|
Post by fran182 on May 14, 2009 13:37:08 GMT -5
Today, it reached top 50 on Mediabase Alternative:
67 50 FRAY Heartless 182 81 101 1.914
11 stations playing.
This is a Kanye West cover! Am I the only one that is fucking surprised to see this so high, with a +100 bullet and without even going for adds?
|
|
pen
9x Platinum Member
A true gentleman leaves no puzzle unsolved.
Joined: July 2005
Posts: 9,408
|
Post by pen on May 14, 2009 13:42:33 GMT -5
It's not even their next singe, "Never Say Never" is.
|
|
jvandyck87
5x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 5,213
|
Post by jvandyck87 on May 14, 2009 13:47:28 GMT -5
This one's minor key. That's why it'll do better than "Never Say Never" at alternative. "NSN" has no chance, this one does. And it's a very good cover.
|
|
Matt4319
Administrator
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 15,215
Staff
|
Post by Matt4319 on May 14, 2009 13:57:44 GMT -5
Wow. I only listened to this on Tuesday night after hearing that American Idol contestant Kris Allen covered "Heartless" acoustically - much like The Fray did. I didn't watch the show or hear his performance yet, but right now I think I like The Fray's version more than Kanye's (which may or may not be due to burnout on the original). I also like it more than any other Fray track I've heard since "How to Save a Life". I was going to make a topic in Non-Singles about it... but this will do fine.
|
|
lockebox
5x Platinum Member
Joined: April 2009
Posts: 5,739
|
Post by lockebox on May 14, 2009 14:00:05 GMT -5
Never thought a Kanye West song being covered by a piano pop band would reach the top 50 on alternative. I don't think The Fray is the sort of band to go past #30, hopefully they don't do it with this >:(
|
|
pen
9x Platinum Member
A true gentleman leaves no puzzle unsolved.
Joined: July 2005
Posts: 9,408
|
Post by pen on May 14, 2009 14:14:48 GMT -5
This one's minor key. That's why it'll do better than "Never Say Never" at alternative. "NSN" has no chance, this one does. And it's a very good cover. You weird me out more than any other person here, I think. And I mean that in the nicest way possible.
|
|
jvandyck87
5x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 5,213
|
Post by jvandyck87 on May 14, 2009 14:18:34 GMT -5
Awww. *blushes*
I feel the same way about you...
|
|
jmac
Charting
Joined: December 2008
Posts: 45
|
Post by jmac on May 14, 2009 14:31:28 GMT -5
Wow. The Kris Allen performance on idol has really impacted this. I like Kriss version much better than the Fray's though.
|
|
Nicholas2.0
6x Platinum Member
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 6,666
|
Post by Nicholas2.0 on May 14, 2009 14:37:55 GMT -5
I didn't remember to tune in to American Idol Tuesday night until Kris was receiving his "Heartless" feedback, which was 10-15 minutes before the show was over. I had no idea what song he had just performed and the judges made no mention of The Fray. Did Kris or Ryan say anything before the song? I didn't get to watch last night at all because I was at work, so I don't know if anyone made any mention of it then, either. So far, in the articles I've read at vh1/mtv.com, they haven't mentioned The Fray version, which came out two months ago. I just wish people would give credit where it's due.
|
|
|
Post by When I Ruled the World on May 14, 2009 14:42:22 GMT -5
I'm quite sure Kris made the finals on American Idol because he sang this song so well on Tues night (his version is my favorite of the 3).
|
|
WotUNeed
2x Platinum Member
Deacon Blues
Joined: April 2010
Posts: 2,935
|
Post by WotUNeed on May 14, 2009 14:54:30 GMT -5
Gee, I hope this follows The Fray up the charts! It's a nice enough version, but I'm definitely surprised it's doing this well with or without Idol. Alt doesn't seem like a format that would be greatly influenced by Seacrest and co.
|
|
Matt4319
Administrator
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 15,215
Staff
|
Post by Matt4319 on May 14, 2009 15:04:23 GMT -5
It's a nice enough version, but I'm definitely surprised it's doing this well with or without Idol. Alt doesn't seem like a format that would be greatly influenced by Seacrest and co. Yeah, I'd be interested in seeing its day-by-day trends for the next week (not necessarily having them posted on this topic every day for the next week) to see if it made a sudden leap. There was only one day of post-AI airplay that went into this, so I would have to guess it was going to make the chart with or without Kris Allen.
