Amnesiac
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Post by Amnesiac on Feb 6, 2023 13:43:42 GMT -5
Getting shocked or angry about Grammy upsets at this point is just silly to me. It's the Grammys for goodness sake. They've been making unusual/surprise/bad decisions for decades. Almost the entire time they've been around. Not just the award wins either, but never forget the Grammys were late to basically every sea change in pop music since the 50s: Rock, soul, folk, funk, punk, metal, hip hop, EDM, alternative, and reggae all waited years past their start before the Grammys gave them their own category.
Like, in 1967, they had a category called Best Contemporary (Rock and Roll) Recording. Totally meaningless category name, and they still messed it up. The nominees that year were "Cherish" by The Association, "Good Vibrations" by The Beach Boys, "Eleanor Rigby" by The Beatles, "Monday, Monday" by The Mamas and the Papas, "Last Train to Clarksville" by The Monkees - okay, so far so good with contemporary even if "Eleanor Rigby" doesn't have much rock to it but it's still the Beatles. And the sixth nominee was "Winchester Cathedral" by The New Vaudeville Band. And that won. Here's what "Winchester Cathedral" sounds like because no one remembers this song.
That's contemporary rock and roll from 1967 apparently according to the Grammys. Imagine Monkees or Beatles fans flipping out over these music hall guys winning the Rock and Roll category lol. The New Vaudeville Band's sound wasn't even their own original idea, the producer and record label that assembled them basically swiped their sound from the Bonzo Dog-Doo Dah Band, the Beatles/Monty Python affiliate band who went in a more comedy/rock direction after "Winchester Cathedral" came out.
Oh, and 1967 is the year the Grammys decided to not award Best New Artist. Maybe these goofs would've won that too over the Monkees.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Feb 6, 2023 13:48:17 GMT -5
a white man not being specific when saying "people like me don't win often" will rub people the wrong way and that's why people are having a problem with what he said When he says "people like me," it should be OBVIOUS to any rational-thinking person that he is not referring to "white men." I mean, the outrage over something that is CRYSTAL CLEAR is UNREASONABLE. Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Shockingly, not everyone has your mind, boo.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 6, 2023 13:54:39 GMT -5
Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Hey, buddy pal. No, it is crystal clear.
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cjay
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Post by cjay on Feb 6, 2023 13:56:21 GMT -5
I think this is definitely part of the issue. Beyoncé is seen by the industry as a vocalist and entertainer. Her songwriting and production skills are not taken seriously because of the multiple songwriter issue and all the allegations that she “steals” writing credit for contributing a couple of words. Perhaps this was the case at the beginning of her solo career. But I think she’s gotten more involved with those aspects since her self titled album. Beyoncé seems to take the feedback (to an extent) and incorporate it into her next projects. So, I wonder if her next album will be with a small production and songwriting team?! Regardless of her writing contributions, lack thereof, etc, it's clear Beyonce has a vision for her art. Even if she works with several writers on a song and uses samples, I think by now it's beyond clear she is the person driving the bus, directing the movie, [insert some other stock phrase]. Who else is bringing projects like Lemonade and Renaissance to life? Even if someone doesn't love those albums, it's more than clear there is a vision and sense of artistic purpose behind them. To belittle Beyonce as an artist because she doesn't sit down with a guitar and write the songs herself is to miss the point entirely. OK thank u vm for that history and explanation. It makes a bit more sense now. I still hate the Grammys though lol For the record it was meant as explanation, in a sense, but definitely not praise. It's obviously insane that so few R&B and hip-hop songs and albums have won in the major categories over the years. It's very interesting - in a troubling way - that for as much as R&B and hip-hop dominated a lot of the 2000s, we didn't get a ROTY winner that reflected it (and only Outkast won AOTY). It's also interesting because "Fallin" and "Single Ladies" both won SOTY, yet neither won ROTY (and neither Alicia or Beyonce have won AOTY despite being Grammy favorites otherwise). Mariah Carey is 0-for-6 in AOTY and ROTY (and then 0-for-2 in SOTY). Kanye West and Kendrick Lamar have never won a Grammy in the major categories. It's all very wild and worth discussion. I completely agree! And, we know that for many of these voters prefer artist that play instruments and wrote their own songs with just one or two people. I would argue (to an extent) that Taylor Swift is one of few artist that also brings concept albums to life. I’m sure you won’t like this mention 😛. To be clear, I am not saying TS is better than Beyoncé. I love both artist equally. But I draw the comparison to point out one difference—TS has a very small team of collaborators and is very well known as a songwriter (with a mediocre voice) and plays two instruments. And Grammy voters LOVE this! Consistently, for 60 years they have voted for these type of artist time and time again. So TS keeps winning AOTY. It really is a shame that Grammy voters can’t expand their view of what a good artist is.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Feb 6, 2023 13:56:35 GMT -5
It's kinda hilarious when you look at the last 40 years of AOTY winners. So many boneheaded decisions. Even if we discount snubs that missed out on nominations, when they do get a solid group they award MOR, safer material or veterans they feel are past due a lot of the time.
