Acid Eyes
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Post by Acid Eyes on Aug 11, 2024 21:42:21 GMT -5
Curious what everyone thinks about this. For those who don't know, Zach is kind of a controversial figure among Swifties as while he's definitely a fan, he doesn't exactly drink the Kool-Aid and has been aggressively critical of Taylor at times.
This sounds extremely well-thought out and well-researched as far as I can tell. His one flub is when he said she only won Album of the Year 3x lol (which he corrects in the comments).
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 12, 2024 14:49:39 GMT -5
^ In agreement with pretty much everything he said about TTPD's utilizing of chart strategies within the rules to maximize performance and I do agree that Taylor's big end game is to be the biggest artist of all time and tbh, when it comes to stats and figures, the raw data, I could very well see that coming to fruition for her, doubters be damned and haters left seething. Crazy, CRAZY to think about though.
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August
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Post by August on Aug 13, 2024 12:31:31 GMT -5
The release and promotion of the singles off this album has been a bit different compared to the rest of her career. I kinda feel like she dropped the album and then continued on her merry way with the tour over in Europe. The album continues to run at #1 after 14 weeks. But there hasn't been the big boom and frenzy around the singles in terms of media attention etc. The first single debuted at #1 and then fell down the chart. Simultaneously, the second single ICDIWABH debuted / peaked at #3 way back in early May. It was then officially released as a single in early July, but hasn't really rebounded and is sitting at #35. Now I am seeing the buzz around the song August which is an older track. I wonder if her team is done releasing singles from the current album? These days they are usually quick to release singles the second the prior one peaks, which is not what is happening here. I mean it is pretty amazing the album is selling like crazy without a current song saturating radio / streaming.
I like her music, but I am not a Swiftie and it is difficult to keep track if something is a single and what is not. Her fans are so dedicated that they basically send every single song on the album to the Hot 100 the first week. At this point, every single song she has recorded has felt like it has charted. This is also partially driven by Billboard magazine's chart rules and how streaming now impacts the charts.
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daddy
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Post by daddy on Aug 13, 2024 12:37:46 GMT -5
The release and promotion of the singles off this album has been a bit different compared to the rest of her career. I kinda feel like she dropped the album and then continued on her merry way with the tour over in Europe. The album continues to run at #1 after 14 weeks. But there hasn't been the big boom and frenzy around the singles in terms of media attention etc. The first single debuted at #1 and then fell down the chart. Simultaneously, the second single ICDIWABH debuted / peaked at #3 way back in early May. It was then officially released as a single in early July, but hasn't really rebounded and is sitting at #35. Now I am seeing the buzz around the song August which is an older track. I wonder if her team is done releasing singles from the current album? These days they are usually quick to release singles the second the prior one peaks, which is not what is happening here. I mean it is pretty amazing the album is selling like crazy without a current song saturating radio / streaming. I like her music, but I am not a Swiftie and it is difficult to keep track if something is a single and what is not. Her fans are so dedicated that they basically send every single song on the album to the Hot 100 the first week. At this point, every single song she has recorded has felt like it has charted. This is also partially driven by Billboard magazine's chart rules and how streaming now impacts the charts. I don't get the impression that she doesn't care too much about singles, and is more focused on being an album artist.
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August
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Post by August on Aug 13, 2024 13:25:19 GMT -5
The release and promotion of the singles off this album has been a bit different compared to the rest of her career. I kinda feel like she dropped the album and then continued on her merry way with the tour over in Europe. The album continues to run at #1 after 14 weeks. But there hasn't been the big boom and frenzy around the singles in terms of media attention etc. The first single debuted at #1 and then fell down the chart. Simultaneously, the second single ICDIWABH debuted / peaked at #3 way back in early May. It was then officially released as a single in early July, but hasn't really rebounded and is sitting at #35. Now I am seeing the buzz around the song August which is an older track. I wonder if her team is done releasing singles from the current album? These days they are usually quick to release singles the second the prior one peaks, which is not what is happening here. I mean it is pretty amazing the album is selling like crazy without a current song saturating radio / streaming. I like her music, but I am not a Swiftie and it is difficult to keep track if something is a single and what is not. Her fans are so dedicated that they basically send every single song on the album to the Hot 100 the first week. At this point, every single song she has recorded has felt like it has charted. This is also partially driven by Billboard magazine's chart rules and how streaming now impacts the charts. I don't get the impression that she doesn't care too much about singles, and is more focused on being an album artist. yes, that is what seems to be different this time around. She was very singles focused in the past.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 13, 2024 13:27:56 GMT -5
I think she has just realized that it is more effective to sell 50k album downloads more every week than try to keep the fans buying individual singles. #1 album always creates headlines, a ten-place climb on Hot 100 does not.
