The Virgins "Rich Girls"

[busyboy]

Another post-punk influenced band from New York City. They released their s/t debut on Atlantic Records last month, while the song goes for adds on 8/19. I really like it.

youtube.com/watch?v=x3HygQM8HNQ

[Nevermind]

Oooh interesting that this was the song Nate was listening to on his ipod! :o Nice song.

[oscillations.]

God, this song is ancient. For whatever reason, the entire NYC fashion scene was obsessed with this tune about 8 months ago.

[jazklash]

So it means that, even 8 months ago, the NYC fashion scene's musical sensibility was seven or six years behind the times at least!

And seriously, the way both The OC and Gossip Girl have turned indie into this sort of aspirational class-based accessory - and choosing the dullest, most SFW music of that spectrum to boot - is not something I'm watching with glee.

[oscillations.]

The only reason the NYC fashion bubble cared was because they kept playing at the fashion parties and art galleries everyone was attending, so they just got used to having them around. And last summer, they opened for the Long Blondes and caused a minor stir. Everyone is into MGMT now, anyway. Which is weird.

[busyboy]

Jul 27, 2008 8:35:46 GMT -5 jazklash said:

And seriously, the way both The OC and Gossip Girl have turned indie into this sort of aspirational class-based accessory - and choosing the dullest, most SFW music of that spectrum to boot - is not something I'm watching with glee.

Yeah, indie rock has become the content provider of such shows, and it kinda sucks in a way. On the other hand, though, it's the only way these bands have to break into the mainstream (besides Apple's commercials... ), since rock radio is still stuck in 2000/2001 mode. I mean, internet buzz and word of mouth can only take you this far, 99% of the time.

[jazklash]

Jul 27, 2008 13:43:37 GMT -5 oscillations. said:

The only reason the NYC fashion bubble cared was because they kept playing at the fashion parties and art galleries everyone was attending, so they just got used to having them around. And last summer, they opened for the Long Blondes and caused a minor stir. Everyone is into MGMT now, anyway. Which is weird.

Bottom line: The Virgins = the poor man's Phoenix/Tahiti 80/Benny Sings/etc. Or, in other words: been there, done that, bought the T-shirt, threw it away. A long-ass time ago.
And the bubble factor? It's the same everywhere. ;) And that includes the MGMT infatuation too! - by the way, MGMT =

[jazklash]

Jul 27, 2008 16:58:05 GMT -5 @busyboy said:

Jul 27, 2008 8:35:46 GMT -5 jazklash said:

And seriously, the way both The OC and Gossip Girl have turned indie into this sort of aspirational class-based accessory - and choosing the dullest, most SFW music of that spectrum to boot - is not something I'm watching with glee.

Yeah, indie rock has become the content provider of such shows, and it kinda sucks in a way. On the other hand, though, it's the only way these bands have to break into the mainstream (besides Apple's commercials... ), since rock radio is still stuck in 2000/2001 mode. I mean, internet buzz and word of mouth can only take you this far, 99% of the time.

I think my biggest problem with this exploitation of sorts is really the fact that most of the chosen music being nothing more than MOR-lite disguised as indie. I mean, let's face it: Death Cab For Cutie's music nowadays is nothing more than aural comfort for pseudo-sophisticates. And I'm mentioning Death Cab For Cutie as much as I could be mentioning Matt Pond PA, Aqualung or some other coffee-shop favorites.

[Nicholas2.0]

Jul 27, 2008 8:35:46 GMT -5 jazklash said:

And seriously, the way both The OC and Gossip Girl have turned indie into this sort of aspirational class-based accessory - and choosing the dullest, most SFW music of that spectrum to boot - is not something I'm watching with glee.

Oh my god, that really hits the nail on the head (in addition to heaps of critical praise for stuff that I never get to hear and am usually bored by if/when I do) for why I'm usually pre-biased against "indie rock." The whole aspirational class thing. This concept was right in front of me for years and it took you to define it for me just now.

[oscillations.]

Yeah, but it is a relatively new and corporately mandated development that indie rock now is associated with the privileged classes. It's become germane to the iPod generation.
"Indie" is gentrified, just like everything else. Call it the white collar blues.


Like most music, indie has working class roots, although the intentions were always to strive for a higher minded discourse, than say, punk rock (which was pure vitriol). A big part of the appeal of the indie lifestyle to onlookers is the noble asceticism of the starving artists. And for awhile, there was a legitimacy to that plight. But now, just as in all art-related media, many of the "starving artists" are actually just legacy children using their parents' trust fund to pay for a loft in NYC/London/Silver Lake and parrot backwhat they imagine is "relative deprivation". Who do you think attends art schools? Mainly very well off students who can afford to dabble in a hobby/profession that is extremely UNlucrative. And some of them make good art; many don't (same as everyone else). I for one believe a little desperation goes a long way, but I also believe that the term "dire straights" has many contexts. Plenty of inspiring conceptual art has been made by those who do not suffer economically; but they had sharp, active minds that - if not tormented - were at were at least discontent to oblige to the status quo. And their art bespoke an essence unrelated to money or class, so it "worked".

The same goes for music.
The nature of the ideas and intentions an artist brings to forefront inherently determines whether or not they can pull it off convincingly (but this is entirely subjective). Admittedly, it's hard not to be skeptical of a group that sings of social or class distress that they never personally experienced. However, on the flip side of the lyrical complaint spectrum, singing about depression and/or completely private trauma is universal. You can be economically solvent yet miserable. And no one should judge that.

