NY JACK-FM to return to oldies format

[Houster]

On the front page of today's New York Daily News:

New York Don't Know JACK: Within the next few weeks, the station is set to return to its former oldies format, with a full contingent of deejays.

[atlantaboy]

I had a feeling the JACK format was just a "phase" that wouldn't last long - I've noticed a bunch of other "Jack-stations" sounding really Alternative, some more Hot AC, and some pretty close to Adult Alternative (without the current music)

I think it just taught Hot AC a big lesson which is don't leave out songs from the 70s 80s and 90s that listeners still want to hear -

There's even some Alternative stations that have a new "shuffle-em up and see what comes up" feature where they play older "lost" Alternative hits from the 80s and 90s

I think PLJ responded pretty well, playing more hits from the 80s and 90s (70s too, I think - if not, other stations did this like WRQX/Washington and WLNK/Charlotte to keep the Jack format out, and WBMX/Boston still has "whatever" weekends to keep Boston's "Mike" station sounding more like Classic Rock - seems like they drove the Jack-format out of NYC

I think other markets will see similar patterns w/in the next year, and JACK formats will linger in smaller, rural markets (also "poorer" areas - sorry to use that term) where newer music doesn't test as well anyway

[reception]

Jul 7, 2:19 PM EDT
Are Oldies the New Jack on NYC Radio?

By LARRY McSHANE
Associated Press Writer

NEW YORK (AP) -- Everything oldies is new again. WCBS-FM, the nation's No. 1 oldies station for more than three decades until a 2005 switch, is ready to shift from its current "Jack" format and re-embrace the classic sounds of its past, according to online reports.

"If this happens, it will be a fantastic move," said "Cousin Brucie" Morrow, one of the veteran DJs jettisoned when the station swapped formats. "There isn't a day that goes by that people don't come up to me and say, `We miss the station so much.'"

CBS Radio, owner of the station, declined to comment on the much rumored change.

Oldies fans were outraged when WCBS - which began as an oldies station in 1972 - abandoned that music without warning for the jukebox-style "Jack" format June 3, 2005. Frank Sinatra's "Summer Wind" faded out and the Beastie Boys' "Fight for Your Right" announced the drastic changeover.

At the time of the switch, WCBS was eighth in the New York Arbitron ratings. The most recent numbers released, for the January-March period, showed the Jacked-up version of the station sitting in 16th place. The station's revenues had also dropped.

Initial reports about the WCBS format change surfaced Friday in the Radio Business Report online newsletter, and at Crain's New York Business.com. But rumors were floating around earlier in the week.

Morrow said he had no doubt there was a market among New Yorkers for the hits of the '50s, '60s and '70s that once defined the station.

"WCBS-FM was part of the culture of this city," he said. "If people didn't listen every day or every moment, they were happy to know it was there. It was like having an old friend on the radio."

[tico]

atlantaboy said:

I had a feeling the JACK format was just a "phase" that wouldn't last long - I've noticed a bunch of other "Jack-stations" sounding really Alternative, some more Hot AC, and some pretty close to Adult Alternative (without the current music)

I think it just taught Hot AC a big lesson which is don't leave out songs from the 70s 80s and 90s that listeners still want to hear -

There's even some Alternative stations that have a new "shuffle-em up and see what comes up" feature where they play older "lost" Alternative hits from the 80s and 90s

I think PLJ responded pretty well, playing more hits from the 80s and 90s (70s too, I think - if not, other stations did this like WRQX/Washington and WLNK/Charlotte to keep the Jack format out, and WBMX/Boston still has "whatever" weekends to keep Boston's "Mike" station sounding more like Classic Rock - seems like they drove the Jack-format out of NYC

I think other markets will see similar patterns w/in the next year, and JACK formats will linger in smaller, rural markets (also "poorer" areas - sorry to use that term) where newer music doesn't test as well anyway

Jack is not a format. The format is called variety hits or adult hits. Jack is just a brand name, just Kiss is to CHR. Jack probably could've worked in NYC, but putting in place of CBS-FM was a disastrous move. It may've been better received had it been on 102.7 or 92.3.

