Katy Perry – “143” coming to slay/ "The LIFETIMES Tour"

[Ivy Leegue™]

Dr. Puke is Dr. Puke and seems to be a terrible person overall. That said, he has had MEGA hits only a couple years ago, so I'm really not surprised Katy ran back to him for a hit in 2024. I think this is her last grasp and chance at relevance, especially now that she is done with Idol. Let's not forget, due to his Doja and Saweetie involvement, he was nominated for Grammys in 2022, which is fairly recent. He also wrote and produced the hits Big Energy for Latto, Super Freaky Girl for Nicki, and All My Life for Lil Durk & J Cole. I'm willing to bet that, if the GP embraced those songs so wholeheartedly enough to make them bonafide hits, they will do the same for Katy's songs with him, IF they are actually good, which remains to be seen. Let's not forget: Chris Brown continues to have hits in this current environment. Do we REALLY think the GP has a strong moral compass all of a sudden?

[iHype.]

Jun 26, 2024 3:26:08 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Jun 26, 2024 2:00:57 GMT -5 iHype. said:

And again what is the principle? When Katy is uniquely someone who was victim of proven false accusations being spread by Kesha.

Kesha herself also never issued any apology, retraction, or otherwise tried to reach out to Katy to our knowledge after going around and spreading lies on her being sexually assaulted. So why is she seemingly not having to abide by any principles with Katy, but Katy is expected to in return?..

Let's not be disingenuous here. I think you know very well what principle I am referencing. Let's not act shocked or surprised people take issue with Katy, or any artist for that matter, working with an accused rapist, particularly given we all know the sensitive climate we're living in now where merely supporting someone with what one believes is a generally unpopular opinion could get side-eyed. Kesha was wrong to publicly speak on Katy's experience with Dr. Luke as it wasn't her place (though personally I don't feel she was lying, speaking untruths with the intention of doing so, just Katy maybe didn't want said information publicly announced or Kesha was misinformed etc). Not everyone interpreted nor frames what Kesha had to say about Katy in the intentionally malicious way you do. And again, you keep framing this as a Katy vs Kesha thing, when it's not. It's an issue with Katy and who she aligns herself with in reflection of her character and morality independent of Kesha, especially as Katy presents a female empowerment anthem as the lead for her new album. Kesha herself could have been replaced by any other female and people would still feel the same. Her choosing to work with him certainly wouldn't gain her any points on the pro-woman front and it plays as hypocritical given her stance as a feminist, their personal issues aside. It's not complicated. Personally I'm shocked she would choose to work with him because it's detrimental to her own image and career. Whatever her personal feelings for Kesha, the optics are terrible.

Jun 26, 2024 10:26:40 GMT -5 dbhmr said:

Also, I might be remembering wrong, but the Kesha accusation about Katy was in a private text between Kesha and Lady Gaga that...Dr. Luke subpoenaed and therefore made public record, right?

Anyway, can't believe people are pretending to be so obtuse that they can't see why rejoining with Luke for her comeback single is a terrible idea for someone who wants a hit in 2024.

It doesn’t really matter whether it was discussed in private or public. If someone was conversing with even just 1 person privately about a good friend of yours falsely raping you then you would be horrified, outraged, and thrown off entirely by the situation.

Then you are now being pressured to move in support of their other (non proven) allegations or you’re a bad person and not pro-women.

It’s an odd and rather lose-lose situation Katy was put in. It’s not she simply just worked with an alleged rapist, she has been friends and worked with him for almost 20 years. She either has to completely sever all that for something she feels uncertainly about (further heightened by proven false accusations being made including her name) or face harsh backlash for not.

I can definitely understand the perspective that doing pro-feminism music with him is rather color blind in aftermath. But with her ties to Luke in general it’s really just an unfortunately negative situation for her no matter what and I think she really tried to do the most objective and best things prior. She disassociated with him for almost a decade, never came out in public support of a side, and completely waited for all legal issues to conclude.