It is generally true that music (and art) comes from a place of want, not contentment. What is the nature of that want? It will vary. But if rich kids want to play Tom Verlaine riffs, who are we to stop them? And if you don't include the artmarker's biographical roots as acceptable grounds for judgement of their work (and really, why should you?), then the art, should it hold up on its own, should not register as false. Unless of course, the listener/viewer has their OWN agenda.



**NOT TO SAY ALL INDIE ROCK IS BASED IN MISERY, EVEN THOUGH IT ALMOST ALWAYS IS. **
And Twee pop = lithium laced ice cream.

[busyboy]

^ Awesome post.

Jul 27, 2008 17:29:52 GMT -5 jazklash said:

And the bubble factor? It's the same everywhere. ;) And that includes the MGMT infatuation too! - by the way, MGMT =

Eeeeeeeekkkk! Let a boy have his few one album wonders each year, will ya? ;)

[Pipa]

Wow, I think I just found a representation of every Pitchfork-loving indie aficionado on the internet right in this very thread.

[Deleted]

Wow, I've been wondering for months who sang this song! It's pretty catchy.

[jazklash]

Jul 28, 2008 13:33:54 GMT -5 oscillations. said:

Like most music, indie has working class roots

Actually, it's one of the few instances in the history of popular music where a music's social roots are much more middle class-based than anything. For example, out of Joy Division, only Peter Hook had genuine working class roots. The Buzzcocks were all middle class boys who directed their entrepreneurial spirit towards championing punk rock and their ilk. Even Tony Wilson (who came from Salford, just like Peter Hook) had a background which wasn't decidedly working class.
I could go on here. Gang Of Four, for example, may have had Marxist leanings in their discourse, but they were also well-to-do middle class boys. Andy Partridge's father was an army major (not exactly high class, but decidedly NOT working class either, even if he lived in a council estate). Morrissey was your typical angst-ridden middle class boy who had to endure the fact that he lived in a predominantly working class environment.
In America, you had Sonic Youth, who all come from well-to-do families. Most of guys in Black Flag and Dead Kennedys also came from stable backgrounds. I believe even most of the guys in R.E.M. had well-to-do backgrounds, bar Mike Mills (I actually remember a story he once told how he decided to do his hair like Patti Smith, but ended up, "as always, looking like the morons from the suburbs", and how he had a full line of people waiting to beat the s**t out of him the next day! )

And then you have a lot of electronic music, which also has a strong middle-to-upper class root. Kraftwerk were obviously posh boys. The techno pioneers were upper middle class Detroit boys who looked to Euro synth-pop as an ideal of sophistication to distance themselves from the working class hooligans who predominantly listened to funk, R&B and the first vestiges of hip-hop.

PS: I almost forgot: even punk rock luminaries The Clash were middle class boys living out their working class fantasies, as Bob Geldof himself repeatedly pointed out throughout the years.

PS 2: Oh, and that part about The Strokes playing Television riffs? Television themselves weren't exactly coming from families who always had to make ends meet every time their boss cashed their checks every half-month.

[oscillations.]

Jul 27, 2008 13:43:37 GMT -5 oscillations. said:

The only reason the NYC fashion bubble cared was because they kept playing at the fashion parties and art galleries everyone was attending, so they just got used to having them around. And last summer, they opened for the Long Blondes and caused a minor stir. Everyone is into MGMT now, anyway. Which is weird.

What did I say? The dovetailing of the two worlds never stops.
www.suprememanagement.com/being/?cat=17

[jazklash]

Come on, don't try and brush my reply off! You know you've just been PWNED!

[oscillations.]

How? I read your post. I just wasn't sure if there was really any need to respond to it.

[jazklash]

How? By proving you wrong, stating facts. That's how!

;)

Cheeky, cheeky, baby! You should have known by now how I just like to wind you up.

PS: But the facts I stated in my post are true. Never let it be thought otherwise!

[oscillations.]

Okay, upon reflection, I should have used a less specific term, something else vaguely synonymous with "not particularly privileged" (which none of them were. Plus, to me the idea of "working class" is a VERY broad one, but maybe I needed to consider how others perceive its implications). But anyway, I was just thinking out loud (it's a forum)! The rest of my argument is salient.

And yes, you wind me up, Ricardo. Stefani style.

[jazklash]

Jul 30, 2008 11:10:24 GMT -5 oscillations. said:

Okay, upon reflection, I should have used a less specific term, something else vaguely synonymous with "not particularly privileged" (which none of them were. Plus, to me the idea of "working class" is a VERY broad one, but maybe I needed to consider how others perceive its implications). But anyway, I was just thinking out loud (it's a forum)! The rest of my argument is salient.

I'm not particularly surprised. After all, you come from a place where "not particularly privileged" probably means "can only afford basic cable". ;)
Well, my dad is a skilled metalworker (he's now a section manager), and my mom has been, for the most part, a cleaning lady. Howsabout that for proper working class credentials?

[Mic Technique]

LMFAO.

This thread is amazing, really.

[oscillations.]

Here's the NEW video.
It's only interesting because Behati Prinsloo is in it (and she can't save it, either).

[jazklash]

Aug 1, 2008 13:32:34 GMT -5 Mic Technique said:

LMFAO.

This thread is amazing, really.

"Go, Virgins!"
"Get that smash!"
"FLOP!"
"X amount of spins as of today"

Aaaahhhh, everything is restored to its normality now!