Aaliyah feat Timbaland - Try Again in '09

[Ace of Clubs]

Aaliyah feat Timbaland
"Try Again in '09" (Damaged Speaker Vocal Remix)
(Total Time 4:55)

Aaliyah's "Try Again" is a great track in it's original format, so I didn't want to mess with it TOO much. But it always DID need an energy boost in order to make it more danceable, so...

www.divshare.com/download/7453383-a52

[Lancifer Fama]

mtv music generator? reminds me of mixing back in the day...

the chords and everything are off it just doesn't work overall... nice attempt

[Ace of Clubs]

Hmm, I'm wondering what your basing this on? I checked all of the keys and chords and they are "on." Based on your comment I re-checked to be doubly sure. The first verse I did not fluctuate the backing track, but it matches the vox overall and is always at very least in a complimentary key. On the remaining verses/choruses, the backing track fluctuates to match the changes in the vocal. Is there a particular part of the song that you find to be OOK when you listen? Thanks for your feedback, Lancifer Fama! I really value everyone's opinions, especially those that disagree with me b/c I want to correct if I am wrong.

Ps I used Audacity.

[jamesrendon]

What source did you use to identify the chords? If you used your ears, I suggest you check them against the chords of the original. Try searching "aaliyah try again guitar."

When you sped up the vocals, did you alter the pitch in any way or did you just alter the tempo? You might've altered the pitch and so the chords wont fit this song no matter how right they are! :)

On another note, you should try working with a proper acapella so that your music does not clash with the original instruments.

[Ace of Clubs]

Jun 17, 2009 1:24:19 GMT -5 jamesrendon said:

What source did you use to identify the chords? If you used your ears, I suggest you check them against the chords of the original. Try searching "aaliyah try again guitar."

When you sped up the vocals, did you alter the pitch in any way or did you just alter the tempo? You might've altered the pitch and so the chords wont fit this song no matter how right they are! :)

On another note, you should try working with a proper acapella so that your music does not clash with the original instruments.

Audacity (program). I have a good ear for it, but I don't trust them, so I always check to be sure.

Pitch is the same. You're familiar with the original? I never liked pitch-shifted vocals much, especially for an entire song (maybe as an effect only). Anyhow, the pitch was not altered.

There was no music on the acapella I used. It is not a studio acapella, however.

Guys, I've had plenty of feedback elsewhere and you are the only ones who seem to hear key issues. Others have said they don't like the vocal sped up so much. That I understand. Anyway, thank you for listening and commenting. If you have any other ideas I'd love to hear them. For example, if you said "your track is in "g" and the acapella is g#," that type of thing could help. But honestly, I checked the sources, so unless the computer program is messed up (let's face it, that IS a possibility) as well as the ears of dozens of others, this is in key.

[jamesrendon]

I opened up the Acapella in Melodyne and compared it to the original track. I am convinced that the acapella version is screwed up ( I think it's been pitched up ever so slightly, not by you). The original track is in g# minor, and the acapella vocal seems to be in A major from what I can tell.

I can tell you with absolute certainty that there is harmonic dissonance going on here. The thing is it is not caused by you but by the person that made the acapella.

To demonstrate my point, I have made a very rough acapella using the original instrumental with the original track. I did a quick arrangement, and I came up with this...

www.mediafire.com/?koitmxmiodm

[Ace of Clubs]

You're awesome, dude! This is excellent feedback! Question 4u though... The track itself is "E" (at least according to Audacity). Shouldn't that work well "diatonically" with either A or G#m?

You are right, though. I didn't notice that the acapella I'd found was higher pitch than the original. I REALLY like the little bit that you did! Any chance you'll make a complete mix?

And PS, PLEASE feel more than welcome to visit my site and critique ALL of my mixes! I really want to hear this type of thing in order to be upmost quality! I've got new ones of TLC "Waterfalls," Sugar Ray "Fly" and Monica "Angel of Mine." I'd love to hear your thoughts!

www.clubcountdown.blogspot.com

[jamesrendon]

It's no problem whatsoever...anything I can do to help out! Do you have a chat client (msn, yahoo, etc)? We could exchange tips and shit. There are just so many crazily intricate things going on in music production, and it's highly important to have everything covered to have that "professional" sound.

