renfield75
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Post by renfield75 on May 12, 2010 19:23:13 GMT -5
Like I said, what difference does it make, if "I'm Your Angel" debuted or didn't debut at #1? That's where it peaked. I understand why Billboard does not look at it as a #1 debut, But, as others have pointed out, it's odd to look at one single one way (IYA) and another single another way (such as a track that appeared in the top 40 on the test chart prior to the 12/5/98 chart). Maybe because IYA appeared in its peak position on the 12/5 chart, whereas something like "Wide Open Spaces" did not? Who knows. Peaks were not altered by this switch. Chart runs included the test charts though But you didn't respond to my question about "Wide Open Spaces" (or LeeAnn Womack's "A Little Past Little Rock," which officially peaked at #43 on 12/5/98 even though it had been as high as #34 on the 11/21/98 test chart). The peaks of these songs ARE altered by the switch. "I'm Your Angel" is not relevant to this conversation, unless you discount the top 40 peaks for the Dixie Chicks and LeeAnn Womack on the test charts, which then negates the #46 ranking of "I'm Your Angel" on the 11/28/98 chart. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of it, and it's all water under the Billboard bridge now; I'm just curious what you think about the top 40 standing of these songs since you agree that IYA moved 46-1 and that it "won't even be an asterisk." Did "Wide Open Spaces" peak at #28 (or higher) or #41? |
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2010 20:22:51 GMT -5
Holy crap, Mariah has 3 singles debuting at #1 on that list. Amazing! Because they repressed her singles until her airplay was very high. |
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on May 12, 2010 20:36:01 GMT -5
Holy crap, Mariah has 3 singles debuting at #1 on that list. Amazing! Because they repressed her singles until her airplay was very high. I was thinking this, but it's still a great feat. |
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on May 12, 2010 22:59:47 GMT -5
Peaks were not altered by this switch. Chart runs included the test charts though But you didn't respond to my question about "Wide Open Spaces" (or LeeAnn Womack's "A Little Past Little Rock," which officially peaked at #43 on 12/5/98 even though it had been as high as #34 on the 11/21/98 test chart). The peaks of these songs ARE altered by the switch. "I'm Your Angel" is not relevant to this conversation, unless you discount the top 40 peaks for the Dixie Chicks and LeeAnn Womack on the test charts, which then negates the #46 ranking of "I'm Your Angel" on the 11/28/98 chart. I'm not trying to argue for the sake of it, and it's all water under the Billboard bridge now; I'm just curious what you think about the top 40 standing of these songs since you agree that IYA moved 46-1 and that it "won't even be an asterisk." Did "Wide Open Spaces" peak at #28 (or higher) or #41? What did Billboard list in the "peak" column for those songs after the switch? |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 12, 2010 23:14:47 GMT -5
Holy crap, Mariah has 3 singles debuting at #1 on that list. Amazing! Because they repressed her singles until her airplay was very high. LOL, you're wrong. Thats impossible, because we are talking about debut singles going straight to #1, which means if they had repressed these singles she would've have debuted on the charts somewhere with the airplay alone before becoming #1. Bow down and give the woman some respect! |
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CammyCan
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Post by CammyCan on May 12, 2010 23:20:31 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale.
