Golds Which Don't Get Played Anymore

[jdmasta289]

Lately, I've been compiling a list of hit gold songs from the '90s which, for whatever reason, don't get near the airplay these days as other songs on alternative radio. I think a topic was posted similar to this on the old R&R alt. forums, but here's an updated list.

Anyone feel like a certain great hit song from 1995 deserves more airplay now, and you can't understand why it doesn't get that?

Obviously, absolutely zero stations (that I'm familiar with, at least), still play many mainstream crossovers, such as ones from the late '90s and early '00s. But some artists who are still, or should remain, core to the format's success, just don't get the love. Some do with certain songs but not with others. Here's my list:

Stone Temple Pilots - Lady Picture Show, Sour Girl
Eels - Novocaine For The Soul
Primitive Radio Gods - Standing Outside A Broken...
Bush - Swallowed, Greedy Fly, The Chemicals Between Us
Garbage - Anything except "Only Happy When It Rains"
Pearl Jam - Anything post Vs. (except "Better Man") - songs like "Last Kiss", "Given To Fly", & "Wishlist" come to mind
Third Eye Blind (for the life of me, I can't understand why this band central to that "alternative" sound in the late '90s gets shunned to this day.)
Live - Lakini's Juice, The Dolphin's Cry
Wallflowers (they're pretty mainstream, but should they be shunned to this level? I mean, they won several grammies and he's the son of Bob Dylan, who inspired many alt. artists)
Silverchair (good - but safe - post-grunge which doesn't get the light of day)
Collective Soul (see above)
Nixons - Sister (see above)
Flys - Got You (Where I Want You)
Sonic Youth, Pixies, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Morrissey
Pre-"Give It Away" Chili Peppers (wasn't "Higher Ground" a relatively big hit then?)
Liz Phair
The Ataris

Any more ???

[Nicholas2.0]

Between KPNT & KNSX here in St. Louis, I still hear most of that stuff.

[pen]

I hear a lot of old alternative bands at work alongside some of the newer ones. It's actually pretty refreshing considering my previous jobs played mostly crappy pop songs. Not that I don't hear those either, but when I can get paid to hear "Under The Bridge", "When I Come Around", "Never Let You Go", "All For You", "One Headlight", and "December", I can stand a little crap now and then.

[American Idiot]

Some 90s bands I wish I still heard today are Gin Blossoms, Soul Asylum, Oasis, Our Lady Peace, Goo Goo Dolls, Counting Crows, Semisonic, Reel Big Fish, Tonic, Local H, Sponge, Everclear, Eve 6, Sugar Ray, Smash Mouth, Matchbox 20, etc .

[jdmasta289]

I don't think I've ever heard Collective Soul, the Wallflowers, or Third Eye Blind (not to mention the Gin Blossoms, Matchbox 20, Goo Goo Dolls, Semisonic, Sugar Ray, Counting Crows, etc.) on an actual alternative station since I began listening to the format exclusively in 2000.

I can understand metal-leaning artists like Limp Bizkit and Kid Rock scoring major success here, because their albums sold eye-popping amounts in the first place, and many Active and Active-leaning stations still play them. But, it's kind of baffling that lighter artists like Sugar Ray, Goo Goo Dolls, Counting Crows, Sheryl Crow, among countless others actually dominated the alternative charts at one point. Which brings up an interesting question - when was the Active Rock format founded, and did any of the "lighter" groups ever experience success there as well?

It seems like 1998 thru 2000 was a very strange period in alternative history, where you had mostly mainstream and pop-rock crossovers ruling the charts. Check out this chart from eight years ago this week (taken from DuckHead's Pop Radio Top 20 site, thanks Ducky!! :))

Those songs bring back great memories of long ago. I strongly like most of them, but can't believe this is the same alternative format that embraced hard rap-metal just two years later.