|
|
jmac
Charting
Joined: December 2008
Posts: 45
|
Post by jmac on May 14, 2009 15:16:50 GMT -5
I didn't remember to tune in to American Idol Tuesday night until Kris was receiving his "Heartless" feedback, which was 10-15 minutes before the show was over. I had no idea what song he had just performed and the judges made no mention of The Fray. Did Kris or Ryan say anything before the song? I didn't get to watch last night at all because I was at work, so I don't know if anyone made any mention of it then, either. So far, in the articles I've read at vh1/mtv.com, they haven't mentioned The Fray version, which came out two months ago. I just wish people would give credit where it's due. Randy's comment was "Better than Kanye's Version, Better than The Fray's Version." On a side note, this is up to 35 on itunes and the Kanye Version is at 30. I have no doubt it it because of Kris Allen.
|
|
|
Post by singingsparrow on May 14, 2009 22:52:32 GMT -5
It's probably very good for the band that this has emerged an arguably unlikely success on iTunes (and possibly radio) given that The Fray have received a lot of blunt criticism as of late for a generic, conservative effort with their sophomore album, and that in the minds of many critics there's virtually no edge to their music.
I don't entirely agree with the criticism, as I never expected The Fray to make any real departure musically with their second album, but they've been stung by it I sense, and so this surprise cover success may reassure some to a modest extent.
Sincerely, Noah Eaton
|
|
Matt4319
Administrator
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 15,215
Staff
|
Post by Matt4319 on May 15, 2009 12:03:19 GMT -5
They just put up the AllAccess link today. wm.allaccess.com/allaccess/frayhear.wmaI like the Radio 1 version a little more, despite the "oooh-oooohs" being a good bit more prominent in that version.
|
|
PHOBES
3x Platinum Member
Until We Have Faces (02-01-11)
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 3,317
|
Post by PHOBES on May 15, 2009 12:42:20 GMT -5
This one's minor key. That's why it'll do better than "Never Say Never" at alternative. I think you place way too much emphasis on a song's key. Yeah, it holds weight, but it doesn't make or break a song.
|
|
Matt4319
Administrator
Joined: September 2003
Posts: 15,215
Staff
|
Post by Matt4319 on May 15, 2009 14:03:35 GMT -5
I think he's right about "Never Say Never" not having a shot at Alternative, but it's because the song is whiny and melodramatic. And not "alternative" in the least.
|
|
PHOBES
3x Platinum Member
Until We Have Faces (02-01-11)
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 3,317
|
Post by PHOBES on May 15, 2009 16:50:19 GMT -5
I think he's right about "Never Say Never" not having a shot at Alternative, but it's because the song is whiny and melodramatic. And not "alternative" in the least. Though I agree that it wouldn't do well, I don't think it's because it's in major key.
|
|
jvandyck87
5x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 5,213
|
Post by jvandyck87 on May 15, 2009 16:57:49 GMT -5
Major key = happy. If it's not punk, major key songs on average don't do well on the rock charts. Why do you think piano players learn the C Major scale first and guitar players learn the E minor pentatonic scale first? Rock music tends to lean darker...it's not some technical esoteric thing. It's just a character of the music. And you may not realize that it matters because you don't think of the music that way, but I promise you that you hear it subconsciously.
|
|
aTunes
9x Platinum Member
Bow
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 9,166
|
Post by aTunes on May 15, 2009 16:57:56 GMT -5
Wow, this is unexpected. I actually liked Kris Allen's version of this better (it was different than The Fray's too).
|
|
PHOBES
3x Platinum Member
Until We Have Faces (02-01-11)
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 3,317
|
Post by PHOBES on May 15, 2009 17:08:08 GMT -5
Major key = happy. And you may not realize that it matters because you don't think of the music that way, but I promise you that you hear it subconsciously. Dude, don't talk to me like I'm brain dead. You're not the only person here that understands the way scales work and how a specific tone can influence a song. I know exactly what you're saying, I just said that it doesn't always happen like that. Not every rock song is in minor key, and not every Fray of Lifehouse song is in major key. I said something similar about time signatures, yes they have a big effect on the song, but they don't define it. Music has no meaning, just the meaning the listener gives it.
|
|
jvandyck87
5x Platinum Member
Joined: July 2007
Posts: 5,213
|
Post by jvandyck87 on May 15, 2009 17:21:38 GMT -5
Sorry if I came across like I thought you were "brain dead." My bad. And your final statement is true. However, certain sounds are associated with certain feelings and appeal to a certain crowd. That's why a film composer has a career in the first place. A metal-head is gonna hear a major scale and run away at full speed. A pop fan would probably hear an octatonic scale and say "that isn't music!" Are they generalizations? Sure. But generalizations are very accurate when dealing with how a song is received by a mass population.
