Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 2, 2023 10:42:48 GMT -5
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Post by KeepDeanWeird on Aug 2, 2023 10:50:37 GMT -5
This is so disheartening. Her program won 3 Emmys. It'll be telling if Amazon delays or cancels production on S2.
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vithor
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Post by vithor on Aug 2, 2023 14:33:00 GMT -5
As a fat person myself, it was absolutely magical to see another fat person thriving and building a career despite of all the fatphobia in the industry for years. This is so heartbreaking to find out. I hope those dancers get the compensation they're asking for and some peace.
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HamedM1 💔
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Post by HamedM1 💔 on Aug 2, 2023 14:44:27 GMT -5
Really hoping the allegations are untrue but at the moment it does not look good for her, it is a damn shame because she was such a trailblazer in the industry for repsentation and being a voice for things that are often looked down upon. Her People's Choice Awards speech from last year was one of my impactful and powerful uses of a celebrity platform I've ever seen.
I am waiting to see how she will respond and what is her take on all of this but this truly is some very disheartening news.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Aug 2, 2023 14:58:51 GMT -5
The slew of allegations coming out after one ice break is pretty telling—both in their likelihood and, ironically, how much goodwill she had built up that people were so reluctant to go public.
Yikes. What a bummer.
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Aug 2, 2023 15:02:11 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 2, 2023 16:23:02 GMT -5
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on Aug 2, 2023 16:30:08 GMT -5
Never liked her!
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 2, 2023 16:36:00 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 2, 2023 18:31:48 GMT -5
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 2, 2023 19:14:53 GMT -5
It is definitely unfortunate. I will say after reading though, most of the allegations and incidents seem rather overdramatized for the sake of having a lawsuit.
I do not think there is anything illegal or even immoral about firing a dancer after they admit to currently having an eating disorder. That is an extreme physical health condition and your job requires extensive physical activity everyday. Actually I would consider it is dangerous if she *did not* fire her after she disclosed that. If the dancer passed out at rehearsals the next day and was in the emergency room battling for her life then it would look even worse that her team had her work after she already disclosed the eating disorder.
Also being fired for recording a meeting with a celebrity… I mean duh. Regardless of the condition you have that made you think it was justified, if you recorded them talking about confidential things without getting permission it is obvious you would be fired. You think a record label employee would not immediately be fired and blacklisted if they found out the employee was secretly recording meetings on Taylor Swift, Beyoncé, etc career discussions?
Even the sexual harassment stories have a lot of grey area. If she did not tell you she was taking you to a place with nudity, you are absolutely free to walk out the building once you realize and become uncomfortable. If she refused to let them leave that would be different. The people who work at the event there doing whatever particular sexual acts and inviting audience members to participate is not something Lizzo herself has control over as she was also a guest.
I would like to think she wouldn not purposely force someone to just be uncomfortable in a sexual setting and it was moreso her lacking awareness of others enjoyment in that moment. It seems like her encouraging people to go on stage a few times is akin to being at a karaoke bar or some other setting where a friend keeps encouraging you to participate. A bit inconsiderate if they asked you multiple times after the first rejection? Yeah. Purposely trying to make you feel uncomfortable and cause harm though?
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Leigh
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Post by Leigh on Aug 2, 2023 19:35:21 GMT -5
But that's such a simplified way to look at these situations. As an employer, it is Lizzo's responsibility to create safe work conditions. If the allegations are true and these employees felt like their jobs would be on the line and their income lost if they did not participate, that's a very different thing than what you are describing.
