"Active" Hot AC stations should be on Top 40 panel

[atlantaboy]

I think the CHR/Pop chart has been completely skewed in favor of rhythmic records even since the late 90s when Hot AC's became popular - if Clear Channel Kiss stations that cater to 12-19 years olds and maybe play one or two mainstream songs are considered CHR/Pop, than all the Hot AC stations that rotate their biggest hits more than 40x a week and play Fergie, Beyonce, Rihanna, and Justin Timberlake SHOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED CHR/TOP 40 - Seems like the "split" was made so that record labels could boast about how many #1 hits Justin Timberlake and Beyonce have etc. (even though these are not true #1 hits if combined with all the "active" Hot AC stations

[shocker]

atlantaboy said:

I think the CHR/Pop chart has been completely skewed in favor of rhythmic records even since the late 90s when Hot AC's became popular - if Clear Channel Kiss stations that cater to 12-19 years olds and maybe play one or two mainstream songs are considered CHR/Pop, than all the Hot AC stations that rotate their biggest hits more than 40x a week and play Fergie, Beyonce, Rihanna, and Justin Timberlake SHOULD ALSO BE CONSIDERED CHR/TOP 40 - Seems like the "split" was made so that record labels could boast about how many #1 hits Justin Timberlake and Beyonce have etc. (even though these are not true #1 hits if combined with all the "active" Hot AC stations

You make some very good points, but I don't know if I can agree with forcing those Hot ACs to be labeled as CHR just because they may have a higher turnover, and spin a good share of Justin Timberlake or Fergie.

Hot AC is also called Adult Top 40. In other words, this format IS top 40 or CHR, except that it appeals to more of an adult audience. These Hot ACs you think should be considered CHR still play a lot of songs that many regular top 40 stations refuse to play.

Don't shake things up too much. The Hot AC station list and airplay chart is fine the way it is. If these CHR-leaning Hot ACs were to be re-classified, the Hot AC chart would probably start looking more like Triple-A or adult alternative.

Don't wish too hard - it might come true!

[Slinky]

I agree with Shocker. The Hot AC format was meant to be "top 40 for adults". If adults are now wanting to hear Beyonce, Rihanna, etc., then that's what Hot AC should be playing.

[atlantaboy]

The problem is this makes the "Top 40" chart completely meaningless - about 1/4 of the "Top 40 Pop" panel should be classified under "Rhythmic" - the only accurate way, I think, to chart how well a single is doing with mainstream audience is to combine Top 40 and Hot AC charts - for example, there's no way that "Summer Love" is going to be considered (in 6 months) a bigger hit that "Home" or "Makes Me Wonder"

[Marv]

It's been that way for over 15 years, and you can thank (or blame) LA's KIIS for that.

Check out my reply under your thread 'CHR/Pop needs to play a wide variety of music' for a history lesson regarding CHR/Pop radio's existence and struggles over the past 15-20 years.

Slinky & shocker are both 100% correct; Hot AC (or Adult Top 40) has replaced CHR/Pop as THE mass-appeal format out there since the mid-nineties (1994?), when R&R & BB introduced their Hot AC charts and Hot AC reporting panels.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

It's been that way for over 15 years, and you can thank (or blame) LA's KIIS for that.

Check out my reply under your thread 'CHR/Pop needs to play a wide variety of music' for a history lesson regarding CHR/Pop radio's existence and struggles over the past 15-20 years.

Slinky & shocker are both 100% correct; Hot AC (or Adult Top 40) has replaced CHR/Pop as THE mass-appeal format out there since the mid-nineties (1994?), when R&R & BB introduced their Hot AC charts and Hot AC reporting panels.

Can't agree with you here - if Hot AC is the mass-appeal format, why are it's ratings (in general) so incredibly low compared to CHR/pop (except in small markets)?

[atlantaboy]

Sorry - also wanted to point out that the Top 40 chart WAS mass appeal and well-balanced from about the time Alternative Rock was introduced (1993, roughly) to 1999, when many key former Top 40 stations (Q102 Cincinatti, WZPL/Indianapolis) were re-labeled as Hot AC - as someone pointed out on the Hot AC panel, Alanis Morissette didn't even reach #1 on the Hot AC chart until 1999's "Thank U", which obviously was a much smaller hit than "Ironic" "You Learn" "Head Over Feet" etc.

