Which stations should change formats & to what?

[roadrunner]

I can't believe how some stations hold on to their format
when they desperately need to change. Low ratings, three of the same format in the same city, missing formats ---why don't they change? Why are they so stubborn and hold onto something that hardly anyone wants? I just want smack some of these stations upside the head and scream in their faces, "what is your problem???!!!" :o

Birmingham's 97.3 Country station should go "Jack", 102.7 in New York could go alternative, Atlanta's 97.1 WFOX --maybe hot ac or Jack. Anyone else?

[EvanJ]

I'd like Inifinity to change San Francisco Hot AC KLLC to CHR-Pop. If they made that change, some of the current Hot AC listeners would stay with the new CHR-Pop station, go to sister AC station KBAY, or go to sister Hot AC station KEZR San Jose. The new station would hoepfully attract listeners from Clear Channel CHR-Rhythmic station KMEL and KYLD.

[tico]

Sometimes, a station may have low ratings, but could be making money, so it may not be justified to change. A lot of sports and news/talk stations are like that. With that said, Cox is so slow to change things, and when they do, they screw up. I don't know why they felt another country station was needed in Birmingham when they already own two there (WZZK-FM/AM). They wanted WFOX to be urban to stave off WVEE from WSB-AM, which is the #1 rated station in Atlanta. I doubt they're making money off either of those stations.

In Jackson, I wish one of the gospel stations would change. We have WHLH, the WOAD-FM/AM simulcast and WZRX-AM. WHLH and WZRX are both owned by Clear Channel. CC took over control of WZRX from another company that leased it and re-signed it on as gospel. I don't know why because WZRX took a beating when WHLH signed on and WOAD went FM.

[bamafan2102]

Birmingham desperatly need an Alternative station. Get rid of 102.5 The Bull or WZZK or the new one (which I haven't heard yet) and get an Alternative station!!!

[tico]

^^
I guess you're not a fan of 100.5 the X, eh? Do they even reach Gadsden? The last time I was in the Birmingham area, 100.5 got scratchy along the 459. I know they have a permit to move closer to Birmingham, but I don't know if it does anything for Gadsden.

[allow that]

New York DESPERATELY needs an Alternative station. K-Rock really isn't one.

New York could also use a Currents-Based Hot AC station, because all PLJ plays is the same 5 songs for 8 months at a time with a bunch of 80s crap.

[Marv]

EvanJ---DO you REALLY think it would make sense for anybody to launch a CHR/Pop station in San Francisco, after the demise of KZQZ?

As long as CHR/Pop continues to be targeted at the same 12-24 audience that CHR/Rhythmic stations are, why flip? It's been several years since ANY CHR/Pop station has been launched successfully; the last one to do so, as you pointed out on another thread was KHTS in San Diego in 1996.

Furthermore, KMEL and (to a lesser extent) KYLD are VERY solidly entrenched in the Bay area among the 25-and-under listeners up there.

[roadrunner]

Birmingham used to have some of the best radio stations, especially back in the 80's. WMJJ was Hot AC (even though Hot AC probably didn't exist back then) but they were always competitive with top 40's I-95 (now WYSF, blah AC music) and Kix-106 (now 80's 106.9 The Point). And I can't understand why they moved The X from 107.7 to 100.5. Their ratings have sunk to almost the bottom. WNCB needs to trash their country station. Jack has been a Godsend to Nashville-they ought to at least try switching to that format.

[EvanJ]

marv said:

EvanJ---DO you REALLY think it would make sense for anybody to launch a CHR/Pop station in San Francisco, after the demise of KZQZ?

I doubt San Francisco will get CHR-Pop but KLLC currently has less than a 2.0 rating with two major formats (CHR-Pop and Country) not having local stations there, not to mention KLLC is behind Clear Channel's KIOI.
As for there being no successful new CHR-Pop stations recently, KQCH Omaha which had a CHR-Pop playlist while it was CHR-Rhythmic has been changed to CHR-Pop in the ratings and is Number 1 in the market.

