iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 3, 2023 8:26:30 GMT -5
There hasn't exactly been any associates or employees coming out to speak in FAVOR of Lizzo's character or disputing any of the claims. Well I think it’s the fact the sexual harassment allegations was what generated the main headlines. Once someone is accused of sexual harassment/assault nobody is gonna just come to their defense and look like they’re dismissing any possible victims of sexual misconduct. Nobody wants to insert themselves into that fire. I think the most I’m getting from this is that she has a rather unprofessional attitude and lacks self awareness at times, which is probably the case with a lot of big names.
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Post by Choco on Aug 3, 2023 8:31:37 GMT -5
That statement was weak as fuck. The era of the notes app apology is over.
But at least she finally said something.
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 3, 2023 8:43:18 GMT -5
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Post by Choco on Aug 3, 2023 10:12:15 GMT -5
The lawyer choice speaks volumes too.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Aug 3, 2023 12:33:48 GMT -5
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85la
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Post by 85la on Aug 3, 2023 12:42:29 GMT -5
This doesn't prove anything. It's very likely she could've been pressured into lying and didn't feel comfortable coming forward with the truth at that time.
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Aug 3, 2023 18:56:42 GMT -5
Screaming at the "context added" on the lawyer tweet. THEY knew exactly what they were doing with that tweet🤭
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 3, 2023 22:21:09 GMT -5
So this has been truly one of the most disappointing celebrity revelations for me... I always assume most if not all celebrities are insufferable to some extent, because that's just the way they are. But Lizzo has been such a light in the industry, or so it seemed. She has accomplished so much when the odds were stacked up against her. She has spoken up about issues that concern most of us on this forum deeply. She has had impact on the way the entertainment industry works that will live on for a long time. I'm heartbroken to see all of this unfold. When it was just the lawsuit, I was ready to wait for her response before jumping to any conclusions. Then other former employees started chiming in, then that director that quit the job of filming her tour. It's all a bit disturbing. Her notes app "statement" is so very clearly written by a fluent legalese expert. She is obviously not taking responsibility or apologizing — they must think she'll win in court or settle the suit privately. I understand why it's the way it is, but it is severely lacking as a first-ever statement on the allegations. And that lawyer choice... yikes. If she were a racist white man, she'd wake up to a No. 1 hit. But I don't think she can recover from this when her actions have shown to go completely against what she claims to stand for.
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Post by Glove Slap on Aug 3, 2023 22:50:09 GMT -5
The accusations are disturbing. But what's equally disturbing is the lawsuit dropped and everyone immediately took it at face value. How about we see how the case plays out before casting a verdict? Like damn... Yeah people were waiting. Some aspects specifically around her conduct do sometimes come across as exaggerated even with the more substantive parts, but still people were WAITING.
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Aug 4, 2023 0:11:30 GMT -5
What angers me most is the 50 steps forward she brought: The black community The health at all size community The LGBTQ+ community The fat but fit community and others
have now all lost 100 steps and it gives the previous haters everything they need to weaponize their words and actions against these very communities...
It does crack open the discussion of been trying to go DEEP on with peeps about what art vs artist means...
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Post by Active Aggressive on Aug 4, 2023 4:37:46 GMT -5
LOL @ 50 steps forward for the Black community. As a member of that community, she catered mostly to suburban White women. Please do not speak for us and what Lizzo did for us.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 4, 2023 5:05:07 GMT -5
It’s beyond appalling/disturbing an account as big as PopCrave chose to be extremely messy and align her with abusers and rapists because she chose a lawyer that is objectively the most popular celebrity lawyer in general and has also worked with a 100 celebrities that have not committed any heinous crimes.
Also even more absurd people think she’s simply “guilty” for having a lawyer that has worked with guilty people before?… As if ANY lawyer with years of experience hasn’t likely worked with a share of guilty people?
Something has to be said about how witch hunts start once stuff like this comes out and the way people *want* to find ways for someone to be guilty no matter how ridiculous.
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Post by Active Aggressive on Aug 4, 2023 10:44:54 GMT -5
Sure, all lawyers have had to represent guilty people, but Marty Singer is a KNOWN Hollywood fixer. That full list doesn't really change the narrative, but sure. While Lizzo is far from my favorite person and I tend to believe the victims in the majority of scenarios (it's especially telling that a director came out against her, in my opinion), I actually do hope she is innocent and if so, she is vindicated, mostly because no one deserves to have false allegations on their head but also for the sake of her fans (well, except that one girl who got in my face, LOL. She can suck it.)
