iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jan 24, 2022 10:12:48 GMT -5
Why did radio impressions get bigger as time went on...I'm a little pressed that Janet only peaked with 109M audience impressions but it was the fastest growing song on radio at the time... Janet peaked with 118 million. Which was huge, considering the record was only 141 million at that point. And she peaked at #3 on Rhythmic, #5 on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay, and #1 on Top 40. Destiny's Child reached #1 on all 3 formats with huge leads when they did 141 million. Every few months throughout the early 2000s radio audience in general got higher because station ratings were growing each year. "Independent Women" cracked 140 million in 2000, "U Got It Bad" cracked 150 million in 2002, "Hot In Herre" cracked 160 million in 2002, "In Da Club" cracked 170 million in 2003, then "We Belong Together" hit 200 million audience in 2005. After 2005, station ratings began to take a hit. Audience decreased across the board for stations, and also radio formats were beginning to change. Top 40 began playing less R&B/Hip-Hop in the late 2000s, and then HAC/AC completely changed as a format and started playing Pop hits which then allowed Pop music to chart better at radio again due to having more formats/crossover appeal.
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 10:29:26 GMT -5
Why did radio impressions get bigger as time went on...I'm a little pressed that Janet only peaked with 109M audience impressions but it was the fastest growing song on radio at the time... Janet peaked with 118 million. Which was huge, considering the record was only 141 million at that point. And she peaked at #3 on Rhythmic, #5 on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay, and #1 on Top 40. Destiny's Child reached #1 on all 3 formats with huge leads when they did 141 million. Every few months throughout the early 2000s radio audience in general got higher because station ratings were growing each year. "Independent Women" cracked 140 million in 2000, "U Got It Bad" cracked 150 million in 2002, "Hot In Herre" cracked 160 million in 2002, "In Da Club" cracked 170 million in 2003, then "We Belong Together" hit 200 million audience in 2005. After 2005, station ratings began to take a hit. Audience decreased across the board for stations, and also radio formats were beginning to change. Top 40 began playing less R&B/Hip-Hop in the late 2000s, and then HAC/AC completely changed as a format and started playing Pop hits which then allowed Pop music to chart better at radio again due to having more formats/crossover appeal. Ok. This clears it up. I assume if Janet had better Urban airplay it could've reached a higher audience. And since the record was 141 atp...who set the record?
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Post by phieaglesfan712 on Jan 24, 2022 10:51:23 GMT -5
Janet peaked with 118 million. Which was huge, considering the record was only 141 million at that point. And she peaked at #3 on Rhythmic, #5 on R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay, and #1 on Top 40. Destiny's Child reached #1 on all 3 formats with huge leads when they did 141 million. Every few months throughout the early 2000s radio audience in general got higher because station ratings were growing each year. "Independent Women" cracked 140 million in 2000, "U Got It Bad" cracked 150 million in 2002, "Hot In Herre" cracked 160 million in 2002, "In Da Club" cracked 170 million in 2003, then "We Belong Together" hit 200 million audience in 2005. After 2005, station ratings began to take a hit. Audience decreased across the board for stations, and also radio formats were beginning to change. Top 40 began playing less R&B/Hip-Hop in the late 2000s, and then HAC/AC completely changed as a format and started playing Pop hits which then allowed Pop music to chart better at radio again due to having more formats/crossover appeal. Ok. This clears it up. I assume if Janet had better Urban airplay it could've reached a higher audience. And since the record was 141 atp...who set the record? I’m pretty sure Smooth set the record some time in 1999 (I only see the first 2 weeks of 2000, but it was well past its peak by then), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Iris had a higher peak in 1998 (before airplay-only songs were added).
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 10:55:23 GMT -5
Crazy how in the 80s/early 90s lot of songs hit the 100M audience impressions with a few spins...and then to progress to more spins need to pass the 100M mark...Like A Prayer hit the 100M fast too with only a few thousand spins.
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WolfSpear
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Post by WolfSpear on Jan 24, 2022 11:18:56 GMT -5
Speaking of singles sales, this wasn’t the first time that the industry tanked with that format. If you look at the mid-80’s, sales for 45’s were at their lowest since the 1930’s. In large part, people wanted to get a bang for their buck, and cassettes may have not provided fidelity but they offered convenience and portability… (You can play them in the car or on a Walkman; can’t do that with vinyl.)