I don't think variety hits sent a message to hot AC stations. At best, the impact on hot AC has been minimal. In fact, in San Diego, the former Star 100.7 became a Jack station in 2005; their hot AC competitor, KMYI, became stronger, especially when Star's former morning team, Jeff & Jer, jumped to KMYI later that year. In most markets where a variety hits station is ahead of a hot AC (like Seattle, Los Angeles and Nashville), that hot AC may've already been struggling.

There is no hot AC in my market, so Jack kinda serves as a de facto hot AC.

[atlantaboy]

tico said:

atlantaboy said:

I had a feeling the JACK format was just a "phase" that wouldn't last long - I've noticed a bunch of other "Jack-stations" sounding really Alternative, some more Hot AC, and some pretty close to Adult Alternative (without the current music)

I think it just taught Hot AC a big lesson which is don't leave out songs from the 70s 80s and 90s that listeners still want to hear -

There's even some Alternative stations that have a new "shuffle-em up and see what comes up" feature where they play older "lost" Alternative hits from the 80s and 90s

I think PLJ responded pretty well, playing more hits from the 80s and 90s (70s too, I think - if not, other stations did this like WRQX/Washington and WLNK/Charlotte to keep the Jack format out, and WBMX/Boston still has "whatever" weekends to keep Boston's "Mike" station sounding more like Classic Rock - seems like they drove the Jack-format out of NYC

I think other markets will see similar patterns w/in the next year, and JACK formats will linger in smaller, rural markets (also "poorer" areas - sorry to use that term) where newer music doesn't test as well anyway

Jack is not a format. The format is called variety hits or adult hits. Jack is just a brand name, just Kiss is to CHR. Jack probably could've worked in NYC, but putting in place of CBS-FM was a disastrous move. It may've been better received had it been on 102.7 or 92.3.

I don't think variety hits sent a message to hot AC stations. At best, the impact on hot AC has been minimal. In fact, in San Diego, the former Star 100.7 became a Jack station in 2005; their hot AC competitor, KMYI, became stronger, especially when Star's former morning team, Jeff & Jer, jumped to KMYI later that year. In most markets where a variety hits station is ahead of a hot AC (like Seattle, Los Angeles and Nashville), that hot AC may've already been struggling.

There is no hot AC in my market, so Jack kinda serves as a de facto hot AC.

Gotta disagree with you man - I know the format's called "Adult Hits" but it's referred to in R&R and in the industry informally as "the Jack format" - and experts have written over and over about its influence on the declining ratings of Hot AC stations (or disappearance of Hot AC stations) in SOME markets b/c those Hot AC stations were too current-based - a number of Hot AC's actually switched to Adult Hits (or "Jack format") a few years ago - and their ratings shot up - and many other Hot AC's modified their playlists in response to "fear of the Jack format" coming into their market (like WRQX Washington going from "The Best Mix of the 80s 90s today TO The Best Mix of Everything") and many other Hot AC's adding hits from the 70s into their mixes

Anyhow, I think Hot AC will eventually be triumphant, and the disappearance of the "Jack format" in NYC is just an example of that - I guarantee the folks at PLJ are partying right now!!!

In small markets like Jackson MS where "Adult Hits" serves as the Hot AC station (Philadelphia's BEN-FM is actually like that too) it's a whole different story

Oh - the reason Seattle and Nashville aren't good examples is that they have successful Triple A stations in their markets - Nashville doesn't even have a Hot AC station - L. A.'s also doesn't really work as a good example, I think, b/c it has TWO Hot AC stations, which divide the ratings in half :)

[tico]

Nashville does have a hot AC--WVNS 102.5. However, from my understanding, it's not a good station, which is probably why they're doing so poorly. The Music City did have a decent hot AC, Star 97.1, but after WMAK went from oldies to Jack, Star switched to oldies.

I don't doubt that variety hits has had some effect on hot AC. I don't think it's to the effect in which you say it has. In fact, WKIM Memphis recently switched from VH to hot AC, going head-to-head with WMC-FM. At the same time, I don't think the VH format as a whole is going away anytime soon. Just because it didn't work in New York doesn't mean it won't do well elsewhere.