1 2 Never There Cake 9
2 1 Fly Away Lenny Kravitz 10
3 3 Slide Goo Goo Dolls 10
4 5 Pretty Fly (For A White Guy) Offspring 6
5 4 Celebrity Skin Hole 12
6 6 Got You (Where I Want You) Flys 12
7 7 What It's Like Everlast 4
8 8 Circles Soul Coughing 7
9 11 The Sweetest Thing U2 5
10 9 Inside Out Eve 6 27
11 10 Father Of Mine Everclear 17
12 13 Save Tonight Eagle-Eye Cherry 15
13 12 Lullaby Shawn Mullins 10
14 15 You Get What You Give New Radicals 2
15 16 Bittersweet Fuel 4
16 18 Special Garbage 3
17 - It's All Been Done Barenaked Ladies 1
18 14 Jumper Third Eye Blind 17
19 - Tropicalia Beck 2
20 20 Daysleeper R.E.M. 5

I counted 10 songs you wouldn't hear on alt. radio now. I personally like pretty much all of them. Never was a Goo Goo or Lenny fan, but I miss the days when 3EB, Matchbox, and Everclear were shellin' 'em out. I also miss those crazy one-hit wonders of the time.

And now for 2000: (WOW!!!!)

1 1 Hemorrhage (In My Hands) Fuel 14
2 2 Original Prankster Offspring 7
3 3 Man Overboard Blink-182 9
4 4 Loser 3 Doors Down 15
5 5 Rollin' Limp Bizkit 6
6 10 Hanging By A Moment Lifehouse 3
7 6 Beautiful Day U2 11
8 7 Fiction (Dreams In Digital) Orgy 12
9 12 Broken Home Papa Roach 6
10 9 Stellar Incubus 21
11 11 Optimistic Radiohead 7
12 8 Minority Green Day 12
13 15 One Step Closer Linkin Park 5
14 13 Last Resort Papa Roach 27
15 14 Awake Godsmack 5
16 18 When It All Goes Wrong Again Everclear 2
17 16 3 Libras A Perfect Circle 8
18 17 Stupify Disturbed 19
19 - Renegades Of Funk Rage Against The Machine 1
20 - On The Roof Again Eve 6 1

Not as many that you wouldn't hear (probably only Lifehouse, actually), but it was clearly much more metal-leaning.

American Idiot, I'm glad you brought up Our Lady Peace. It's kind of a shame they never got the light of day, and weren't really given a fair chance beyond "Clumsy", other than, of course, "Somewhere Out There".

[pen]

Oh bah. I should've been the one to bring them up.

[halo19]

The following are golds which you have mentioned that I do hear on the radio every so often:
Eels - "Novocaine for the Soul"
Bush - "The Chemicals Between Us" (What radio station is this? I know that it came on all of the time when I last had a commercial "alternative" radio station)
The Flys - "Got You (Where I Want You)"
Nixons - "Sister"
Garbage - "Stupid Girl," "Push It"

That being said, I agree with some of that, particularly the DM, SY, etc. type stuff. I think the radio focuses a little bit TOO much on the grunge-era stuff. It's kind of ridiculous.

Others that they could possibly play:
Radiohead - "Fake Plastic Trees," "High and Dry," "Karma Police"; maybe even "Optimistic" and "There, There" ("Creep" is so overplayed, they may as well consider playing these every once in a while)
Björk - "Human Behavior" (It was a top five hit and is a good pop song.)
Tori Amos - "God," "Cornflake Girl," "Caught a Lite Sneeze," "Spark"
Some PJ Harvey (I mean, all three singles off of Stories... made the alt. chart! And she is more influential to the format than it seems)
VAST - "Touched," "Free" (Every radio station that is still playing VAST deserves a gold star.)
Nine Inch Nails - "Into the Void" (Arguably a template for the direction he went in on With Teeth)

I've actually heard "Behind the Sun" by RHCP on a commerical alternative station before. "Knock Me Down" was a hit before "Higher Ground." One exception of what you described, at least for me, is No Doubt. I still heard "Just a Girl," "Spiderwebs," and "Ex-Girlfriend" quite frequently on alternative frequently the last I listened.

[MyLastView]

Liz Phair : D

[oscillations.]

I hear Garbage a lot still.

My station WHTG still has WDYLM on high rotation haha

[tortuga]

I only hear "I'm Only Happy When It Rains"...when it rains. Yikes.

