KMVN-FM the biggest failure in LA radio history???

[John77]

What you all think?? A 0.8 rating in the latest Arbitrons... not even in the top 30 of the L.A. market... they gave Rick Dees a lot of money and have provided him with a "bean counter researched" format which has done nothing here in this market in it's 10 months of existance...

I guess the next question is when does Emmis drop this format? Obviously, there's a HUGE gaping hole here for a true CHR/Pop station as there was in 1989 when Scott Shannon came over and brought his "Pirate Radio" to L.A... KIIS FM at that time had leaned heavily urban, and corrected itself to become more pop-leaning over that next year to 18 months...

It's basically looking like 1989 again as L.A. is without a true CHR/Pop station... given Dees history with the top 40 format, is it too farfetched to think that Emmis might flip this dying Movin' station????...

[atlantaboy]

I think "Rhythmic AC" was a doomed format from the start - on average, it gains a lot of listeners initially in markets where Hot AC listeners are gettin sick of pop/alternative but eventually most listeners 25-55 (or whatever the cutoff age is) don't wanna hear only Rhythmic songs back to back, esp. in workplaces, etc.

I think it really flopped in L. A. b/c adults in their 20s, 30s, and 40s in that market certainly have never been oversaturated with pop/alternative - if anything they've been oversaturated with rhythmic, leavin IMO no need for a rhythmic AC

[shocker]

Funny you should bring this up about the "Movin" format. Phoenix's Movin' 97.5 isn't high in the ratings either, but it's doing better than L.A.'s station. I think the reason for that is Phoenix hasn't had a true R&B station in many years, and Movin' 97.5 is grabbing some of the R&B audience that has been alienated here.

It's basically looking like 1989 again as L.A. is without a true CHR/Pop station...

Well, L.A. has been without an NFL football team for well over a decade too.

Sorry, but I had to throw that in!!!!

[dth1971]

Maybe KMVN should drop Rick Dees and have Clear Channel and KIIS Los Angeles rehire him for the KIIS morning show and fire Ryan Seacrest from KIIS/Clear Channel and cancel Ryan Seacrest's American Top 40 for good and then Clear Channel could get back the Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 rights and replace the stations carrying AT40 with Rick Dees, just like in 1994 when ABC/Watermark cancelled the old American Top 40 then hosted by Shadoe Stevens and bought the rights to Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 to replace on the remaining AT40 stations with Rick Dees. (But Clear Channel will still keep Casey Kasem's American Top 10 AC and American Top 40 Hot AC shows)

[atlantaboy]

shocker said:

Funny you should bring this up about the "Movin" format. Phoenix's Movin' 97.5 isn't high in the ratings either, but it's doing better than L.A.'s station. I think the reason for that is Phoenix hasn't had a true R&B station in many years, and Movin' 97.5 is grabbing some of the R&B audience that has been alienated here.

Yeah IMO Phoenix is another really strange market...Modern AC used to be huge in the late 90s, when KZZP was a Modern AC and KZON was an Alternative that basically sounded like another Modern AC durin these same years...then in the 00s, everythin shifted and now KZZP is nearly a rhythmic station (not as bad as KIIS, but close IMO), and KMXP is still a pretty conservative Hot AC

Anyhow, I think the Rhythmic AC station in Phoenix might be doin better than the one in L. A. b/c during the later 90s Phoenix (unlike L. A.) was oversaturated with Modern AC, and this still might be a reaction to that -

Another big market that was oversaturated with Modern AC (pop/alternative) during the later 90s was Raleigh NC, where the CHR/Top 40 station WDCG actually turned completely modern AC-sounding for about 3-4 years, while stayin at the top of its market (some of its big hits in the late 90s were "What I Didn't Know" by Athenaeum, "Come Undone" by Cravin' Melon, and almost anythin put out by Edwin McCain - it stayed CHR and dropped all off its rhythmic and even straight pop hits)...even then Hot AC WRAL played almost all pop/alternative - now, like Phoenix, Raleigh has a more successful Rhythmic AC station, while WDCG has transitioned back to mainstream Top 40, and WRAL has transitioned to AC

[shocker]

atlantaboy said:

Yeah IMO Phoenix is another really strange market...Modern AC used to be huge in the late 90s, when KZZP was a Modern AC and KZON was an Alternative that basically sounded like another Modern AC durin these same years

Actually KZZP was classified as a CHR when it switched from KVRY (AC) in 1996, but it definitely leaned heavily modern AC.