I know hindsight is 20/20. But you can't tell me in 1985 any sane person truly thought Lionel Richie deserved to win over any of those iconic albums.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Feb 6, 2023 14:14:03 GMT -5
Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Hey, buddy pal. No, it is crystal clear.
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Post by Private Dancer on Feb 6, 2023 14:59:12 GMT -5
It's kinda hilarious when you look at the last 40 years of AOTY winners. So many boneheaded decisions. Even if we discount snubs that missed out on nominations, when they do get a solid group they award MOR, safer material or veterans they feel are past due a lot of the time. I know hindsight is 20/20. But you can't tell me in 1985 any sane person truly thought Lionel Richie deserved to win over any of those iconic albums. No, really! Explain how is Can't Slow Down more deserving than Private Dancer, She's So Unusual and Purple Rain?
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Feb 6, 2023 15:03:31 GMT -5
Hey, buddy pal. No, it is crystal clear. Wait, was she about to light a blunt? I never noticed that sksksksksk
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Feb 6, 2023 15:25:34 GMT -5
When he says "people like me," it should be OBVIOUS to any rational-thinking person that he is not referring to "white men." I mean, the outrage over something that is CRYSTAL CLEAR is UNREASONABLE. Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Shockingly, not everyone has your mind, boo. It's crystal clear. People just want to pretend they're outraged because they enjoy the drama.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 6, 2023 15:26:18 GMT -5
LOL @ me getting heat in this thread for pointing out the issue with the Grammys… which is now being universally agreed on after the ceremony. This outcome was expected, it’s the same outcome they’ve become accustomed to. It's kinda hilarious when you look at the last 40 years of AOTY winners. So many boneheaded decisions. Even if we discount snubs that missed out on nominations, when they do get a solid group they award MOR, safer material or veterans they feel are past due a lot of the time. I know hindsight is 20/20. But you can't tell me in 1985 any sane person truly thought Lionel Richie deserved to win over any of those iconic albums. They’ve gotten it wrong probably more then they’ve got it right historically. They’ve pretty much always been out of touch with culture to a decent extent and in their own little worlds. A Tony Bennett live album won AOTY in the 90s in a time where Nirvana, Snoop Dogg, and the likes were redefining mainstream music. Recording Academy is basically no different than the Government - a bunch of elderly white people out of touch that were somehow deemed to gauge and shape current culture. Harry’s win makes sense. Ofcourse 70 year old white men weren’t going to vote a Beyonce or Bad Bunny that is defining a current culture they aren’t in touch with. They were going to either go the route of someone making bland AC appealing soccer-mom friendly music that’s somewhat digestible to them (Harry, Adele, Bruno, etc) or the so called “wildcard” with “authentic music” (Bonnie, Beck, etc) which is usually just some industry veteran that has accumulated many ties and gets automatic votes from those who hate the current state of music but feel the need to involve themselves in voting. Don’t even get me started on that simple ass Bonnie song that won lol.
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1Q7
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Post by 1Q7 on Feb 6, 2023 15:31:47 GMT -5
Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Shockingly, not everyone has your mind, boo. It's crystal clear. People just want to pretend they're outraged because they enjoy the drama.Pulse in a nutshell.
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rnb
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Post by rnb on Feb 6, 2023 15:40:35 GMT -5
this is a whole ass mess at this point
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Feb 6, 2023 15:51:02 GMT -5
Obviously if it was crystal clear, there wouldn't be outrage. So I guess it wasn't so crystal clear then, was it? Shockingly, not everyone has your mind, boo. It's crystal clear. People just want to pretend they're outraged because they enjoy the drama. Usually, sure, but not this time. I don't get why this is such a hard concept for y'all. Doing the most to defend a pandering straight white man when the reality is that the controversy of his statement isn't even that deep. Maybe you and Luckie are just too old to get it? I dunno. But there's no need to call others racist or completely dismiss a not insignificant amount of people as "just looking to be angry" for Harry fucking Styles. He'll be more than fine, everyone will move on, and next year we'll bitch about some other Grammy speech.