[Walking Contradiction]

jdmasta289 said:

Stone Temple Pilots - Lady Picture Show, Sour Girl
Eels - Novocaine For The Soul
Primitive Radio Gods - Standing Outside A Broken...
Bush - Swallowed, Greedy Fly, The Chemicals Between Us
Garbage - Anything except "Only Happy When It Rains"
Pearl Jam - Anything post Vs. (except "Better Man") - songs like "Last Kiss", "Given To Fly", & "Wishlist" come to mind
Live - Lakini's Juice, The Dolphin's Cry
Silverchair (good - but safe - post-grunge which doesn't get the light of day)
Collective Soul (see above)
Nixons - Sister (see above)
Flys - Got You (Where I Want You)
Pixies, Depeche Mode, The Cure, Morrissey
Pre-"Give It Away" Chili Peppers (wasn't "Higher Ground" a relatively big hit then?)
The Ataris

Soul Asylum, Oasis, Our Lady Peace, Counting Crows, Reel Big Fish, Tonic, Local H, Sponge, Everclear, Eve 6

Radiohead - "Fake Plastic Trees," "High and Dry," "Karma Police", "There, There"
Some PJ Harvey (I mean, all three singles off of Stories... made the alt. chart! And she is more influential to the format than it seems)

WHTG still plays everything mentioned above - they're generally very good about playing '90s stuff.  However, they won't play the softest/poppiest late-90s hits (Sugar Ray, MB20, etc.), and for the most part, I'm happy about that, though I do wish they'd play 3EB (I think I may have heard them play "Graduate", but I'm not positive) and the Wallflowers.

[crve015]

I hear every STP single pre- "No Way Out" and every Bush single pre- "Warm Machine."

I usually hear "Stupid Girl," "#1 Crush," and "Special" from Garbage.

There isn't one Red Hot Chili Peppers song that still isn't played here. I even heard "Dosed" pretty recently.

[jdmasta289]

I'll ask this question again, actually because I'm really dying to know. Other than chart data, I really don't know much about how the alternative chart existed before about 1999, when I started actually paying attention to R&R's data and occasionally listening to 105.9 the Lazer's weak Lawrence connection. Before then, it was top 40 music and that's pretty much it.

Also, when was the Active Rock chart founded (penance or fatalthirteen might know)? And were spin totals the same for all charts as they are now? Most of you are still in your lower twenties, but you're never too early to begin listening and following the charts. I'm asking you to dwell on your experiences.

[crash46]

RHCP hits that I've never heard on the radio this entire decade:

Knock Me Down (I hear "Higher Ground" all the time, but this came first and it was a bigger hit)
Show Me Your Soul (soundtrack hit that was still bigger than "Higher Ground", statistically speaking)
Behind The Sun (#7 hit; "Suck My Kiss" was a #15, "Breaking the Girl" hit #19, still hear those two)
Warped (another #7 hit that outperformed "Love Rollercoaster" and arguably "Aeroplane", both of which I still hear.)

I was going to say something about "Lakini's Juice" when I was here last night, but strangely enough, I heard it on the radio today for the first time, ever.

Aside from Nirvana, the most overplayed band on the radio around here is Bush, and "The Chemicals Between Us" is no exception. I wouldn't mind hearing "Letting The Cables Sleep" every now and then though; it did hit the top 3 after all. I don't think I've ever heard "Greedy Fly", though.

It really does bug me that, seemingly, because a line was conveniently drawn for the music of Nirvana, Soundgarden, and Alice in Chains where there simply was no more, that similar lines had to be forced upon similar bands like The Stone Temple Pilots and Pearl Jam. I mean, if they really are influential enough to have songs from 1991 that still get as much burn as the currents at the bottom of the chart 15 years later, what's the harm in mixing in a "Sour Girl" or an "I Am Mine" from those same bands.

Then you have a band like Radiohead, who had been around since the early nineties, but really didn't become darlings of the critics until fairly recently. So how does Alternative respond? Take one song ("Creep", of course) and absolutely drown it in airplay. Quota fulfilled. Here's the current airplay figures for the top two Radiohead songs on the radio today:

#11 "Creep" (325 plays)
#230 "Karma Police" (91 plays)

Ask anyone that even has a remote idea: what song represents the music of 1993. Who would seriously say "Creep" by Radiohead. It's just radio taking the easy way out and it drives me insane with every passing of the lyrics "You're so very special" Thom Yorke even said himself that the biggest regret of his lifetime was re-recording those lyrics. Dammit, at least play something that the artist can be proud of every now and then.

