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Post by busyboy on Aug 22, 2009 5:43:59 GMT -5
And I'm not saying if it wasn't a hit, it shouldn't be allowed on that list, but when you have a ratio of 10:1 when it comes to relatively unknown songs compared to known ones, you know there's a huge mainstream bias there, and it's something Pitchfork has always done. Maybe because Pitchfork is not a mainstream outlet? ??? I'm not even sure what your point is, frankly, but I'm sure you're aware that different publications cater to different demographics and markets, which is exactly what Pitchfork is doing with its list. It's not supposed to crank out an Entertainment Weekly-like list just because too many "songs that only a small group of people are aware of" are featured on it. They work and are followed by people who want to know about those kind of songs and artists. |
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Post by Deleted on Aug 22, 2009 6:03:16 GMT -5
How is such a little known song going to have such a big effect on people, or the music industry for that matter? So why should it be the song of the decade? And the same argument can be made for far too many songs on that list. So yes I do think mainstream songs should be given more clout on these kinds of lists, because they're what have the biggest overall effect in the world of music, and what have truly shaped the decade musically. And I'm not saying if it wasn't a hit, it shouldn't be allowed on that list, but when you have a ratio of 10:1 when it comes to relatively unknown songs compared to known ones, you know there's a huge mainstream bias there, and it's something Pitchfork has always done. Because it's not about how popular or successful they are, it's about how good they are. I don't see how that's so hard for you to grasp. |
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banet2001
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Post by banet2001 on Aug 22, 2009 9:13:09 GMT -5
The list looks quite ridiculous now, so yeah, imagine how bad it will look in 10 years. For the record, I have heard the vast majority of the 500 songs on that list, I do consider myself a music buff after all. My point was that the person I quoted could join the club of the majority of people that don't know most of those songs. When there's an extremely small percentage of people out there that know more than 40 songs on that list, it tells me it's way too mainstream biased. If you scream in the forest and no ones there, who's to know you ever really screamed? It's the same thing with songs that only a small group of people are aware of. How can a song that doesn't even exist in the majority of people's minds be considered so defining of a decade? I mean really, what kind of reputation will B.O.B. have in 10 years? Essentially none, since it's a very unknown song. How is such a little known song going to have such a big effect on people, or the music industry for that matter? So why should it be the song of the decade? And the same argument can be made for far too many songs on that list. So yes I do think mainstream songs should be given more clout on these kinds of lists, because they're what have the biggest overall effect in the world of music, and what have truly shaped the decade musically. And I'm not saying if it wasn't a hit, it shouldn't be allowed on that list, but when you have a ratio of 10:1 when it comes to relatively unknown songs compared to known ones, you know there's a huge mainstream bias there, and it's something Pitchfork has always done. Of course when I comes to Pulse, many (if not most) are mainstream biased the other way, meaning EVERY best song of the decade list needs to be dominated by the likes of We Belong Together, Bleeding Love etc. The Pitchfork list is based on QUALITY, not POPULARITY. Who cares if most people here have not heard most of the songs on that list. Maybe people should use it as motivation to get out there and listen to the best songs of the decade, not simply listen to the songs that mainstream radio and major labels tell you to listen to. What type of reputation will BOB have in ten years? Well it was released almost ten years ago and still has enough reputation to be the number one song of the decade, so I imagine it will still merit a great reputation. Besides, what type of reputation do some of the huge mainstream hits of the 1990's have today, like One Sweet Day, End of the Road, Macarena etc. Do they deserve the clout for being the "best" and most influential songs of the 1990's? Absolutely not. How about "Physical" from Olivia Newton John. It was the biggest hit from the 1980's. Was it really the highest artisic achievement in music of the 1980's? How about "You Light Up My Life" by Debbie Boone, the biggest hit of the 1970's. Was it really the musical high point of the 1970's just because it was the biggest hit of the 1970's? So big mainstream hits do not mean quality and they certainly do not generate a long term reputation for artistic merit, no matter how many weeks a song may stay at number one. I have far more respect for best of the year/decade lists that uses artistic merit as the number one critera as opposed to the lazy "most popular" lists like Billboard will come out with. Many songs that are popular now will fade in the upcoming decades, wheras true artistic achievement will always have its admirers and influence, even if it not ackowledged by the consensus of the population. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 22, 2009 10:24:24 GMT -5
How can the biggest song of the decade not be on this list?