[Slinky]

From my neck of the woods:

Baltimore could use a CHR. Infinity owns a Jack-FM and an 80's-based Hot AC. There's no reason for both of them to exist and CHR was a 4-5 share format when it was last in Baltimore. WWMX or WQSR should fill this hole.

Fredericksburg could use a CHR. There's a struggling Country and Alternative station, while the Hot AC is getting a 7-share, and even the out-of-market CHR, which doesn't have a great signal, is getting a 2-share. WYSK or WGRX should fill this hole. There are other options for Alternative (WWDC and WRXL) and Country (#1 WFLS and WMZQ) that have decent signals in the market.

DC could use a AAA. There are two NPR stations here that run many of the same programs. WAMU should flip to non-commercial AAA.

[The Music Man]

marv said:

It's been several years since ANY CHR/Pop station has been launched successfully.

That, my friends, is a CROCK OF ISH.

Look, bro, I'm sorry that you think the CHR format sucks because there is a lot of rhythmic material on it. Why don't you go buy an iPod, listen to your Frank Sinatra into T.I. into Celine Dion into The Killers, call it, and enjoy. You'll probably be the only one.

Want to see a few successful CHR stations that have launched in the last 10 years, since that's how long you think it's been since one came around?? BTW, keep in mind that a "successful launch" these days does NOT equate to topping the 12+ ratings. That's not likely in almost any format. Here ya are!

WXSS Milwaukee, Wisconsin (103.7 KissFM)
WAEV Savannah, Georgia (97-3 KissFM)
WIHT Washington, DC (Hot 99-5)
KSLZ St. Louis, Missouri (Z107-7)
WAKS Cleveland, Ohio (96-5 KissFM)
WKFS Cincinnati, Ohio (Kiss 107 FM)
KZHT Salt Lake City, Utah (97-1 ZHT)

I do not know the launch dates of a lot of these stations. But if anyone would like to add to this list, you are welcome!

Seriously, I'm not trying to slam anyone. I totally respect your opinions. But all you have to say is that the CHR format sucks, the ratings are down, doom for CHR... Yes, Mainstream has become more rhythmic-friendly and competitive with those stations. But that's obviously what the current audience of the format wants. And there are VERY few stations with the ratings that the big stations got many years ago, and few markets with 10-share stations.

[mst3k]

Infinity needs to change one of their two Country stations here in Tampa Bay (and they may end up doing so eventually, with Clear Channel recently launching a Country outlet of their own). I'm hoping for a Hot AC/AAA, along the lines of the fondly remembered (by me, anyway) Star 95.7 (Mix 100.7 is billed Hot AC, but they lean too AC for my tastes).

[botoxic]

marv said:

DO you REALLY think it would make sense for anybody to launch a CHR/Pop station in San Francisco, after the demise of KZQZ?

Furthermore, KMEL and (to a lesser extent) KYLD are VERY solidly entrenched in the Bay area among the 25-and-under listeners up there.

If I remember correctly, Z95.7 consistently scored in the 2.5 to 3.0 share range, ratings that easily put many current FM stations in the Bay Area to shame. But Bonneville and top 40 don't mix very well, and Z was watered down until it became a pale imitation of its former self. But since Z95.7 flipped, no format has performed as well on that frequency.

I agree that given the severe overlap that has occurred between top 40 and rhythmic over the past few years, it would be very difficult for a new top 40 to go up against Wild, and to some extent, KMEL. However, now that top 40 seems to be finding its own way (and niche) again, now would be as good a time as any since the demise of Z to launch a true top 40 station in the Bay Area.

[Slinky]

botoxic said:

But Bonneville and top 40 don't mix very well, and Z was watered down until it became a pale imitation of its former self.

Amen to that. Same thing happened with Bonneville-owned Z104 in DC. The station was diluted until it became almost a Hot AC, and then did an outright flip to that format. They sound good as a Hot AC now, but they could have done so much more with the CHR format if Bonneville had allowed them. When Z104 signed on, it was one of the best sounding CHRs in the country and was a consistent top 10 player.

