of us. If we combine Destiny’s Child and Beyonce, why not split The Beatles’ points four ways? Why not dole out points to artists who wrote prolifically for other performers? Not saying anyone’s right or wrong; just asking the philosophical questions lol It all comes down to context. Though why would we split the Beatles points? We know Paul and John have written the most number one songs. I forget how many number ones Paul had after the Beatles, either solo or with other groups, but they’re all songs Paul is on. I understand why the record books list them the way they do and that’s fine, but for conversational purposes, it isn’t wrong to include songs that have a different artist label. Edit: I’m assuming this conversation is about some sort of all-time ranking chart. In that sense, yeah, splitting the artists might make sense as long as it’s consistent. But in an overall achievements sense, there’s no reason why someone wouldn’t cite all their achievements, whether solo or as part of a group. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 29, 2020 16:43:15 GMT -5
Why wouldn’t it make sense to some degree? She was present in the group. Their accomplishment count as part of her accomplishments. Her band's achievements =/= her solo career achievements. Beyoncé is Beyoncé, DC is DC, let's not mix things up. If I achieve something as part of a group project, I’m going to list that on my LinkedIn profile next to my individual achievements. |
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Post by Rose "Payola" Nylund on Oct 29, 2020 16:44:13 GMT -5
That’s what I meant. She was there. Why shouldn’t those years count toward her achievements? It's simple. It's just about who gets credited in a song. "Sicko mode" won't count towards Drake, just as "Diamonds" doesn't count for Janet Jackson. "Bootylicious" was a number one single for Destiny's Child, not Destiny's Child featuring Beyoncé. Which is ridiculous since Drake was physically present for the song. I don’t think any of us need a record labels’ permission to publicly state Drake was on that song. |
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jodakyellow
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Post by jodakyellow on Oct 29, 2020 16:50:41 GMT -5
I think what we can all agree on here is that when you start thinking about it, artist-based rankings aren’t nearly as clean-cut as we’d like to believe
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