Billboard Hot 100: 09/11/2021

[phieaglesfan712]

Sept 9, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5 Mayman said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:28:28 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Stop allowing Christmas songs to chart. We can’t change the calendar (Christmas will fall on a Saturday in 2027, 2032, 2038, 2049, etc.) But if the numbers are big this year, just wait until 2024, 2025, and 2026, when Christmas is on Wednesday, Thursday, and Friday.

The statements that you make continue to amaze me. What even is this logic?

At some point, you’ve got to think that the record labels will say enough is enough. After seeing the Christmas carnage of 2019 and 2020, I doubt they’ll want to risk Christmas songs charting at all places 1-50 in 2024-2026.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Sept 9, 2021 11:44:08 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5 Mayman said:

The statements that you make continue to amaze me. What even is this logic?

At some point, you’ve got to think that the record labels will say enough is enough. After seeing the Christmas carnage of 2019 and 2020, I doubt they’ll want to risk Christmas songs charting at all places 1-50 in 2024-2026.

No one releases music in December to begin with. There's a reason why it's usually a bad idea to release in December: Christmas is too much of a priority for people and labels know this. Yes there are occasional late year releases but for the most part, you're better off releasing earlier or after Christmas when you're gonna get better coverage and attention. And this isn't a new thing, this has been the standard for many years now, well before Christmas freezes and vacuums on the charts.

There's a reason the last weeks of December-first weeks of January are dumping grounds for bad movies or why most TV shows halt showing new episodes for Christmas unless they're holiday themed. The entertainment industry as a whole knows to respect Christmas 

[jenglisbe]

Sept 9, 2021 11:14:58 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Regarding Christmas songs charting, I can see this being the last year they are eligible to chart. The last time Christmas fell on a Saturday was 2010, the year before Christmas songs became eligible to chart. Christmas falling on a Saturday is the most disadvantageous to these songs, so if they continue to be successful despite this, I can see Billboard putting a stop to this after this holiday season.

It would be labels wanting to put a stop to it that would make a difference, not Billboard.

[Gary]

Sept 9, 2021 11:44:08 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:32:17 GMT -5 Mayman said:

The statements that you make continue to amaze me. What even is this logic?

At some point, you’ve got to think that the record labels will say enough is enough. After seeing the Christmas carnage of 2019 and 2020, I doubt they’ll want to risk Christmas songs charting at all places 1-50 in 2024-2026.

At some point the record labels will say - Christmas songs are popular during Christmas time and release even more Christmas music than ever. (Which they are already doing)

If Christmas songs take up the entire top 50 - so be it. That is what people listen to during Christmas.

[nathanalbright]

It's often best not to fight what tens of millions of people are doing and simply find a way to profit from it for oneself. This is one reason why Billboard has been so generous about letting songs come back from recurrency after the Christmas rush.

[phieaglesfan712]

Sept 9, 2021 11:57:35 GMT -5 nathanalbright said:

It's often best not to fight what tens of millions of people are doing and simply find a way to profit from it for oneself. This is one reason why Billboard has been so generous about letting songs come back from recurrency after the Christmas rush.

The problem with letting songs back from recurrency after the Christmas season is that Billboard has been very inconsistent about this. Take 2019, for example, when they allowed Sucker and IDC to re-enter and chart for several more weeks, while keeping Sunflower recurrent. I rather they not let any songs re-enter than letting some in and others out.

[rimetm]

Sept 9, 2021 12:38:20 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:57:35 GMT -5 nathanalbright said:

It's often best not to fight what tens of millions of people are doing and simply find a way to profit from it for oneself. This is one reason why Billboard has been so generous about letting songs come back from recurrency after the Christmas rush.

The problem with letting songs back from recurrency after the Christmas season is that Billboard has been very inconsistent about this. Take 2019, for example, when they allowed Sucker and IDC to re-enter and chart for several more weeks, while keeping Sunflower recurrent. I rather they not let any songs re-enter than letting some in and others out.