In a sense, 45’s basically promoted the album without the worry of cannibalizing LP sales. Remember, none of the singles from 1986 or 1987 ‘shipped’ a million copies within their year of release. As the cassette single became mainstream by the end of 1987, it managed to only stabilize the damage, but soon enough single sales would increase (again, not to 1970’s levels but still better than it had been). That’s partly how labels were issuing 6-7 singles for megastars and still pulling off Diamond certifications for albums… thank you, cassettes!
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 12:33:50 GMT -5
That's What Friends Are For, On My Own, Head To Toe I think we're certified within their year. But then again, that's 3 compared to the many that were out at the time
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mikerivera
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Post by mikerivera on Jan 24, 2022 12:59:49 GMT -5
So that's why chart runs for songs became so much shorter starting in 1984 and didn't start recovering until 1989. I've been wondering about that for almost a year now
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WolfSpear
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Post by WolfSpear on Jan 24, 2022 13:15:19 GMT -5
The length of chart runs varied depending on the era, really. You’ll notice that the 60’s saw the most chart entries but also some very short chart runs. To some extent, Billboard manipulated this and likewise both the retailers and disc jockeys. There are some very unusual rules/cutoffs that aren’t explicitly talked about but did exist…
When Nielsen took over and you have actual numbers to back things up, things slowed down on the Hot 100 and sped up on the Billboard 200… we’re talking 1991. The Hot 100 Airplay panel back then was Mainstream Top 40/Pop Songs; by 1998, that panel greatly expanded to incorporate country and urban radio, which otherwise would have had to compete on the same turf as pop. All these changes account for the runs getting longer, but the previous survey method was also imperfect…
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renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on Jan 24, 2022 13:18:35 GMT -5
So that's why chart runs for songs became so much shorter starting in 1984 and didn't start recovering until 1989. I've been wondering about that for almost a year now In January 1989 the RIAA lowered certification levels (from a million to 500k for gold) because of the shrinking singles sales market. Sales have fluctuated over the years but that was a low point.
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 24, 2022 14:42:14 GMT -5
Ok. This clears it up. I assume if Janet had better Urban airplay it could've reached a higher audience. And since the record was 141 atp...who set the record? I’m pretty sure Smooth set the record some time in 1999 (I only see the first 2 weeks of 2000, but it was well past its peak by then), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Iris had a higher peak in 1998 (before airplay-only songs were added). "Iris" wouldn't have had Urban (and likely not much Rhythmic) support, so its overall impressions may not have been huge. Does anyone know its Rhythmic peak? Crazy how in the 80s/early 90s lot of songs hit the 100M audience impressions with a few spins...and then to progress to more spins need to pass the 100M mark...Like A Prayer hit the 100M fast too with only a few thousand spins. I didn't know impressions existed in the 1980s. I thought that came about with BDS. Who was tabulating impressions in the 80s?
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 15:02:50 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure Smooth set the record some time in 1999 (I only see the first 2 weeks of 2000, but it was well past its peak by then), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Iris had a higher peak in 1998 (before airplay-only songs were added). "Iris" wouldn't have had Urban (and likely not much Rhythmic) support, so its overall impressions may not have been huge. Does anyone know its Rhythmic peak? Crazy how in the 80s/early 90s lot of songs hit the 100M audience impressions with a few spins...and then to progress to more spins need to pass the 100M mark...Like A Prayer hit the 100M fast too with only a few thousand spins. I didn't know impressions existed in the 1980s. I thought that came about with BDS. Who was tabulating impressions in the 80s? Yes, there is a magazine where BDS was keeping tabs in the late 80s. Started in 87 but didn't post until 88. Straight Up,Lost In Your Eyes, Everything I Do For You, and Like A Prayer are the ones I remember reaching over 100M impressions. Express Yourself, Real Love, and Every Little Step came close. And Taylor Dayne had a song that debuted at #16 on airplay...and Madonna debuted at #3, then the next week #1 with over 100M audiences
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jan 24, 2022 15:47:32 GMT -5
Highlights: - The R&B/Hip-Hop (Urban) format SURGED in ratings by this year. People say that the songs in that genre got huge crossover appeal, which is true, but at this point the audience for stations in this format was so high that songs were approaching 100 million audience from that format alone. The songs on that format didn't even need to crossover to hog the charts. - "Lean Back" reached #1 while not even charting on Top 40 radio. That may possibly be the only time in history a reached went #1 on radio without even charting on Pop. It had 110 million+ audience from Rhythmic and R&B/Hip-Hop alone. - Even American Idol was no longer immune from the physical singles market being dead. Fantasia sold nearly 3x less than Clay Aiken did. However it was the only #1 to sell over 5k.
