Cumulus Programming

[atlantaboy]

Hey not that there's anything wrong with this (kinda likin it actually), but just wonderin what you all think...

Cumulus really is jumpin on pop/rock songs and havin almost all their CHRs and HACs add them (basically at the same time)...at first it was just with Rob Thomas and Matchbox 20 recurrents, but just in the past couple weeks a whole lot of Cumulus CHRs have added O. A. R. "Shattered" and Duffy "Warwick Avenue" right out of the box (songs that basically no other CHRs were adding, at least not yet)

It almost seems like semi-satellite programming to me...not complainin that they're giving these songs a chance on CHR though lol

[tico]

If you believe those who say so, Cumulus stations' playlists are corporatized.

[Slinky]

Cumulus CHR programming is very centralized, with one man, Jan Jeffries, making many of the music decisions. Supposedly, PDs get some input on the process, but many on the message boards have indicated that Jeffries makes the final call.

There are pluses, such as the rise of songs like Shattered, but lets take a hard look at the negatives: Metro Station is #4 in the country and completely ignored by any Cumulus station. If you ask me, I'd much rather have a CHR that plays "all the hits", rather than a station that is manipulated to ignore some of the big ones.

I'd also rather have some semblance of local control. Say what you want about Clear Channel, but the fact remains that their CHRs are very targeted to the markets they serve- Z100 doesn't sound like KIIS which doesn't sound like WNCI, etc. Cumulus is the only company in radio that I can't say anything positive about.

[atlantaboy]

Aug 13, 2008 0:49:01 GMT -5 Slinky said:

but lets take a hard look at the negatives: Metro Station is #4 in the country and completely ignored by any Cumulus station.

Wow that's ridiculous lol...how could Shake It be gettin negative callout in every Cumulus market (esp. if they only have one CHR that's completely ridiculous IMO)

Still good for Rob Thomas though and O. A. R. lol

BTW Cumulus owns a bunch of CHRs in Georgia (Albany, Columbus, Q100/Atlanta) and I can't tell the difference between them... (tons of Matchbox Twenty/Rob Thomas recurrents, new O. A. R., lean Hot AC, etc.)

[EvanJ]

I don't know of any Cumulus CHR-Pop stations anywhere near me in the New York City area, but I get WEBE 107.9, an AC station owned by Cumulus that's Number 1 in the Bridgeport, CT ratings.

[musicfanpete]

I never thought I would see the day when another company's music is more corporatized than Clear Channel's! Clear Channel learned a hard lesson when they realized that a "national" playlist won't work on a local station. Their ratings and revenue proved that. Now Clear Channel's stations are more diversified and local, and the ratings show that, WKSC in Chicago being a great example.

Cumulus now has to learn that a national playlist only works on satellite radio where their listeners are the ones who don't like "terrestrial" radio. Granted, I personally like Cumulus's playlists better with their more adult leaning sound, but certain songs don't work in certain markets, and they need to learn that. Otherwise, their ratings will tank just like Clear Channel's did.

[atlantaboy]

Aug 20, 2008 9:15:17 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Cumulus now has to learn that a national playlist only works on satellite radio where their listeners are the ones who don't like "terrestrial" radio. Granted, I personally like Cumulus's playlists better with their more adult leaning sound, but certain songs don't work in certain markets, and they need to learn that. Otherwise, their ratings will tank just like Clear Channel's did.

Only thing is...Cumulus's CHR ratings are doin really well (at least the ones I could find...)

KRBE/Houston - 4.8 rating (beating out new CHR there)
WWWQ/Atlanta - only a 2.8 rating, but caught up with WSTR
WHOT/Youngstown - 5.1 rating (beating out other CHR)
WHHY/Montgomery - 5.0 rating
KQLK/Lake Charles, LA - 7.1 rating
KKCT/Bismarck - 7.9 rating
KBEA/Quad Cities - 6.7 rating

Most of their CHRs are in small markets...maybe that's why they can get away with centralized programming - they do have a station in Albany GA that's tankin though (1.5 rating I think lol)

[Slinky]

Houston is the one to watch. KRBE has a lot of heritage as a great CHR, but they just sound bad right now. I could see Hot 95.7 taking over in a year or so.

