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Post by tidetoit on Jul 15, 2004 20:00:53 GMT -5
Hillary, Ashlee, Hayley, Mandy, now Lindsay Lohan, and soon Paris Hilton will all be labeled "Pop Stars". Are they really? Can they really sing? How would they fare if they had to compete on American Idol? How many would have recording contracts if they weren't already famous or related to someone rich and famous. Are they *cough* artists? Do they deserve to be called "Pop Stars"?
My answers: No they are not Pop Stars. They are almost complete frauds. A few can carry a tune but there are 20 girls in every high school in America who can outsing them all. None of them would make it thru the preliminary rounds of American Idol. Without their fame none of these girls would have ever gotten a single song much less an album recorded and a recording contract. Artists? They don't deserve to even be called singers. Calling them artists is an insult to every artist who ever lived. How would you like to be stuck in a world where the only music you ever heard was Ashlee Simpson? Mankind would devour itself and cease to exist. The same is true of all these very, very, lucky little girls. The advent of computer enhancement--Protooling--has made it possible to make horrible singers sound good. Hollywood has capitalized on young TV and Movie stars with large fanbases by engineering their music success through the fraud of computer enhancement. Without it none of these girls could succeed as singers because they can't sing.
Wanna hear some good singers? Listen to their backup singers. They can sing.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 15, 2004 20:42:34 GMT -5
1st of all the term "pop star" was not given to the worlds best singers. Not now or not ever. a pop star is simply some1 who is popular at the moment. I believe the only phrase which was given to describe a good female singer is "diva" no "pop star."
2nd of all variety is the spice of life. Just because do not like Ashlee Simpson, Lindsy Lohan or whoever else you mentioned doesnt mean that there is anything wrong with it, and it doesnt mean that no1 else likes it. It just doesnt suit your ears so dont knock it just because its not for u.
3rd of all I dont recall anyone giving you the authority to say who or what is an artist. An opinion is an opinion its not fact. if you dont think they are artists then its fine but it doesnt make it truth or law.
I personally could care less but it so irratating to see some1 hate on people because they are doing their thing. So what if they got record deals because they are popular...would they be the first? NO. Paula Abdul got her deal because she became famous after choreographing for Janet. Janet got her deal becaue of her last name but had to work hard to get where she got. Jennifer Lopez got her deal after making it big as well. These new young, blonde teens are not the first and they certianly wont be the last.
It may be easy to get a deal after becoming well known, but it isnt easy to have long jevity in the business and have success once u get deal. Thats where the hard work comes in. Because if people dont like u, then u will flop they way Jamie Lynn Singler did from the "sopranos" or Jennifer Love Hewitt.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 15, 2004 20:54:38 GMT -5
what I'm saying is that with the technology available today more frauds like the Ashlees of the world will frustrate the legitimate pursuit of music by the real artists because the odds of success decrease so greatly. Many of the greatest pop singers of all time would have been overlooked if todays technology was around 50 years ago. The price we'll pay is we will be much poorer artisticly and many great talents will give up on their passion for practical reasons.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 15, 2004 21:04:48 GMT -5
I cant think of any real pop stars that are great singers. The best pop entertainers...are just that. they entertain they arent known for being outstanding singers. Every pop act I know has technology influences in their vocals. But that doesnt mean they dont want to make good music just because they cant sing as well as Mariah Carey or Celine Dion. Sometimes u need a little help in certain areas. so what.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 15, 2004 21:15:55 GMT -5
So what?
Lisa Marie Presley and Milli Vanilli and Ashlee, Hillary, Hayley, Jlo, Lindsay, annnnnnnnnnd Paris
Amy Lee, Adam Lavigne, Kelly Clarkson, Rob Thomas and all the other people who can really sing without being computer tuned can hold their own in the arena of real artists. I won't live long enough to ever hear Britney sing "Everytime" live because the song as we know it only exists in cyber world. At some point I believe technological enhancement will be banned from commercial competition with unenhanced artists music. That will change the music world for the better.
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KikiMets
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Post by KikiMets on Jul 15, 2004 21:21:18 GMT -5
I won't live long enough to ever hear Britney sing "Everytime" live because the song as we know it only exists in cyber world. I guess you didn't catch the Showtime special. She did it live, and it did not sound pretty. Personally, I find it sad that technology is propping up people who can't sing. There's a place for entertainers, but I prefer that singers can actually, y'know, sing :o.
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Post by Matt4319 on Jul 15, 2004 21:33:15 GMT -5
Mandy Moore doesn't belong in this group at all.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 15, 2004 21:44:08 GMT -5
So what? Britney sing "Everytime" live because the song as we know it only exists in cyber world.Β At some point I believe technological enhancement will be banned from commercial competition with unenhanced artists music.Β That will change the music world for the better. LOL shut up. she sang "everytime" live everytime she sang it.Β Guess u didnt watch SNL or her live special on Showtime.Β Stop talking please.Β If u dont like it dont listen. u cant change anything in music so listen whatever it is that YOU like and stop hating on people who are living out their dreams and doing whatever they want to do.Β If u dont like it dont listen. Last time i checked record companies were not putting guns to peoples heads and making them listen to teen pop. no1 is forcing you to listen to "pieces of me" end of discussion.Β
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KikiMets
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Post by KikiMets on Jul 15, 2004 21:48:28 GMT -5
stop hating on people who are living out their dreams and doing whatever they want to do. I didn't realize the music industry was some sort of charity organization that let people live out their dreams of being singers whether or not they have any actual singing ability
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Post by bluenote on Jul 15, 2004 21:52:27 GMT -5
I didn't realize the music industry was some sort of charity organization that let people live out their dreams of being singers whether or not they have any actual singing ability wow! :o where were you when J.LO got her record deal?