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Nevermind
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Post by Nevermind on Aug 22, 2009 10:39:52 GMT -5
How can the biggest song of the decade not be on this list? Because as has just been said: Chart Success ≠ Quality. "We Belong Together" did get a warm reception on its release (a first for Mariah in nearly a decade), but it was never raved about by indie publications. It was always overshadowed in critical circles by the other big chart hit of the year: "Since U Been Gone". |
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Matt4319
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Post by Matt4319 on Aug 22, 2009 11:11:54 GMT -5
My pleasant surprises (i.e., the songs I like that I didn't think would be on here, or at least as high as they ended up):
397. Queens of the Stone Age - "The Lost Art of Keeping a Secret"
351. Rich Boy [ft. Polow Da Don] - "Throw Some D's"
350. Man Man - "Van Helsing Boombox"
276. The Darkness - "I Believe in a Thing Called Love"
165. Jimmy Eat World "The Middle"
155. Coldplay "Clocks"
150. Junior Senior "Move Your Feet"
131. Destiny's Child "Say My Name"
129. Andrew W.K. "Party Hard"
93. The Game [ft. 50 Cent] "Hate It or Love It"
78. Freelance Hellraiser "A Stroke of Genius"
77. Three 6 Mafia "Stay Fly"
69. Arcade Fire "Rebellion (Lies)"
49. Sufjan Stevens "Chicago"
14. Jay-Z "99 Problems"
8. Radiohead "Idioteque" <-- probably the most surprising of all. It's my favorite Radiohead song of the decade (and overall); I would've thought the odds about 30-1 that Pitchfork would agree.
6. Yeah Yeah Yeahs "Maps"
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Aug 22, 2009 11:36:22 GMT -5
How can the biggest song of the decade not be on this list? It wasn't biggest song of the decade. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 22, 2009 12:10:09 GMT -5
How can the biggest song of the decade not be on this list? It wasn't biggest song of the decade. No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade  |
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Post by galvanize on Aug 22, 2009 12:14:46 GMT -5
It wasn't biggest song of the decade. No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade THIS:  |
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WotUNeed
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Post by WotUNeed on Aug 22, 2009 12:24:07 GMT -5
Pleasantly surprised to see "The Rat" so high. I would not have guessed that The Walkmen would end up with an entry in the top 20. Lots of other stuff on the list I like (and some I don't), but for the most part, those rankings seem less striking.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 22, 2009 12:46:58 GMT -5
No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade THIS: LOL, nice try! ;) |
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BrokenArrow
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Post by BrokenArrow on Aug 22, 2009 16:47:16 GMT -5
It wasn't biggest song of the decade. No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade Oh dear, you really are stereotypically American. |
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worldwide
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Post by worldwide on Aug 22, 2009 18:50:12 GMT -5
No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade Oh dear, you really are stereotypically American. biggest or not, WBT was huge hit and it's very good song, not just another successful trash like BBP. This list makes me laugh, all the craps they put on it, and WBT didn't make it in top 500. Please, be honest and tell me: Do you really think Lip Gloss is better than WBT? Seeing Lip Gloss, Oh, Toxic, Crazy In Love... just makes me laugh. |
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worldwide
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Post by worldwide on Aug 22, 2009 18:53:29 GMT -5
No Mary j.b.'s Family Affair? Well, that makes sense, I mean, Lipgloss and CIL are far better...
No "If I Aint Got You"? Well, that makes sense, Any Ciara's song is better....
this list makes me puke
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Post by jj99$ - - LeLe on Aug 22, 2009 19:46:36 GMT -5
ooooh another LAMB is pissed. get over it.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 5:07:00 GMT -5
Of all the songs to whine about not being in there, "Family Affair"? That song is dreadful. Obviously "Crazy In Love" and "Toxic" are better.