What are you talking about? Sunflower was 25/52 recurrent, and the tracking week it could’ve come back it was #90 on MediaBase and #24 on Rolling Stone. That wouldn’t have been sufficient to get to the necessary placement.

[nathanalbright]

We have to accept that there are harder standards for songs to come back from superrecurrency than from recurrency, and this is something we may see with regards to BL in the coming weeks as well as the album bombs for both Kanye and Drake fade.

[Gary]

I think Billboard follows their rules consistently for recurrency.

I think there is a misunderstanding by some on what the recurrency rules are.

[algo]

The recurrency rules are complicated, and the One Too Many situation makes it 1000x more confusing, but i think blinding lights will remain recurrent after all this is over.

[Groovy]

Recurrency rules shouldn't exist to begin with.

[85la]

Sept 9, 2021 11:48:36 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:44:08 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

At some point, you’ve got to think that the record labels will say enough is enough. After seeing the Christmas carnage of 2019 and 2020, I doubt they’ll want to risk Christmas songs charting at all places 1-50 in 2024-2026.

No one releases music in December to begin with. There's a reason why it's usually a bad idea to release in December: Christmas is too much of a priority for people and labels know this. Yes there are occasional late year releases but for the most part, you're better off releasing earlier or after Christmas when you're gonna get better coverage and attention. And this isn't a new thing, this has been the standard for many years now, well before Christmas freezes and vacuums on the charts.

There's a reason the last weeks of December-first weeks of January are dumping grounds for bad movies or why most TV shows halt showing new episodes for Christmas unless they're holiday themed. The entertainment industry as a whole knows to respect Christmas 

True for music and TV, but actually the opposite for movies (at least until around Christmas day; after that and into early January you're right). This is traditionally the time when some of the most acclaimed Oscar-hopefuls are released (in addition to some major blockbusters), as audiences tend to see more movies during the holidays, and studios want the films fresh in Oscar voters' minds and for the marketing to align leading up to the awards season. Possibly the fact that the Grammy cutoff and nominations coming out much earlier has something to do with it, maybe if the Grammy deadline was Dec 31 we might see a few more high-profile releases that time of year, but you're right in that the focus on Christmas would still heavily limit this.

[dremolus - solarpunk]

Sept 9, 2021 13:20:07 GMT -5 85la said:

Sept 9, 2021 11:48:36 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

No one releases music in December to begin with. There's a reason why it's usually a bad idea to release in December: Christmas is too much of a priority for people and labels know this. Yes there are occasional late year releases but for the most part, you're better off releasing earlier or after Christmas when you're gonna get better coverage and attention. And this isn't a new thing, this has been the standard for many years now, well before Christmas freezes and vacuums on the charts.

There's a reason the last weeks of December-first weeks of January are dumping grounds for bad movies or why most TV shows halt showing new episodes for Christmas unless they're holiday themed. The entertainment industry as a whole knows to respect Christmas 

True for music and TV, but actually the opposite for movies (at least until around Christmas day; after that and into early January you're right). This is traditionally the time when some of the most acclaimed Oscar-hopefuls are released (in addition to some major blockbusters), as audiences tend to see more movies during the holidays, and studios want the films fresh in Oscar voters' minds and for the marketing to align leading up to the awards season. Possibly the fact that the Grammy cutoff and nominations coming out much earlier has something to do with it, maybe if the Grammy deadline was Dec 31 we might see a few more high-profile releases that time of year, but you're right in that the focus on Christmas would still heavily limit this.

I am aware of award strategies for releasing in December but:

1. Oscar and award bait movies tend to be a niche audience anyways. Dont get me wrong, they make money but they're not amongst the top grossing movies even in their December weeks. Family movies are still a more successful venture. The only exception is for war movies since they're regularly a commercially viable genre. 

2. Some movies sent for award consideration might not be widely available until after Christmas. If they get shown in December, it's most likely of limited release - especially if their of the film festival variety. A movie like The Favorite was only widely released after awards nominations. 