But it doesn't just happen at a couple radio station; this happens all over the place. Then they try and put their streaming audio on the internet, and I'm thinking, "90% of these stations across the country are exactly the same; why bother?". You prove to me you belong in that other 10% that actually has something unique to offer, that's when I'll go out of my way to listen, and remember you if I'm visiting a city in your broadcast range. Otherwise, I'll just stick to my mp3's.

[Pipa]

Weird, isn't it. Our station ignores almost all of those songs, yet plays stuff from Pearl Jam like I Am Mine and Given To Fly.

[jdmasta289]

Judging by you guys' responses, your stations seem sooooo much more diverse than mine, which is ironic because mine prides themselves in playing a plethora of indie music.

They play local bands like the Get Up Kids, Blackpool Lights, & Reggie and the Full Effect in relatively high rotation.

They play almost everything from the White Stripes, Sublime (all non-singles and even some b-sides), Jack Johnson, Dashboard Confessional, Jimmy Eat World, and the Strokes. However, They only have two Radiohead singles in rotation - "Creep" in high rotation and "Karma Police" in low to medium rotation.

They play almost no grunge after 1996 - nothing from STP, Pearl Jam, Alice In Chains, Smashing Pumpkins, Nirvana (obviously). They don't play Candlebox or Screaming Trees (two relatively successful grunge bands who formed before '94). I've NEVER heard any Offspring after 1994 except for "Gone Away" (ocassionally), "Pretty Fly", & "Why Don't You Get A Job".

They don't play most of the songs from both charts I posted (from '98 and '00)

They play every RHCP single in low to high rotation except for the pre-"Give It Away" singles, "Warped", "Walkabout", "Parallel Universe", and "Dosed" - all singles from the band.

In all reality, my station is very unrepresentative of the panel, and while they play almost everything from a certain select set of artists, they play almost nothing from artists with similar musical backgrounds. They are also stuck in the '90s - I'd say 30-40% of what they play comes from the '90s. About 25% of what they play is actually on the chart right now.

If I were ever music programmer for my alternative station, oh the changes I would make.....

[jdmasta289]

And on a separate note, I'll elaborate or expand upon what crash said. It seems that alternative radio now largely ignores what happened between 1997 and 2001. Grunge is overrepresented, but occasionally successful (but short-lived) bands are almost completely ignored. Almost everything before 1991 is largely ignored, save Jane's Addiction or a very occasional U2 song.

I've never understood how stations will play it safe with certain singles, and never open up to later singles from successful CORE artists of the format - songs like "Nothing As It Seems", "Sour Girl", and "Perfect" (Pumpkins) come to mind. Programmers might argue that they don't play these later songs because they're largely unrecognizable to mainstream fans. Part of what will keep alternative ratings up, in my opinion, is catering to (and drawing in) newer and younger audiences by playing some newer songs from classic alt-rock bands. And if older alt. fans are enlightened or open-minded enough, they would consciously listen to the rarer songs maybe largely for the purpose of recognizing the voice or sound of the band. Continue to usher in the new era, and don't fall into that "washed up/has been" category as the music and DJ's themselves expose in the rock and AC formats.

I also think there's a problem when stations ignore certain songs that are popular. I'm not arguing for conformity among stations by any means, but they need to consciously pay attention to what's new and popular to draw in ratings, which will in turn help album sales and just overall attention to alternative genre. Maybe there's a reason, but the #1 song of 2006, which could be Three Days Grace, has received exactly....ZERO....spins on my station. That is a problem.

[American Idiot]

One of the main reasons why I love listening to WPBZ when I go home for one is because they play such a variety of new music on the chart, but another main reason is because they will come out of nowhere every so often and play for example Better Than Ezra's "Desperately Wanting," Tonic's "Knock Down Walls," Collective Soul's "Precious Declaration," or really just about anything from the late 80s and on. They have as they call it "recycled buzz weekends" once in awhile, where they play mostly old gold songs.

WOCL does a similar thing once in a blue moon on weekends, and I know most stations around the country do the same periodically, and especially on holiday weekends. At noon every weekday they do this segment of music called "The Nooner" where its a request hour of only songs from 1990-1999. However, during regular programming, they do play the same Nirvana/Chili Peppers/Pearl Jam/Metallica/etc golds all the time, which gets really annoying.

