Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 6:11:27 GMT -5
Opionins are split on their message board . forums1.epicrecords.com/Artists/ModestMouse/It will be very interesting to hear the whole album. If they've turned into just another top40/hac band like Coldplay or Fray then they'll be dead artistically for many people. Large parts of the broader dempgraphic oscilliations mentioned didn't even deserve to hear their older stuff , just for the fact that they normally listen to disgusting teenybopper or hip-pop stuff. Modest Mouse used to be a band for those who do more than just listen to top40 radio to discover new music. But if they release an album full of Float On-/Dashboard-type songs we'll soon be witnessing cat-fights between All-American Rejects and Modest Mouse freaks in the top40 section of this board just like we know it from Beyonce or Mariah Carey threads and people talking about MM just like they were in the same league as Jessica Simpson and Bowling For Soup. I can't imagine any real Modest Mouse fan , who has been collecting all of their releases for years now , wanting them to be introduced to a broader , 50Cent , Usher and Britney Spears loving demographic.
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Jan 27, 2007 8:22:50 GMT -5
Well it's gonna debut in the Top 5 or 10 anyway.... Do you mean for longevity, then? you really think they will? (Debut that highly on the Hot 100?!) Well, I mean for the initial impact & hopefully the longevity. To Oneironaut: Regardless of what their fans think, MM has made a brilliant pop record here, & it deserves to be heard. Surprisingly, I'm not elitist at all in that aspect. I think great music deserves to be heard by as many people as possible (even if that isn't necessarily the band's initial intention).
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 8:32:57 GMT -5
^^ That's the problem , it seems like it is their intention now to appeal to top40 listeners. That's why many of their older fans like me keep complaining. It's not like there weren't any other good obscure and un-commercial groups out there anymore , it's just hard to let go of a band you considered your favorite.
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Jan 27, 2007 8:48:36 GMT -5
Making pop music doesn't necessarily mean your intention is to be a radio whore; a lot of great pop never even makes it close to radio. I think MM have progressively become more comfortable with hooky songwriting and incorporating dance elements to their music; this doesn't mean all this was born of commercial aims. But obviously, since they already had a "break" in '04, this WILL make them more enticing to radio/TV in '07 than if they had "gone back to" their more difficult sound. Modest Mouse will never be devalued, however, even if they get played next to the bands you listed on Top 40. And, above all, a band should never be overly concerned with pleasing their fans. As soon as you are making a record on your fans' terms, you are making a product, and that's as good as "selling out". It could be argued, then, that the most tasteless move MM could make would be to aim to "decommercialize" themselves. It wouldn't be organic at this point & it would come off as willful desperation.
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pen
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Post by pen on Jan 27, 2007 10:31:16 GMT -5
People need to grow up. And no, I don't care to elaborate too much more on that statement. I think it speaks for itself. But honestly, it's just a band, and it is just a band, when you come down to it. I have favorite bands too, but I also remember that I used to also be young and naive, and I could really care less who likes the bands that I do as long as they like them. This whole habit some people have of wanting their bands to forever be their secret treasure makes me a little ill. It's like Gollum.
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Post by Pipa on Jan 27, 2007 10:39:52 GMT -5
I couldn't see this doing well on pop, it sounds weird on the radio.
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Post by Walking Contradiction on Jan 27, 2007 12:38:44 GMT -5
I don't have anything new to say on this subject, so I'll just say I agree 100% with the comments made by oscillations and penance. And honestly, I think it's more than a little ridiculous to compare their current direction to Coldplay and The Fray (not that I have anything against those bands), and I certainly don't think they're going to become a teenybopper sensation like Bowling For Soup or whoever.
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Jan 27, 2007 12:42:51 GMT -5
Let's make predictions then for this song (based on it's current status).
Mine: R&R Alternative/Billboard MR (assuming they correspond): #3 Billboard Hot 100: #23 R&R Top 40 (IF they release it there): #39 iTunes: Top 5
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Post by galvanize on Jan 27, 2007 13:45:19 GMT -5
I'm in love with this song. It won't do a "Float On" but easily will be more successful than "Ocean Breathes Salty". (My personal favorite!)