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 12, 2010 23:25:58 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale. Ok, perfect...if that's the case then there wasn't any repressing to begin with. Because repressing is when you let the single go high as possible with airplay alone, and then release the single for sale to get it to go even higher, preferably to #1. |
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Post by ΣGØ.©[/IMG] on May 12, 2010 23:37:47 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale. SONNED I actually didn't know that though. |
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David
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Post by David on May 12, 2010 23:40:47 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale. Ok, perfect...if that's the case then there wasn't any repressing to begin with. Because repressing is when you let the single go high as possible with airplay alone, and then release the single for sale to get it to go even higher, preferably to #1. Repressing has nothing to do with waiting for it to chart on the Hot 100. Repressing means holding off on releasing a single so airplay can build up. It just so happened at that time a song couldn't chart on the Hot 100 on airplay alone. It had to have a commercial single release. |
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Legoman
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Post by Legoman on May 12, 2010 23:43:33 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale. Ok, perfect...if that's the case then there wasn't any repressing to begin with. Because repressing is when you let the single go high as possible with airplay alone, and then release the single for sale to get it to go even higher, preferably to #1. That's what she exactly did. |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 12, 2010 23:47:17 GMT -5
No, you couldn't chart on the Hot 100 at that time with airplay alone. You had to have a commercial single for sale. SONNED I actually didn't know that though. Sonned? I didn't even bring the airplay up to begin with..  |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 12, 2010 23:52:39 GMT -5
Ok, perfect...if that's the case then there wasn't any repressing to begin with. Because repressing is when you let the single go high as possible with airplay alone, and then release the single for sale to get it to go even higher, preferably to #1. Repressing has nothing to do with waiting for it to chart on the Hot 100. Repressing means holding off on releasing a single so airplay can build up. It just so happened at that time a song couldn't chart on the Hot 100 on airplay alone. It had to have a commercial single release. OK... Fantasy was released on Sep 12th - it debuted at #1 on Sept 30th One Sweet Day was released on Nov. 14th - it debuted at #1 on Dec 2nd Honey was released on Aug. 26th - it debut at #1 on Sept. 13th I don't see how that's repressing.. |
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on May 12, 2010 23:54:30 GMT -5
Repressing has nothing to do with waiting for it to chart on the Hot 100. Repressing means holding off on releasing a single so airplay can build up. It just so happened at that time a song couldn't chart on the Hot 100 on airplay alone. It had to have a commercial single release. OK... Fantasy was released on Sep 12th - it debuted at #1 on Sept 30th One Sweet Day was released on Nov. 14th - it debuted at #1 on Dec 2nd Honey was released on Aug. 26th - it debut at #1 on Sept. 13th I don't see how that's repressing.. Issue dates? |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 12, 2010 23:58:42 GMT -5
OK... Fantasy was released on Sep 12th - it debuted at #1 on Sept 30th One Sweet Day was released on Nov. 14th - it debuted at #1 on Dec 2nd Honey was released on Aug. 26th - it debut at #1 on Sept. 13th I don't see how that's repressing.. Issue dates? Don't know, look it up...you mean Billboard issue? |
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on May 13, 2010 0:00:53 GMT -5
Don't know, look it up...you mean Billboard issue? Yes. |
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Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815...
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Post by Me. I Am l!nk!nfan815... on May 13, 2010 0:07:45 GMT -5
I don't know if its the issue date, but on that list Billboard provided it tells you the debuted date when the single hit #1
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 0:26:07 GMT -5
They let Mariah's singles build up airplay on the airplay chart for weeks and weeks, until it was very high, and then they released the commercial single, that's how she debuted at #1 those 3 times. She wasn't the only one who did it. Every single one of those #1 debuts between Sep 1995 and Nov 1998 all debuted at #1 for the same reason. Repressing the commerical single until the airplay was very high. Notice how the #1 debuts suddenly stopped after Nov 1998 and didn't start again until a few Idol coronation singles debuted at #1 during the early to mid 2000s?
That's not a coincidence.
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on May 13, 2010 1:44:59 GMT -5
You need to compare the airplay debut dates to the sales debut dates for the 90s #1 debuts.
The only song from the 90s to debut at #1 that did not do so because of repression was Candle in the Wind 1997.
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on May 13, 2010 1:53:33 GMT -5
One Sweet Day charted for 6 weeks on airplay before its Hot 100 debut.
Fantasy and Exhale both charted for 3 weeks on airplay before their Hot 100 debuts.
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Post by Deleted on May 13, 2010 1:56:08 GMT -5
You need to compare the airplay debut dates to the sales debut dates for the 90s #1 debuts. The only song from the 90s to debut at #1 that did not do so because of repression was Candle in the Wind 1997. You're right. "Candle in the Wind 1997" is the one exception. Because anticipation was so high for that single when it came out, and it sold over 2 milliion copies its first week out(still the highest amount of physical singles ever sold in one week), a #1 debut was inevitable, and not contingent on any airplay it did or did not have. |
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Post by neverduplicated on May 13, 2010 3:00:50 GMT -5
I don't think repressing those particular Mariah singles made a big difference. "Fantasy" spent 8 weeks at #1 and "One Sweet Day" spent 16 weeks at #1, and both went double platinum, so presumably they would've hit #1 regardless. "Honey" peaked in airplay after only 4 weeks on the airplay chart, so I doubt repression made a difference in that one either.