[threedollafoaholla]

Aug 20, 2008 10:28:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Aug 20, 2008 9:15:17 GMT -5 musicfanpete said:

Cumulus now has to learn that a national playlist only works on satellite radio where their listeners are the ones who don't like "terrestrial" radio. Granted, I personally like Cumulus's playlists better with their more adult leaning sound, but certain songs don't work in certain markets, and they need to learn that. Otherwise, their ratings will tank just like Clear Channel's did.

Only thing is...Cumulus's CHR ratings are doin really well (at least the ones I could find...)

KRBE/Houston - 4.8 rating (beating out new CHR there)
WWWQ/Atlanta - only a 2.8 rating, but caught up with WSTR
WHOT/Youngstown - 5.1 rating (beating out other CHR)
WHHY/Montgomery - 5.0 rating
KQLK/Lake Charles, LA - 7.1 rating
KKCT/Bismarck - 7.9 rating
KBEA/Quad Cities - 6.7 rating

Most of their CHRs are in small markets...maybe that's why they can get away with centralized programming - they do have a station in Albany GA that's tankin though (1.5 rating I think lol)

KRBE/Houston - was a great station under Susquehanna, prior to Cumulus buying that company. KRBE survives today because of their heritage, but I have a feeling that those days may be coming to an end. Remember, KKHH has only been on the air for a couple months or so. It has not had time to make a significant impact, in my opinion. I'd give it another three months or so before making any kind of call about which station is better.

WWWQ/Atlanta - a solid station, talent-wise (except for one jock on that station who I do not like on a personal level). Their playlist needs work, but when you have Star 94 basically sounding like a Hot AC (outside of nights), it's pretty easy to be the Cumulus brand of "CHR" and make an impact.

WHOT/Youngstown - another heritage radio station (50+ years, if you go back to when the format was on AM) that Cumulus hasn't done much with. The morning show, while legendary in the market and two folks that I have the utmost respect for, is a Hot AC show anymore. The rest of the talent on the radio station, except for the night guy / PD, has no business being on the air. WHOT wins because of a much weaker-signaled Clear Channel CHR across the street. If WAKZ had the signal that WHOT does, the talent and music on WAKZ would destroy WHOT, hands down.

None of the other stations that you mentioned have direct competition so of course they are going to be doing well... where else is a CHR listener in their markets going to go to?

To the poster that made the comment about CC and "centralized playlists," take it from someone who has previously programmed for Clear Channel... The "centralized playlist" NEVER EXISTED. Let me repeat that, I was NEVER TOLD WHAT TO PLAY by anyone. When you have that many radio stations all of the same format, it's pretty much inevitable that they are all going to sound reasonably similiar when the format is CHR. Just because the KISSFM brand name was on so many of them, that does not mean that they were "cookie cutter."

[atlantaboy]

Aug 30, 2008 14:46:00 GMT -5 @threedollafoaholla said:

Aug 20, 2008 10:28:39 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

Only thing is...Cumulus's CHR ratings are doin really well (at least the ones I could find...)

KRBE/Houston - 4.8 rating (beating out new CHR there)
WWWQ/Atlanta - only a 2.8 rating, but caught up with WSTR
WHOT/Youngstown - 5.1 rating (beating out other CHR)
WHHY/Montgomery - 5.0 rating
KQLK/Lake Charles, LA - 7.1 rating
KKCT/Bismarck - 7.9 rating
KBEA/Quad Cities - 6.7 rating

Most of their CHRs are in small markets...maybe that's why they can get away with centralized programming - they do have a station in Albany GA that's tankin though (1.5 rating I think lol)

KRBE/Houston - was a great station under Susquehanna, prior to Cumulus buying that company. KRBE survives today because of their heritage, but I have a feeling that those days may be coming to an end. Remember, KKHH has only been on the air for a couple months or so. It has not had time to make a significant impact, in my opinion. I'd give it another three months or so before making any kind of call about which station is better.