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Post by livelikedying111 on Aug 14, 2024 12:16:00 GMT -5
My dislike for this album had been very firm until I saw her live, performing some of the songs. In the last few days some songs sneaked into my YouTube playlist and I have to say that So Long, London is one of her best songs. So sad and moving, it almost put me to tears at work. I think better promotion or a different tracklist could have made things easier (mostly on the ears) and made her sell even more. Because at first, I couldn't go through listening to the album and now things are looking better.
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schnetzka
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Post by schnetzka on Aug 14, 2024 13:18:00 GMT -5
Still don't understand how a 31-track album only has one music video. I know she's been busy touring but that hasn't stopped her from making music videos before.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Aug 14, 2024 14:19:35 GMT -5
I think she has just realized that it is more effective to sell 50k album downloads more every week than try to keep the fans buying individual singles. #1 album always creates headlines, a ten-place climb on Hot 100 does not. A friends said to my "an average person on the street probably can't name three Taylor Swift songs." I think she should focus on hits a bit more as it's the thing that will ultimately keep up her legacy, because I definitely see what my friends is saying.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 14, 2024 14:51:02 GMT -5
I think she has just realized that it is more effective to sell 50k album downloads more every week than try to keep the fans buying individual singles. #1 album always creates headlines, a ten-place climb on Hot 100 does not. A friends said to my "an average person on the street probably can't name three Taylor Swift songs." I think she should focus on hits a bit more as it's the thing that will ultimately keep up her legacy, because I definitely see what my friends is saying. This is an exquisite prime example of why anecdotal stories aren't real evidence. lol Taylor has like 36 top 5 hits and what, 10 #1s? She has more top 5 hits than any other artist in history. Her career could decline now permanently without another additional hit to her name and her legacy is already cemented from the near 20 year span of her career. These kinds of comments really remind me how much people underestimate her impact and status (despite all evidence being literally everywhere to the contrary) continuously for whatever reason. I am sure most who actually listen to music could name a few Taylor songs. It's like you just totally blanked on the fact she literally just had the two biggest hits of her career.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Aug 14, 2024 14:52:52 GMT -5
I think she has just realized that it is more effective to sell 50k album downloads more every week than try to keep the fans buying individual singles. #1 album always creates headlines, a ten-place climb on Hot 100 does not. A friends said to my "an average person on the street probably can't name three Taylor Swift songs." I think she should focus on hits a bit more as it's the thing that will ultimately keep up her legacy, because I definitely see what my friends is saying. I don't see how that's a measure of anything meaningful. Most people who aren't plugged in to music would struggle to name three songs by any artist they aren't familiar with. The same could be said about Beyonce, Madonna, Mariah, Britney, Led Zeppelin, Fleetwood Mac, probably even Michael Jackson. The only exception to this weirdly high and arbitrary bar of "familiary" or "success" I can think of is probably The Beatles.
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gbaby
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Post by gbaby on Aug 14, 2024 15:12:09 GMT -5
A friends said to my "an average person on the street probably can't name three Taylor Swift songs." I think she should focus on hits a bit more as it's the thing that will ultimately keep up her legacy, because I definitely see what my friends is saying. This is an exquisite prime example of why anecdotal stories aren't real evidence. lol Taylor has like 36 top 5 hits and what, 10 #1s? She has more top 5 hits than any other artist in history. Her career could decline now permanently without another additional hit to her name and her legacy is already cemented from the near 20 year span of her career. These kinds of comments really remind me how much people underestimate her impact and status (despite all evidence being literally everywhere to the contrary) continuously for whatever reason. I am sure most who actually listen to music could name a few Taylor songs. It's like you just totally blanked on the fact she literally just had the two biggest hits of her career. Well said! I laughed at the idea that Taylor doesn't have enough recognizable hits given her catalogue. Irice22, have your friends check out her wikipedia discography page. I'm sure multiple will stand out as recognizable.