Was it common practice at the time to release physical singles to line up with airplay peak? That seems only logical to me for physical singles because they had a short life anyway, so might as well maximize sales while the song has the most popularity. Digital singles are a different story, though, because they can technically sell an unlimited amount (well, only limited by population) since record companies don't actually have to ship anything, so there's really no point in repressing digital singles.
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Tanisha Thomas.
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Post by Tanisha Thomas. on May 13, 2010 3:04:31 GMT -5
I don't think anyone is denying Mariah's success after the repression tactic. But repression helped those songs debut at #1.
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summers
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Post by summers on May 13, 2010 4:08:26 GMT -5
Well, the thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, almost all singles released during that era were 'repressed' somehow (maybe with the exception candle in the wind - there may be other examples, but I believe these were the exception, not the rule). It didn't make sense back then to release a physical single of a song that no one ever heard. So physical release was almost always a few weeks after the radio release. Obviously, only a handful were popular enough to have a high enough first week sales to land on the top.
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fridayteenage
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Post by fridayteenage on May 13, 2010 4:53:36 GMT -5
I scoured my old posts.
The week BEFORE their releases, here is where each song was on Hot 100 Airplay:
#18 Doo Wop
#23 I’m Your Angel
#2 I Don’t Want to Miss a Thing
#1 My Heart Will Go On
#24 Candle in the Wind 1997
#11 Honey
#36 I’ll Be Missing You
#2 One Sweet Day
#19 Exhale
#3 Fantasy
#8 You Are Not Alone
So if airplay-only singles were able to chart on H100 at the time, looks like all these would have before they were released.
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erzo01
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Post by erzo01 on May 13, 2010 6:37:02 GMT -5
Courtesy of Charly 1300 Forums
Billboard Hot 100 (May 22, 2010)
01 NE 01 Eminem, Not Afraid
02 01 06 Usher Featuring will.i.am, OMG
03 02 15 B.o.B Featuring Bruno Mars, Nothin' On You
04 04 11 Taio Cruz Featuring Ludacris, Break Your Heart
05 07 04 B.o.B Featuring Eminem & Hayley Williams, Airplanes
06 03 13 Rihanna, Rude Boy
07 06 32 Train, Hey, Soul Sister
08 08 13 Ke$ha, Your Love Is My Drug
09 NE 01 3OH!3 Featuring Ke$ha, My First Kiss
10 05 39 Lady Antebellum, Need You Now
11 16 06 Lady GaGa, Alejandro
12 10 17 Jay-Z + Mr. Hudson, Young Forever
13 09 22 Jason Derülo, In My Head
14 13 24 Lady GaGa Featuring Beyoncé, Telephone
15 11 11 Ludacris Featuring Nicki Minaj, My Chick Bad
16 NE 01 Glee Cast Featuring Jonathan Groff, Total Eclipse Of The Heart
17 14 09 Drake, Over
18 15 07 Sean Kingston & Justin Bieber, Eenie Meenie
19 12 23 The Script, Breakeven
20 17 23 The Black Eyed Peas, Imma Be
21 19 31 Ke$ha, TiK ToK
22 28 06 Travie McCoy Featuring Bruno Mars, Billionaire
23 29 10 La Roux, Bulletproof
24 18 21 Adam Lambert, Whataya Want From Me
25 21 14 Kevin Rudolf Featuring Birdman, Jay Sean & Lil Wayne, I Made It (Cash Money Heroes)
26 20 26 Trey Songz Featuring Fabolous, Say Aah
