What major influences are missing from Alt/Rock?

[The Party Captain]

I just went to a Springsteen concert tonight and was totally blown away. On the way home, I came to the conclusion that Springsteen may be one of the greatest rock stars of all time, but I feel the amount of bands that are majorly influenced by him (The Killers, The Wallflowers) are not as common as I would expect.

I would say Kurt Cobain and Pearl Jam's influence vastly overshadow the influences of Springsteen, Chuck Berry and other rock staples.

Take today's big bands. Shinedown, Kings of Leon, Nickelback, etc. They could all be considered alternative or post-grunge. For example, bands similar to the E Street Band like DMB, Blues Traveler, are no longer staples of rock. We have a new name for them: Jam.

Has Alternative taken over rock?

[pen]

If anything I wish pop rock would make a return to Alternative. I see no reason why bands like Goo Goo Dolls, Third Eye Blind, Sister Hazel, and their ilk couldn't make a return to rock radio. It's so unfair.

It's funny that all the recent bands I can think of that were somewhat Americana rock influenced, like Silvertide, Driveblind, American Minor, and The Parlor Mob have all done pretty poorly. I guess there's not much call for that style on Alternative.

[WotUNeed]

I think you'll find most of the modern artists who have the kinds of influences you're describing are the ones who can only count on the AAA format for airplay.

Other major rock artists whose disciples are generally absent from Alt radio include Tom Petty and Neil Young. To a degree, even the Stones fall into this category, although I think they have more of a presence than the more Americana-leaning acts.

Then again, some artists who I might place in this category are the kinds, if you asked the influences of the influences of the current Alt radio darlings, you might come back to them. But my ears aren't good enough to pick out things that subtle, so I'll leave that kind of assessment to the sharper folks amongst us.

[The Party Captain]

I would say that a lot of rock legends have started to influence other genres more. For instance, if you play a new song by the Eagles, people consider it country. I've heard people call Tom Petty folk.

Thanks to Cobain, I think rock has come to mean simply something "heavy" in many people's minds.

[The Party Captain]

Also, perhaps the time of rock is done. All music has an era. Disco died. Doo-wop died. Perhaps we should call today's music something else. Over time, rock has been expanded so much that the only real constant among all rock is guitar.

[American Idiot]

Nov 4, 2009 2:29:20 GMT -5 pen said:

If anything I wish pop rock would make a return to Alternative. I see no reason why bands like Goo Goo Dolls, Third Eye Blind, Sister Hazel, and their ilk couldn't make a return to rock radio. It's so unfair.

Completely 100% agree. I don't understand why most Alternative stations now will once in a blue moon go to the old hits of bands like The Goo Goo Dolls, Collective Soul, and others but never play any of their stuff just because Pop Rock is now solely played for the most part on Hot AC/AAA formatted stations.

[onefrayedrepublic]

To answer the original question, one word:

SKA

[Pipa]

Nov 4, 2009 10:47:43 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

Thanks to Cobain, I think rock has come to mean simply something "heavy" in many people's minds.

This. It's what's made rock radio a lot more monotonous for me now than it was 8 years ago.

[My Life Is A Stereo]

Nov 4, 2009 18:24:50 GMT -5 Pipa said:

Nov 4, 2009 10:47:43 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

Thanks to Cobain, I think rock has come to mean simply something "heavy" in many people's minds.

This. It's what's made rock radio a lot more monotonous for me now than it was 8 years ago.

Absolutely agree with this too. I was listening to some 90's "alternative" last night. Bands like Better Than Ezra, Gin Blossoms, Goo Goo Dolls and realized for the most part that those songs would have no place on todays "rock" radio. We are in a complete radio time with emphasis placed on heavier music, even in the alt scene. Alternative doesn't so much carry the indie and more pop rock influenced bands like it once did.

I guess that happens when the average listener always stays the same general age. Meaning that rock radio doesn't cater as much to the average joe who listened to rock radio 10-15 years ago. They move on to that 18-29 crowd that is into "today's" rock scene.

I just wish that AAA would actually get more respect because that's where some of these great bands could get that airplay and I know that there is a market of older crowds (and younger who are into it) that would eat up new stuff by these types of bands. For the most part people don't have a clue that new albums are even released by some of these older types of bands.

Examples, Everclear has a new song out....not many know that. Living Colour has a great new song out called Behind The Sun, rock radio will never hear it even though it could easily be played there. Vertical Horizon was completely overlooked on rock radio with a great first single.

Overall it's disappointing even though there is a good music on rock radio for the invested individuals.

[American Idiot]

^ That is exactly what my thoughts are. So many bands that loved over a decade ago and still do are still making material now, but if you ask most teenage-aged listeners of an Alternative station now, I'd assume most of them wouldn't know much about these bands that were huge during the 90s except maybe the recurrents that are played occasionally. I do understand though that a lot of the stuff I listened to 10-15 years ago wouldn't fit with the rest of what you see on the charts now, so I agree, give the AC formats some more recognition then!