[Slinky]

atlantaboy said:

Sorry - also wanted to point out that the Top 40 chart WAS mass appeal and well-balanced from about the time Alternative Rock was introduced (1993, roughly) to 1999, when many key former Top 40 stations (Q102 Cincinatti, WZPL/Indianapolis) were re-labeled as Hot AC - as someone pointed out on the Hot AC panel, Alanis Morissette didn't even reach #1 on the Hot AC chart until 1999's "Thank U", which obviously was a much smaller hit than "Ironic" "You Learn" "Head Over Feet" etc.

Q and ZPL both had format changes to Hot AC. They weren't just arbitrarily reclassified. Both were heritage stations that were losing badly to their CHR competitors, and so they turned to Hot AC to try and appeal to older demographics. There's never been a mass reclassification of CHRs to Hot AC.

[atlantaboy]

slinky said:

atlantaboy said:

Sorry - also wanted to point out that the Top 40 chart WAS mass appeal and well-balanced from about the time Alternative Rock was introduced (1993, roughly) to 1999, when many key former Top 40 stations (Q102 Cincinatti, WZPL/Indianapolis) were re-labeled as Hot AC - as someone pointed out on the Hot AC panel, Alanis Morissette didn't even reach #1 on the Hot AC chart until 1999's "Thank U", which obviously was a much smaller hit than "Ironic" "You Learn" "Head Over Feet" etc.

Q and ZPL both had format changes to Hot AC. They weren't just arbitrarily reclassified. Both were heritage stations that were losing badly to their CHR competitors, and so they turned to Hot AC to try and appeal to older demographics. There's never been a mass reclassification of CHRs to Hot AC.

Sorry - have to disagree here - Q102 and ZPL ended up with nearly the exact same playlist as Hot AC stations as when they were classified as CHR/Pop - even today, they play just as many CHR/Pop hits as they did in the mid-late 90s when they were labeled as CHR

[Marv]

Slinky is correct again; WZPL, WNCI (Columbus, Oh.), KIIS & WFLZ (Tampa) were all mass-appeal CHR/Pop stations during the eighties with HUGE ratings; that 10.0 which KIIS reached in the fall of 1984 was absolutely mind-blowing, but then CHR/Pop was a true MASS-APPEAL format back then.

When the entire industry noticed what happened in LA two decades ago when KPWR displaced KIIS at #1, top 40 stations stations were then faced with newly launched CHR/Rhythmic stations in market after market, at which time they all either bailed from the format (WZPL evolved into a Hot AC station), remained a mass-appeal powerhouse (WNCI), or loaded up on rhythmic stuff to try and get their teens back, making the station unlistenable for adults and the 'soccer moms' out there who control spending habits in over EIGHTY percent of the nation's households (KIIS).

What KPWR did to KIIS was copied in market after market, and we've all seen the reults; the arrival of 'Smooth Jazz' (KTWV, aka 94.7 The Wave/LA in 1987), the EXPLOSION of country music in 1989 (two words---GARTH BROOKS!!!), and Scott Shannon's 'Pirate Radio' launch here in LA in 1989 all combined to cripple KIIS's pursuit of the adult demo.

But in most other rcities such as San Antonio, Cincinnati, Indy, Tampa and TONS of others, what Power 106 did to KIIS was copied from coast to coast usually with just ONE radio stations as opposed to the SEVERAL which creamed KIIS), with disastrous results for KIIS and the top 40 format in general.

As KPLZ/Seattle Kent Phillips pointed out in last week's issue of R&R regarding the reinvention of his longtime Hot AC station as a 'Hit Hot AC' station, 'Hot AC stations do VERY well in adults 25-54, and are usually top three in WOMEN 25-54'.

'Even with so-so ratings mainly caused by being nicked by format after format (JACK-FM to name one), Hot AC stations make TONS of money and routinely are among the top billing stations in market after market.