WWWQ/Atlanta - a solid station, talent-wise (except for one jock on that station who I do not like on a personal level). Their playlist needs work, but when you have Star 94 basically sounding like a Hot AC (outside of nights), it's pretty easy to be the Cumulus brand of "CHR" and make an impact.

WHOT/Youngstown - another heritage radio station (50+ years, if you go back to when the format was on AM) that Cumulus hasn't done much with. The morning show, while legendary in the market and two folks that I have the utmost respect for, is a Hot AC show anymore. The rest of the talent on the radio station, except for the night guy / PD, has no business being on the air. WHOT wins because of a much weaker-signaled Clear Channel CHR across the street. If WAKZ had the signal that WHOT does, the talent and music on WAKZ would destroy WHOT, hands down.

None of the other stations that you mentioned have direct competition so of course they are going to be doing well... where else is a CHR listener in their markets going to go to?

Yeah everything you said is def. true - but I wrote all that to point out that there's no evidence (or even trends) that Cumulus' centralized programming is weakining its stations...

KRBE has had a Cumulus centralized playlist for years now, and its ratings are still through the roof (even with a new challenger comin in)

Also not sure what u mean about WWWQ/Atlanta - they actually sound even more Hot AC durin the day than Star 94 does, and the two stations are runnin neck in neck

And not sure about the signal deal in Youngstown, but the centralized playlist def. isn't hurtin WHOT

Not sayin that Cumulus should be doin the centralized playlist thing...just sayin that there's no evidence anywhere that it's hurtin the stations

[Minor Scratch]

I wouldn't mind having a Cumulus CHR station in my market, as long as there was a Clear Channel one to go along with it.

[banks]

Threedolla, just to correct you... peashooter WAKZ typically beats WHOT in the demos that count, 18-34F. Hot has a very large 25-54 audience. WMXY is much more their competition than WAKZ. WAKZ deals more with CHR/Rhy WRBP 101.9 than WHOT in the CHR demo.

I read on radio info about a couple Cumulus CHR markets where out of market sticks boom in parts of them (Sioux Falls, SD with KKCK/Marshall, Minn. booming in and Waterloo, Iowa has KZIA/Cedar Rapids booming in), but those don't count.

Clear Channel has never had a centralized playlist, or at least the cluster I work at ;)

[threedollafoaholla]

Considering that I've worked for both Youngstown CHRs, I'm well aware of the ratings situation. I was quoting the numbers that 98% of this board can see, the 12+.

[atlantaboy]

Aug 30, 2008 19:13:50 GMT -5 banks said:

Threedolla, just to correct you... peashooter WAKZ typically beats WHOT in the demos that count, 18-34F.

Just curious why 18-34 F is the "demo that counts" - right now, WHOT has a 5.1 rating share and WAKZ has a 3.1 rating share...I'd much rather be in WHOT's position, no matter what their core demo is - plus middle-aged listeners typically bring in more revenue than teen/young 20s listeners anyway, so not sure what WAKZ has to brag about...

[banks]

25-54, more specifically 25-54 women, is the most lucrative demographic for advertisers...also known as the money demo. It's the target demo for country, AC, oldies...er classic hits, etc. 18-34 females is the target demographic for mainstream CHR (adult leaning CHRs tend to skew up to 44.)

To keep things simple for non-radio folks on this board... 18-34 has the most disposable income of any generation ever. Yes, there's more money spent on 25-54...but why divide a pie that's currently 6-8 pieces even further when you can win more money available from a pie with 2-3 slices.

Z100 and KIIS are both some of the top billing stations in the US.