It's not just about the employees being free to walk out, it's about what the consequences of doing so would be (or at least creating a work environment where employees are fearful enough of potential consequences to stay and do things they do not want to)
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 2, 2023 19:41:36 GMT -5
But that's such a simplified way to look at these situations. As an employer, it is Lizzo's responsibility to create safe work conditions. If the allegations are true and these employees felt like their jobs would be on the line and their income lost if they did not participate, that's a very different thing than what you are describing. It's not just about the employees being free to walk out, it's about what the consequences of doing so would be (or at least creating a work environment where employees are fearful enough to stay and do things they do not want to) I get that, however Lizzo as a well known celebrity can generally much of the time not know if anyone around her is doing something because they truly want to or they feel pressured/motivated to maintain whatever relationship they have with her. It’s a hard thing for a celebrity to know. So while she definitely should consider it all times, it is unreasonable in my opinion to align her action with intentioned sexual harassment if she’s at a nude bar and encourages the entourage who came with her to go on stage and participate. That is very grey area to me, and not something definitely weird/intentional like if Lizzo tried to pressure hookups and have sexual relationships with her staff which would ofcourse be a major no no and understandably seen as abusing power. From my understanding, actually ^so many^ of the pop girls have went to clubs, bars, etc with their dancers. That’s pretty commonplace. The situation doesn’t seem as if it’s something that’s odd and not normal in any aspect. If Mariah went to the club with a dancer and encouraged them to accept a dance from someone there, do you think she intentioned to create a sexual harassment situation? Or she was encouraging them to have fun and was rather misintentioned and unaware of comfort levels?
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Aug 2, 2023 19:42:34 GMT -5
The suspicious part to me is this all coming out literally 4 days after the Special Tour and festival shows finished.
I think the claims should be investigated and verified, but she sold out or nearly sold out a lot of the tour and her company has a huge amount in the bank, and now some lawsuits are coming out?
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Post by suburbandreams on Aug 2, 2023 20:06:08 GMT -5
The suspicious part to me is this all coming out literally 4 days after the Special Tour and festival shows finished. I think the claims should be investigated and verified, but she sold out or nearly sold out a lot of the tour and her company has a huge amount in the bank, and now some lawsuits are coming out? The dancers suing were part of Lizzo's most recent tour before 2 fired and one quit in Spring 2023. I wouldn't be surprised if they signed an NDA that expired once the tour ended. It's better for Lizzo that they waited until the tour was over. Lizzo had money at the time they were fired so I don't think there is anything suspicious about the timing. For the accusations, it's clear that there was an unprofessional work environment. Multiple former employees of Lizzo have spoken out of social media supporting this proposition. However, it's a different question whether there is enough evidence to judge whether they are owed money based on Lizzo and the tour's treatment of them. This will likely get settled and never go to trial. Addressing only the sexual harassment complaints, its not uncommon for borders to get crossed between artists and dancers on tour. In Madonna's tour documentary, Truth or Dare, she also acted unprofessionally and seemingly bullied her dancers. Artists will switch between acting like a friend and a boss which can make dancers feel vulnerable. Going out to a strip club with a friend is a very different proposition from going with your boss. However, it's common on tour, for artists to party with their dancers and crew which can create toxic and dangerous situations. Lizzo yelling at a friend to eat the banana is one thing but its another thing to order an employee to do so. It seems like Lizzo didn't recognize that she was their boss and it's not possible for her take off that hat and just be their friend even if she wanted too.
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cjay
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Post by cjay on Aug 2, 2023 21:09:23 GMT -5
well the lyrics in the first verse of Rumors have come to life! Oh Lizzo.
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Glove Slap
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Post by Glove Slap on Aug 2, 2023 21:29:51 GMT -5
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 3, 2023 0:57:43 GMT -5
Blaming your team didn't work for Ellen Degeneres and it won't work for Lizzo.
The lawsuit itself is doomed because there was nothing technically illegal from what I can tell, but the dancers know that. This was a move to destroy her career and so far I'd say it's working.
I'm perplexed at how Lizzo herself has kept quiet because all it does is make her look worse. Maybe her team reviewed the facts and decided it's best for her to stfu.
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Post by suburbandreams on Aug 3, 2023 1:12:50 GMT -5
Blaming your team didn't work for Ellen Degeneres and it won't work for Lizzo. The lawsuit itself is doomed because there was nothing technically illegal from what I can tell, but the dancers know that. This was a move to destroy her career and so far I'd say it's working. I'm perplexed at how Lizzo herself has kept quiet because all it does is make her look worse. Maybe her team reviewed the facts and decided it's best for her to stfu. Eh, the stuff alleged isn't criminial but would violate American employment protections which would entitle the dancers to damages. The alleged incident at the Dutch strip club would likely cut as sexual harassment in the workplace under American employment law. Firing someone for having an eating disorder would also violate workplace protection for people with disabilities. Those violations could lead to pretty hefty payouts in civil court. Now, I don't think there is enough evidence to guarantee that the civil court would rule for the dancers. However, there's enough that the case won't be dismissed. As a result, the dancers will be able to subpoena Lizzo and her tour which could expose more stuff that's damaging to Lizzo's public image. So I believe the primary objective of the lawsuit is to pressure Lizzo into settling with the dancers before her image gets even more damaged.
