PPM - Will it effect formats & charts?

[TheJakes]

I have just been reading some articles (more here and here) about theimpact of the new Portable People Meter (PPM) radio ratings measurement system.

It seems to me that if this methodolgy proves out it will have a dramatic effect on both radio station formats and the charts. We are likely to see more stations flip to the AC, Hot AC and CHR/Pop formats if, as it seems, those get better ratings under the PPM system.

Which would mean on charts like the Hot 100, where audience impressions matter, there will be a decline in the AI's of hip-hop oriented songs and an increase in the AI's of rock and pop songs.

Any other thoughts on the issue?

[EvanJ]

From All Access Net News, here's a headline and then the first paragraph:

"Arbitron Agrees To "Yet Another' Independent PPM Review

In a lengthy response to ostensibly address the concerns of the NATIONAL ASSOCIATION OF BLACK OWNED BROADCASTERS, (NABOB), ARBITRON basically defended the development and rollout of the PPM, nonetheless agreed to have "yet another independent body review the methodology.""

I'm used to the old ratings system where popular stations have one or two digits and a decimal point over the new system, which is already used in Houston-Galveston and Philadelphia, in which the values have six or seven digits. In the PPM system, markets will now have ratings released 13 times a year instead of 12. All Access yesterday said that on Monday, Riverside-San Bernardino will have ratings released. Normally New York would also have ratings released that day, but New York is in the process of converting to PPM and I don't know when it will next have ratings released.

[atlantaboy]

thejakes said:

I have just been reading some articles (more here and here) about theimpact of the new Portable People Meter (PPM) radio ratings measurement system.

It seems to me that if this methodolgy proves out it will have a dramatic effect on both radio station formats and the charts. We are likely to see more stations flip to the AC, Hot AC and CHR/Pop formats if, as it seems, those get better ratings under the PPM system.

Which would mean on charts like the Hot 100, where audience impressions matter, there will be a decline in the AI's of hip-hop oriented songs and an increase in the AI's of rock and pop songs.

Any other thoughts on the issue?

IMO just another example of how arbitrary the A. I. system is and the complete invalidity of the Hot 100 ever since the early 90s

Wonderin why AC, Hot AC, and CHR get increased ratings under this system (never heard about it)

[TheJakes]

atlantaboy said:

Wonderin why AC, Hot AC, and CHR get increased ratings under this system (never heard about it)

My on theory is the PPM pick-up more the radio listening done in places like offices and stores. under the old diary system people did not record such listening but the PPM's pick it up. The radio station people tune into in the office may be more likely to be an AC, Hot AC or CHR than an Urban station.

just a theory.

[atlantaboy]

^Can't believe the old Arbitron system didn't include listenin at the office...I'm sorta goin back and forth about stores (whether IMO they should count) cause (1)the customers have absolutely no say in what station is on, and (2)not sure that most customers pay attention to the commercials and even the songs if they're turned down at such a low volume

[John77]

atlantaboy said:

^Can't believe the old Arbitron system didn't include listenin at the office...I'm sorta goin back and forth about stores (whether IMO they should count) cause (1)the customers have absolutely no say in what station is on, and (2)not sure that most customers pay attention to the commercials and even the songs if they're turned down at such a low volume

Pretty silly, considering how much at office listening is done.

Stores shouldn't count at all IMHO because as you say, the consumer has no say in what's being played...

[TheJakes]

john77 said:

atlantaboy said:

^Can't believe the old Arbitron system didn't include listenin at the office...I'm sorta goin back and forth about stores (whether IMO they should count) cause (1)the customers have absolutely no say in what station is on, and (2)not sure that most customers pay attention to the commercials and even the songs if they're turned down at such a low volume

Pretty silly, considering how much at office listening is done.

Stores shouldn't count at all IMHO because as you say, the consumer has no say in what's being played...

In the world of cube farms, rather than individual offices, you often have one radio from which the station is set collectively. In that case I can easily see that the most acceptable station for the entire cube farm would be an AC, Hot AC or CHR station rather than an Urban or Hispanic one.

As for listening in stores, the key thing is that even if you did not choose the station you will still be exposed to the ads. If advertisers decide that the PPM indicates that their ads on AC, Hot AC or CHR stations reach more ears then they willpay more for those ads and less for ads on Urban and Hispanic stations. Which would encourage the more marginal Urban and Hispanic stations to flip to another format.

[John77]

thejakes said:

john77 said:

Pretty silly, considering how much at office listening is done.

Stores shouldn't count at all IMHO because as you say, the consumer has no say in what's being played...