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Post by pkwi on Jul 16, 2004 7:25:01 GMT -5
Why was Mandy mentioned? She's strived harder to make new and creative music while keeping her morals, she's on a higher level than the others you mentioned.
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Post by Pink Champagne Ricochet on Jul 16, 2004 7:33:33 GMT -5
Mandy Moore's voice used to be really bad and nasally, but she's actually worked on it and actually sounds good now. Unlike someone like Britney Spears, who probably sounds worse now than she did on her debut album.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 16, 2004 7:58:27 GMT -5
BlueNote says "LOL shut up. she sang "everytime" live everytime she sang it."
I stand corrected. I went and downloaded 2 of those "live" performances and winced in anguish at the torturous sounds of the "real" Britney that didn't even resemble the Protooled song you hear on the radio. Thank you for proving my point. At least Britney knows she can't sing as evidenced by the cancellation of her tour by a knee injury. The others are deluding themselves.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 16, 2004 8:35:47 GMT -5
here is a simple soluion...if u dont like it why do u pay attention to it? Like i said no1 has made you take time out to listen to anything. I guess you have nothin better to do then to listen to music u claim you do not like and hate on them. u are sad.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 16, 2004 9:03:07 GMT -5
Hey Blue- I like your arguments, respect your defense of what you like, and understand your position on "Pop" music. What you are not conceeding is that the technology available today is freezing out many far more creative deserving artists. There can only be 100 songs on the Hot 100--if 8 or 10 are taken up by the goop Ashlee and Hayley and pals represent that means many great songs and artists are never heard and the effort to create them is stifled....and that is a relatively new phenomenon.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 16, 2004 10:09:27 GMT -5
I do not like the majority of the songs in the Hot 100 nor do i like the majority of the new blonde teen stars, nor do i like the way the industry is made up right now but...oh well.Β I cant do anything about it besides listen to the music I do like.Β Not everyone is going to be pleased with who is successful, thats why there are so many undergroud acts and bands. there are plenty of alternatives to the new breed of pop stars...you dont have to listen to them.
if the music you like isnt exactly topping the charts it shouldnt really matter because not everyone is supposed to be that successful, the inudtry wasnt designed for everyone to be a Britney or Madonna, but if you like the music you should like it no mater if its #1 or #100. I learned that recently with Janet. As long as I appreciate the music and enjoy it...who cares what number the song charts or how popular they are. If the music connects with you it doesnt need to connect with millions of others ;)
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KikiMets
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Post by KikiMets on Jul 16, 2004 12:54:53 GMT -5
As long as I appreciate the music and enjoy it...who cares what number the song charts or how popular they are. If the music connects with you it doesnt need to connect with millions of others ;) WORD. While it's nice to turn on the radio and hear songs by artists you like rather than those you can't stand (I still smile when I hear Always Be My Baby on Z100 ), as long as the artists I like have enough success that they can keep creating new music for me to hear and I can see them on tour, I'm happy. Still, on the other hand, there's always that part of you that wants the artists you like to be the ones atop the charts.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Jul 16, 2004 13:37:47 GMT -5
"Good" singing is overrated. If the only type of singing you consider to be "good" are the type of singers that Kelly Clarkson, Celine Dion and Mariah Carey are then you know nothing about music. Those types of singers are ONE kind of singers. There are others out there that don't scream but use the voices in other ways to protray the music that they sing. Folk singers have a certain style that Mariah and Kelly could only dream of having if they wanted it. Then there are country singers. Rock singers are in a whole different level of their own. The type of singing that Mariah and Celine and Christina and Kelly and whoever else is in their grouping do is ONE kind of singing and they AREN'T the ONLY good singers in music. Put down your Kelly CD and go out and find something with alittle more emotion and feeling into it and then you'll understand what I'm saying.