27 22 23 Timbaland Featuring Justin Timberlake, Carry Out
28 30 32 Michael Bublé, Haven't Met You Yet
29 23 31 OneRepublic, All The Right Moves
30 32 05 Jamie Foxx Featuring Justin Timberlake & T.I., Winner
31 25 28 Lady GaGa, Bad Romance
32 24 17 Usher Featuring Plies, Hey Daddy (Daddy's Home)
33 36 07 Miranda Lambert, The House That Built Me
34 NE 01 Drake, Find Your Love
35 NE 01 Young Jeezy Featuring Plies, Lose My Mind
36 62 02 The Black Eyed Peas, Rock That Body
37 27 17 Lady Antebellum, American Honey
38 26 16 Justin Bieber Featuring Ludacris, Baby
39 33 13 Iyaz, Solo
40 35 20 Selena Gomez & The Scene, Naturally
41 34 11 Joe Nichols, Gimmie That Girl
42 31 24 Young Money Featuring Lloyd, BedRock
43 39 12 DJ Khaled Featuring T-Pain, Ludacris, Snoop Dogg & Rick Ross, All I Do Is Win
44 37 08 Timbaland Featuring Katy Perry, If We Ever Meet Again
45 38 48 The Black Eyed Peas, I Gotta Feeling
46 44 05 Alicia Keys, Un-Thinkable (I'm Ready)
47 46 04 Christina Aguilera, Not Myself Tonight
48 41 28 Kris Allen, Live Like We're Dying
49 40 10 Usher Featuring Nicki Minaj, Lil Freak
50 45 40 David Guetta Featuring Akon, Sexy Chick
51 48 10 Chris Young, The Man I Want To Be
52 43 11 Trey Songz, Neighbors Know My Name
53 55 05 Nickelback, This Afternoon
54 51 07 Jaron And The Long Road To Love, Pray For You
55 52 10 Kenny Chesney, Ain't Back Yet
56 50 13 Monica, Everything To Me
57 71 03 Shontelle, Impossible
58 49 11 Lloyd Banks Featuring Juelz Santana, Beamer, Benz, Or Bentley
59 58 07 Luke Bryan, Rain Is A Good Thing
60 42 18 Timbaland Featuring Drake, Say Something
61 NE 01 Glee Cast Featuring Jonathan Groff, Run Joey Run
62 59 08 T.I., I'm Back
63 56 07 Young Money, Roger That
64 85 02 Mike Posner Featuring Big Sean, Cooler Than Me
65 68 07 Colbie Caillat, I Never Told You
66 60 14 Rascal Flatts, Unstoppable
67 66 08 Usher, There Goes My Baby
68 57 17 Zac Brown Band, Highway 20 Ride
69 75 06 Clay Walker, She Won't Be Lonely Long
70 67 10 Eric Church, Hell On The Heart
71 72 10 Steel Magnolia, Keep On Lovin' You
72 69 11 Justin Moore, Backwoods
73 78 04 Brad Paisley, Water
74 NE 01 Glee Cast, Ice Ice Baby
75 89 02 Jerrod Niemann, Lover, Lover
76 76 04 Jason Aldean, Crazy Town
77 77 08 George Strait, I Gotta Get To You
78 74 19 Lil Wayne Featuring Eminem, Drop The World
79 63 08 Spose, I'm Awesome
80 73 18 Ke$ha Featuring 3OH!3, Blah Blah Blah
81 80 18 Young Money Featuring Gucci Mane, Steady Mobbin'
82 88 07 Martina McBride, Wrong Baby Wrong
83 86 18 Easton Corbin, A Little More Country Than That
84 65 02 Shakira, Gypsy
85 81 16 Taylor Swift, Today Was A Fairytale
86 87 20 Blake Shelton Featuring Trace Adkins, Hillbilly Bone
87 82 06 Diddy - Dirty Money Featuring T.I., Hello Good Morning
88 95 02 David Guetta & Chris Willis Featuring Fergie & LMFAO, Gettin' Over You
89 NE 01 Glee Cast Featuring Olivia Newton-John, Physical
90 92 03 Reba, I Keep On Loving You
91 54 04 Miranda Cosgrove, Kissin U
92 NE 01 Glee Cast, U Can't Touch This
93 84 20 Carrie Underwood, Temporary Home
94 91 13 Miley Cyrus, When I Look At You
95 RE 02 Carrie Underwood, Undo It
96 79 03 Ciara Featuring Ludacris, Ride
97 NE 01 Lee Brice, Love Like Crazy
98 97 05 Kelly Clarkson, All I Ever Wanted
99 NE 01 Theory Of A Deadman, All Or Nothing
100 99 05 Breaking Benjamin, Give Me A Sign (Forever And Ever)
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Post by drummerman2009 on May 13, 2010 6:55:07 GMT -5
Anyone have the Bubbling Under Hot 100?