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Aug 4, 2023 13:51:34 GMT -5
Sure, all lawyers have had to represent guilty people, but Marty Singer is a KNOWN Hollywood fixer. That full list doesn't really change the narrative, but sure. While Lizzo is far from my favorite person and I tend to believe the victims in the majority of scenarios (it's especially telling that a director came out against her, in my opinion), I actually do hope she is innocent and if so, she is vindicated, mostly because no one deserves to have false allegations on their head but also for the sake of her fans (well, except that one girl who got in my face, LOL. She can suck it.) I think you're ignoring the overall point that it is absolutely unacceptable in general that a news outlet with millions of followers and large public influence should be able to bring up a lawyer's other clients to change a perception. Nor should a huge portion of the public go around with the mindset that someone must be guilty because their lawyer has had guilty clients before (200K+ likes on that tweet calling her guilty....). It is a very dangerous precedent to set period. Even if Lizzo is 100% guilty, that type of propaganda shouldn't be acceptable in general and it is absolutely scary to see it clearly is so effective as so much of the public took it and ran with it. His past clients have nothing to do with if Lizzo did something she is accused of. 0 relation. That PopCrave account honestly deserves to be sued into oblivion lol. There is no purpose of that tweet other than defamation to insert her name next to Bill Cosby, Chris Brown, and Brett Ratner in regards to her court case.
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Aug 4, 2023 22:00:30 GMT -5
This is all so sad and disappointing. The immediate witch hunt for Lizzo is just horrible to see. Even if she is proven innocent, the damage to her career has been done.
And looking at some of the allegations, some of it likely won't hold up in court and involves other parties (not just Lizzo).
I'll wait to see the outcome of the case before forming a solid opinion on the whole thing.
Lizzo was on such a career high with her 2nd album and amazingly successful TV show. As someone who really liked everything she stood for it's gutting. I really hope the allegations turn out not to be true.
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Aug 5, 2023 0:26:33 GMT -5
Part of why she's getting so much coming at her from even the GP (aside from fat hate, racism, etc etc etc...) is because, and she/her team have said this previously, a majority(!) of her popularity came from not fans per se, but fans of just HER, not her music...
So you have stans who are playing Coconut Oil and then you have peeps who were saying "Never heard a song but damn I love seeing her win" etc...
That leads to a LOT of backlash ONTOP OF IT BEING ABOUT THE VERY THING YOU PREACH ABOUT!
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Post by HamedM1 💔 on Aug 5, 2023 8:23:33 GMT -5
Just saw part of the TMZ interview and the moment the dancers basically said that they were not forced to go into social events with Lizzo and just felt the need to go, is definitely a strike against their case imo. Doesn't dismiss any of the allegations of course but it definitely is more food for thought now.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 5, 2023 10:35:19 GMT -5
TMZ was a terrible choice for them. A lot of it came off weak and dumb.
I don't doubt Lizzo can win this in court. Public opinion on the other hand...
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MyLastView
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Post by MyLastView on Aug 5, 2023 13:46:08 GMT -5
Whoever told them to do that TMZ interview is an idiot. Now their case is starting to look like big ol BS.
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Anticonformity
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Post by Anticonformity on Aug 6, 2023 1:21:01 GMT -5
I want to say before I go on that I was/am a Lizzo stan... Separating the art from the artist going forward at this time and is an ongoing journey...
The biggest legal things in their case are the religious harassment claims (cause damn she was annoying ME before all this and I wasn't there lol), assault (the cracking knuckles one), and the false imprisonment (!)...
A lot of the other stuff can either be taken wrong (the pressure to go) or legal but not moral (the sex stuff) and with regards to the sexual nature of the claims (music lol gurl what) I could see some of this if it was say, Taylor's tour and where you would be a bit more shocked to have sexual stuff pop off on her tour, but I mean it's Lizzo, she's always been OPENLY (too open?) sex positive...
I believe their claims but that doesn't mean I believe every claim... the most damning thing out of all this is not the responses, it's the deafening silence in defense of Lizzo...
(Also, watch out for what you yourself read, I've seen time and time again where things are reported incorrectly: Foe example: If there is a room full of black peeps and someone tells you in that room a racial slur was used, what word would you think of?
Because let me tell you it would have not been the "Bye Bitch!" Lizzo used, lol I mean the media slanted it purposefully a certain way, when you actually read the facts I was like uh Lizzo saying "Bye Bitch!" is the most on brand thing in this lawsuit, let's not make something out of nothing...
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 6, 2023 8:41:12 GMT -5
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Az Paynter
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Post by Az Paynter on Aug 6, 2023 9:50:49 GMT -5
Okay Grimes, but even if the claims directly against Lizzo herself are bunk, Quigley sounds like a total head case who has absolutely no business being in her position of power - and that is on Lizzo for keeping Quigley around because that is just as much a contributing factor to the 'toxic workplace environment' allegations. 'Cause even if Lizzo herself really is as her frontward-facing persona, keeping Quigley in her employ is enabling toxicity among her circle.