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Nevermind
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Post by Nevermind on Aug 23, 2009 5:34:06 GMT -5
People genuinely should not be allowed to enter this thread unless they understand some core musical principles: 01. Chart Success ≠ Quality
02. Music taste is subjectiveTo say "We Belong Together" deserves to factually be called one of the highest quality songs of the past ten years, or is intrisically better than "Crazy In Love" is logically fallacious, and is simply wrong. A lot of sites will be releasing their opinions on the decade's music so far, and people should respect their opinions, and not moan every time your favourite songs are not on a list. Turn your anger to something creative and go and make a decade end list for yourself, I'd love to see it, but don't come in here and ruin things for people who have a genuine curiosity to see what critics have enjoyed most this decade, and to find quality music that we may have missed in the past ten years. Thank you. Anyway, here is Gorilla vs. Bear's songs of the decade: 01 Panda Bear | bro's 02 Outkast | b.o.b. 03 The Knife | heartbeats 04 UGK feat. Outkast | international players anthem 05 The Walkmen | the rat 06 Animal Collective | my girls 07 White Denim | let's talk about it 08 Radiohead | idioteque 09 Grouper | heavy water/i'd rather be sleeping 10 Clipse | grindin 11 Jay-Z | izzo (H.O.V.A.) 12 Outkast | hey ya 13 The Shivers | beauty 14 The Strokes | hard to explain 15 Cat Power | he war 16 Yeah Yeah Yeahs | maps 17 Justin Timberlake | rock your body 18 R Kelly | trapped in the closet 19 T.I. | what you know 20 Panda Bear | good girl/carrots 21 Grizzly Bear | while you wait for the others 22 Daft Punk | one more time 23 The White Stripes | dead leaves and the dirty ground 24 Radiohead | pyramid song 25 Burial | archangel 26 M.I.A. | paper planes 27 Wilco | jesus, etc. 28 Erykah Badu | the healer 29 Dizzee Rascal | fix up look sharp 30 LCD Soundsystem | someone great 31 The Arcade Fire | neighborhood #1 (tunnels) 32 Slimm Calhoun feat. Andre 3000 | it's okay 33 Interpol | obstacle 1 34 Missy Elliott | gossip folks 35 Yeah Yeah Yeahs | y control 36 Amadou & Mariam | sabali 37 Chromatics | in the city 38 Lil Wayne | i feel like dying 39 Gorillaz | clint eastwood 40 Birdman feat. Clipse | what happened to that boy & 01 The Strokes | Hard to Explain 02 Panda Bear | Good Girls / Carrots 03 Sonic Youth | Sympathy for the Strawberry 04 Radiohead | Kid A 05 Animal Collective | Did You See the Words? 06 Spoon | The Beast and Dragon, Adored 07 Wilco | War on War 08 Panda Bear | Bro's 09 The Knife | Heartbeats 10 Burial | Shell of Light 11 Little Joy | The Next Time Around 12 Cat Power | I Don't Blame You 13 Radiohead | Pulk/Pull Revolving Doors 14 Deerhoof | Scream Team 15 The Arcade Fire | Haiti 16 M.I.A. | Paper Planes 17 The Strokes | Meet Me in the Bathroom 18 Deltron 3030 | 3030 19 Air | Surfing on a Rocket 20 Outkast | Hey Ya! 21 Grizzly Bear | Little Brother 22 The Walkmen | Thinking of a Dream I Had 23 Jay-Z | Big Pimpin' 24 Animal Collective | My Girls 25 Beck | Hell Yes 26 Yeah Yeahs Yeahs | Y Control 27 The White Stripes | Little Bird 28 Beach House | D.A.R.L.I.N.G. 29 The Avalanches | Since I Left You 30 Clinic | Distortions 31 Devendra Banhart | Poughkeepsie 32 Animal Collective | Winters Love 33 Cut Copy | Far Away 34 Grandaddy | Hewlett's Daughter 35 LCD Soundsystem | All My Friends 36 Daft Punk | One More Time 37 Air France | June Evenings 38 White Denim | Heart From Us All 39 No Age | My Life's Alright Without You 40 Spoon | They Never Got You |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 23, 2009 6:59:34 GMT -5
No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade Oh dear, you really are stereotypically American. I'm not even American. I'm Italian ;) |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 23, 2009 7:04:43 GMT -5
People genuinely should not be allowed to enter this thread unless they understand some core musical principles: 01. Chart Success ≠ Quality
02. Music taste is subjectiveTo say "We Belong Together" deserves to factually be called one of the highest quality songs of the past ten years, or is intrisically better than "Crazy In Love" is logically fallacious, and is simply wrong. A lot of sites will be releasing their opinions on the decade's music so far, and people should respect their opinions, and not moan every time your favourite songs are not on a list. Turn your anger to something creative and go and make a decade end list for yourself, I'd love to see it, but don't come in here and ruin things for people who have a genuine curiosity to see what critics have enjoyed most this decade, and to find quality music that we may have missed in the past ten years. Thank you. I never said 'We Belong Together' deserved to be there instead of another song that appears on that list. I just said that it's weird that the biggest song of this decade did not make the list, that's all. I respect their opinion and I know that music taste is subjective, I just responded to someone who said that it wasn't the biggest song of the decade and that obviously didn't check the stats before speaking. And, to say WBT isn't a good song is just ignorant. I doubt all the songs on that list are as good or better. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 23, 2009 7:06:55 GMT -5
ooooh another LAMB is pissed. get over it. No one's pissed here. I don't live to see Mariah or 'We Belong Together' appear on "Decade-End" lists, thank you. |
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Coin-Operated [Boy]
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Post by Coin-Operated [Boy] on Aug 23, 2009 7:35:30 GMT -5
2. LCD Soundsystem
"All My Friends"
Yes.
Oh and people who expect Pitchfork to particularize more commercially-acknowledged songs are completely oblivious of it; not that they need to know about it, since there's already a continuum of media that serves to recognize mainstream music.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 7:47:02 GMT -5
I just said that it's weird that the biggest song of this decade did not make the list, that's all. Why is it weird? I know that music taste is subjective Well, clearly not... And, to say WBT isn't a good song is just ignorant. |
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 23, 2009 8:05:19 GMT -5
^ Oh please. Don't twist my words, why didn't you quote my whole post?