[crash46]

Well, the late nineties' alternative by today's definition isn't much different than Hot AC (and if it's not Hot AC-friendly, it was likely just a short-lived fad), and I think the mindset of Alternative is that if you still want to hear those 1996-1999 Alternative hits, you're probably just listening to Hot AC anyway, so let them have those songs.

I think as a sort of pop/rock backlash, alternative looked at the angry new metal movement in 1999 as "the next grunge" and totally overloaded on that. Then the fallout of new metal gave way to various trends and fads, leading to the "little bit of everything" state that we have today. Yet new metal never completely died off, because it still contributes to the identity of modern rock music, unlike the late-90's pop/rock that dominates Hot AC. That's why there's this gaping hole in the timeline of gold airplay.

[jdmasta289]

You argue that they should "let the Hot AC stations have them", but this really traces back to that old question: Why was it alternative in the first place? Was the emergence of Hot AC radio in the late '90s really that big of a factor, so that all alternative stations literally dropped the lighter pop-rock altogether after, say, late '99?

The uniformity of the format in 1998 and early '99 was shocking. As was the uniformity during a completely separate era - 2000 and 2001 when metal dominated.

I think part of the problem may have been that there was almost nothing for alternative to play in those years, because all the artists central to the format had either died off or were in the process of dying off commercially. And radio alone couldn't salvage the slumping album sales of the late-'90s Smashing Pumpkins or Stone Temple Pilots. '80s groups like the Cure and Depeche Mode weren't particularly doing anything at the time.

It seems like stations now are more divided than ever - the only overlap is central core artists to the format - NIN, FF, Chilis, PJ, etc., and that's why those artists shoot to #1 and stay there for sustained periods of time. Those artists never went away, despite what the trend was in the late '90s/2000. I like that there's a "little bit of everything" now and hope it stays that way. (I think if there's any year 2006 comes close to in the types of artists getting played, it would be 1996).

Trends in the format are fascinating and I could seriously (attempt to, haha) write a book on the subject.

[crash46]

jdmasta289 said:

You argue that they should "let the Hot AC stations have them", but this really traces back to that old question: Why was it alternative in the first place?  Was the emergence of Hot AC radio in the late '90s really that big of a factor, so that all alternative stations literally dropped the lighter pop-rock altogether after, say, late '99?

Well, grunge added the first commercial elements to alternative radio, and after the sudden apparent death of grunge, I think alternative was pretty much left hanging with few options that could maintain that commercialism, so it pretty much played it safe. At the time, Hot AC was still latched onto the 80's, and while pop/rock was still successful on the pop chart, it wasn't dominant like the solo females and the vocal groups. So it wasn't that big of an identity crisis. But then finally an opportunity arose to rewrite its identity through new metal, and alternative just jumped all over it.

And right now, it ain't perfect--we still have a sickening amount of payola going on, and we still have Hinder--but I think it's got just the right mix of everything right now, and as a result, 2006 has been as good of a year for music as I can remember. Still, if I had the chance, first thing I'd probably change is the golds.

[jdmasta289]

I have several more burning questions:

I have no idea when the Active Rock format began.  Three Days Grace, Hinder, Crossfade, Godsmack, and Disturbed obviously didn't exist (or weren't successful, that is) before 2000 when the Active Rock format really took off?  During the '90s, which rock bands did Active Rock play in place of the mentioned bands?  I can think of several loud, metallic bands to emerge in the '90s outside of grunge - Nine Inch Nails, Stabbing Westward, and Filter are three that come to the top of my head - but there had to be more.  What did Active Rock play in the '90s?

And when was Hot AC formed?  Or were there just really "light"-leaning alternative stations during much of the '90s, which would prove me wrong on the "division only exists today" argument?

And why did songs travel much more quickly on the chart before about 1998?  In the early '90s, songs rarely spent over ten weeks on the chart.  That number slowly grew to 15 or 20 by the mid-'90s, and then it slowly started to become larger and larger.  Now, since about 2003, the number of songs spending 30+ weeks on the chart seems to have fallen (pretty dramatically this past year as well).  Was the frequency in spins among "newer" songs greater (leading to wild, rapid chart runs) in 1992 because there weren't as many older songs to play?