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Aug 3, 2023 1:26:09 GMT -5
Lawsuit allegations aside (devil's advocate) the fact that so many are coming forward without being involved in a lawsuit is very telling... like VERY...
PLUS the fact that not only is she silent (which, with each passing HOUR is another nail) I have yet to see anyone defend her! Like that should say a LOT...
Also, Ms Christian bugged me so fking much with her beliefs and I wasn't around her... having that cult pushed on me whilst hearing about how you want 10 dicks in your face? (christians really are kinky, it's not the LGBTQ+ community "cOmIng FoR YoUr KidS") Bitch, I would've fking ran...
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Aug 3, 2023 3:46:20 GMT -5
The devil takes all forms, y'all. Where are all the Eat Pray Love yasss queen Lizzbians, though? I wish I could say I feel sorry for people who defended a gaslighter/perpetual victim so fervently and aggressively, but...alas. Shoutout to the girl who stood literally nose-to-nose with me during the pandemic, seething because I called Lizzo wack, before demanding that the host of the backyard gathering play Lizzo just to irritate me. I hope she's OK. (christians really are kinky, it's not the LGBTQ+ community "cOmIng FoR YoUr KidS") I know it's difficult, but can you try to refrain from generalizing an entire religion based on your personal experiences/trauma? It's wholly unnecessary. Much appreciated.
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Kelly's 10th Fan
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Post by Kelly's 10th Fan on Aug 3, 2023 4:12:03 GMT -5
I don't see Lizzo bouncing back from this with or without a statement, but I disagree with the idea that the lack of a statement is in itself incriminating. Even Kelly took a day to respond when word of her talk show being a toxic environment came out, and that was with everyone involved making a point to say 'Kelly herself is the nicest, we really don't think she's aware of what is going on.' For someone like Lizzo, taking a day to work on an official statement is definitely necessary. The vast majority of people would fumble badly if they tried to rush out a response right away.
Lizzo and her team have to read through the complaint, do their own internal investigation, and decide if they want to refute part or all of the allegations before they even get to discussing how she's going to say whatever she does decide to say. Good PR is almost always going to take a full day (and would gladly take two if they thought they could still get away with that, but it's not 1998 anymore). There are exceptions, but Lizzo's situation isn't one of them.
This is kind of me splitting hairs though bc like I said, I don't see Lizzo overcoming this. Too many people who used to work with her came out immediately afterward to corroborate the suit's allegations and too many people went and pulled receipts from song lyrics and interviews for her to pull a plausible deniability card. And the dancers' legal team(s?) definitely knew what they were doing by making sure this hit on a Wednesday. Assuming Lizzo does respond some time tomorrow, that guarantees the story carries over to the Friday news cycle, and anything that's news on Friday is news for the weekend...five straight days that 'Lizzo's whole brand is a lie' is going to be out there as main news.
The most disappointing thing for me personally is watching the avalanche of tea come in after the suit is filed, and knowing that people are only spilling now because it's 'safe' to do so. Beyond Lizzo herself, I'm so over the entertainment industry repeatedly making it clear that they'll cover up any shit stain as long as it's making the right people some money. And frankly most of the public co-signs this in so many different ways. Morals aren't profitable so no one uses them.
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bonicap
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Post by bonicap on Aug 3, 2023 4:26:34 GMT -5
I might agree with some takes here on how there are many "grey areas" in these stories and some of them are overdramatized, but her silence is terrible. I guess she'll write something in a few hours or days in the lines of "I never intended to harm anyone or make anybody feel uncomfortable but if this was the case I'm sorry and I will learn..." but each hour with more voices rising against her and no answer is making it more difficult.
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think pink.
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Post by think pink. on Aug 3, 2023 6:23:35 GMT -5
Statement
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• Господин Умљеновић •
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Post by • Господин Умљеновић • on Aug 3, 2023 6:54:01 GMT -5
A lot of words to say nothing in the end.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Aug 3, 2023 7:25:28 GMT -5
The accusations are disturbing. But what's equally disturbing is the lawsuit dropped and everyone immediately took it at face value. How about we see how the case plays out before casting a verdict? Like damn...