About the complete try again mix...I've actually always wanted to remix that song, but the original is sooo good (one of my favorite Timbaland productions) that I never felt I could do it justice. I just may try it soon, but for now I'm trying to decide what mix to do. I wanted to do Battlefield, but I can't find a good acapella!

[bert]

Jun 20, 2009 9:58:12 GMT -5 jamesrendon said:

I opened up the Acapella in Melodyne and compared it to the original track. I am convinced that the acapella version is screwed up ( I think it's been pitched up ever so slightly, not by you). The original track is in g# minor, and the acapella vocal seems to be in A major from what I can tell.

How could just transposing something change it from a minor key to major key?

It's quite possible that the acapella has issues though. I remember "Gimme More" was somewhere halfway between F#m and Gm.

Either way, NEVER trust a program to tell you a key of something. They are TERRIBLE (and most can't detect major keys).

The mix is way out of key. If you couldn't tell that right away just by listening to it, then I don't know how to help you.

[jamesrendon]

I don't know exactly how transposing a vocal from minor to major keys works - I've never encountered a situation in which that would be useful, but I know better than to completely trust a program. The only thing I trust (most of the time) are my ears, and they were telling me that Ace of Clubs mix was not in key with the vocal. If you check out the little sample I did, you can tell that it is most definitely in key (from what my ears tell me). And, by the way, Melodyne is an EXCELLENT program. It's not perfect by any stretch of the imagination, but it is in no way terrible.

[bert]

The second half of that post was directed at Ace. Should have been clearer.

[Ace of Clubs]

Bit Error & JamesRendon, once again, thank you for your helpful feedback. James, I'm on AIM, but not often at all.

So I'm pissed that I didn't notice that the aca was altered. I hadn't actually listened to the song in years, but found the aca and it was a song that I always thought needed a dance mix, so I did one based on the original key of the song. So obviously it's not in the SAME key, and not in it's ORIGINAL key, which would explain why it sounds "off" to a few people. But this brings me back to my old standby of "related keys." My main interest is beat mixing, so I rely heavily on harmony using related keys, since not many songs have the exact same chords using the exact same key structure. I still think that the altered acapella is in a relative key to the track. I wish it was the SAME key, but that ship has sailed. I deleted the stems a while ago and I'm too over this track to go back and do it again. It taught me a good lesson though: never assume that the acapella hasn't been altered. Check the keys! SH!T!

[bert]

What I'm saying, is if you chouldn't tell that the pella you were using was HORRIDLY off, there's a problem. If it's in a "related key" then it's either been piched up 5 semitones or down 5 - which would be super noticeable (she would sound like a mouse or a man, respectively).

[Ace of Clubs]

Thanks, Bit Error. I was referring to jamesrendon's post stating that the original key of the pella was g#m, and it had been altered to A. My program (which you've pointed out could be flawed) has the track at E. That would work with either A or it's relative minor, g#m. But I still don't know the answer to your question of whether that is even possible to change the scale of a song.

Thanks for the continuing education in music! I obviously don't have the sharply attuned ears or education that you have to pick out a key just by listening. Unfortunately, I have to rely on technology. I appreciate your comments, though. I dont intend to have this key quandry again!

[jamesrendon]

Seriously, Ace, it will come with time. Before you know it, you'll be able to pick out a single off-key within a song, amongst a multitude of instruments. I'm not saying you don't have the ear for it - it may be that it's just not fully developed yet. In any case, technology is your friend. I say use it to compliment your ears, not replace them. I've used Audacity before, and it's a great program. I just don't think it's the best for key and melody detection. Try Melodyne; it's fantastic.

And don't fret about not getting things perfect all the time. There have been countless times I have felt like a complete and utter loser when it comes to this stuff. The most productive attitude you can have is learning from your mistakes, rectifying them, and moving on!

I've listened to some of your mixes, and I can honestly say you have great ideas. If you tighten up the technical aspects, you will be fine.