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 14:25:21 GMT -5
People need to grow up. And no, I don't care to elaborate too much more on that statement. I think it speaks for itself. But honestly, it's just a band, and it is just a band, when you come down to it. I have favorite bands too, but I also remember that I used to also be young and naive, and I could really care less who likes the bands that I do as long as they like them. This whole habit some people have of wanting their bands to forever be their secret treasure makes me a little ill. It's like Gollum. Oh , you're already 23 so you can't be young and naive anymore. To oscilliations, I never said that making pop music was the sole reason for them disappointing so many of their long-time fans. It's more than that. There are bands who are around mainly to write "hits" (Coldplay , Fray , Killers) , the purpose of these bands has always been to appeal to as many people as possible. There's nothing wrong with these bands , but for the first part of their career Modest Mouse haven't been one of these bands. They were a band which put their longtime fans in excitement each time they released a new album , because these albums were full of poetry , complexity and so many things to discover with each listen. And now that they're signed to Epic most of this seems to have vanished , Moon And Antarctica was still outstanding and Good News has its moments but both of these albums never came close to their earlier outings. And now their latest stuff sounds even more commercial and different from their earlier masterpieces , so many of their long-time fans are disappointed. And it's not like examples of bands keeping their own uncommercial sound despite being signed to a major label didn't exist , Built To Spill comes to mind. Their new stuff isn't bad , but it doesn't come close to their earlier stuff imo and as a long-time fan it's painful to see them taking that new direction.
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 14:28:19 GMT -5
Predictions:
Alternative: #2 Triple A : Top5 CHR/HAC: Top30 on both Hot100: May depend of CHR/MTV success , but I think top20 might be possible.
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Jan 27, 2007 14:33:13 GMT -5
Well, I guess then it's time to find a new band if you truly feel they are failing you. And people on the outside of the hardcore fanbase (no, I don't mean casual radio listeners) continue to be marveled by MM's output. When it's primarily fans complaining about a "decline" in quality, you know there are ulterior motives - you want to be part of something exclusive, and you aren't anymore. Well, guess what? It's happened to me, too. But I don't begrudge anyone the right to become widely recognized for their music. Actually, I don't even believe MM harbor any degree of commercial ambition. Their change in style is a natural evolution as far as I'm concerned. If this change has resulted in greater accessibility, so be it. They are a far cry from Coldplay, still (who, by the way, don't merely exist to "write hits").
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 15:34:43 GMT -5
^^ As I mentioned before , there are other bands out there, it's just a little sad.
I consider Coldplay to be a "hit music" band, and I don't mean this in a derogatory way.
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Post by American Idiot on Jan 27, 2007 18:26:12 GMT -5
Tracklisting 01) March Into the Sea 02) Dashboard 03) Fire It Up 04) Florida 05) Parting of the Sensory 06) Missed the Boat 07) We've Got Everything 08) Fly Trapped in a Jar 09) Education 10) Little Motel 11) Steam Engenius 12) Spitting Venom 13) People As Places As People 14) Invisible
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halo19
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Post by halo19 on Jan 27, 2007 19:03:28 GMT -5
The way I see it, speaking about how Modest Mouse are sellouts is about as irrelevant as, say, AFI. Both groups obviously signed to major labels, so obviously they WERE looking for radio play. And in Modest Mouse's case, that doesn't lose their credibility either. Arguably, Good News was actually more atonal and quirky on the whole than Moon, even if the other was more praised by long-time fans (including myself), and the songs no longer the long lengths that they once were. Besides, in order for most bands to realistically stay together, they usually need to do something along the lines of signing to a major label and releasing music for the masses (hey, Depeche Mode were brilliant at the latter ![](http://yoursmiles.org/ssmile/fun/s0244.gif) ) and still use their own style. And, using things in the mainstream perspective, we need more bands like Modest Mouse to be exposed. The point of keeping your band as "secret" is not only slightly delusional but also selfish and unfair.
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 27, 2007 19:39:14 GMT -5
^^ It's definitely selfish , but I think it's not unfair. One good band crossing over to CHR doesn't make a change , in fact , there are many good bands getting top40 airplay but overall the format still sucks , for different reasons. If Dashboard (which in my opinion is a good song) crosses over then that won't change the format , it will just expose MM to people who normally listen to horrendous "music" , and most of them surely won't start searching for good music just because they like MM , in fact , most of them are just going to recognize MM as a top40 band. Anyways , I wish them all the best as I'd rather have them selling tons of albums than shitty acts like Hinder or 50 Cent.