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Jan 24, 2022 15:58:09 GMT -5
I always forget just how massive Usher was in 2004.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jan 24, 2022 16:03:51 GMT -5
Here was the audience total for the #1 on each radio format during a random week for comparison. (March 20th chart)
Mainstream Top 40 [Pop]: Toxic - 58.116 million Adult Top 40 [HAC]: Someday - 16.724 million Adult Contemporary: You Raise Me Up - 15.537 million Rhythmic: Yeah! - 35.941 million R&B/Hip Hop [Urban]: Yeah! - 78.193 million Adult R&B [Urban AC]: Sorry 2004 - 15.105 million Country: Watch The Wind Blow By - 34.697 million Modern Rock [Alternative]: Megalomaniac - 17.261 million
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 24, 2022 16:20:54 GMT -5
Ok. This clears it up. I assume if Janet had better Urban airplay it could've reached a higher audience. And since the record was 141 atp...who set the record? I’m pretty sure Smooth set the record some time in 1999 (I only see the first 2 weeks of 2000, but it was well past its peak by then), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Iris had a higher peak in 1998 (before airplay-only songs were added). I'm looking at the some of the 1999 issues and "Smooth" had these totals: November 20 - 113 million impressions and 61,000 sold (lowest total for a Sales #1 since February 1996) November 27 - 115 million impressions and 65,000 sold December 4 - (sold less than 58,000). At this point Billboard was writing about the low sales totals. (By the way, in the October 23 issue when "Smooth" took over #1 it was noted that "Heartbreaker" was ahead via sales and impressions, but "Smooth" took the overall lead once "non-monitored small-market playlists" were added in.)
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 16:50:36 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Billboard was not counting digital sales, but was counting physical sales which is why the sales total was low.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Jan 24, 2022 16:51:42 GMT -5
I’m pretty sure Smooth set the record some time in 1999 (I only see the first 2 weeks of 2000, but it was well past its peak by then), but I wouldn’t be surprised if Iris had a higher peak in 1998 (before airplay-only songs were added). Neither of those songs ever had the audience record actually. Dreamlover - 89 million, September 1993 I Love You Always Forever - 105 million, October 1996 My Heart Will Go On - 117 million, February 1998 No Scrubs - 141 million, April 1999 Independent Women - 141 million, December 2000 (slightly higher) Fallin' - 149 million, October 2001 U Got It Bad - 150 million, January 2002 Foolish - 155 million, May 2002 Hot In Herre - 163 million, July 2002 Dilemma - 168 million, September 2002 In Da Club - 170 million, March 2003 Yeah! - 173 million, April 2004 We Belong Together - 212 million, July 2005 Blurred Lines - 229 million, August 2013
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 16:55:29 GMT -5
I remember 2004 these songs were huge. Yeah, Hey Ya, Goodies, Lean Back, Drop It Like It's Hot, and Burn was all over the radio. You couldn't escape them. Usher was huge that year, I remember hating the song Yeah because of how overplayed it was. I didn't get the hype. But what a year...cant wait for 2005!
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 16:55:41 GMT -5
And kudos to having a year where nothing but black artists to top the charts. Black excellence at its finest!
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 24, 2022 16:56:50 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Billboard was not counting digital sales, but was counting physical sales which is why the sales total was low. Correct, but what digital sales were around in 1999?
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 16:59:03 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, Billboard was not counting digital sales, but was counting physical sales which is why the sales total was low. Correct, but what digital sales were around in 1999? I was referring to the 2003-2004 chart. The songs were all certified before streaming and after the physical era died and billboard didn't count digital downloads till late 2005.