In the world of cube farms, rather than individual offices, you often have one radio from which the station is set collectively. In that case I can easily see that the most acceptable station for the entire cube farm would be an AC, Hot AC or CHR station rather than an Urban or Hispanic one.

As for listening in stores, the key thing is that even if you did not choose the station you will still be exposed to the ads. If advertisers decide that the PPM indicates that their ads on AC, Hot AC or CHR stations reach more ears then they willpay more for those ads and less for ads on Urban and Hispanic stations. Which would encourage the more marginal Urban and Hispanic stations to flip to another format.

It really depends on the offices... I mean out here in California, there's plenty of offices that are predominately hispanic or Mexican... and believe it or not, a lot of them would rather listen to the oldies station (KRTH) than hispanic or urban stuff...

[atlantaboy]

thejakes said:

As for listening in stores, the key thing is that even if you did not choose the station you will still be exposed to the ads. If advertisers decide that the PPM indicates that their ads on AC, Hot AC or CHR stations reach more ears then they willpay more for those ads and less for ads on Urban and Hispanic stations. Which would encourage the more marginal Urban and Hispanic stations to flip to another format.

Yeah got a couple thoughts here-

-I really don't think people pay much if any attention to commercials they hear bein played in stores, esp. since the volume is usually turned down so low, so still don't really think stores should count

-Urban and Hispanic stations tend to have extremely loyal listeners, and they also fill a market which needs to be filled (to appeal to a major ethnic group in a particular city) - I think there are very few "marginal" Urban stations (those in cities with high Afr-Am populations have huge ratings, while cities with low Afr-Am populations often don't even have an Urban station) - same with Hispanic stations, only Hispanic-heavy cities seem to be split up into 5-6 different types of Hispanic stations which all have to share the ratings...but I get the impression that they're truly dedicated to their Hispanic listeners and couldn't possibly see them changing formats to AC, Hot AC, or CHR

-The one format I can think of that could possibly IMO be affected is Rhythmic, which seems to be declining as a format (squeezed between teen CHRs and Urban stations) - I think Rhythmic is the major format least likely to be played in stores and restaurants (too narrow a sound and not appealing to any particular ethnic group with might frequent a store/restaurant in that neighborhood), and if its ratings continue to decline, maybe some Rhythmics might flip to AC, Hot AC, or CHR (esp. AC)

[Slinky]

At least in Philadelphia, it's had a huge impact on Urban/Urban AC.

WUSL, Power 99, Philly's leading Urban, was a top ten station before PPM. Now it's down to 18th.

WDAS, Philly's leading Urban AC, was top 3 in the market before PPM, sometimes hitting #1. It's down a little bit now to 4th.

There's been no effect on the Rhythmic. WRDW was in the 10th-15th range before PPM, fighting with CHR Q102. It's been pretty constant pre- and post- PPM.

[EvanJ]

Today All Access reports that in my market, Nassau-Suffolk, Classic Hits (meaning a format that targets older listeners) WCBS-FM is Number 1 ages 18-34 using the PPM system and calls that ridiculous. I wouldn't be surpised if CHR-Pop stations WHTZ and WBLI are the top two ages 18-34 using the diary system.

[atlantaboy]

evanj said:

Today All Access reports that in my market, Nassau-Suffolk, Classic Hits (meaning a format that targets older listeners) WCBS-FM is Number 1 ages 18-34 using the PPM system and calls that ridiculous. I wouldn't be surpised if CHR-Pop stations WHTZ and WBLI are the top two ages 18-34 using the diary system.

Weird...that's almost the opposite of the trends in Dallas, NYC, etc. (in Dallas the CHR and HAC stations shot straight up to the top using PPMs where they were much lower using the diary system)

And in the NYC market, the PPM system HELPED WHTZ...

WBLI is pretty teen-rhythmic-leaning though (I think - just goin from memory), so it might not be one of those CHRs that people have turned on at work during the day

I think the PPM system helps more mainstream CHRs, HACs, and ACs, as well as "hits from the past" stations like adult hits and classic hits - apparently these are the stations more likely to be heard in the workplace

[EvanJ]

www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=WBLI-FM has WBLI's playlist. They're not one of the mosr rhythmic-leaning CHR-Pop stations. In fact, they're on in my dentist's office.

[atlantaboy]

evanj said:

www.mmr247.com/mmrweb/AllAccess/Stations.asp?c_let=WBLI-FM has WBLI's playlist. They're not one of the mosr rhythmic-leaning CHR-Pop stations. In fact, they're on in my dentist's office.