[Crushcrushchris]

I would have liked the concept of Jack if it were more of a currents based Jack.

Top rock songs, hip hop songs, and pop songs in an hour and you never know what you're going to hear in the next hour. It'd be a much wider reach than your typical top 40 station.

To be honest though, I don't think it would have done any better because of the long storied WCBS history. This just feels like a two year stunt.

[Marv]

The 'Adult Hits' format MIGHT have worked in NYC, but blowing up CBS-FM pissed off TONS of NYC baby-boomers who'd been listening to the station for decades.

93.1 JACK-FM (KCBS Los Angeles) has been #1 in adults 25-54 almost since it signed on, and is clearly the most successful Adult Hits station in America.

Star 100.7 San Diego was arguably the most prestigious Hot AC station in the nation; it had been named station of the year on numerous occasions by the folks in the industry in R&Rs annual poll, and PD Tracy Johnson had also been voted PD of the year on at least three occassions.

Several formats, including AC & Alternative, had combined to peck away at Hot AC's phenomenal success in the late nineties, and Phiilips is attempting to re-invent Hot AC and boost the ratings; the format is an absolute cash cow, and even stations with a 2.0 rating (like both Hot ACs here in LA) have no problem making TONS of $$$$$$.

If you get a chance, go on over to www.radio-info.com, select 'SEATTLE' from the 'please select a board destination' drop-down menu, and read my post on page 2 of the 'KPLZ flips' thread for a discussion on Hot AC, JACK, MOVIN' (Seattle appears to be the only market where that format is working), and Phillips strategies for bringing KPLZ (and hopefully the Hot AC format) back to its late nineties glory days as THE format of formats.

[EvanJ]

marv said:

93.1 JACK-FM (KCBS Los Angeles) has been #1 in adults 25-54 almost since it signed on, and is clearly the most successful Adult Hits station in America.

I know KCBS is in a bigger market, but in terms of 12+ rating KCBS doesn't come close to WARH St. Louis.

[tico]

Bob in Austin and Jack in Nashville are doing very well ratings-wise. But for a very large market like Los Angeles, the numbers KCBS is pulling is very good.

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

Gotta disagree with you man - I know the format's called "Adult Hits" but it's referred to in R&R and in the industry informally as "the Jack format" - and experts have written over and over about its influence on the declining ratings of Hot AC stations (or disappearance of Hot AC stations) in SOME markets b/c those Hot AC stations were too current-based - a number of Hot AC's actually switched to Adult Hits (or "Jack format") a few years ago - and their ratings shot up - and many other Hot AC's modified their playlists in response to "fear of the Jack format" coming into their market (like WRQX Washington going from "The Best Mix of the 80s 90s today TO The Best Mix of Everything") and many other Hot AC's adding hits from the 70s into their mixes

Anyhow, I think Hot AC will eventually be triumphant, and the disappearance of the "Jack format" in NYC is just an example of that - I guarantee the folks at PLJ are partying right now!!!

In small markets like Jackson MS where "Adult Hits" serves as the Hot AC station (Philadelphia's BEN-FM is actually like that too) it's a whole different story

Oh - the reason Seattle and Nashville aren't good examples is that they have successful Triple A stations in their markets - Nashville doesn't even have a Hot AC station - L. A.'s also doesn't really work as a good example, I think, b/c it has TWO Hot AC stations, which divide the ratings in half :)

Well, the influence of Jack-FM in Chicago on WTMX was nill at best. The Mix is a well established Hot AC station that just enhilated the heck out of Jack (I don't think it has even broken a 2 share yet!). And the best part of Jack's take over of a heritage oldies station in Chicago is that another frequency flipped to oldies after the change, the ratings have flourished and they hired several of 104.3's old deejays!

I would say it might be a little late for 104.3 to flip back to oldies here in Chicago!