It took Hot 99.5 years to achieve what Z104 did in one book. It's a shame the Z's weren't owned by a more forward-thinking company.

[EvanJ]

mst3k1 said:

Infinity needs to change one of their two Country stations here in Tampa Bay (and they may end up doing so eventually, with Clear Channel recently launching a Country outlet of their own). I'm hoping for a Hot AC/AAA, along the lines of the fondly remembered (by me, anyway) Star 95.7 (Mix 100.7 is billed Hot AC, but they lean too AC for my tastes).

As for the Infinity Country stations, WQYK is second so they won't go anywhere. WYUU got passed by new Clear Channel station WFUS so WYUU is the one that would change if either of them do.
The ratings call WMTX AC.

[tico]

roadrunner said:

And I can't understand why they moved The X from 107.7 to 100.5. Their ratings have sunk to almost the bottom.  WNCB needs to trash their country station. Jack has been a Godsend to Nashville-they ought to at least try switching to that format.

Citadel bought what used to be Z100.5 after buying other Apex properties in the Birmingham/Tuscaloosa area. Since Citadel already owned 107-7 the X, it didn't make since for them to have two alternative stations. I believe the move was made to 100.5 so Citadel could bring urban on 107.7, which used to be the home of the legendary R&B station WENN until the late 90s.

This is the third frequency WRAX has been on in less than ten years. They started out on 105.9, then moved to 107.7 and now it's on 100.5.

As for Jack in Birmingham, I believe WBPT will do it once the 80s format runs its course. I don't see it being around too much longer. Had WNCB gone Jack, that would've cannibalized WBPT's numbers, since Jack plays a huge amount of 80s. That's why Infinity chose to flip WCBS-FM rather than WNEW to Jack because Jack on WNEW would've been too close musically with CBS-FM.

Another station I think should change is KSTE New Orleans. They actually do better in the ratings in Baton Rouge than in New Orleans, but it's behind both WFMF and WEMX in the Red Stick, as well as CHR WEZB and KSTE's sister urban WQUE in the Big Easy.

[Marv]

Even in a city such as Los Angeles, a station with a 2.0 rating can still make LOTS of money, so flipping for the sake of flipping may or may not be the answer.

Flipping into a format with strong ratings and/or well-heeled listeners means considering three formats--news/talk, country & smooth jazz.

News-talk is a VERY expensive format to run properly, so CC & Infinity aren't going to spend THAT kind of money, given what both companies have done to the quality of radio over the past decade.

The problem is that these big conglomerates such as Clear Channel have made boosting their stock price their #1 priority, as opposed to pleasing their listeners, and the results have been very disastrous. The industry is smothered and micro-managed to death, and most PDs simply don't have the guts to do anything revolutionary.

Syndication and voice-tracking are cost-cutting moves, and NO way to create compelling radio.

[johnm1120]

I could see WFLC Miami changing to a Jack format. In fact, I'm surprised they haven't already.

[roadrunner]

I have this recurring dream that WLS-AM in Chicago drops news/talk and is playing music. Back in the 70's when I was in grade school, that's all I ever listened to! Maybe they could go oldies since WJMK flipped to Jack. I'm sure their ratings would drop to the bottom, but I'd listen (at night anyway--can't pick them up during the day).

[reception]

KIKI should drop their Rhythmic format in favor of Urban AC or smooth jazz perhaps. They are constantly the also-ran in the three-way Rhythmic battle in Honolulu, failing to reach the top 10 in the ratings, it seems.

[tico]

roadrunner said:

I have this recurring dream that WLS-AM in Chicago drops news/talk and is playing music. Back in the 70's when I was in grade school, that's all I ever listened to! Maybe they could go oldies since WJMK flipped to Jack. I'm sure their ratings would drop to the bottom, but I'd listen (at night anyway--can't pick them up during the day).