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Acid Eyes
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Post by Acid Eyes on Aug 14, 2024 16:36:35 GMT -5
Yeah, even if you are die-hard TS hater, it's safe to say everyone who hasn't been living under a rock for 20 years is at least familiar with: - Cruel Summer
- Love Story
- You Belong with Me
- 22
- We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together
- I Knew You Were Trouble
- Style
- Blank Space
- Shake It Off
- Bad Blood
- Anti-Hero
and these are just the "big" hits.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Aug 14, 2024 17:12:53 GMT -5
A friends said to my "an average person on the street probably can't name three Taylor Swift songs." I think she should focus on hits a bit more as it's the thing that will ultimately keep up her legacy, because I definitely see what my friends is saying. This is an exquisite prime example of why anecdotal stories aren't real evidence. lol Taylor has like 36 top 5 hits and what, 10 #1s? She has more top 5 hits than any other artist in history. Her career could decline now permanently without another additional hit to her name and her legacy is already cemented from the near 20 year span of her career. These kinds of comments really remind me how much people underestimate her impact and status (despite all evidence being literally everywhere to the contrary) continuously for whatever reason. I am sure most who actually listen to music could name a few Taylor songs. It's like you just totally blanked on the fact she literally just had the two biggest hits of her career. Yeah, but peaks don't translate familiarity. For example, I bet people can name way more Britney songs than they can Mariah. It's something I think song association and familiarity is something Taylor struggles with. And of course, there's no data to measure that unless you polled all of America, so yes, it is just a feeling. Doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 14, 2024 19:02:52 GMT -5
Yeah, but peaks don't translate familiarity. For example, I bet people can name way more Britney songs than they can Mariah. It's something I think song association and familiarity is something Taylor struggles with. And of course, there's no data to measure that unless you polled all of America, so yes, it is just a feeling. Doesn't mean it's necessarily wrong. You're free to have your anecdotal opinion, just as I and the consensus of this thread thus far (and IMO the vast majority of most others) would disagree. You speaking as if she needs "more" hits to "maintain" or "keep up" her legacy is ridiculous in itself. As I said before her legacy is already cemented. She has already broken nearly every conceivable female record one could hope to in this day and age and has become the biggest touring artist in history essentially. Once you have reached a pinnacle of success where the industry and people are likening you to or mentioning you alongside the same breath as long-cemnted legends (like The Beatles etc in terms of popularity/success), your legacy is there. If we wanna be real, her only real contemporary or closest competitor is Beyonce and you would never make this statement about Beyonce. Or Mariah. Or Celine. Or any other huge artists who've already cemented their legacies despite not producing huge hit singles currently. A legacy is a legacy based on past achievement. Not current or future success. And this woman is nearly 2 decades into an unpresdented, record-shattering career and you're acting like she still has something to prove to someone. I could see if she were around Red, you saying this, but we're well past that and how you assume arguably the biggest artist of the last 20 years has more to prove to maintain her legacy is just wild to me, but do you I guess. lol Also, while a chart peak doesn't necessarily translate to "familiarity", multiple billion+ streamed singles absolutely do. 90 million collective album certifications do. But sure, tell me how "Cruel Summer" and "Anti-Hero" with 2.4 billion and 1.6 billion streams respectively aren't "well known". lol
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Marooned@Midnight
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Post by Marooned@Midnight on Aug 14, 2024 19:12:16 GMT -5
Vipers dressed in empath’s clothing. We don’t cater to them. Anyone claiming that Taylor still needs to do anything to cement her legacy is not arguing in good faith IMO. The legacy is signed, sealed, delivered, and actively being added to.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Aug 15, 2024 10:04:51 GMT -5
There's a reason I specifically brought up Led Zeppelin. Between studio albums, live albums, and compilations, they have sold about 110 million in the US alone. Yet, I'm sure most of the general public could only name "Stairway to Heaven" and maybe one or two more songs. Sure, the Boomers who bought all those albums in the 1970s could probably name more, but that's like no more than 1-2% of the US population back then and also now.
Taylor is well on her way to being in that kind of stratosphere even if the Big Machine certs never get updated again, but I'm sure in the end most of the general public will only be able to name a few songs, and there's nothing wrong with that. Over 90% of the US public is indifferent to music as anything more than something pleasant to have on in the car or the background and that's okay. It's the passionate teenagers and young adults who make the music industry go 'round and that's been true since The British Invasion + Motown of the 60s. If someone can connect beyond that, like The Beatles, MJ, Madonna, Mariah, Celine, and Taylor Swift have, then that's just icing on the cake.
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Post by balletgirlmom on Aug 15, 2024 13:04:32 GMT -5
Acid Eyes, thank you for the posted video from You Tube with Swiftologist. I learned a lot! Swiftologist is brilliant and such an authoritative figure. So much research went into that post. Facts and figures and data and rules and history. Swiftologist got it all! So true, she is building her legacy, and the numbers do speak for themselves. When I look at the Billboard Top 200, seeing Taylor have 10-11 albums charting week after week is breathtaking. Nobody out there is charting nearly their entire back catalog at once... and weekly! So, thanks Acid Eyes for posting the Swiftologist YT post and thank you Swiftologist for all your hard work and passionate work. I bet Taylor has seen that You Tube post and if so, I bet she smiled. I sure did!