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Soundcl🕤ck
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Post by Soundcl🕤ck on Feb 6, 2023 15:55:02 GMT -5
Don’t even get me started on that simple ass Bonnie song that won lol. that silence tho...after the announcement, awkward as hell. I really don't think they should give SOTY/ROTY to the most popular song of the year, but at least give it to a song that has more than 3M streams.
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Feb 6, 2023 15:59:12 GMT -5
He did not just almost fall!!! I havent gotten to the end of the thread yet so this may have already been answers, but there was a technical issue with that rotating platform they were all on. One of the dancers posted that when they first stepped out to perform, someone had set it up to actually spin the opposite direction from what had been rehearsed. So they all had to quickly figure out how to reverse everything on the fly. Not easy! Au$tin
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Feb 6, 2023 15:59:59 GMT -5
That "Gary" introduction was so cringe lol Wait what? Who was that that introduced Harry? this may have already been answered but Kid Harpoon.
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 6, 2023 16:02:05 GMT -5
Don’t even get me started on that simple ass Bonnie song that won lol. that silence tho...after the announcement, awkward as hell. I really don't think they should give SOTY/ROTY to the most popular song of the year, but at least give it to a song that has more than 3M streams. Popularity completely aside listening to the song… it’s a boring song lol. It’s just totally unremarkable. OK - it tells a sad/deep story. You can make a song with sad lyrics and have it be amazing, and you can have one that feels empty and by-the-script. It falls into the latter. Just as much as a winner shouldn’t be popularity based, it also shouldn’t be the one that stereotypically checks the box of “real/meaningful music” to a bunch of elderly people who can’t be bothered to listen to anything current.
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Feb 6, 2023 16:02:06 GMT -5
Is it just the microphone/crappy audio mixing or is Harry just that hard to understand live? The low notes in the verses are basically unintelligible. If you listen to videos by people who where actually there and recorded on their phone it sounded so much better. What came through the tv was not it. And not what he actually sounds like live.
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Amnesiac
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Post by Amnesiac on Feb 6, 2023 16:16:33 GMT -5
They’ve gotten it wrong probably more then they’ve got it right historically. They’ve pretty much always been out of touch with culture to a decent extent and in their own little worlds. A Tony Bennett live album won AOTY in the 90s in a time where Nirvana, Snoop Dogg, and the likes were redefining mainstream music. Recording Academy is basically no different than the Government - a bunch of elderly white people out of touch that were somehow deemed to gauge and shape current culture. Harry’s win makes sense. Ofcourse 70 year old white men weren’t going to vote a Beyonce or Bad Bunny that is defining a current culture they aren’t in touch with. They were going to either go the route of someone making bland AC appealing soccer-mom friendly music that’s somewhat digestible to them (Harry, Adele, Bruno, etc) or the so called “wildcard” with “authentic music” (Bonnie, Beck, etc) which is usually just some industry veteran that has accumulated many ties and gets automatic votes from those who hate the current state of music but feel the need to involve themselves in voting. This is why I thought ABBA had a chance even a year ago. It would've been such a Grammy move to give them AOTY as a lifetime achievement/sorry we never gave you a Grammy in your prime award like they did for Steely Dan and Robert Plant. But they didn't even get one award, and they didn't even show up. That's also how I feel about the Bonnie Raitt win for Song even though she has plenty of Grammys. It seems like they wanted a traditional songwriters song this year, and a blues folk song inspired by John Prine with a twist ending performed by a living legend is totally going to speak to Grammy voters. I never discounted Raitt winning.
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Feb 6, 2023 16:21:49 GMT -5
OMG Lizzo winning Record of the Year! I was not expecting that but yayy I'm sooo happy "About Damn Time" won something. Love that song! And loved Lizzo's speeech! Yes - loved her speech! She really seems like a wonderful (and fun!) person.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Feb 6, 2023 16:22:46 GMT -5
Don’t even get me started on that simple ass Bonnie song that won lol. that silence tho...after the announcement, awkward as hell. I really don't think they should give SOTY/ROTY to the most popular song of the year, but at least give it to a song that has more than 3M streams. But why? The only argument I’ve seen against Bonnie receiving that award is that the song wasn’t known enough and I’m not sure why that has to be a strike against it if the song itself is worthy (which comes down to opinion and in mine, it certainly is).
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iHype.