Also, I can't believe I didn't think of this before, but yes SKA needs to make a comeback! Bands like Less Than Jake, Reel Big Fish, and The Mighty Mighty Bosstones are awesome s**t.

[The Party Captain]

In some ways, I think the "attitude" of rock has come to overshadow the actual rock itself.

[jdmasta289]

Nov 4, 2009 23:22:08 GMT -5 My Life Is A Stereo said:

I guess that happens when the average listener always stays the same general age. Meaning that rock radio doesn't cater as much to the average joe who listened to rock radio 10-15 years ago. They move on to that 18-29 crowd that is into "today's" rock scene.

I actually think radio has catered more to an older crowd than they did last decade. Such a behavior would explain the excess of dominantly spun material from bands who peaked years ago. '90s bands like Weezer, NIN, and RHCP automatically dominate whereas new bands like Phoenix routinely either don't stand the light of day or have to trudge their way up the countdown for months before reaching a respectable, though hardly dominant, position. Turnover and progression and evolution of sound has slowed with time. It's a shame, but I believe this to be true. *Edit* And this is because 30-somethings don't listen to the Manchester Orchestras and Airborne Toxic Events, for lack of a better term.

Talk to any individual my age, and they will tell you that the Manchester Orchestras, Airborne Toxic Events, Muses, Atreyus, and Avenged Sevenfolds dominate the musical scene. Not Weezer or the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Whereas the latter age range will likely say the latter. And in many ways, both crowds are correct. The former group dominates among the former crowd and the latter group dominates among the latter crowd.

The real problem, in my opinion? Radio hasn't maintained relevance because of the dominant spin of old material.

[pen]

Nov 5, 2009 1:04:32 GMT -5 The Party Captain said:

In some ways, I think the "attitude" of rock has come to overshadow the actual rock itself.

I remember when Hinder started bragging about how they were bringing real rock back to the world. That was when I started to hate them.

[Nicholas2.0]

Nov 5, 2009 2:49:52 GMT -5 pen said:

I remember when Hinder started bragging about how they were bringing real rock back to the world. That was when I started to hate them.

Saliva said something similar with their Survival of the Sickest album 5 years ago. Basically, I hate when any band says they're bringing the balls back to rock & roll, or something to that effect.

That also goes for Ozzfest bands 8, 9, and 10 years ago, begging crowds to vote the hell out of them on TRL, to get rid of teen-pop.

[My Life Is A Stereo]

Nov 5, 2009 1:42:26 GMT -5 jdmasta289 said:

Nov 4, 2009 23:22:08 GMT -5 My Life Is A Stereo said:

I guess that happens when the average listener always stays the same general age. Meaning that rock radio doesn't cater as much to the average joe who listened to rock radio 10-15 years ago. They move on to that 18-29 crowd that is into "today's" rock scene.

Talk to any individual my age, and they will tell you that the Manchester Orchestras, Airborne Toxic Events, Muses, Atreyus, and Avenged Sevenfolds dominate the musical scene. Not Weezer or the Red Hot Chili Peppers. Whereas the latter age range will likely say the latter. And in many ways, both crowds are correct. The former group dominates among the former crowd and the latter group dominates among the latter crowd.

That's a strange argument to make considering the "Weezers and RHCP's" of the rock world still not only put out good music (and I know lots of early to mid 20-somethings that love it) but they also sell out huge stadium shows. They are doing nothing but putting out music and working it has nothing to do with blocking the newcomers. They need to earn the respect of the average rock listener before they get huge radio love. It's always been like that. The difference now is that with internet being so huge over the last 8-10 years in the growth of the musical listeners advantage to being exposed to this music.

The reality is that most people are not "us". They don't spend as much time pouring over music as we do. I listen to pretty much every band you mentioned in your comment. I happen to think Muse is one of the top bands in the world today. I'm just not understanding how you would not accept that, even if you don't like those bands(weezer, rhcp, etc) that they have paid their dues and have HUGE fan bases, whether you are part of it or not. Those bands will have their day, if they continue to put out good material and grow. Otherwise they will be the Nixons, Verve Pipe, Elastica and Fastball's of the world. Bands that had hit songs but no real follow up to grow with the radio rock crowd. And if you are a 20 something that doesn't know who those bands are then my point is made again. Its all about building on initial respect that you have to earn. 15 years from now, there will be 30 somethings that have no idea who Manchester Orchestra is if they don't follow up.

My biggest point is that rock radio does NOT, in any way, shape or form cater to people like us. They cater to the average listener who will buy what the radio plays and tells them to buy. That is like KFC, a recipe destined to never change

[The Party Captain]

^That is a very insightful response.