[Enigma.]

But she cannot command people to think that suddenly Dr. Luke being involved doesn't matter. People can judge themselves if it matters or not and her being part of the same generation with Kesha it's always going to be different than someone like Latto or Lil Durk.

Again, she didn't need to run to Dr. Luke for this project but she did.

[PGriffin]

I really don't get why Katy is being held to a different standard (friend/ ally or not). Other have worked with him and I don't remember any backlash surrounding those songs. At the end of the day, business is business.

[Caviar]

Jun 26, 2024 15:10:23 GMT -5 PGriffin said:

I really don't get why Katy is being held to a different standard (friend/ ally or not). Other have worked with him and I don't remember any backlash surrounding those songs. At the end of the day, business is business.

People just want to be offended about something.

[avamaxstan]

Jun 26, 2024 11:08:08 GMT -5 Ivy Leegue™ said:

Dr. Puke is Dr. Puke and seems to be a terrible person overall. That said, he has had MEGA hits only a couple years ago, so I'm really not surprised Katy ran back to him for a hit in 2024. I think this is her last grasp and chance at relevance, especially now that she is done with Idol. Let's not forget, due to his Doja and Saweetie involvement, he was nominated for Grammys in 2022, which is fairly recent. He also wrote and produced the hits Big Energy for Latto, Super Freaky Girl for Nicki, and All My Life for Lil Durk & J Cole. I'm willing to bet that, if the GP embraced those songs so wholeheartedly enough to make them bonafide hits, they will do the same for Katy's songs with him, IF they are actually good, which remains to be seen. Let's not forget: Chris Brown continues to have hits in this current environment. Do we REALLY think the GP has a strong moral compass all of a sudden?

When it comes down to it, if the song bops and is a hit, the public will overlook anything problematic. That's why I'm perplexed at this very-drawn-out launch strategy... It's created a vacuum that's been filled with negative discourse of the snippet and her collaboration with Dr. Luke. Maybe she felt it was safe because he's had recent success with urban artists, but it's a different ballgame with a female pop star whose fanbase is primarily woke millennial women and gays.  It feels like such an unforced error when she had all the comeback momentum working in her favor.

[Ivy Leegue™]

Jun 26, 2024 15:30:11 GMT -5 avamaxstan said:

Maybe she felt it was safe because he's had recent success with urban artists, but it's a different ballgame with a female pop star whose fanbase is primarily woke millennial women and gays.  It feels like such an unforced error when she had all the comeback momentum working in her favor.

Bingo. I think you pretty much nailed why it's actually an issue that she is working with him. Well...couple that with the fact that it is a woman's empowerment anthem when, at the very least, we know he is not someone who empowers women. I believe both Kelly Clarkson and P!nk can attest to that much, at the very least. R&B and hip-hop fans embraced R. Kelly LONG after the infamous video appeared and, like I said, Chris Brown is still getting work and success (not to mention having WOMEN defend him...), so if Dr. Luke worked in those genres, I feel like most people wouldn't bat an eye.

[wavey.]

The song isn't even out yet can it flop first?! Gatdamn😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 26, 2024 15:57:01 GMT -5 wavey. said:

The song isn't even out yet can it flop first?! Gatdamn😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫😵‍💫

Yeah, no one is really discussing the song's performance or labeling it a "flop" or "dead on arrival", we're discussing the conversation circling the era and why her working with Luke is not a beneficial look for Katy. Are we not allowed to do as we do for literally any and every other artist on Pulse?

I agree with the above sentiments completely. The difference between a choice few collaborations and Katy is audience, who should always be taken into consideration before making decisions. Different audiences are willing to overlook different things and a big pop girl's audience can be a scrupulous, virtuous bunch.