[atlantaboy]

^Yeah not really gettin what ur sayin about WHOT vs. WAKZ then...if WHOT leans adult and appeals to 18-44, while WAKZ just appeals to 18-34, I'd much rather be WHOT in terms of total billing (esp. cause it's ratings are so much higher, and it's appealing to a wider audience) - no matter what you label WHOT or WAKZ (teen CHR, adult CHR, etc.), WHOT is currently a much more successful station

Z100 and KIIS are def. two of the highest billing stations in the U. S., but they basically get that handed to them cause their markets have 10 times the population of most other markets...if their Hot AC's disappeared, and they started appealin to 18-44 demo, they'd be billing even higher

[banks]

Sept 2, 2008 15:20:14 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

^Yeah not really gettin what ur sayin about WHOT vs. WAKZ then...if WHOT leans adult and appeals to 18-44, while WAKZ just appeals to 18-34, I'd much rather be WHOT in terms of total billing (esp. cause it's ratings are so much higher, and it's appealing to a wider audience) - no matter what you label WHOT or WAKZ (teen CHR, adult CHR, etc.), WHOT is currently a much more successful station

Z100 and KIIS are def. two of the highest billing stations in the U. S., but they basically get that handed to them cause their markets have 10 times the population of most other markets...if their Hot AC's disappeared, and they started appealin to 18-44 demo, they'd be billing even higher

Basically what I said is that you can make more money with 18-34 than 25-54 since you compete with less stations in that demo.

Both KIIS and Z100 both do well in the 25-54 demo as well as the target 18-34 demo.

I don't know about the billing situation on WAKZ vs. WHOT but I'm assuming that Hot AC WMXY is outbilling them (they are beating Hot in 25-54 I believe.) Even if Hot 101 was on the Hot AC panel (they don't have to do much... just adjust what they play at night), it wouldn't be a very good Hot AC IMO.

[Diablo Cody™]

Yeah, my local station is a cumulus station. It sucks. I hear Gavin Rossdale's "Love Remains The Same" every hour and a half and it isn't even Top 50 yet.

O.A.R. and Duffy are pretty played out for me too, I'm tired of both!

My station doesn't play Rob Thomas recurrents. Maybe like once a week. I only heard a Rob Thomas song like once in the past, 3 months?

Cumlus stations completely ignore the "teen" pop. i.e. Metro Station, Miley Cyrus, Paramore, Good Charlotte, We The Kings, etc.

My station isn't even on Secondhand Serenade yet! And it's Top 10!

They never added Metro Station until recently. But it's not in their top 30. I hear it on the Top 5 most requested A LOT. I think our program director is trying to fool Jan Jeffries by playing it, but not mentioning it on the station's website.

My station also never played "Misery Business" or "Dance Floor Anthem" when they were popular, but played them when they went recurrent. I hear them both A LOT now. It's weird.

Bottom line: Cumulus sucks!

[atlantaboy]

^Yeah...thing is though ATL's two CHRs combined still beat out the one Rhythmic station...neither one wants to give up the soccer moms (and families) with tons of $$$

Pretty sure ATL's the only really large city w/o a Hot AC station (except Philly), so both CHRs are "coverin" those HAC currents and recurrents

Don't really mind that much that Q100 leaves out Shake It and That's What You Get cause Star 94 plays those songs, but neither one (I think) is playin Let It Rock (at least not yet)

[Sir Benji]

I hate Cumulus with a passion >:( >:( they've driven our veteran CHR KRBE through the mud the only reason it's ratings are still high imo is that listeners are loyal heck, i still listen to it for HAC-leaning type songs since KKHH is rhythmic-leaning so i guess it works but i hope cumulus will learn that the whole same playlist for every station thing does not work oh and the thing about Metro Station earlier in the thread KRBE added it after it went Top 10 but i'm positive that was the PD's decision and not Jeffries

[atlantaboy]

[quote author=radioguru979 board=radio thread=62922 post=1814085 time=1223925223And it's also sad that Atlanta & Philly have tha same issue of not having a Hot AC station
[/quote]

Yeah huge difference though IMO...In Philly it's practically impossible to hear Hot AC-type songs (anywhere), and in ATL it's practically impossible to hear Rhythmic/Urban songs (on CHR) - kinda seems more like Philly can't keep a HAC station (everytime they try it lasts half a year or so)...ATL can't fit in a HAC station cause both its CHRs lean HAC

It's almost like Philly and ATL are opposite ends of the musical spectrum...