[reception]

From All Access
Latest Update: Mon, July 09, 2007 12:28 PM (PT)

WCBS/N.Y. Goes Classic Hits This Thursday At 1:01p
ALL ACCESS has confirmed that CBS Adult Hits WCBS (101.1 JACK FM)/NEW YORK will return to their legendary Oldies format, being termed a Classic Hits format as featuring the "Greatest Hits Of The '60s, '70s And '80s," on THURSDAY, JULY 12 at 1:01p.

According to a CBS RADIO press release dated JULY 9, the format change from JACK FM to CBS-FM will start with songs from THE BEATLES, MOTOWN and THE BEACH BOYS and feature artists like BILLY JOEL, BRUCE SPRINGSTEEN, ROD STEWART, FRANKIE VALLI and many more.

"Above all else, it is an honor to bring CBS-FM back to NEW YORK," said WCBS VP/GM JENNIFER DONOHUE. "Having been a long time employee and personal fan of the station I truly understand what an emotional moment it was when New Yorkers had to say goodbye to their favorite radio station. We acknowledge and appreciate the loyal fan base who’ve never stopped asking for the format’s return, and now we’re thrilled to be back -- better than before -- with updated features, incredible on-air production, the best combination of legendary NEW YORK personalities, and of course hundreds of ‘The Greatest Hits Of All Time.’

"We firmly believe that as the radio industry moves towards electronic audience measurement, the popularity of the Classic Hits format will experience a resurgence -- not unlike what we’re seeing at our radio station in PHILADELPHIA, WOGL-FM. There’s no denying the mass appeal a station like CBS-FM can have in the market, and hundreds of thousands of listeners won’t be the only ones who benefit from the intimate connection they’ll form with the station. Between the over-the-air product, our online offerings, as well as digital and mobile applications, advertisers will have more choices than ever before to reach this enormous pool of potential customers."

"CBS-FM will be a station that celebrates its past with an updated sound appealing to a whole new generation of listeners on many levels," said CBS-FM PD BRIAN THOMAS. "The role we play in the community and the responsibility we have to our listeners will be treated with respect as we reintroduce the station back into the fabric of the city."

Additionally, DAN TAYLOR has been named as the station’s new morning show host, along with contributors MR. G and AL MEREDITH. BOB SHANNON also marks his return to the station as host of middays and is joined on-air by market staple BROADWAY BILL LEE, who will host afternoon drive.

Meanwhile, JACK FM will be available on-air on CBS-FM's HD 2 channel as well as streamed online at www.ilikejack.com.

[areyoureadytojump]

This sucks!!!!!

[atlantaboy]

areyoureadytojump said:

This sucks!!!!!

I was just wondering (sorry if this comes out wrong) what you like about the JACK-FM format (Adult Hits) so much (Lots of people do also!!) I've just never really met a fan of these stations, and I can see there are lots of them :)

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

areyoureadytojump said:

This sucks!!!!!

I was just wondering (sorry if this comes out wrong) what you like about the JACK-FM format (Adult Hits) so much (Lots of people do also!!) I've just never really met a fan of these stations, and I can see there are lots of them :)

I can help you out on this one. The Jack format promised music from many different genres (I want to say eleven. Where they came up with that number, I don't know), and they also promised so many songs in their library you would not be able to predict what they would play next. Well, 104.3 in Chicago sounds anything but like they promised.

I would consider our version of Jack-FM just another glorified classic rock station with an occasional dance hit thrown in, just so they could say they play different genres. Their mix of music is so heavily skewed toward 70's classic rock and 80's pop that they don't even sound remotely close to a Hot AC. And if you hear a song maybe once every two hours that is less than a year old, well consider yourself lucky! Oh, and one other thing that they may not want you to know: they are extremely repetitive, as I hear some of the same songs being played everyday on some occasions!