As for Katy's personal relationship with Dr. Luke, I don't think they're as close nor was it as much of a heart-wrenching decision as some would lay it out to be. I just think Katy's desperate to reclaim commercial success by any means necessary, which, though understandable on its own, is disappointing to learn she'd be willing to recruit a truly horrible person to achieve it (which is still perplexing to me given the whole apparent empty epiphany she had post-Witness where she claimed success wasn't everything). Their personal relationship aside, I'm sure they're both well aware the ramifications of choosing to collaborate, so she can't scoff at any ensuing backlash. It's not as if she was in contract to work with him. She didn't even have to choose to enlist him at all to avoid any personal conflict and this entire situation; there were plenty of people/producers who are far more successful at this point that she could have enlisted to achieve what she wanted to, but she chose to uplift him anyway. She didn't need him for her last two albums, so it's not as if she's dependent, which leads me to believe even more that his inclusion is solely driven by her desperation for commercial resurgence.

To some an artist could work with a serial killer and it make no difference as they, simply put, don't care, but for others you are the company you keep and they are a reflection of you and your character. By aligning yourself with them, you effectively condone their history, particularly in a business arrangement where you'll be padding their credentials and wallet. You can't blame people for judging, particularly when in Luke's case his filthy laundry was hung up to dry in front of the entire nation. And imagine, one turning a cheek to a broken woman's rape allegations and championing her rapist being seen as not pro-woman. Well, yeah, no sh*t they would be. lol

[wavey.]

Never said it wasn't allowed to be discussed. I just want to hear the song.

Have at it!

[Ivy Leegue™]

Honestly, if Katy gives me a Roulette on this album, she can work with fucking Satan himself. That song remains her best, down to her "Oh." ad-lib. I'm glad she dropped the ballads for this album because, I agree, overall...not her strong suit. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the Witness tour and heard her belt. I used to call her voice ugly (and it can be, tone-wise, I would call it...strident), but she really was up there singing strong. That said, if it's not like Unconditionally, keep it away from the album and it sounds like it's all uptempo, so yay! I would rather it be electro-pop (like Chromatica) than her tepid house attempts (not going to name names and get the Kitty Cats claws to come out, but y'all know the one people act like is the next Pride anthem, LOL.)

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 26, 2024 19:01:26 GMT -5 Ivy Leegue™ said:

I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the Witness tour and heard her belt. I used to call her voice ugly (and it can be, tone-wise, I would call it...strident), but she really was up there singing strong.

You know what's funny is I've had this kind of yoyo-like appreciation for Katy's voice. When I first heard her singing she was performing acousticly with a guitar songs like "Thinking Of You" and "Ur So Gay" (🙄 but 🥰) etc and I found her voice fantastic. Like range maybe not incredible, but she knew how to utilize it beautifully! Then "Firework" dropped and I saw her butcher it again and again and was like, oh, maybe not. But then she has stunning performances like her bathroom performance of "Never Really Over". lol Maybe her voice just shines more stripped down, but it's definitely inconsistent and shaky when she goes for belting high.

That said, if it's not like Unconditionally, keep it away from the album

Yaaaaaaas! "Unconditionally" appreciation!! I was obsessed with this song and still feel it deserved to be another huge #1 for her (damn "Dark Horse" 😒). Such a beautiful song.


I will say all the Luke mess aside, Katy is really serving lewks this era. Likely the best she has ever looked!

[Music Fan]

You all get into wars for no damn reason. The general population will not even be aware of, or care that she's working with Dr. Luke. The song will not be a success because his name is attached nor will it be a failure because his name is attached. END OF STORY. The song will rise or fail because it's good or bad. Simple.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 26, 2024 19:22:02 GMT -5 Music Fan said:

You all get into wars for no damn reason. The general population will not even be aware of, or care that she's working with Dr. Luke. The song will not be a success because his name is attached nor will it be a failure because his name is attached. END OF STORY. The song will rise or fail because it's good or bad. Simple.