He also points out VERY accurately that 'Hot AC was and is the sweet spot for advertisers, delivering core women and adults with an active format that gets results. Even with lower ratings it was a better buy than a solely music-base soft AC, Movin' or JACK. Tha's why, even with often nationwide decling ratings, Hot AC remain top billing stations. His final sentence says it all; 'It's also why many don't flip despite ratings that are HALF of what they were a decade ago'.

It (Hot AC) was according to Phillips, 'THE big format in radio, born out of the split of CHR/Pop radio in the mid-nineties; we OWNED 18-34 year-old females, alternative 18-34 males, and good hot AC stations were top 5 12+, 25-54, 25-54 women, and usually top five in billing (revenue)'.

NONE of that applies to top 40 radio TODAY, and EVERYBODY knows that.

He also pointed out that Hot AC stations also took a hit from AC stations which started playing the likes of Nickelback & Rob Thomas, which took a bite out of the lower end of Hot AC'.

But as I and others pointed out on the 'Happy Birthday to Hot AC' thread on the Hot AC board, KPWR blew a hole in KIIS by swiping all of their teens audience, or a huge portion of them; the same thing happened in Indianapolis (WZPL/WHHH), Cincinnati (Q102/WKFS), San Antonio (KMEL/KBBT), Tampa (WFLZ/?) and TONS of other cities.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

(WZPL evolved into a Hot AC station]

This statement is not correct - Q102 and ZPL "evolved" in name only - if you compare their playlists as Top 40 stations in the LATE 90s with their playlists today, they cater to the same demographic, and play about the same amount of rhythmic material

[tico]

I'm looking at WZPL and WKRQ's playlists and they both are hot AC. WKRQ, however, does spin their top song ("Big Girls Don't Cry") a little more than the average hot AC station. Anyway, both stations may be playing the "same amount of rhythmic material" as they did in the late 90s, but what you don't see on those stations' playlists are rap and heavier hip-hop songs, like "Party Like A Rockstar" and "Buy U A Drink". Also, how many CHRs are playing Mat Kearney and John McLaughlin?

BTW, when did KZZU go hot AC?

[atlantaboy]

tico said:

I'm looking at WZPL and WKRQ's Also, how many CHRs are playing Mat Kearney and John McLaughlin?

CHR/Pop's should be playing Mat Kearney - many mass-appeal CHR/Pop stations played "Nothing Left To Lose" (the Clear Channel Kiss stations didn't), and a bunch are now playing "Undeniable" (WKZL/Greensboro, WSSX/Charleston, WIXX/Greeen Bay, WPST/Trenton) "Undeniable" just went for CHR/Pop adds this past week, and I hope more Top 40 stations add it - the reason it's not rising as fast as it should is b/c stations like WKRQ and WZPL are classified as Hot AC when they should be classified as CHR/Pop - they are active, mass-appeal stations, that play a broader spectrum of music than their CHR counterparts

[EvanJ]

tico said:

BTW, when did KZZU go hot AC?

According to 100000watts, KZZU changed formats on November 7, 2005.

[atlantaboy]

tico said:

I'm looking at WZPL and WKRQ's playlists and they both are hot AC.

WKRQ is spinning Justin Timberlake's "Summer Love" 73x a week, Sean Kingston's "Beautiful Girls" 40x a week, and Justin Timberlake's "Lovestoned" 37x a week - this is not a Hot AC station - it's CHR/Top 40 (good for them if they also play Mat Kearney)!

[atlantaboy]

tico said:

I'm looking at WZPL and what you don't see on those stations' playlists are rap and heavier hip-hop songs, like "Party Like A Rockstar" and "Buy U A Drink".

Playing heavier rap & hip-hop songs never used to be a qualification for CHR/Pop - plenty of CHR/Pop stations don't play "Buy U A Drank" - the reason it's so high on the Pop chart is that those stations that play it play it 105x a week! It's not like they're leaving out Beyonce, Fergie, Rihanna, or the Pussycat Dolls

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

tico said:

I'm looking at WZPL and WKRQ's playlists and they both are hot AC.

WKRQ is spinning Justin Timberlake's "Summer Love" 73x a week, Sean Kingston's "Beautiful Girls" 40x a week, and Justin Timberlake's "Lovestoned" 37x a week - this is not a Hot AC station - it's CHR/Top 40 (good for them if they also play Mat Kearney)!