At least there is another choice for the "we play anything" crowd in Chicago. Nine-FM (92.5 & 92.7 depending on where one lives) is a suburban "Jack" sounding station that plays many more currents (with even an occasional dance track thrown in), and is more current based in their gold library with about 80% of their playlist consisting of 80's through today music. It actually is a non-reporter to the Mediabase Hot AC panel, but they have also recently have become a hybrid station as they run their Dance Factory show from 9 PM to 4:30 or 5 AM seven nights a week, thus filling a void on the same frequency that used to program a dance format from the previous owners (the previous owners were forced to sell their stations due to poor billing despite earning a 2.0 share from a suburban dance station!). While the history of this frequency is for another thread on another day, this version of the "Jack" format is much more listenable than the official Jack format that signed on about a year after Nine-FM signed on. Still, there are problems with the format as a whole.

We all know that the Jack format was supposed to be "terrestrial" radio's answer to the variety of music played on satellite radio and Ipods. The problem here is that most people prefer their "own" variety of music they program on their own Ipod, and satellite radio's success isn't too hot at the moment. That is why the Jack format will only succeed in markets that don't have a strong Hot AC and/or classic rock station, or in a market like Los Angeles, where as golden eagle stated earlier, they have two Hot AC stations that are barely treading water. But I agree with you atlantaboy, I'm not too big on this format either, and I have a feeling this will go the way of the 80's oldies format or the defunct Jammin' Oldies format.

[Marv]

EvanJ--I know that 'The Arch' in St. Louis has been as high as #2 in the ratings there, behind longtim talk powerhouse KMOX.

But LA has been the MOST closely watched radio market in America for well over FOUR decade, due to the diversity in the audience in terms of race and income, as well as the fact that many staations and many formats which were launched and/or successful here almost immediately spread out across the country within a matter of months.

Between Top 40 (93/KHJ in 1965), alternative legend KROQ, CHR/Pop powerhouse KIIS-FM (1982?) CHR/Rhythmic powerhouse KPWR, aka Power 106 (1986), Smooth Jazz pioneer 94.7 The Wave (1987), Scott Shannon's 'Pirate Radio' (current rock-based format launched in 1989), and KOST's 25+ years as an AC powerhouse (and frequently called 'the most imitated radio station in America') under the brilliant Jhani Kaye, LA has been VITALLY important to the launch, reinvention, popularity or modernizing of most of the radio formats out there.

You can also add onetime Hot AC/alternative leaning powerhouse Star 98.7 (1993), and former Classic Rock phenom KLSX to that list as well.

[atlantaboy]

musicfanpete said:

atlantaboy said:

We all know that the Jack format was supposed to be "terrestrial" radio's answer to the variety of music played on satellite radio and Ipods. The problem here is that most people prefer their "own" variety of music they program on their own Ipod, and satellite radio's success isn't too hot at the moment. That is why the Jack format will only succeed in markets that don't have a strong Hot AC and/or classic rock station

Completely agree! Once enough people have their own IPOD's, why listen to a station that plays "Everything" (considering the fact that most people don't like "everything") - WSMW/Greensboro's ratings shot way up a few years ago when they switched from Modern Hot AC to JACK-format, and I never understood how people could enjoy listening to a Donna Summer disco song followed by Pearl Jam? (I. E. how many people like both Donna Summer and Pearl Jam?) Still, their ratings are pretty high as WKZL (Top 40) started to lean Hot AC and cover most of those songs

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

You can also add onetime Hot AC/alternative leaning powerhouse Star 98.7 (1993),

I never understood how Star 98.7/L. A.'s's ratings could be so low, considering the fact that people in L. A. who like current hits that aren't necesssariliy all rhythmic have nowhere else to go?!

I did notice that KYSR gets higher ratings in suburban markets of L. A. - maybe that's how they manage to stay in business :)

[Marv]

That was the problem with our former country station KZLA; great ratings in Orange County but not-so-great in LA County---at least, not great good enough to please the beancounters at Emmis Broadcasting.

So it flipped to 'MOVIN' 93.9' last August, put Rick Dees in morning drive, and has been essentially irrelevant ever since.

[atlantaboy]

marv said:

That was the problem with our former country station KZLA; great ratings in Orange County but not-so-great in LA County---at least, not great good enough to please the beancounters at Emmis Broadcasting.