Was this ever a discussion about this collaboration being the "demise of Katy" or "killing this era" commercially? Or even about the general population reacting adversely? I don't think so. It's people (social media more or less) who follow music, its artists, and the industry closely discussing news pertinent to what we follow. There is no war. There is a valid, relevant discussion being had. Why people find it so triggering is odd to me. It's like some of you hate that it's being touched on in any capacity. Not a single soul has argued this song would flop due to Dr. Luke. People are merely criticizing Katy and her character for her choosing to do so. I guess some are just finding that critcism unbearable and that's the issue? Idk.

[Ivy Leegue™]

Yeah, I gotta say, I am grateful for how civil the discourse has been overall here. Not every thread is as fortunate. People are allowed to disagree without people jumping in and invalidating their opinions or attempting to shut down discussion. That's not how it works. I am actually excited to hear this song now. All of this Katy chat is making me hungry!

[surfy]

okay but speaking of her ballads justice for Thinking Of You because goddamn that song still goes so hard

[Enigma.]

Jun 26, 2024 19:28:45 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Jun 26, 2024 19:22:02 GMT -5 Music Fan said:

You all get into wars for no damn reason. The general population will not even be aware of, or care that she's working with Dr. Luke. The song will not be a success because his name is attached nor will it be a failure because his name is attached. END OF STORY. The song will rise or fail because it's good or bad. Simple.

Was this ever a discussion about this collaboration being the "demise of Katy" or "killing this era" commercially? Or even about the general population reacting adversely? I don't think so. It's people (social media more or less) who follow music, its artists, and the industry closely discussing news pertinent to what we follow. There is no war. There is a valid, relevant discussion being had. Why people find it so triggering is odd to me. It's like some of you hate that it's being touched on in any capacity. Not a single soul has argued this song would flop due to Dr. Luke. People are merely criticizing Katy and her character for her choosing to do so. I guess some are just finding that critcism unbearable and that's the issue? Idk.

This! Nobody is talking about the song flopping, we are talking about how does it LOOK for her that it's going this way. Imagine if Taylor Swift did a song with Dr. Luke... she wouldn't, end of. Katy too is a star who doesn't need the doctor to remain one.

[Rose "Payola" Nylund]

Jun 26, 2024 19:01:26 GMT -5 Ivy Leegue™ said:

Honestly, if Katy gives me a Roulette on this album, she can work with fucking Satan himself. That song remains her best, down to her "Oh." ad-lib. I'm glad she dropped the ballads for this album because, I agree, overall...not her strong suit. I was pleasantly surprised when I saw the Witness tour and heard her belt. I used to call her voice ugly (and it can be, tone-wise, I would call it...strident), but she really was up there singing strong. That said, if it's not like Unconditionally, keep it away from the album and it sounds like it's all uptempo, so yay! I would rather it be electro-pop (like Chromatica) than her tepid house attempts (not going to name names and get the Kitty Cats claws to come out, but y'all know the one people act like is the next Pride anthem, LOL.)

Okay but Walking On Air is fire so you’re wrong 😎

[Ivy Leegue™]

Jun 27, 2024 7:05:55 GMT -5 Rose "Payola" Nylund said:

Okay but Walking On Air is fire so you’re wrong 😎

Werq hernty bernty kernty or whatever people who love that song would say!

[gbaby]

Jun 26, 2024 19:13:27 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Yaaaaaaas! "Unconditionally" appreciation!! I was obsessed with this song and still feel it deserved to be another huge #1 for her (damn "Dark Horse" 😒). Such a beautiful song.


I will say all the Luke mess aside, Katy is really serving lewks this era. Likely the best she has ever looked!

Both of these are absolutely correct!

[Bhad Bill]

I’ve waited all year to watch her can’t cancel pride music video and I’m gonna watch it tonight leading into NYC pride weekend.

Can’t wait for the new song. I will always love KP.

Appreciate the discussion in here. I hate Dr. Luke but I’m complicit af. I love his music and want a BOP.