KZON was an alternative station for a long time, but became more adult-sounding in the late '90s. In fact, they did officially switch their format to modern AC in 1999. That only lasted a year or so before they flipped back to alternative. I really liked the Zone when it was modern AC. Phoenix hasn't had a true modern AC since.

[John77]

shocker said:

Funny you should bring this up about the "Movin" format. Phoenix's Movin' 97.5 isn't high in the ratings either, but it's doing better than L.A.'s station. I think the reason for that is Phoenix hasn't had a true R&B station in many years, and Movin' 97.5 is grabbing some of the R&B audience that has been alienated here.

It's basically looking like 1989 again as L.A. is without a true CHR/Pop station...

Well, L.A. has been without an NFL football team for well over a decade too.

Sorry, but I had to throw that in!!!!

Yes... by default we have to root for the Chargers though I've always been a Chargers fan - some people still root for the Raiders though.... pretty crazy stuff...

[John77]

dth1971 said:

Maybe KMVN should drop Rick Dees and have Clear Channel and KIIS Los Angeles rehire him for the KIIS morning show and fire Ryan Seacrest from KIIS/Clear Channel and cancel Ryan Seacrest's American Top 40 for good and then Clear Channel could get back the Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 rights and replace the stations carrying AT40 with Rick Dees, just like in 1994 when ABC/Watermark cancelled the old American Top 40 then hosted by Shadoe Stevens and bought the rights to Rick Dees Weekly Top 40 to replace on the remaining AT40 stations with Rick Dees. (But Clear Channel will still keep Casey Kasem's American Top 10 AC and American Top 40 Hot AC shows)

This would never happen... CC burned the bridge with the Dees with how they unceremoniously dumped him...

[Marv]

CC is too addicted to the bottom line to rehire Dees @ KIIS or anywhere else; he was making an estimated $3,000,000 when CC sacked him yet he was tied for eighth in morning drive when he was sacked.

Seacrest has been in the top five in adults 25-54 almost continuously since he took over, and he's even been #1 overall in a couple of books.

He's a huge reason why KIIS was #1 in adults 25-54 in the spring book, and they've gotten many more listeners in both PM drive and at night since Dees left.

KMVN's tank job is undoubtedly the biggest failure in LA radio history; no doubt about it.

Smooth Jazz trailblazer/pioneerKTWV (1987), KQLZ/Pirate Radio (1989) & KYSR aka Star 98.7 (1992) have all had far more success than MOVIN, which has been a disaster since day one.

Although Scott Shannon left Pirate Radio to return to NYC after a mere 22 months here, his arrival here really shook up the market, and longtime heritage AOR-turned Classic Rocker KLOS evn flipped to Modern/Alternative for awhile.

Suffice it to say that MOVIN could be flipped, sold or 'blown up' tomorrow, and nobody would even notice.

[tico]

Could it be that KMVN's failure is a result of replacing L.A.'s only country station and that people are not accepting? Remember in New York, there was a lot of fallout for WCBS-FM changing from oldies to Jack. I could accept that rhythmic oldies may not be that great. I've listened to the one in Memphis and wasn't all that impressed with it.

[threedollafoaholla]

The entire MOViN format, while a novel idea, has been a failure. It's really only had success in Seattle (which has a dance station in C89.5) and San Francisco (which also has a dance station in Energy 92.7), where the market has already shown a tolerance for that style of radio station in the past. Jacksonville, Los Angeles, St. Louis, etc, have all been failures.

[atlantaboy]

threedollafoaholla said:

The entire MOViN format, while a novel idea, has been a failure. It's really only had success in Seattle (which has a dance station in C89.5) and San Francisco (which also has a dance station in Energy 92.7), where the market has already shown a tolerance for that style of radio station in the past. Jacksonville, Los Angeles, St. Louis, etc, have all been failures.

Seattle and San Fran are also prob. the two markets with the highest % Asian populations in the country and this is the demographic I'm almost sure is biggest with dance (non-rap)

[John77]

atlantaboy said:

threedollafoaholla said:

The entire MOViN format, while a novel idea, has been a failure. It's really only had success in Seattle (which has a dance station in C89.5) and San Francisco (which also has a dance station in Energy 92.7), where the market has already shown a tolerance for that style of radio station in the past. Jacksonville, Los Angeles, St. Louis, etc, have all been failures.

Seattle and San Fran are also prob. the two markets with the highest % Asian populations in the country and this is the demographic I'm almost sure is biggest with dance (non-rap)

... and yet we are told time & again by those that work in the industry that the bean counters that make these decisions are know it alls. :)