I stated my opinion and if you don't agree it's not my problem. I'm still entitled to it and it's still weird to me, but I respect who made that list, because obviously not everyone likes that song. It's not like I'm gonna sue them because they didn't include a Mariah Carey song.
Now, since "Pitchfork" isn't pro-commercially successful songs, I can understand why WBT is not there.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 23, 2009 8:32:26 GMT -5
I'm not twisting your words. Saying that you know music is subjective and then calling someone ignorant because they don't like a song you do makes you a hypocrite. There are no two ways about it.
I love how every time a st@n comes in here to complain their artist isn't on the Pitchfork list they argue for a bit, then give up and say something about that website being 'anti-commercial songs'. Firstly, if you thought that to begin with, why complain at all? Secondly, "Crazy In Love", "Umbrella", "1 Thing", "Since U Been Gone", etc. would beg to differ.
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#LisaRinna
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Post by #LisaRinna on Aug 23, 2009 8:56:31 GMT -5
^ First of all I'm by no means a st@n. Just because I like an artist and enjoy the music she makes, it doesn't mean I st@n for her. Like I said, I won't cartainly sue Pitchfork because they didn't include We Belong Together.
I didn't know Pitchfork highlighted songs with less commercial success until someone pointed it out, so I couldn't have thought that. And the song you listed are like 0.5% of the ones that made the list, so they don't represent the majority.
Yes, music is subjective but to say a song isn't good because you don't like it is whining and lacks objectivity, that's why I said it was ignorant. There are plenty of artists/songs I dislike, but if they have quality I won't say they're not good just because I don't like them, for sure.
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CammyCan
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Post by CammyCan on Aug 23, 2009 23:53:42 GMT -5
Anyone find a P4K torrent yet?  |
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Nevermind
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Post by Nevermind on Aug 24, 2009 1:10:33 GMT -5
Anyone find a zip/rar. file yet? |
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*Who Is?*
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Post by *Who Is?* on Aug 24, 2009 1:49:40 GMT -5
Honestly, I like Mariah and all, and I was singing We Belong Together for a while... but I can think of plenty of songs that would knock that right out the Top 20 when comparing the songs of this decade. In my personal opinion... it seems as if songs that did not conform to pop standards of the time and were unique would pull higher numbers on the list.
When you go outside the box and make songs like Hey Ya, Get Ur Freak On, Crazy, Paper Planes , BOB... I think these are songs that show uniqueness...not necessarily high charting songs, but they make people go..."Hey, whats that?"
When I think about Crazy In Love, Umbrella, 1 Thing, We Belong Together... it just makes me think of pop, and purely pop... made to be catchy, do well on radio and sell millions of records, basically a packaged product.
Dont get me wrong, I damn sure love those four songs I just named... but the thing is, when I think of Paper Planes or Crazy, I see it being made by an artist.. and it dosent remind me of today's pop music. But when I think of WBT or Crazy In Love, the first thing I think of is it being made for entertainment and I immediately think of the greedy record companies who gobbled up the sales of those songs.
It seems as if anybody is going to make a list of biggest songs of the decade, let it be an artist before an entertainer.
Commercially though, WBT was the biggest song of the decade.
PS...
Lemme add on another note that songs like CIL, WBT, Umbrella, and 1T just do better at being pop songs than other songs that come on the radio, so some of these do deserve to be on a list, just not as high as the unique out of the box songs...
PSPS....
And before my words are twisted by the s.tans and trolls, I never said Beyonce, Mimi, Amerie, and Riri were "entertainers"... I said those particular songs made me think about songs purely made for entertainment...
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antidote
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Post by antidote on Aug 26, 2009 4:20:39 GMT -5
No? Tell me what other song had more than 250 million airplay on 5 different formats, sold 1+ million downloads, moved 2 million copies of its parent album and stayed at #1 for 14 weeks this decade THIS:  That song is awesome! But in all seriousness, "Aserejé (The Ketchup Song)" is actually the most successful song of the decade in France. :o |
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Pikachu.
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Post by Pikachu. on Aug 26, 2009 9:39:25 GMT -5
Oh dear, you really are stereotypically American. biggest or not, WBT was huge hit and it's very good song, not just another successful trash like BBP. This list makes me laugh, all the craps they put on it, and WBT didn't make it in top 500. Please, be honest and tell me: Do you really think Lip Gloss is better than WBT? Seeing Lip Gloss, Oh, Toxic, Crazy In Love... just makes me laugh. Oh please. Toxic and CIL are miles better than that overratedbecauseofcommercialsuccesstypicalrnbshit WBT, regardless of the fact that i like it too. |
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