I still don't believe that having these pop leaning Hot AC's being reclassified as CHR/Pop is the answer. It's less about what they are playing than what they aren't playing. The aforementioned WPLZ and WKRQ are not playing the heavier hip-hop songs as you said. True CHR/Pop stations will always be playing these hip-hop songs. The way to get CHR/Pop stations to become more true to their mission of being mass appeal for the younger generation is for them to add more of the Hot AC product that they are not playing, but at the same time leaving room for the harder hip-hop.

The Hot AC examples you cited, while playing a lot of pop crossover, should stay classified as Hot AC, as they are not playing (nor should they ever be playing) "Party Like A Rockstar", "Buy U A Drink" or "In Da Club". Perhaps I can see WKRQ as an exception, possibly being reclassified as CHR/Pop in that they are so early and very heavy on pop crossover hits, but they seem to be the most extreme. The other Hot AC's you have mentioned should stay classified as Hot AC. Dumping these stations out of the format will not only return the Hot AC format to more of an "alternative lite" sound, but will create a second tier of CHR/Pop stations that will leave that format ripe for fragmentation into more "subformats" in the future.

Nope, I think the answer lies in making certain so-called CHR/Pop stations play more Hot AC crossover material than performing a major reclassification of stations across the board.

[atlantaboy]

musicfanpete said:

atlantaboy said:

WKRQ is spinning Justin Timberlake's "Summer Love" 73x a week, Sean Kingston's "Beautiful Girls" 40x a week, and Justin Timberlake's "Lovestoned" 37x a week - this is not a Hot AC station - it's CHR/Top 40 (good for them if they also play Mat Kearney)!

I still don't believe that having these pop leaning Hot AC's being reclassified as CHR/Pop is the answer. It's less about what they are playing than what they aren't playing. The aforementioned WPLZ and WKRQ are not playing the heavier hip-hop songs as you said. True CHR/Pop stations will always be playing these hip-hop songs. The way to get CHR/Pop stations to become more true to their mission of being mass appeal for the younger generation is for them to add more of the Hot AC product that they are not playing, but at the same time leaving room for the harder hip-hop.

The Hot AC examples you cited, while playing a lot of pop crossover, should stay classified as Hot AC, as they are not playing (nor should they ever be playing) "Party Like A Rockstar", "Buy U A Drink" or "In Da Club". Perhaps I can see WKRQ as an exception, possibly being reclassified as CHR/Pop in that they are so early and very heavy on pop crossover hits, but they seem to be the most extreme. The other Hot AC's you have mentioned should stay classified as Hot AC. Dumping these stations out of the format will not only return the Hot AC format to more of an "alternative lite" sound, but will create a second tier of CHR/Pop stations that will leave that format ripe for fragmentation into more "subformats" in the future.

Nope, I think the answer lies in making certain so-called CHR/Pop stations play more Hot AC crossover material than performing a major reclassification of stations across the board.

I agree completely, except that I don't think a station should have to play heavier R&B to be classified as CHR/Pop - if this is true, than stations should also have to play Matchbox 20 and the Goo Goo Dolls to be classified as CHR/Pop - seems like a double standard

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

musicfanpete said:

I agree completely, except that I don't think a station should have to play heavier R&B to be classified as CHR/Pop - if this is true, than stations should also have to play Matchbox 20 and the Goo Goo Dolls to be classified as CHR/Pop - seems like a double standard

Well, you do make a good point here. And I do agree that stations like WSTR in Atlanta and WNCI in Columbus, two CHR/Pop stations, are essentially the same stations as WKRQ is, a Hot AC reporter. I can see your point. It would just be a shame however to have Hot AC sounding like it did during the Lilith Fair days (not that was necessarily a bad thing), when we now live in a time when adults do like to hear a Justin Timberlake or Rihanna song every so often.