IDK how long Quigley's been working for Lizzo but I also don't know how Lizzo could be completely oblivious to it. She has to have known, and she didn't cut Quigley loose. That makes her complicit.
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Choco
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Post by Choco on Aug 6, 2023 16:03:53 GMT -5
I like a handful of Lizzo songs a lot but I do laugh at the "separating art from the artist" argument because her stuff isn't that good to be struggling lol.
It's what she represented as a sex positive black overweight lady killing it in the industry and spreading love that was trascendental.
Also I promise you nobody cares if you keep streaming "About Damn Time". The world is too fucked up already for you to keep yourself from streaming a song you like when it makes very little difference to anyone involved in the lawsuit.
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Post by Koochie on Aug 7, 2023 20:47:34 GMT -5
Yeah I’m not dropping “Tempo” from my forever playlist, sorry lol Sure, all lawyers have had to represent guilty people, but Marty Singer is a KNOWN Hollywood fixer. That full list doesn't really change the narrative, but sure. While Lizzo is far from my favorite person and I tend to believe the victims in the majority of scenarios (it's especially telling that a director came out against her, in my opinion), I actually do hope she is innocent and if so, she is vindicated, mostly because no one deserves to have false allegations on their head but also for the sake of her fans (well, except that one girl who got in my face, LOL. She can suck it.) I think you're ignoring the overall point that it is absolutely unacceptable in general that a news outlet with millions of followers and large public influence should be able to bring up a lawyer's other clients to change a perception. Nor should a huge portion of the public go around with the mindset that someone must be guilty because their lawyer has had guilty clients before (200K+ likes on that tweet calling her guilty....). It is a very dangerous precedent to set period. Who this lawyer has represented is public information and she’s a public figure. I’m not sure how it’s unacceptable at all. Marty Singer’s reputation is established. The LA Times and Vanity Fair wrote pieces on him in 2017 addressing this same thing: He consistently accepts cases of a certain nature. This isn’t new. He went to TMZ about this case earlier, so the public already knew he was representing her. Personally, I don’t see how she’s a victim here in any capacity. Innocent until proven guilty, but she’s the one who picked him.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 7, 2023 21:21:51 GMT -5
I think you're ignoring the overall point that it is absolutely unacceptable in general that a news outlet with millions of followers and large public influence should be able to bring up a lawyer's other clients to change a perception. Nor should a huge portion of the public go around with the mindset that someone must be guilty because their lawyer has had guilty clients before (200K+ likes on that tweet calling her guilty....). It is a very dangerous precedent to set period. Who this lawyer has represented is public information and she’s a public figure. I’m not sure how it’s unacceptable at all. Marty Singer’s reputation is established. The LA Times and Vanity Fair wrote pieces on him in 2017 addressing this same thing: He consistently accepts cases of a certain nature. This isn’t new. He went to TMZ about this case earlier, so the public already knew he was representing her. Personally, I don’t see how she’s a victim here in any capacity. Innocent until proven guilty, but she’s the one who picked him. they're referring to PopCrave hand picking his most offensive clients to create a narrative where... there is none. he's a lawyer, he's represented celebrities. his deal is getting paid to resolve legal issues, like any other lawyer. in the entertainment industry, that does include some shady business. his clientele also includes Whitney Houston, Sofia Vergara, Alicia Keys, Celine Dion, Serena Williams... PopCrave picking the worst, ugliest men he represented just to get a viral tweet is inarguably in poor taste, especially with how vague and unserious some of these allegations against Lizzo are. she is not facing ANY criminal charges, unlike the men PopCrave chose to include in that tweet. in a way Lizzo is getting the Amber Heard treatment from clout chasers and random social media "experts" before there's even a trial in sight. even in the scenario where Lizzo turns out to be an unbearable employer as alleged, she's only being equated to abusers, rapists and violent men for... her identity. the same public and media that cheered on Johnny Depp for months on end are so eager to jump on Lizzo's case and watch her disappear. there's something really disturbing about it.