Sorry (lol about the dentist's office) - thinkin they used to be pretty rhythmic though (late 90s, early 00s) but looks like they've def. changed

[threedollafoaholla]

Nov 13, 2007 18:26:44 GMT -5 atlantaboy said:

thejakes said:

-Urban and Hispanic stations tend to have extremely loyal listeners, and they also fill a market which needs to be filled (to appeal to a major ethnic group in a particular city) - I think there are very few "marginal" Urban stations (those in cities with high Afr-Am populations have huge ratings, while cities with low Afr-Am populations often don't even have an Urban station) - same with Hispanic stations, only Hispanic-heavy cities seem to be split up into 5-6 different types of Hispanic stations which all have to share the ratings...but I get the impression that they're truly dedicated to their Hispanic listeners and couldn't possibly see them changing formats to AC, Hot AC, or CHR

-The one format I can think of that could possibly IMO be affected is Rhythmic, which seems to be declining as a format (squeezed between teen CHRs and Urban stations) - I think Rhythmic is the major format least likely to be played in stores and restaurants (too narrow a sound and not appealing to any particular ethnic group with might frequent a store/restaurant in that neighborhood), and if its ratings continue to decline, maybe some Rhythmics might flip to AC, Hot AC, or CHR (esp. AC)

I don't have too much of an issue with the first part of your theory.

The second and third, however, I'm going to poke holes in.

.: Urban and Urban AC do have very loyal audiences, you're right about that. HOWEVER, that fact is going to burn stations in those formats SEVERELY once the PPM is fully in-place. With the Urban and Urban AC audiences, they are - more often than not - writing down long blocks of listening in a diary because their mindset is "well, that's all I listen to anyways." That may be true, but the PPM will actually be able to register EXACTLY when they are listening to the station and - again, more often than not - the long blocks they were writing down before will actually prove to be MUCH smaller increments, thus decreasing TSL and affecting the overall rating of the radio station. Because of this, owners are going to have to be more patient with ratings numbers and look at the bigger picture (revenue flow, etc) to guage the success or failure of an Urban or Urban AC.

.: Rhythmic never has been played in stores or restaurants, so there will not be a change with PPM. Rhythmic will most likely be affected in the same way as Urban and Urban AC, in that some of the audience may be writing down much longer blocks of TSL than they are really participating in, but I don't think the damage is going to be anywhere near as bad to Rhythmics as it will be to Urbans and Urban ACs.

[Slinky]

Damage won't be as bad to Rhythmics in part because its a cume-based format, and cume-based formats tend to do well in PPM.

It's been seen with AC in NY and Philly, Pop in NY, Adult Hits in Philly, etc. Rhythmic will be hurt by the people who will no longer be able to write down the local Rhythmic all day in their diary, but it will be helped by the Pop and Urban listeners who just check into the Rhythmic occasionally. That occasional listening to Rhythmics may not have been memorable enough to be included in a diary but it will be picked up by PPM.

[Marv]

I've gotta take issue with a couple of statements made here.

1)---KHKS/Dallas has been the #1 station in Big D for almost two years, and is #1 in just about every demo you can name, so I'm not sure why atlantaboy stated that they 'shot to the top' upon the implimentation of PPM; they've also demolished longtime market leader Urban K104 (KKDA) ratings-wise in the process.

2)---The statement that 'rhythmic music isn't played in restaurants' doesn't hold water out here in LA at least; just about every SUBWAY restaurant I routinely visit here has Hispanics behind the counter, and they're always had Power 106 on, so SUBWAY's implimentation of 'Subway Radio' was a wonderful thing for yours truly.

If you were referring to sit down restaurants such as Applebee's or OutBack Steakhouse, then you are correct.

3)---One format which has seen substantial increases in listenership since PPM came along is Country, and especially in Houston & Philadelphia.

The introduction of Soundscan in 1991 was the best thing to happen to country music in the past twenty years; it clearly showed that country music sales had been horrendously underreported before then; PPM figures to be another enormous boost for country radio.

4)---Stations which have substantial numbers of in-the-office listeners (with AC, Country, Oldies (the relatively few that are left compared to twenty years ago!!!) & Hot AC leading the way will also benefit a lot from the PPM system as well.

[John77]

Somehow I'd forgotten we already had a thread on this... pretty much everything that was predicted by threedolla and Marv has panned out.

[atlantaboy]

Jan 10, 2008 20:16:08 GMT -5 Marv said:

I've gotta take issue with a couple of statements made here.

1)---KHKS/Dallas has been the #1 station in Big D for almost two years, and is #1 in just about every demo you can name, so I'm not sure why atlantaboy stated that they 'shot to the top' upon the implimentation of PPM

Naw Kiss Dallas was/is on top of regular Arbitron diary ratings (without PPM)...wonderin if you're talkin about someone else's post