And grunge never really dominated until about 1994, when STP and Soundgarden started to come along strong.

I find it AMAZING that Alice In Chains never hit the chart with "Man In The Box", "Would?", and "Rooster", yet those songs are played as golds today.  Also, songs from Soundgarden's first major label album (name escapes me) never made it.  And how could alternative be so "un-receptive" toward the most frequent golds of today, such as "In Bloom", "Yellow Ledbetter", "Sex Type Thing", etc.?  Pearl Jam never had a top 10 hit until "Crazy Mary"!!!!  :o  When did Metallica start getting gold airplay on alt. radio? Has the alternative format really exaggerated the popularity of grunge that much, or, save Nirvana, was that music considered more "mainstream rock" or even "Active Rock" until about '93 or '94

I've got questions, and (hopefully), you've got answers.  :)

[halo19]

Actually, "Jeremy" was PJ's first top 10 hit. It peaked at #5. "Crazy Mary" was second. Radio pretty much jumped on anything PJ from '93-'95. "Jeremy" was when the record started really shifting units, too.

Metallica started getting airplay on the charts in 1996, the year they headlined Lollapalooza. It kind of seemed meant to happen. Alice in Chains were a metal band who was dark enough to connect with grunge, and with their alternative success, it was inevitable that some stations would pick up on Metallica. Soundgarden's songs from Badmotorfinger did not make the chart yet at the time, but they did have minor apppearances on the Album Rock chart with "Outshined" and "Rusty Cage."

Hmmm.. I find the Hot A/C thing interesting... I thought that's kind of why alternative started going in a more Active Rock direction later... and why a lot of '80's golds stopped being played on alternative.

[Nicholas2.0]

Here's a current sampling of what my beloved KNSX is playing. (I'll be doing other stuff before hitting the "post reply" button. And they've refreshed! It's been 3 agonizingly long months, until Tuesday, without a "new" song. The last ones I could tell they added (according to fmqb) were Nickelback's "Rockstar" & "Hate" by the Plain White T's.

Kid Rock "Bawitdaba"
*Taking Back Sunday "Liar"
Greenwheel "Breathe" (the song Melissa Etheridge would later cover and semi-popularize on Hot AC stations)
*The Decemberists "O Valencia" (I didn't know [technically "remember"] what this was until she identified it. First Decemberists song on 93X. Wow!)
Red Hot Chili Peppers "Tell Me Baby" (Though I've thankfully heard "Snow" 3-4 times already since they refreshed on Tuesday.)
Damone "Out Here All Night"
Arctic Monkeys "I Bet You Look Good on the Dance Floor"
Muse "Knights of Cydonia"
Staind "It's Been Awhile"
Breaking Benjamin "The Diary of Jane"
Seether "The Gift"
Snow Patrol "Hands Open"
*Evans Blue "Over"
Thousand Foot Krutch "Rawkfist"
Stone Sour "Through Glass"
Mest "What's the Dillio?"
Shinedown "Save Me" (I still haven't heard them pick up "Heroes," yet, if they have.)
Chevelle "Vitamin R"
Nickelback "Rockstar"
Billie Myers "Tell Me" (I've been familiar with the chorus over the years from 93X, but I had to look up lyrics to this just now to identify it.)
*AFI "Love Like Winter"
*OK Go "Here It Goes Again" (The stuttery verses, brief as they are, kind of remind me of Billy Joel's "We Didn't Start the Fire.")
Rage Against the Machine "Renegades of Funk"
*Blue October "Into the Ocean"
The Music "Breakin'"
Soul Coughing "Super Bon Bon"
*The All-American Rejects "It Ends Tonight"
*+44 "When Your Heart Stops Beating"
The Fray "How to Save a Life"

Keep in mind that the only talk is the DJ's automated voice identifying current songs, station ID's every few songs, and the occasional 1 minute of commercial every so often.

And with that, I'll be going to bed. (God, I hope I don't sleep through my alarm.) Overall, not a bad sample.

[Pipa]

My station still plays '90's Hot AC-ish songs, like Matchbox 20 and Collective Soul.  However, they've completely dropped the Goo Goo Dolls.