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pen
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Post by pen on Jan 27, 2007 20:12:19 GMT -5
Oh , you're already 23 so you can't be young and naive anymore. I think the record will show that I am still naive. You can be naive too! It's fun for all ages and lifestyles. What I meant though was that it seems a lot of people condemn young teenagers for latching onto their favorite bands when we were all young teenagers at some point and we all probably did much the same thing. But then again I guess we all come from different backgrounds. I'm sure at age 13 you were listening to some obscure underground low-key folk group. Anyway, since I agree with everything oscillations has said, and since you probably won't take my opinion seriously anyway since I'm one of those people who listens to "horrendous music", the only thing I want to add is that whether Modest Mouse does well on radio or not, there is no way for you to keep fans of music you don't like or appreciate from listening to bands you like. It is a fact of life that unless a band is extremely underground and only known in particular circles, you're going to have a melting pot of fans listening to them. I think by this point Modest Mouse has already risen to that level of success. Even before Good News, I knew who they were because they were a very talked about band. That's mainly the reason why they were signed, because they had that kind of buzz going for them. And I happen to listen to Fall Out Boy, Coldplay, Static-X, and Avenged Sevenfold as well, and there's not a single damn thing you can do about it, so you might as well accept that we are both fans of the same band. Bands are not like a club or a cult. These are people spending their lives trying to break even just so they can pump out some music and express their artistic side in the hopes that someone will listen. That's true of all bands, commercial or not. No one "knows" if a song will be a hit. You say bands like Coldplay are around to write hits, but who can honestly say if a song will blow up or not? It's a ridiculous thing to assume and that's why so many groups die out trying to write that one smash single. If it was that easy to write a popular song, more bands would be doing it. Maybe that was a tangent, but my point is that Modest Mouse has every right to want to pursue a wider audience beyond whatever indie fans have picked up on them. It is never every or any band's dream to only have a handful of people buying their albums and hearing their music and to be forever playing in people's basements, even though it seems to be the dream of a lot of fans that their favorite bands forever wallow in obscurity. And whether you feel Modest Mouse has watered down their music or not, they sound unlike most everything else on the radio right now, so I don't quite see what the problem is. It could be so much worse. Example: they could break up. Yes, I know, I still had a lot to say even though I promised I didn't. I apologize.
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Chato
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Post by Chato on Jan 28, 2007 6:25:58 GMT -5
The buzz they had going for them began well before Good News , that's true . Not surprisingly it began when they released Moon on a major label and Gravity Rides Everything could be heard on alternative radio and in a TV commercial. I still think those were their first steps into commercialism. Then Good News appeared in 2004 , and it contained two songs for which they filmed to MTV-ready videos and for which their label did lots of promotion. So it couldn't come to anyone's surprise that these songs did incredibly well and helped push the sales of Good News over the one million mark. And here's my point about "writing hits" . If you know how to write a catchy song that gets stuck in the listeners ears (and Modest Mouse had written catchy songs before Float On) and you know that there's a big record company behind you with lots of money to produce a video and promote the song to radio stations , then you stand a better chance of scoring a hit than when you're signed to a non-major label. So , while there can never be total certainty , there are definitely serious differences in how easy it is for bands to score hits. And now , what makes it so hard for me to accept the direction MM are going is the fact that there are bands which signed to majors but nevertheless retained so much creative and artistic freedom that you still can consider them somewhat uncommercial (Built To Spill would be my prime example). Now I can totally understand that some people say that the new MM sound is the result of creative freedom and artistic development and maybe they are right. But for me and many other MM fans that's not the band that used to amaze us , gave us so much to think about and left us wondering each time we heard a song of theirs. The bottom line is that I can accept the way they're going but it's incredibly hard for me to realize that they're an entirely different band now.
Let me add , that I do take serious the opinions of almost any of the posters in this particular section of this board , that's why I come back to check them out every day. It's not the fact that people like you who listen to music (I assume that you search for music you like and not just listen to radio ; listen real closely ; read the lyrics and spend some time thinking about them etc.) that I happen to dislike , might also like the same stuff that I do (and I know that's often the case) that keeps me from seriously listening to some music. It's the fact that most people don't chose their favorite music by the criteria I listed . They look no further than hitradio/mtv , automatically take style over substance and put poets and artists like Isaac Brock on the same level as greedy misogynistic assholes like 50 Cent or horrible wannabe divas like Britney Spears.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Jan 29, 2007 1:11:45 GMT -5
For what it's worth, I have to deal with seeing teeny boppers wear Avenged Sevenfold T-shirts and I have to deal with the fact that Korn haven't been who I wanted them to be since they put Issues back in 1999. Those are the first two examples that come to mind.