[avamaxstan]

Jun 27, 2024 1:20:17 GMT -5 Enigma. said:

Jun 26, 2024 19:28:45 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Was this ever a discussion about this collaboration being the "demise of Katy" or "killing this era" commercially? Or even about the general population reacting adversely? I don't think so. It's people (social media more or less) who follow music, its artists, and the industry closely discussing news pertinent to what we follow. There is no war. There is a valid, relevant discussion being had. Why people find it so triggering is odd to me. It's like some of you hate that it's being touched on in any capacity. Not a single soul has argued this song would flop due to Dr. Luke. People are merely criticizing Katy and her character for her choosing to do so. I guess some are just finding that critcism unbearable and that's the issue? Idk.

This! Nobody is talking about the song flopping, we are talking about how does it LOOK for her that it's going this way. Imagine if Taylor Swift did a song with Dr. Luke... she wouldn't, end of. Katy too is a star who doesn't need the doctor to remain one.

Katy's management might've felt she *did* need Luke since her career tanked after they parted ways. But I don't get why they couldn't have just used a different producer to emulate the Dr. Luke sound, like whoever did Espresso. 

[👑 Eloquent ™]

If she felt the need to dip back into the old hit songwriters pool for new material Bonnie McKee was right there and a much better choice.

[Caviar]

Jun 27, 2024 13:43:16 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

If she felt the need to dip back into the old hit songwriters pool for new material Bonnie McKee was right there and a much better choice.

She doesn't produce.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 27, 2024 13:44:36 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Jun 27, 2024 13:43:16 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

If she felt the need to dip back into the old hit songwriters pool for new material Bonnie McKee was right there and a much better choice.

She doesn't produce.

That's why I said songwriter. If they wanted to recapture "old magic" they had better selections. =)

[KeepDeanWeird]

Jun 26, 2024 21:36:51 GMT -5 surfy said:

okay but speaking of her ballads justice for Thinking Of You because goddamn that song still goes so hard

And the 2nd video still hits....

[Caviar]

Jun 27, 2024 13:50:45 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Jun 27, 2024 13:44:36 GMT -5 Caviar said:

She doesn't produce.

That's why I said songwriter. If they wanted to recapture "old magic" they had better selections. =)

When was Bonnie's last hit?

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 27, 2024 13:52:14 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Jun 27, 2024 13:50:45 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

That's why I said songwriter. If they wanted to recapture "old magic" they had better selections. =)

When was Bonnie's last hit?

You yourself said you hoped Bonnie was involved with this album, so are you just nitpicking now to argue because you didn't like what I had to say about the whole Luke situation, or...., cause you didn't seem to be concerned with her current hit status before? lol

Jun 19, 2024 10:39:17 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Hopefully Bonnie is involved.

[Caviar]

Jun 27, 2024 13:55:21 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

Jun 27, 2024 13:52:14 GMT -5 Caviar said:

When was Bonnie's last hit?

You yourself said you hoped Bonnie was involved with this album, so are you just nitpicking now to argue because you didn't like what I had to say about the whole Luke situation, or...., cause you didn't seem to be concerned with her current hit status before? lol

Jun 19, 2024 10:39:17 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Hopefully Bonnie is involved.

That doesn't answer the question though. Bonnie is one of the best songwriters Katy has worked with but it still goes back to when was her last hit? It was a genuine question.

[👑 Eloquent ™]

Jun 27, 2024 14:00:06 GMT -5 Caviar said:

Jun 27, 2024 13:55:21 GMT -5 👑 Eloquent ™ said:

You yourself said you hoped Bonnie was involved with this album, so are you just nitpicking now to argue because you didn't like what I had to say about the whole Luke situation, or...., cause you didn't seem to be concerned with her current hit status before? lol

That doesn't answer the question though. Bonnie is one of the best songwriters Katy has worked with but it still goes back to when was her last hit? It was a genuine question.

I have no idea. Haven't checked. Google is free tho!