They also play every single off of "What's The Story, Morning Glory" except "Wonderwall".

[mst3k]

jdmasta289 said:

And when was Hot AC formed? 

Hot AC evolved from the late '80s/early '90s fragmentation of CHR radio... those stations that refused to play urban/rap songs, but weren't quite as soft as Adult Contemporary. R&R started their Hot AC chart 4/22/94. Billboard came to their senses the week of 3/16/96 when they started their Adult Top 40 chart (prior to that, they included Hot AC stations in their AC chart).

I'd theorize that once Hot AC started embracing acts like the Goo Goo Dolls and Collective Soul toward the latter half of the '90s, that was the death knell for them at Alternative.

[DuckHead]

jdmasta289 said:

I have several more burning questions:

I have no idea when the Active Rock format began.  Three Days Grace, Hinder, Crossfade, Godsmack, and Disturbed obviously didn't exist (or weren't successful, that is) before 2000 when the Active Rock format really took off?  During the '90s, which rock bands did Active Rock play in place of the mentioned bands?  I can think of several loud, metallic bands to emerge in the '90s outside of grunge - Nine Inch Nails, Stabbing Westward, and Filter are three that come to the top of my head - but there had to be more.  What did Active Rock play in the '90s?

And why did songs travel much more quickly on the chart before about 1998?  In the early '90s, songs rarely spent over ten weeks on the chart.  That number slowly grew to 15 or 20 by the mid-'90s, and then it slowly started to become larger and larger.  Now, since about 2003, the number of songs spending 30+ weeks on the chart seems to have fallen (pretty dramatically this past year as well).  Was the frequency in spins among "newer" songs greater (leading to wild, rapid chart runs) in 1992 because there weren't as many older songs to play?

I've got questions, and (hopefully), you've got answers.   :)

R&R's Active Rock chart was formed at some point between 1995 and 1996. Here is the earliest Active Rock chart data that I can find:

11/15/1996

1. Swallowed - Bush
2. Hero Of The Day - Metallica
3. Me Wise Magic - Van Halen
4. Blow Up The Outside World - Soundgarden
5. Muzzle - Smashing Pumpkins
6. Angels Of The Silences - Counting Crows
7. Open Up Your Eyes - Tonic
8. Bound For The Floor - Local H
9. Lady Picture Show - Stone Temple Pilots
10. Hail, Hail - Pearl Jam
11. I Was Wrong - Social Distortion
12. Bittersweet Me - R.E.M.
13. Stinkfist - Tool
14. What I Got - Sublime
15. Long Day - Matchbox 20
16. Charlie Brown's Parents - Dishwalla
17. Free - Phish
18. Looking For - Stir
19. The Beautiful People - Marilyn Manson
20. Would - Alice In Chains

So, with artists like Counting Crows and R.E.M., Active Rock wasn't that much different than Alternative, just a little harder.

As for the question regarding the slowdown of the charts, I wonder about that as well. Virtually all formats in R&R and Billboard slowed down around the mid-90's, and the best explanation I can come up with is that the slowdown occured roughly around the time of Clear Channel's massive buying spree. Clear Channel made a priority of streamlining their station's playlists, so that probably had something to do with it. The other explanation for the Alternative slowdown is that the format exploded in 1994, and more and more stations flipped to Alternative over the 1994-1997 period. I've found that the more stations that are on a chart panel, the slower the chart moves.

[mrclimbfall20]

This thread is awesome! I wish that there was a station that would play modern Alternative Rock but mix in Hot AC rock too. BTW, I'm annoyed that the Alternative stations never embraced Lifehouse...they're my favorite band lol

[jdmasta289]

Wow, minus Van Halen and Metallica, that looks like almost a carbon coby of the alternative chart. I can't believe R.E.M., the Counting Crows, Sublime, or Phish (!) could even make the Active Rock chart. I'm sure there were metalheads complaining of the Matchbox 20 airplay, too. But then, with their first album, they had that angsty, grungy, PJ-inspired feel that made artists like Default and Nickelback big in the first place.

Does anyone have any info. as to how many stations, roughly, were on the Alternative panel during its existence (since 1988 or maybe 4/1/94, the date of the first R&R alt. chart)?

Thanks to everyone for their input and information. I'm sure I'll think of more questions to come ;)