[atlantaboy]

Yeah - I think Hot AC sounds great right now - It's just a shame that in the 2000s you really have to COMBINE CHR/Pop and Hot AC airplay to accurately track the MAINSTREAM airplay success of current songs, whereas in the 80s and 90s, you could just look at the Top 40 chart

[Acid Eyes]

They should do away with the current CHR/Pop chart. Split those stations into either Hot AC or Rhythmic. Then, filter through the Rhythmic stations and send some to Urban. (Songs by Pink, Avril, Nelly Furtado, Justin Timberlake, Fergie, etc. should be Rhythmic. Rap and such should be considered Mainstream Urban.)

Then, create a new Top 40 Tracks composite chart that combines HAC, Rhythmic, and Mainstream Urban.

Of course there always will be overlaps, but the "pop" genre really doesn't mean anything in its current state. "Pop" songs are either heavily influenced by R&B/Hip-Hop (Rhythmic) or by rock (HAC).

[Kid Pulse]

aceticacid said:

They should do away with the current CHR/Pop chart. Split those stations into either Hot AC or Rhythmic. Then, filter through the Rhythmic stations and send some to Urban. (Songs by Pink, Avril, Nelly Furtado, Justin Timberlake, Fergie, etc. should be Rhythmic. Rap and such should be considered Mainstream Urban.)

Then, create a new Top 40 Tracks composite chart that combines HAC, Rhythmic, and Mainstream Urban.

Of course there always will be overlaps, but the "pop" genre really doesn't mean anything in its current state. "Pop" songs are either heavily influenced by R&B/Hip-Hop (Rhythmic) or by rock (HAC).

Yeah, "pop" song don't do very well right now. Not sure Madonna's new song will do very well there when it finally comes out, even if JT produces it or whatever.

When "Wait a Minute" by PCD was released last year, it failed to go top 20 even though it was following up a #1 hit "Buttons" (which had a more urban, hip hop feel to it). Most people claimed "Wait a Minute" flopped because it was way too poppy for pop.

As for the idea of switching some Hot AC stations to pop, that sounds reasonable. Personally, it makes more sense for The Goo Goo Dolls to be blazing than Fergie.

As for Acetic Acid's idea, it sounds like it would work but I don't think it's nessecary. We should all be thankful the charts are like this these days! But that's IMO.

[atlantaboy]

aceticacid said:

They should do away with the current CHR/Pop chart. Split those stations into either Hot AC or Rhythmic. Then, filter through the Rhythmic stations and send some to Urban. (Songs by Pink, Avril, Nelly Furtado, Justin Timberlake, Fergie, etc. should be Rhythmic. Rap and such should be considered Mainstream Urban.)

Completely agree with this idea! Only "CHR/Pop" or "CHR/Top 40" should be the name for the Hot AC stations and mass-appeal CHR/Pop stations - in the 80s and 90s, the term "Top 40" didn't mean "Teen" - it shouldn't now either - just b/c a station caters to adults doesn't mean it's not "Top 40" as long as it plays a high % of current music

[Kid Pulse]

atlantaboy said:

aceticacid said:

They should do away with the current CHR/Pop chart. Split those stations into either Hot AC or Rhythmic. Then, filter through the Rhythmic stations and send some to Urban. (Songs by Pink, Avril, Nelly Furtado, Justin Timberlake, Fergie, etc. should be Rhythmic. Rap and such should be considered Mainstream Urban.)

Completely agree with this idea! Only "CHR/Pop" or "CHR/Top 40" should be the name for the Hot AC stations and mass-appeal CHR/Pop stations - in the 80s and 90s, the term "Top 40" didn't mean "Teen" - it shouldn't now either - just b/c a station caters to adults doesn't mean it's not "Top 40" as long as it plays a high % of current music

But I don't think that's the only problem, do you? I mean "teen" was more like when N'Sync and The Backstreet Boys were core artists, now it's urban music becoming a problem.

Although I understand a very "teen" #1 pop hit from 1997- "MMMBop" by Hanson went top 5 on Hot AC, I think pop is much farther away from Hot AC than it was 10 years ago, because urban is becoming more popular.

[tico]

aceticacid said:

Then, filter through the Rhythmic stations and send some to Urban.

There are a number of urban stations that call themselves rhythmic, when they are really urban stations, like WBHJ Birmingham and Hot 97 in New York.