So it flipped to 'MOVIN' 93.9' last August, put Rick Dees in morning drive, and has been essentially irrelevant ever since.

Do you think Star 98.7 will last?

And why do you think its ratings are so low? i. e. what station do people in L. A. who like regular pop/rock listen to, since KIIS is essentially rhythmic?

[Slinky]

atlantaboy said:

marv said:

That was the problem with our former country station KZLA; great ratings in Orange County but not-so-great in LA County---at least, not great good enough to please the beancounters at Emmis Broadcasting.

So it flipped to 'MOVIN' 93.9' last August, put Rick Dees in morning drive, and has been essentially irrelevant ever since.

Do you think Star 98.7 will last?

And why do you think its ratings are so low? i. e. what station do people in L. A. who like regular pop/rock listen to, since KIIS is essentially rhythmic?

I think you hit the answer right there. There just aren't that many people in LA who like current pop/rock. Hot AC struggles in the ratings in most major markets because more diverse populations won't listen to Hot AC.

However, in many of those markets the Hot AC sticks around because it bills huge! Hot AC is the "Mercedes-Benz" of radio formats, as one consultant put it. There may not be that many listeners but the ones who do listen have money and are in the demographic that advertisers want most: 25-44 women. That's why a station like PLJ can't get a 2 share but can be one of the top billing stations in New York, and that's why Star 98.7 will be around for years to come even if the ratings aren't there.

[areyoureadytojump]

Jack keeps running commercials saying the old station is coming back with hits from the 60s, 70s and 80s.

Commercial are asking listeners to try to two other stations: Fresh FM (ZZzzzzZZZZzzzzz) and some Rock station, which I have never listened to.

[Walking Contradiction]

YES! Bring on the oldies!

[Marv]

Slinky is 100% correct; Hot AC stations don't have to have huge ratings to make TONS of $$$$, because their listeners which either bailed out and/or started migrating away from top 40 starting in the late eighties and will never go back have TONS of disposable income, and that women 35-44 demo is one of the two or three most wanted demos in all of radio.

[tico]

atlantaboy said:

areyoureadytojump said:

This sucks!!!!!

I was just wondering (sorry if this comes out wrong) what you like about the JACK-FM format (Adult Hits) so much (Lots of people do also!!) I've just never really met a fan of these stations, and I can see there are lots of them :)

I'm a fan of variety hits, mainly because I grew up with a large number of songs played on the format. Of course, not all VH stations are the same. Musicfanpete talked about Nine FM in suburban Chicago. I've listened to them before and they're rather good. In fact, I rather listen to them than Chicago's Jack (which I haven't been that impressed with, for whatever reason).

[musicfanpete]

atlantaboy said:

marv said:

You can also add onetime Hot AC/alternative leaning powerhouse Star 98.7 (1993),

I never understood how Star 98.7/L. A.'s's ratings could be so low, considering the fact that people in L. A. who like current hits that aren't necesssariliy all rhythmic have nowhere else to go?!

I did notice that KYSR gets higher ratings in suburban markets of L. A. - maybe that's how they manage to stay in business :)

Yeah, but did you notice they just added "Umbrella" by Rihanna?! I don't get that one at all! Especially when they are competing directly with their Clear Channel sister station KBIG, a Rhythmic AC. But with their ratings, I guess they have nothing to lose.

[Houster]

"and some Rock station, which I have never listened to"

That would be K-Rock, which recently came back after about two years as mainly talk FREE-FM.

As a fan of more recent rock, I'm glad that K-Rock is back in New York.

[areyoureadytojump]

It's over.

Two of my fave radio stations in NYC have gone off the air in the past 5 months. First Mix 102.7 and now Jack.

Fresh 102.7 is horribe.

[tico]

This is the first original US Jack station--one not using ABC's satellited Jack FM service--to change formats.

[Walking Contradiction]

CBS-FM sounds great so far. It has the energy and personality that's been missing on NYC CBS radio stations for the last couple years. The music mix may be a little different, but let's face it, times have changed. And it's still great to have an outlet for all those 60s pop classics, and to hear that old-time radio sound with those classic jingles again.