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Black Jesus
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Post by Black Jesus on May 13, 2010 7:49:17 GMT -5
wtf how did 133k and a Top 10 single on Pop only put Alejandro at #11?
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on May 13, 2010 8:22:12 GMT -5
Thanks for the chart.
89 NE 01 Glee Cast Featuring Olivia Newton-John, Physical
Olivia Newton-John lands her 39th Hot 100 entry this week. As a note, "I Honestly Love You" charted at #1 originally, then charted a few years later (with a different catalog number), and then in her re-recorded version in 1998).
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on May 13, 2010 9:06:46 GMT -5
Well, the thing is, and correct me if I'm wrong here, almost all singles released during that era were 'repressed' somehow (maybe with the exception candle in the wind - there may be other examples, but I believe these were the exception, not the rule). It didn't make sense back then to release a physical single of a song that no one ever heard. So physical release was almost always a few weeks after the radio release. Obviously, only a handful were popular enough to have a high enough first week sales to land on the top. Well, let's be clear on a few things. 1. "It doesn't make sense to release a physical single of a song that no one ever heard." This isn't really true -- if you hear a song on the radio, and want to buy it, it would make sense to be able to buy it. The logic isn't any different really from digital single availability -- although there is more incentive in the digital era since it is much easier to find a free copy of the song if it's not available for sale. Most songs were available as singles as soon as possible, until the mid-90s. 2. The reason for the change in the mid-90s is partially due to a change in Billboard chart policy. Previously, a song debuted on the Hot 100 the same week it was *scheduled* to be released in stores -- so often the debut week on the charts was with minimal sales (if any), and the first full sales week was actually the song's second chart week. As record labels began toying with release dates and making last minute changes (if a single is scheduled to be released, and at the last minute, the label delays it 3 weeks, that puts the song in an awkward limbo if it has already debuted based on its initial scheduled date), Billboard changed the rule to say a song would only debut when actual sales had been registered. 3. This change in policy allowed record labels to engineer higher debuts by "repressing" until airplay had climbed a sufficient amount. This also tied in with a new marketing technique where labels began viewing singles as "promotional tools" rather than profitable items themselves, and experimented with delaying (or withholding entirely) singles to try to boost album sales. They also began treating singles as promotional by steeply discounting them to even be below their physical production cost (basically giving them away to record stores), to further boost the single's chart success. I am guessing the theory was that having a song that was #1 served as promotion for the album, where the actual profit was made. Mariah gets a lot of attention/flack for her chart success in this era because her label used as many of these techniques as possible. But she definitely was not the only one, and this doesn't detract from her success. I do think she cared about chart numbers more than most other artists, but that was also largely because she was already doing so well, she wanted to cement being #1. One of the most interesting tidbits from the tail-end of this era is when Destiny's Child's label deliberately scheduled the release of "Bootylicious" to coincide with Mariah's "Loverboy" to try to block that song from #1 -- and it worked. Although, in retrospect, if "Loverboy" had hit #1 it would have been by far her most circumspect #1 -- I don't think it even cracked the top 50 in airplay? (P.S. -- If I have any data from above wrong, feel free to correct me!) |
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on May 13, 2010 9:10:55 GMT -5
^"Loverboy" peaked at #50 on Hot 100 Airplay. It also was "easier" to take advantage of "repressed" singles 1995-on, as that's when a number of big radio hits were not being released commercially- hence, less competition. That's why something like "My All' or "Thank God I Found You" could peak at #1 while "only" peaking at #15 on Hot 100 Airplay. Well, heavily discounted CD singles also didn't hurt sales potential.
The charts are a long-established game- which took on new game heights from the mid-90s-on. Some acts/labels play it better than others- that's all.
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