By the way, here is an article from R&R from their 2007 Conclave in Minneapolis regarding AC and hot AC:

Conclave 2007: What AC & Hot AC Listeners Want

By Keith Berman

Conclave attendees were treated to a research study jointly presented by Jonathan Little of Troy Research and Lou Patrick of Evolution Research in which they surveyed 3,000 AC and hot AC listeners each to get a cross-section of how they feel about the formats and music.

Close to 60% of AC P1s said they were totally satisfied with their favorite radio station, while around 65% said the same on the hot AC side. In what's being called "ultimate customer satisfaction," a loyalty survey that's being done in many different industries, 68% of hot AC P1s are loyal to their favorite stations to the point of recommending them to their friends, while 61% of AC P1s feel the same.

In terms of what listeners want out of their radio stations, both AC and hot AC listeners said that they place most importance on stations that play their favorite music, while entertaining and funny jocks are second-most important. Interestingly, jocks who say little and just play music were rated last with hot AC listeners and second-to-last with AC listeners. Audience members from both formats agreed most strongly with the statement that their favorite station has entertaining jocks, while second on the list is that radio is where they go for new music.

Radio is still extremely important to the listeners they surveyed, being surpassed only by TV in terms of what medium they rate most important. However, while 70% of hot AC listeners and 60% of AC listeners have heard of HD Radio, an amazing 65% said they have no plans whatsoever to buy one. Audiences do seem more willing to participate in being part of a ratings sample when the PPM becomes involved, with as many as 34% of AC listeners and 39% of hot AC listeners saying they'd be very likely to participate when being surveyed with a PPM.

When asked what artists they are most passionate about, both AC and hot AC listeners rated Bon Jovi the highest. In hot AC, the list proceeded with Maroon 5, Rob Thomas and Nickelback; while the other top artists in AC were Elton John, Billy Joel, Michael Buble and Carrie Underwood.

[tico]

musicfanpete said:

atlantaboy said:

I still don't believe that having these pop leaning Hot AC's being reclassified as CHR/Pop is the answer. It's less about what they are playing than what they aren't playing. The aforementioned WPLZ and WKRQ are not playing the heavier hip-hop songs as you said. True CHR/Pop stations will always be playing these hip-hop songs. The way to get CHR/Pop stations to become more true to their mission of being mass appeal for the younger generation is for them to add more of the Hot AC product that they are not playing, but at the same time leaving room for the harder hip-hop.

The Hot AC examples you cited, while playing a lot of pop crossover, should stay classified as Hot AC, as they are not playing (nor should they ever be playing) "Party Like A Rockstar", "Buy U A Drink" or "In Da Club". Perhaps I can see WKRQ as an exception, possibly being reclassified as CHR/Pop in that they are so early and very heavy on pop crossover hits, but they seem to be the most extreme. The other Hot AC's you have mentioned should stay classified as Hot AC. Dumping these stations out of the format will not only return the Hot AC format to more of an "alternative lite" sound, but will create a second tier of CHR/Pop stations that will leave that format ripe for fragmentation into more "subformats" in the future.

Nope, I think the answer lies in making certain so-called CHR/Pop stations play more Hot AC crossover material than performing a major reclassification of stations across the board.

For the most part, I do agree with you, though I don't know how you can make stations play more hot AC material. Do these stations have to play a certain amount of songs on the CHR/pop and/or hot AC chart in order for them to be reclassified?

[Marv]

Not really; stations such as KIIS and WKSC play TONS of the heavy duty rap stuff (50 Cent/Eminem/The Game, etc.) because they are competing with fullblown CHR/Rhythmic stations such as B96 & Power 106 for the 18-34 year old demo, thanks to their corporate bosses.

Z100 in NYC certainly has the same objective, but the fact that 'Before He Cheats' was HUGE there while being ignored by WKSC & KIIS proves to me that Z100 is still trying to be a MASS-APPEAL top 40 station, as WNCI is now and certainly has been for over TWENTY-FIVE years.

Somebody mentioned Boston's WXKS earlier, and I wanted to point out that their PD mentioned in R&R that he would NOT play a song from the likes of Eminem or Nelly until that song had proven itself at their sister CHR/Rhythmic station (Jammin' 99 or something).