3. More often than not it could still backfire, it's not a surefire recipe for success. Just look at lists of failed critic and award bait. Tons of critical flops all backing on award recognition and when that doesnt happen,  it creates a bigger bomb. 

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Sept 9, 2021 11:14:58 GMT -5 phieaglesfan712 said:

Regarding Christmas songs charting, I can see this being the last year they are eligible to chart. The last time Christmas fell on a Saturday was 2010, the year before Christmas songs became eligible to chart. Christmas falling on a Saturday is the most disadvantageous to these songs, so if they continue to be successful despite this, I can see Billboard putting a stop to this after this holiday season.

This literally doesn’t make sense

[renfield75]

Sept 9, 2021 13:32:13 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

Sept 9, 2021 13:20:07 GMT -5 85la said:

True for music and TV, but actually the opposite for movies (at least until around Christmas day; after that and into early January you're right). This is traditionally the time when some of the most acclaimed Oscar-hopefuls are released (in addition to some major blockbusters), as audiences tend to see more movies during the holidays, and studios want the films fresh in Oscar voters' minds and for the marketing to align leading up to the awards season. Possibly the fact that the Grammy cutoff and nominations coming out much earlier has something to do with it, maybe if the Grammy deadline was Dec 31 we might see a few more high-profile releases that time of year, but you're right in that the focus on Christmas would still heavily limit this.

I am aware of award strategies for releasing in December but:

1. Oscar and award bait movies tend to be a niche audience anyways. Dont get me wrong, they make money but they're not amongst the top grossing movies even in their December weeks. Family movies are still a more successful venture. They dont really gross much except for war movies which are traditionally. The only exception is for war movies since they're regularly a commercially viable genre. 

2. Some movies sent for award consideration might not be widely available until after Christmas. If they get shown in December, it's most likely of limited release - especially if their of the film festival variety. A movie like The Favorite was only widely released after awards nominations. 

3. More often than not it could still backfire, it's not a surefire recipe for success. Just look at lists of failed critic and award bait. Tons of critical flops all backing on award recognition and when that doesnt happen,  it creates a bigger bomb. 

It's not just awards films. Star Wars, big budget family films, and other huge tentpoles are often released around the holidays because families like to go to the movies then. Christmas Day is often one of the single biggest box office days of the year; 4 of the 10 highest grossing films of all time were released in December (including Titanic and Avatar). Avoiding Christmas for financial reasons applies to music and TV but not movies.

[phieaglesfan712]

Sept 9, 2021 14:29:28 GMT -5 renfield75 said:

Sept 9, 2021 13:32:13 GMT -5 dremolus - solarpunk said:

I am aware of award strategies for releasing in December but:

1. Oscar and award bait movies tend to be a niche audience anyways. Dont get me wrong, they make money but they're not amongst the top grossing movies even in their December weeks. Family movies are still a more successful venture. They dont really gross much except for war movies which are traditionally. The only exception is for war movies since they're regularly a commercially viable genre. 

2. Some movies sent for award consideration might not be widely available until after Christmas. If they get shown in December, it's most likely of limited release - especially if their of the film festival variety. A movie like The Favorite was only widely released after awards nominations. 

3. More often than not it could still backfire, it's not a surefire recipe for success. Just look at lists of failed critic and award bait. Tons of critical flops all backing on award recognition and when that doesnt happen,  it creates a bigger bomb. 

It's not just awards films. Star Wars, big budget family films, and other huge tentpoles are often released around the holidays because families like to go to the movies then. Christmas Day is often one of the single biggest box office days of the year; 4 of the 10 highest grossing films of all time were released in December (including Titanic and Avatar). Avoiding Christmas for financial reasons applies to music and TV but not movies.

The Star Wars movies released in December don’t have the same feel. I liked it better when they were released in May. After all, Star Wars day is in May, not December. May the 4th be with you sounds a lot better than December the 4th be with you, lol.