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pen
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Post by pen on Jan 29, 2007 10:25:06 GMT -5
I have to deal with the fact that American Hi-Fi will probably never put out an album like their self-titled ever again and that all the bands on Wind-Up's roster are going to have to conform to their standards or be dropped.
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halo19
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Post by halo19 on Jan 29, 2007 14:38:49 GMT -5
I dunno. I see Modest Mouse crossing over kind of like R.E.M. and the Talking Heads crossing over in the '80s/early '90s. Or, a little bit like Coldplay. Meaning that while some people will only get a few of their songs, the core of their fan base can appreciate them for what they do. I say it's somewhat relevant at least because no matter what musical era you're in, the top-40 audience is always fickle and shallow, and occasionally actual substance music will be put in the same sentence as that stuff.
Bands have to evolve. I roll my eyes at some of the people I see at NIN concerts who wear certain T-shirts just to seem edgy and offensive, but at least that doesn't reflect the music very much (altho it seemed like the f-word on Teeth was often used for the sake of sounding more angry).
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No Brake$
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Post by No Brake$ on Jan 29, 2007 16:35:30 GMT -5
I dunno. I see Modest Mouse crossing over kind of like R.E.M. and the Talking Heads crossing over in the '80s/early '90s. Or, a little bit like Coldplay. Meaning that while some people will only get a few of their songs, the core of their fan base can appreciate them for what they do. I say it's somewhat relevant at least because no matter what musical era you're in, the top-40 audience is always fickle and shallow, and occasionally actual substance music will be put in the same sentence as that stuff. Bands have to evolve. I roll my eyes at some of the people I see at NIN concerts who wear certain T-shirts just to seem edgy and offensive, but at least that doesn't reflect the music very much (altho it seemed like the f-word on Teeth was often used for the sake of sounding more angry). Agree with everything. The REM\Talking Heads reference is exactly what I was going to say. It wouldn't surprise me either if Arcade Fire, Franz Ferdinand, Muse, Bravery, or perhaps someone like The Shins would do the same thing. Top 40 is actually giving a try on some new material these days, even moms and teenage girls like some variety.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Feb 1, 2007 1:19:07 GMT -5
you really think they will? (Debut that highly on the Hot 100?!) Well, I mean for the initial impact & hopefully the longevity. Well the Shins just debuted at #2, selling 118,000. Depending on what else comes out that same week, I'd say a Top 5 or 10 debut is a lock for Modest Mouse.
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Feb 1, 2007 20:39:36 GMT -5
Oh yeah, but that's the Top 200 albums chart. I definitely think they'll debut highly their first week there. Probably 80k-100k. I was referring to the Hot 100 singles chart.
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Nicholas2.0
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Post by Nicholas2.0 on Feb 2, 2007 1:43:04 GMT -5
Oh yeah, but that's the Top 200 albums chart. I definitely think they'll debut highly their first week there. Probably 80k-100k. I was referring to the Hot 100 singles chart. Ohhhhh!
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Feb 7, 2007 22:53:49 GMT -5
-- 61 MODEST MOUSE DASHBOARD ^Hot 100 Debut.
I expected more. It came in the mid 20s on the Download chart with 21k sold.
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Post by reception on Feb 16, 2007 19:18:58 GMT -5
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oscillations.
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Post by oscillations. on Feb 20, 2007 0:21:35 GMT -5
It's down to #99 on the Hot 100. Ugh. Even the new system doesn't really allow for non-Top 40 rock songs to chart for long. ![:-/](//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/undecided.png) I think this will make Top 5 at Alternative, but it needs some serious promotion in the arena of the mainstream. When will the video premiere? Hopefully MTV/MTV2/Fuse will make a big fuss over the premiere. Then again, MTV isn't particularly kind to "buzz acts" of two years ago. They'll put the video on low rotation, but won't give it the attention that "Float On" was allowed. Besides, between Lily, Silversun, and TVOTR, they've met their quota of "cutting-edge" bands for the next few months.
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roentgenizdat
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Post by roentgenizdat on Feb 21, 2007 20:21:07 GMT -5
Video added at VH1 and FUSE; all-day premiere next Tuesday on MTV2.
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Crushcrushchris
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Post by Crushcrushchris on Feb 26, 2007 21:25:44 GMT -5
Video is looking pretty cool. They should have a good first week. If the Shins could produce a great first week, then Modest Mouse, in theory, should do just as good.
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