[atlantaboy]

^Yeah still not sure why Star 94 doesn't at least play some rhythmic stuff at night - they do usually wait until songs are in the Top 40 to play them though (i. e. can't hear Broken by Lifehouse, Come On Get Higher, etc. cause they haven't gone for CHR adds)

I'd def. say Philly's worse though, cause Q102 is ridiculously selective in what songs they play, and they play their currents somethin like 110x a week - and there's no other alternative up there, except stations outta Delaware or Jersey

[Marv]

CHR/Pop isn't the adult-friendly format that it used to be during the seventies and eighties, as evidenced by the fact that 100+ stations have bailed out of the format since the mass exodus from the format triggered by KPWR replacing KIIS @ #1 in LA after barely nine months on the air bega in 1987.

The number of top 40 stations which get exceptional 25-54 numbers these days is substantially smaller than it was twenty years ago as well; WNCI/Columbus has no peer in that regard.

CHR/Pop stations routinely and very obssessively chase the same 18-34 demos (adults and women) as their local CHR/Rhythmic competition; the fact that CHR/Pop has blown off millions of adult listeners over the past two decades by copying that disastrous straegy initiated by KIIS in 1987 shouldn't surprise anyone either.

Country's target demo was adjusted to women 35-44 in 1996 after the passage of the Telecommunications Act, according to a Lon Helton column in R&R in 2006; granted the TSL numbers for the format aren't what they used to be, but it remains the most listened-to format in the nation, a distinction it's held since 1992.

The Houston CHR/Pop race between KRBE & KKHH bears watching closely; Cumulus's KRBE has added lots of rhythmic stuff since KKHH signed on, and I hope that they don't overreact as badly and disastrously as KIIS did, although it appears that they may have already done so.

The winter PPM for Houston should be quite interesting.

[atlantaboy]

Oct 31, 2008 10:12:34 GMT -5 Marv said:

CHR/Pop isn't the adult-friendly format that it used to be during the seventies and eighties.

Gotta keep in mind though IMO there was no such thing as Hot AC in the 70s and 80s, so CHRs had to cover all new music

WNCI's doin really well, but there are lots of other CHRs with strong 25-54 numbers...WDGC/Raleigh, WXLK/Roanoke, WKZL/Greensboro, WSTW/Wilmington, WKRZ/Wilkes-Barre, etc. (most of these stations though are in markets without HAC's)

[atlantaboy]

Oct 31, 2008 10:12:34 GMT -5 Marv said:

Cumulus's KRBE has added lots of rhythmic stuff since KKHH signed on, and I hope that they don't overreact as badly and disastrously as KIIS did, although it appears that they may have already done so.

The winter PPM for Houston should be quite interesting.

Yeah - WNKS/Charlotte was almost Hot AC before WIBT signed on as a Rhythmic station in '04 I think...same with WRVW/Nashville before "The Party" signed on initially in the late 90s - so wouldn't be surprised if KRBE did the same thing (esp. since Houston has a pretty strong HAC station that's pretty current-focused I think)

[botoxic]

This week I noticed that several CHR stations reported the exact same adds:
Keri Hilson "Knock You Down" and
Kings of Leon "Use Somebody"

Surprise, surprise - they're all Cumulus stations:
KBEA Davenport
KKCT Bismarck
KMCK Fayetteville
KQXY Beaumont
KRBE Houston
KROC Rochester
WAOA Melbourne
WHHY Montgomery
WHOT Youngstown
WKFR Kalamazoo
WTWR Toledo
WWCK Flint
WWWQ Atlanta
WZNS Ft. Walton Beach
WZYP Huntsville

[Diablo Cody™]

^my station is listed!! and they added "Knock You Down" a few weeks ago...

[EvanJ]

Jul 2, 2009 22:41:33 GMT -5 Diablo Cody™ said:

^my station is listed!! and they added "Knock You Down" a few weeks ago...

They could have started playing it before they reported it as an add.