I remember when WLS used to play American Top 40, and so did Louisville's WHAS. I doubt WLS will go back to playing music soon. They probably make too much money with the talk formats. Plus, you're not gonna get young people to listen to AM radio and advertisers tend to shy away from older-demo formats such as nostalgia and real oldies.

[Marv]

Wasn't Z104 in DC's flip to Hot AC almost a certainty, given the fact that WPGC has had a lock on that city's 12-24 audience for ages?

CHR/Pop stations such as Z104 have really had only two choices when faced with strong competition from a CHR/Rhythmic station; either copy that station by loading up on rhythmic material and watch your ratings sink (KIIS-FM would be a great example after KPWR hit the air) or flip to Hot AC, even if you had a 10.0+ share as a killer CHR/Pop station, with WZPL in Indianapolis being the best example anywhere, especially in one of America's largest cities?

[[upsilon]™]

jerseyboy said:

New York DESPERATELY needs an Alternative station. K-Rock really isn't one.

Hell yes. Thr tri-state area needs an alternative station. Everytime I flip to K-Rock, I just flip back to KTU or Z100 out of frustration.

[drock89]

NYC has no country station, which is shocking...

[Slinky]

marv said:

Wasn't Z104 in DC's flip to Hot AC almost a certainty, given the fact that WPGC has had a lock on that city's 12-24 audience for ages?

No. Z104 debuted strongly as a Jerry Clifton-consulted dance-heavy CHR. They were a top 10 station, occasionally top 5, certainly the best the frequency has ever done. At some point though, probably because of Bonneville meddling, they decided to tweak and move more adult. Predictably, their ratings fell.

As an adult-based CHR, the ratings were still somewhat respectable though, around 10th or 11th on average. Then Clear Channel came in, saw the hole for a more rhythmic-based CHR, and flipped 99.5. Z104's ratings tanked and Z and Hot 99.5 were both at the bottom of the Washington ratings.

Instead of fighting back with rhythmic, Z went to Hot AC. Since then, Hot 99.5 has mainstreamed itself a bit, built some heritage, and is the 7th most listened to station in DC. Z104 could have had that spot if they wanted it, but they screwed it up royally. Hot 99.5 has reaped the benefits of being DC's only CHR, even though Z104 at the beginning of its life was a far superior station.

[Houster]

In New York City, I am able to get the Jersey Shore's alternative rock station, G-Rock (106.3 and 98.5), although the signal is a bit weak.

Still, an alt-rock station is sorely needed.

[allow that]

shaniagotchagood said:

NYC has no country station, which is shocking...

Not shocking at all. A station playing non-stop Polka from Turkmenistan would do better here.

The fact that we have no true Alt station on the other hand...

[jimmy74747]

jerseyboy said:

shaniagotchagood said:

NYC has no country station, which is shocking...

Not shocking at all. A station playing non-stop Polka from Turkmenistan would do better here.

I bet it would do better than you think. While a country station won't match Z-100, Hot 97, Lite 106. 7 or any of the top tier stations, I bet it would perform as well in the ratings as WPLJ does.

[Slinky]

jimmy74747 said:

I bet it would do better than you think.  While a country station won't match Z-100, Hot 97, Lite 106. 7 or any of the top tier stations, I bet it would perform as well in the ratings as WPLJ does.

The last Country station, WYNY on 103.5, got around a 2.5 share in its last days if I remember correctly. That's around where PLJ and CD101.9 are now, and where K-Rock would be without Howard Stern.

Supposedly there's an advertiser bias against country music in NYC that makes it hard to make money with the format, but it hasn't been tried in so long that it's hard to say if that still applies.

Country and Alternative should be right around the same ratings-wise. Both have few listeners in the city, but both do better in New Jersey and on Long Island. They'd be in the same situation as PLJ.

[EvanJ]

The last time New York City had Country was the many 107.1s, and I remember it having a rating near 1. The Westchester (Briarcliff Manor, NY) 107.1 (WYNY at the time, now WXPK) stopped being Country on May 8, 2002 (it changed to Spanish while also playing some English CHR-Rhythmic songs).