That tells me that he was very adamant about KIIS 108 being a mass-appeal CHR/Pop station, something which KIIS gave up on in the late eighties, with the exception of top 40's resurgence in 1997 & 1998.

Hot AC stations CAN and DO play some rhythmic stuff, but they just have to be VERY careful that they don't scare away the 'soccer moms' and other adults who abandoned top 40 radio tospecifically get away from songs such as 'Me So Horny' & 'I Wanna Sex You Up'.

I also agree with golden eagle--you cannot make a top 40 station play more Hot AC music; that would be pointless & asinine.

The fact that Avril is a star at both formats, as are Rob Thomas &
Nickelback is fine, but OTOH, the percentage of music which CHR/Pop stations share with AC stations has never been lower, while the percentage of music which AC & Country stations share continues to rise.

The fact that top 40 radio (and ESPECIALLY those owned by Clear Channel) is chasing the same 18-34 year olds as CHR/Rhythmic & Urban stations are means that top 40 radio has missed out on the chance to play such great songs as 'What Hurts The Most', 'Live Like You Were Dying' & 'Before He Cheats'.

Suffice it to say that in this era of clusterization, if Clear Channel
doesn't want its adult listeners to lsiten to any other format besides Country, AC, Hot AC, Oldies or a couple of other formats, then that's okay too.

But they shouldn't be surprised that the vast majority of their CHR/Pop stations don't have the STUPENDOUS 25-54 numbers which WNCI has enjoyed on an uninterrupted basis for over TWENTY-FIVE years, and that their former flagships such as KIIS aren't NEARLY the same stations that were popular with ALL listeners of all ages & races throughout the eighties.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

Not really; stations such as KIIS and WKSC play TONS of the heavy duty rap stuff (50 Cent/Eminem/The Game, etc.) because they are competing with fullblown CHR/Rhythmic stations such as B96 & Power 106 for the 18-34 year old demo, thanks to their corporate bosses.

Why do you think these stations (especially KIIS and WKSC) are so reluctant to classify themselves as rhythmic? (KIIS has ONE POP/ROCK TRACK on their playlist right now - Maroon 5, and WKSC has TWO - Maroon 5 and Plain White T's) Clearly, these stations are rhythmic - they won't touch Daughtry or Nickelback and that's not being a mainstream Top 40 station - I still like the idea of dividing up the current CHR/Pop stations and classifying them either as rhythmic or Top 40, and including all the active Hot AC stations in the Top 40 panel - why does Clear Channel get to decide how stations are classified by R&R/Mediabase? Clear Channel may THINK their stations are "Top 40" but they're not b/c "Top 40" by definition has always meant "mass-appeal" not "teen 40"

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

marv said:

Not really; stations such as KIIS and WKSC play TONS of the heavy duty rap stuff (50 Cent/Eminem/The Game, etc.) because they are competing with fullblown CHR/Rhythmic stations such as B96 & Power 106 for the 18-34 year old demo, thanks to their corporate bosses.

Why do you think these stations (especially KIIS and WKSC) are so reluctant to classify themselves as rhythmic? (KIIS has ONE POP/ROCK TRACK on their playlist right now - Maroon 5, and WKSC has TWO - Maroon 5 and Plain White T's) Clearly, these stations are rhythmic - they won't touch Daughtry or Nickelback and that's not being a mainstream Top 40 station - I still like the idea of dividing up the current CHR/Pop stations and classifying them either as rhythmic or Top 40, and including all the active Hot AC stations in the Top 40 panel - why does Clear Channel get to decide how stations are classified by R&R/Mediabase? Clear Channel may THINK their stations are "Top 40" but they're not b/c "Top 40" by definition has always meant "mass-appeal" not "teen 40"

Because "Cheap" Channel controls all of the concerts as well. What else is new?

[Hot AC Archiver]

I believe one reason CHR/Pop stations don't want to be classified as Rhythmic is because of advertising revenue. Advertisers may still believe that Pop is more of a mass appeal format than Rhythmic, so they may be more willing to spend their money at Pop.