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Post by adamalterlago on Aug 15, 2024 17:03:47 GMT -5
Are we ever getting The Anthology on vinyl? Maybe Xmas 2024?
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schnetzka
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Post by schnetzka on Aug 15, 2024 17:16:39 GMT -5
Are we ever getting The Anthology on vinyl? Maybe Xmas 2024? Let's get it on CD before anything else lol.
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ampersand
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Post by ampersand on Aug 15, 2024 22:31:47 GMT -5
I found out my estranged father is dying from cancer this week, and “my tears ricochet” (long pond sessions obvs) has been hitting so hard. I dunk on Taylor sometimes, but she can really write a remarkable lyric. That song perfectly encapsulates the anger, overwhelm, and sadness I’m feeling right now.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Aug 15, 2024 23:14:17 GMT -5
Anyone claiming that Taylor still needs to do anything to cement her legacy is not arguing in good faith IMO. The legacy is signed, sealed, delivered, and actively being added to. The problem is she still seems to think that. Why the constant special editions? I just don't think it's the right route to take if she really feels the need to prove more.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 15, 2024 23:37:44 GMT -5
Anyone claiming that Taylor still needs to do anything to cement her legacy is not arguing in good faith IMO. The legacy is signed, sealed, delivered, and actively being added to. The problem is she still seems to think that. Why the constant special editions? I just don't think it's the right route to take if she really feels the need to prove more. That's one hell of a reach. First it was she lacked known hits. Now it's because she's releasing variants. lol It's obvious she's going for as many weeks at #1 as possible because, why not? She's likely trying to target and outdo Wallen's 20 weeks. Why shouldn't she try to pad her total weeks at #1 on the albums chart and her longest-running #1 album while she is fully capable of doing so and doing so effortlessly at that? I don't think maximizing success at the peak of your career says you're afraid your legacy isn't cemented. I'd say it's ambitious, strategic, and understandable. People underestimate this woman's long-term goal/plans. She's likely aiming to be the biggest artist of all time so every little extra accomplishment, week at #1 she can achieve only adds to that. She doesn't need to lift a finger further to cement her status or legacy. She desires to do so out of ambition, drive, and determination for her end goal. I understand why people think the variants are unnecessary and tired, but they in no way have or will effect her already cemented legacy. On an unrelated note: I really want Taylor to have at least one more huge ballad. She only has like 2-3 what I would consider "big" ballad hits in her career: "All Too Well", "Lover" (I say "Lover" because it's likely gonna hit 2 billion streams), and subjectively maybee "Teardrops On My Guitar". She writes them so well, I just want her to have one "Someone Like You" or "Hello" moment.
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irice22
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Post by irice22 on Aug 16, 2024 0:09:07 GMT -5
That unrelated note is exactly related to what I think she should focus on.
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Dylan :)
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Post by Dylan :) on Aug 16, 2024 1:19:15 GMT -5
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zdm1998
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Post by zdm1998 on Aug 16, 2024 9:24:58 GMT -5
I could never really get into this album. Tbh I kinda wish she would've lived in the Midnights era a little longer and gave us a few more singles, because that was much more in line with what I love from her.
Really just ready for Rep TV.
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Eloqueen™
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Post by Eloqueen™ on Aug 16, 2024 14:33:51 GMT -5
I just find Midnights to be in the bottom tier of her discography (plucking out "Anti-Hero", "Maroon" and a few deluxe tracks that absolutely should've made the standard) making its AOTY win even more of a head-scratcher for me personally (in terms of quality). She knows she needs a departure in sound for TS12 and I think there's no way we get another continuation of 80s soft pop. I am genuinely so curious to see where she goes, but melodically, I wouldn't mind some good ole catchy bangers for a switch up!
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Rhythm Nation
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Post by Rhythm Nation on Aug 16, 2024 15:43:40 GMT -5
I love ttpd but it’s overly wordy in places, which makes me long for a sparse dance record next, full of bangers like tiwycf!
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thezatch
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Post by thezatch on Aug 16, 2024 16:16:52 GMT -5
I’d totally be here for a full-blown dance record too. The floodgates would open for new collaborations. Get her writing with Tove Lo and SG Lewis, for example.
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Taylor.
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Post by Taylor. on Aug 16, 2024 17:23:39 GMT -5
someone had predicted midnights would be 'cocaine pop' and i'm still praying she delivers something in that lane eventually lol
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