When have Lifehouse and The Fray done decently well at alternative rock? When their songs were minor key. The chorus to "Hanging By A Moment" is minor. Same with "You Found Me" and "How To Save A Life." "First Time" by Lifehouse sounds just as rock as "Hanging By A Moment" in terms of instrumentation, distortion, lyrics. Granted, they had lost some rock credibility with "You And Me," but "First Time" just doesn't sound like a rock song, and the reason is because the whole thing is major key. "Falls On Me" was a relative flop at rock after the success of Something Like Human because of that completely pop Major key chorus that rock fans were not gonna go for. Yet "Falls On Me" was as big as anything Fuel has put out at pop. I could go on, but you probably don't wanna hear more.
The point is, I'm not saying that the key defines the song. But there are trends, and all things BEING EQUAL, a minor key song will do better at alternative/rock.
|
|
pen
9x Platinum Member
A true gentleman leaves no puzzle unsolved.
Joined: July 2005
Posts: 9,408
|
Post by pen on May 15, 2009 17:30:12 GMT -5
That's silly. I love "First Time" and "Falls On Me". I don't think it has anything to do with major or minor keys, that's just coincidence.
|
|
Cody
6x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 6,692
|
Post by Cody on May 15, 2009 17:31:38 GMT -5
That's silly. I love "First Time" and "Falls On Me". I don't think it has anything to do with major or minor keys, that's just coincidence.
|
|
PHOBES
3x Platinum Member
Until We Have Faces (02-01-11)
Joined: February 2008
Posts: 3,317
|
Post by PHOBES on May 15, 2009 17:37:06 GMT -5
The point is, I'm not saying that the key defines the song. But there are trends, and all things BEING EQUAL, a minor key song will do better at alternative/rock. This statement is absolutely true, but I think it has less to do with Major/Minor and more to do with Happy/Depressing. Now, I know a lot of times these can be the same thing, but I've heard songs that are about happy topics, but they're in minor key (see: Christian Rock). Even the opposite is true, downright depressing music in major key. I think the reason that MOST major songs don't do well on rock radio is because they typically are happy in subject matter, not in arrangement.
|
|
Cody
6x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 6,692
|
Post by Cody on May 15, 2009 17:44:53 GMT -5
I think Happy and Angry go together for minor actually lol, emo/depressing for major
|
|
|
Post by Baby In a New Dress on May 15, 2009 18:30:15 GMT -5
This cover isn't shocking. Kanye already said he had a vision about it as a country song. And if you listen to it well, it is a coiuntry song. So making it an acoustic ballad is no stretch at all. They did it justice.
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 15, 2009 18:52:28 GMT -5
This one's minor key. That's why it'll do better than "Never Say Never" at alternative. I think you place way too much emphasis on a song's key. Yeah, it holds weight, but it doesn't make or break a song. Yeah I was wonderin about that...is the majority of the Alternative Chart really in a minor key? Tryin to go through some of the biggest Alternative songs this decade... Higher - major key Hanging By A Moment - major key In The End - minor key Crawlin' - minor key Blurry - minor key Hemorrhage (In My Hands) - verse minor/chorus major Numb - minor key Meant To Live - major key Dani California - minor key Boulevard Of Broken Dreams - minor key The Pretender - minor key So Cold - minor key Cold/Crossfade - minor key Bleed It Out - minor key Behind Blue Eyes - minor key Always/Saliva - minor key Down With The Sickness - power chords, basically minor key How You Remind Me - minor key Paralyzer - minor key Second Chance - minor key hate to say it but maybe he's gotta point...
|
|
atlantaboy
9x Platinum Member
Joined: June 2007
Posts: 9,251
|
Post by atlantaboy on May 15, 2009 19:01:16 GMT -5
When have Lifehouse and The Fray done decently well at alternative rock? When their songs were minor key. The chorus to "Hanging By A Moment" is minor. Same with "You Found Me" and "How To Save A Life." Wait...def. agreed with all those Alt. hits bein minor key, but Hanging By A Moment and How To Save A Life are def. written in major keys (includin the choruses)...You Found Me seems like it could go both ways, but since verses are minor assumin chorus is supposed to be minor-based
|
|
Cody
6x Platinum Member
Joined: August 2008
Posts: 6,692
|
Post by Cody on May 15, 2009 19:05:55 GMT -5
well to be fair, Lifehouse is major key, and is definitely still one of the biggest alternative hits of the decade
|
|