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Aug 3, 2023 7:45:25 GMT -5
It is definitely unfortunate. I will say after reading though, most of the allegations and incidents seem rather overdramatized for the sake of having a lawsuit. I do not think there is anything illegal or even immoral about firing a dancer after they admit to currently having an eating disorder. That is an extreme physical health condition and your job requires extensive physical activity everyday. Actually I would consider it is dangerous if she *did not* fire her after she disclosed that. If the dancer passed out at rehearsals the next day and was in the emergency room battling for her life then it would look even worse that her team had her work after she already disclosed the eating disorder. What about the option of saying, "Hey take a break and get better, and your job will be here when you are ready" or something similar? You cannot straight up fire someone for having a medical condition. You should surely be given a heads up on that type of thing, no? I didn't see much denial in that statement from Lizzo.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Aug 3, 2023 7:48:50 GMT -5
The accusations are disturbing. But what's equally disturbing is the lawsuit dropped and everyone immediately took it at face value. How about we see how the case plays out before casting a verdict? Like damn... I'm not surprised. That's been done to everyone for whom accusations have come forward basically since Harvey Weinstein was arrested. I'm not saying Lizzo is as bad as him, just that after a known serial sexual assaulter was taken down, the internet has been in a state of cancel culture guilty-until-proven-innocent frenzy anytime accusations come forward about any famous or famous-adjacent person.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 3, 2023 8:00:31 GMT -5
Blaming your team didn't work for Ellen Degeneres and it won't work for Lizzo. The lawsuit itself is doomed because there was nothing technically illegal from what I can tell, but the dancers know that. This was a move to destroy her career and so far I'd say it's working. I'm perplexed at how Lizzo herself has kept quiet because all it does is make her look worse. Maybe her team reviewed the facts and decided it's best for her to stfu. Eh, the stuff alleged isn't criminial but would violate American employment protections which would entitle the dancers to damages. The alleged incident at the Dutch strip club would likely cut as sexual harassment in the workplace under American employment law. Firing someone for having an eating disorder would also violate workplace protection for people with disabilities. Those violations could lead to pretty hefty payouts in civil court. Now, I don't think there is enough evidence to guarantee that the civil court would rule for the dancers. However, there's enough that the case won't be dismissed. As a result, the dancers will be able to subpoena Lizzo and her tour which could expose more stuff that's damaging to Lizzo's public image. So I believe the primary objective of the lawsuit is to pressure Lizzo into settling with the dancers before her image gets even more damaged. I don’t even think firing someone who’s a dancer for an eating disorder would even violate worker disability rights. Disability rights give protection as long as the disability does not directly strongly impact their ability to do the work. However if you’re a dancer with a broken leg for example, obviously you just cannot do the work required at that point. An eating disorder is pretty similar, it isn’t ADHD or something. If she hasn’t ate all day and collapses on stage then it’s a huge liability for the team and it risks the dancer’s own life at this point. If your life is being risked by doing the job requirements with your disability then I’m not sure what rights you have to continue working at that point. It is definitely unfortunate. I will say after reading though, most of the allegations and incidents seem rather overdramatized for the sake of having a lawsuit. I do not think there is anything illegal or even immoral about firing a dancer after they admit to currently having an eating disorder. That is an extreme physical health condition and your job requires extensive physical activity everyday. Actually I would consider it is dangerous if she *did not* fire her after she disclosed that. If the dancer passed out at rehearsals the next day and was in the emergency room battling for her life then it would look even worse that her team had her work after she already disclosed the eating disorder. What about the option of saying, "Hey take a break and get better, and your job will be here when you are ready" or something similar? You cannot straight up fire someone for having a medical condition. You should surely be given a heads up on that type of thing, no? I didn't see much denial in that statement from Lizzo. I’m pretty sure dancers are more along the lines of contract/temp workers. It’s not a 9-5 year round job that’ll always be around. A tour might only be a few months and if you have an extreme illness that will probably require long term disability leave/care then it makes zero sense to even lead them on they’ll still have a job “whenever they are ready to come back”.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 3, 2023 8:04:58 GMT -5
There hasn't exactly been any associates or employees coming out to speak in FAVOR of Lizzo's character or disputing any of the claims.
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