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JukeboxJacob
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Post by JukeboxJacob on Jan 24, 2022 17:04:14 GMT -5
2004 was the peak of Urban music in the 2K's. EVERY #1 of the year was hip-hop, rap, crunk, bling, or R&B
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 24, 2022 17:06:55 GMT -5
2004 was the peak of Urban music in the 2K's. EVERY #1 of the year was hip-hop, rap, crunk, bling, or R&B Yes it was. 2004 was so fun!
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 24, 2022 17:20:02 GMT -5
Correct, but what digital sales were around in 1999? I was referring to the 2003-2004 chart. The songs were all certified before streaming and after the physical era died and billboard didn't count digital downloads till late 2005. Oh ok. Your reply showed up right under my post about the sales totals for 1999, so that wasn't clear. Billboard started incorporating digital sales in early 2005, not late.
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Jan 24, 2022 19:24:29 GMT -5
Did The Way You Move barely surpass Hey Ya with the help of sales? Cos it was still no. 2 airplay that week.
Also, was Toxic the only pure pop song to hit no. 1 on pop airplay and made top 10 Hot 100 in 2004?
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jenglisbe
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Post by jenglisbe on Jan 24, 2022 20:50:10 GMT -5
Did The Way You Move barely surpass Hey Ya with the help of sales? Cos it was still no. 2 airplay that week. "Slow Jamz" was #1 in airplay that week. "Move" beat it by 10 points due to sales and non-monitored stations; we've now seen a few instances where a song was barely #1 due to non-monitored stations ("This Used to Be My Playground" over "Baby Got Back," "Smooth" over "Heartbreaker," and "TWYM" over "Slow Jamz"). "Toxic" rose to #9 that same Hot 100 chart. It was #1 on Digital Tracks with 9,000 sold (2022 levels lol!). Speaking of, in regards to your question, define pop. Songs like "Pieces of Me" and "The Reason" reached the top 10.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Jan 24, 2022 22:42:03 GMT -5
brocka123- I've never heard about audience info for the late '80s. Also- 100 million in audience by just the second week? That seems a bit high, even accounting for all formats at the time.
Ahh, 2004... the calm of the Hot 100 and Hot 100 Airplay being nearly interchangeable (except when maybe a CD single or 12-inch sales gave some entries an advantage), before the digital storm arrived.
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Post by Private Dancer on Jan 25, 2022 1:15:00 GMT -5
brocka123- I've never heard about audience info for the late '80s. Also- 100 million in audience by just the second week? That seems a bit high, even accounting for all formats at the time. Ahh, 2004... the calm of the Hot 100 and Hot 100 Airplay being nearly interchangeable (except when maybe a CD single or 12-inch sales gave some entries an advantage), before the digital storm arrived. There's a magazine called Monday Morning Replay and it monitored the top 35 stations in America and Like A Prayer debuted at #3 and moved to #1 in its 2nd week and had 100M audience. It was ranked by spin count but also showed the audience. If I can find it, I will link it
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leoapp
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Post by leoapp on Jan 25, 2022 7:36:17 GMT -5
Did The Way You Move barely surpass Hey Ya with the help of sales? Cos it was still no. 2 airplay that week. "Slow Jamz" was #1 in airplay that week. "Move" beat it by 10 points due to sales and non-monitored stations; we've now seen a few instances where a song was barely #1 due to non-monitored stations ("This Used to Be My Playground" over "Baby Got Back," "Smooth" over "Heartbreaker," and "TWYM" over "Slow Jamz"). "Toxic" rose to #9 that same Hot 100 chart. It was #1 on Digital Tracks with 9,000 sold (2022 levels lol!). Speaking of, in regards to your question, define pop. Songs like "Pieces of Me" and "The Reason" reached the top 10. Well, Pieces Of Me and The Reason are more pop/rock. 2004 was cruel for pure pop music. Jessica Simpson's With You and Jojo's Leave (Get Out) were among the biggest pop hits that year, topping the pop airplay chart, but failed to make top 10 Hot 100. Luckily Toxic barely made No.9 Hot 100.
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mikerivera
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Post by mikerivera on Jan 25, 2022 9:12:31 GMT -5
2004 being the first full year of digital sales makes so much sense as to why so many songs that year are remembered. Even if the hot 100 wasn't including digital sales, the songs were being actively consumed as opposed to solely radio driven
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