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Post by Love Plastic Love on Jul 16, 2004 13:43:03 GMT -5
"Good" singing is overrated. If the only type of singing you consider to be "good" are the type of singers that Kelly Clarkson, Celine Dion and Mariah Carey are then you know nothing about music. Those types of singers are ONE kind of singers. There are others out there that don't scream but use the voices in other ways to protray the music that they sing. Folk singers have a certain style that Mariah and Kelly could only dream of having if they wanted it. Then there are country singers. Rock singers are in a whole different level of their own. The type of singing that Mariah and Celine and Christina and Kelly and whoever else is in their grouping do is ONE kind of singing and they AREN'T the ONLY good singers in music. Put down your Kelly CD and go out and find something with alittle more emotion and feeling into it and then you'll understand what I'm saying. I agreed until the VERY last comment. Just because you do have a voice like Kelly and Celine does not mean you dont have emotion and feeling. I happen to think Kelly has a passionate voice.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 16, 2004 14:01:12 GMT -5
Remove Kelly Clarkson from the equation completely. Adam Lavigne, Celine, Mariah, Sting-and their ilk can all sing without the aid of a computer. They have god given talent that dererves to be showcased for its ability to stir emotion. The new breed of "Computer Made POP Stars" are the targt of my rant. They are frauds who inhibit legitimate creative efforts from mass exposure and thats was not the case 25 until the last decade or so.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 16, 2004 15:04:34 GMT -5
"Good" singing is overrated. If the only type of singing you consider to be "good" are the type of singers that Kelly Clarkson, Celine Dion and Mariah Carey are then you know nothing about music. Those types of singers are ONE kind of singers. There are others out there that don't scream but use the voices in other ways to protray the music that they sing. Folk singers have a certain style that Mariah and Kelly could only dream of having if they wanted it. Then there are country singers. Rock singers are in a whole different level of their own. The type of singing that Mariah and Celine and Christina and Kelly and whoever else is in their grouping do is ONE kind of singing and they AREN'T the ONLY good singers in music. Put down your Kelly CD and go out and find something with alittle more emotion and feeling into it and then you'll understand what I'm saying. I agree 100% Remove Kelly Clarkson from the equation completely.Β Adam Lavigne, Celine, Mariah, Sting-and their ilk can all sing without the aid of a computer.Β They have god given talent that dererves to be showcased for its ability to stir emotion.Β The new breed of "Computer Made POP Stars" are the targt of my rant.Β They are frauds who inhibit legitimate creative efforts from mass exposure and thats was not the case 25 until the last decade or so. Who cares, dont listen.Β Everyone shouldnt sing like Mariah or Celine its called VARIETY and its the spice of life!Β Bad singers didnt start with new pop stars now and it wont end with them. get over it and move on. I dont know who made your opinion the correct one for who can and who can not sing.....I must have missed the memo.
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KikiMets
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Post by KikiMets on Jul 16, 2004 15:14:57 GMT -5
The "if you don't like it, nobody's forcing you to listen" argument is a bit difficult to swallow considering that it's nearly impossible to listen to the radio for any length of time without hearing a song by an artist you don't like, no matter what format you're listening to. I shouldn't feel as though I have to stop listening to a station that plays many songs I like because it also plays songs that make me want to rip my ears off. I agree that variety is the spice of life and that there are many types of good singing, but it almost seems at times that some of the "hot people" are being rewarded for their inability to stay in tune.
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 16, 2004 16:28:26 GMT -5
Hey Blue- My last attempt at this.
When a "singer" has to have a computer assist them in reaching a note or tone they are not capable of reaching with their own voice the result is a misrepresentation of that persons ability. If this was limited to occassional special effects I would not be arguing against it. The computer sotware that actually tunes and tones the voices of the talentless "Pop Stars" so prevalent over the last few years should get equal billing on their songs because it is the real performer on the songs.
I heard Patsy Clines "Crazy" the other night on a country station--when I changed stations I heard Ashlee Simpsons "Pieces of Me" and a shockwave of disgust swept over me. How many Patsy Clines will be dismissed, overlooked, or simply give up their dream because of the magic buttons on Protool software that makes talent a minimal requirement for success in the music business.
The problem is real and being discussed and debated at all levels of the industry but the decline in sales has stymied any action out of fear it will further lower sales. My opinion is that the public would like to know the truth--who is and is not a fraud and would like to hear real artists create real music from real human voices without the computer duet.
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Post by bluenote on Jul 16, 2004 16:37:55 GMT -5
If u dont like it....DONT LISTEN Thank God for Cds!!!!
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Post by pkwi on Jul 16, 2004 18:34:11 GMT -5
Agreed, although, it can be easy at times to be able to decipher when someone is lip synching, on account of the fact that they can sound exactly like their album or too perfect. Like everyone can tell that most of the time Gwen Stefani sings live for example, her voice sounds deeper live as opposed to the more soft sounding croon on a ND album.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2004 18:36:55 GMT -5
Madonna
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Post by pkwi on Jul 16, 2004 18:41:22 GMT -5
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Post by bluenote on Jul 16, 2004 19:53:50 GMT -5
madonna deserves the title of a pop star. I will Add: Janet Britney Christina A. Beyonce
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Post by tidetoit on Jul 16, 2004 21:01:53 GMT -5
Heres another list:
Pat Benatar Linda Ronstadt Dionne Warwick Ann Wilson Karen Carpenter Tina Turner Bonnie Raitt Aretha Franklin Emmylou Harris Patti Labelle
Computer voice enhancement would have probably forced some of these artists to give up on music and their contributions would never have been made.
Its happening now. Can't you hear it?
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Post by sorealboy on Jul 17, 2004 9:02:14 GMT -5
Mandy doesn't belong there.
Do you people realize that she has been around for 5 years already? She has had a much fuller career (and more solid fanbase, check out her mb most people have been posting there since 1999) than the others.
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