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Post by Koochie on Aug 7, 2023 21:45:35 GMT -5
Who this lawyer has represented is public information and she’s a public figure. I’m not sure how it’s unacceptable at all. Marty Singer’s reputation is established. The LA Times and Vanity Fair wrote pieces on him in 2017 addressing this same thing: He consistently accepts cases of a certain nature. This isn’t new. He went to TMZ about this case earlier, so the public already knew he was representing her. Personally, I don’t see how she’s a victim here in any capacity. Innocent until proven guilty, but she’s the one who picked him. they're referring to PopCrave hand picking his most offensive clients to create a narrative where... there is none. he's a lawyer, he's represented celebrities. his deal is getting paid to resolve legal issues, like any other lawyer. in the entertainment industry, that does include some shady business. his clientele also includes Whitney Houston, Sofia Vergara, Alicia Keys, Celine Dion, Serena Williams... PopCrave picking the worst, ugliest men he represented just to get a viral tweet is inarguably in poor taste, especially with how vague and unserious some of these allegations against Lizzo are. she is not facing ANY criminal charges, unlike the men PopCrave chose to include in that tweet. in a way Lizzo is getting the Amber Heard treatment from clout chasers and random social media "experts" before there's even a trial in sight. even in the scenario where Lizzo turns out to be an unbearable employer as alleged, she's only being equated to abusers, rapists and violent men for... her identity. the same public and media that cheered on Johnny Depp for months on end are so eager to jump on Lizzo's case and watch her disappear. there's something really disturbing about it. I'm not trying to say that the tweet was made in good faith, rather I don't follow the implication that it's especially egregious. They're not creating that narrative, although I could see an argument for them reinforcing it. Regardless, this isn't going to change anyone's minds. It just makes her look worse to people who were already burning her at the stake. Really, my point was that the media has every right to report on it, regardless of framing. Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted the post as saying they can't talk about his past clients at all instead of the more nuanced interpretation you've presented here. It was also kind of an indictment of her PR team for not recognizing how this could look for her, but that's less important lol.
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kimberly
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Post by kimberly on Aug 7, 2023 22:08:34 GMT -5
they're referring to PopCrave hand picking his most offensive clients to create a narrative where... there is none. he's a lawyer, he's represented celebrities. his deal is getting paid to resolve legal issues, like any other lawyer. in the entertainment industry, that does include some shady business. his clientele also includes Whitney Houston, Sofia Vergara, Alicia Keys, Celine Dion, Serena Williams... PopCrave picking the worst, ugliest men he represented just to get a viral tweet is inarguably in poor taste, especially with how vague and unserious some of these allegations against Lizzo are. she is not facing ANY criminal charges, unlike the men PopCrave chose to include in that tweet. in a way Lizzo is getting the Amber Heard treatment from clout chasers and random social media "experts" before there's even a trial in sight. even in the scenario where Lizzo turns out to be an unbearable employer as alleged, she's only being equated to abusers, rapists and violent men for... her identity. the same public and media that cheered on Johnny Depp for months on end are so eager to jump on Lizzo's case and watch her disappear. there's something really disturbing about it. I'm not trying to say that the tweet was made in good faith, rather I don't follow the implication that it's especially egregious. They're not creating that narrative, although I could see an argument for them reinforcing it. Regardless, this isn't going to change anyone's minds. It just makes her look worse to people who were already burning her at the stake. Really, my point was that the media has every right to report on it, regardless of framing. Maybe I misunderstood, but I interpreted the post as saying they can't talk about his past clients at all instead of the more nuanced interpretation you've presented here. It was also kind of an indictment of her PR team for not recognizing how this could look for her, but that's less important lol. yeah, I don't think we're really saying conflicting things. that PopCrave tweet obviously isn't solely responsible for the dogpiling, but it's a symptom of it. it's reinforcing it. I just inferred the nuance from iHype. 's earlier posts in the thread. I don't think the point was that it's "unacceptable to bring up a lawyer's past clients at all" but to do so with a messy agenda, singling out the criminally guilty clients, to present her as another criminal because of it... that's what's questionable. they were also talking about a tweet that quoted PopCrave's saying "she's guilty" — currently has 280k likes and 14 million views on twitter. people with no understanding of the law should not be covering legal matters and announcing or implying their verdicts, most likely without having read a single word of the lawsuit that's been filed. this includes PopCrave, an anonymous account with a massive reach whose job is to post new songs and celebrity gossip. they're not journalists; they most certainly are not courtroom/legal reporters. acting as if they are is dangerous. and claiming she's guilty because her lawyer has had guilty clients in the past is an absurd take. I'll admit, I wasn't well-informed enough about the situation when I wrote my first post about this either. I've read and listened to more objective perspectives and it's clear to me that this lawsuit is not at all a black or white scenario (unlike the abusers and rapists she's being compared to). Which is why they went with a civil lawsuit and not a criminal one based on discrimination, mistreatment, or harassment. the accusations would not hold water in a criminal case.
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Post by Choco on Aug 8, 2023 11:05:43 GMT -5
Yeah I will also admit that after the first few days, everything revealed since, including their terrible TMZ interview has led me to believe no side here is 100% correct.
We forget that PopCrave thrives on stan engagement and messy tweets like that. It's not actually a reputable outlet in spite of it's surge in relevance in the past few years. The tweet was made in good faith but we s hould know better than to 100% base our opinions on a Twitter account that got popular.
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Post by कामसूत्र on Aug 8, 2023 18:38:09 GMT -5
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Ryan
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Post by Ryan on Aug 9, 2023 10:39:05 GMT -5
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