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Post by iHype. on Feb 6, 2023 16:31:24 GMT -5
that silence tho...after the announcement, awkward as hell. I really don't think they should give SOTY/ROTY to the most popular song of the year, but at least give it to a song that has more than 3M streams. But why? The only argument I’ve seen against Bonnie receiving that award is that the song wasn’t known enough and I’m not sure why that has to be a strike against it if the song itself is worthy (which comes down to opinion and in mine, it certainly is). ”Just Like That” reads like a Lifetime movie script converted into a poem. Bleh lol. I’ll take a “Drivers License”, “Happier Than Ever”, or “All Too Well” as more captivating songwriting showcases amongst recent nominees. I think it relies too much on simply having a sorrow subject matter rather than truly being unique and personably crafted.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Feb 6, 2023 16:43:55 GMT -5
The Beyonce god-worship is too much. I like the album but goddamn! The show was bending over backwards to cater to her and she couldn't even be bothered to get herself there in time. Everyone needs a reality check when it comes to this woman. I don't get the whole being late thing. How come she had a picture holding 3 grammys ready to be posted on Instagram?
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Feb 6, 2023 16:45:02 GMT -5
Don’t even get me started on that simple ass Bonnie song that won lol. Bonnie is an iconic legend.
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spiritboy
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Post by spiritboy on Feb 6, 2023 17:29:40 GMT -5
Instead of complaining every year, maybe some of you guys should stop watching Grammy Awards?
Personally, i would've preferred if Coldplay or Adele won AOTY but i love Harry as well and i'm happy for him.
Madonna and other legends never won an AOTY Grammy so King B is in good company there.
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Kelly's 10th Fan
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Post by Kelly's 10th Fan on Feb 6, 2023 17:37:53 GMT -5
I didn't expect Renaissance to win AOTY but it didn't occur to me until after the show how much it would piss me off that the one loss is overshadowing her record breaking night so much. That's an amazing accomplishment regardless of the categories those wins came from and there's not going to be one single article out there simply commending her for that success and leaving off all the extra thinkpiece bs. It's so RARE that black women ever get to just be honored. Always has to be a f**king fight about about a black woman just being admired and loved and I hate it.
Admittedly it doesn't help when Bey looks visibly disappointed in the outcome; it's clear she's bought into that mentality too, that the AOTY is the award that really "matters." She's chasing after acceptance from people who never mattered or added one drop to her legacy, and that's really sad. She should stop submitting, not even so much as a middle finger to the Grammys but just because she needs to shake off that need for outer validation. Someone needs to send her a 'you are enough' motivational keychain or something.
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marcyiam
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Post by marcyiam on Feb 6, 2023 18:15:26 GMT -5
He did not just almost fall!!! I havent gotten to the end of the thread yet so this may have already been answers, but there was a technical issue with that rotating platform they were all on. One of the dancers posted that when they first stepped out to perform, someone had set it up to actually spin the opposite direction from what had been rehearsed. So they all had to quickly figure out how to reverse everything on the fly. Not easy! Au$tinFollow-up on this for anyone interested. I can't even imagine, especially on live tv: I've seen him perform this song multiple times and could tell something wasn't right. So between this and the broadcast sound being off, it wasn't what it could have been which is sad. But kudos to all of them for that entire performance.
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kcdawg13
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Post by kcdawg13 on Feb 6, 2023 18:21:33 GMT -5
Honestly, I knew that album would win AOTY. Despite relatively good reviews and the commercial success, I could just not get into that album like everyone else did, I thought it was bland white bread pop music with no seasoning. I can't see what anyone sees in Harry Styles, he's our blandest male pop star even beyond Justin Bieber, dude doesn't dance, he doesn't sing very well as evident from his performance, he doesn't have much onstage charisma, I just don't get it.
BUT he's a very Grammy artist, since the beginning of his solo career he has made music that was obvious Grammy bait, fortunately Fine Line felt like he finally moved into some groove with songs like Adore You and Watermelon Sugar, but he regressed back into the easy listening early 70's throwback music that old Grammy voters love with Harry's House, so I just knew it would win AOTY. It wasn't a surprise.
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Luckie Starchild
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Post by Luckie Starchild on Feb 6, 2023 19:23:57 GMT -5
Madonna and other legends never won an AOTY Grammy so King B is in good company there. Plus the Beach Boys, Diana Ross, and Queen never won a single Grammy and yet we have all of this whining and whinging over an artist winning a zillion Grammys but not AOTY.
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Mike
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Post by Mike on Feb 6, 2023 20:09:22 GMT -5
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