Rodze
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Post by Rodze on May 27, 2010 20:33:52 GMT -5
Let me rephrase it for you: Just because Jive makes profit for them, the company, doesn't mean it is good for the artist. So you're saying the million dollars Jordin and David made this year went to Jive? No, I never mentioned Jordin and David. I'm not naming names because I don't have their account's balance sheet. Forbes' estimates are fortune telling at best (no pun intended); all the money David made might have been from concerts and not directly from his contract with the label; too much uncertainty to use them in this argument. What I'm saying is that, even if the label recoups all the money and a little more, the artist may get little to nothing off of it (especially if he/she has zero creative rights over the songs). Just that. Fixed. Your beef isn't with Jive. It's with the music industry. Yes, but this time Jive is the label to be bashed. We can hate on other labels on the thread below or above.
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 20:39:45 GMT -5
I guess we'll see how things work out. We could be surprised?
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Rodze
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Post by Rodze on May 27, 2010 20:41:01 GMT -5
I'm not even really talking about Crystal. I hope she's successful.
I'm just throwing shade on the label. haha
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 27, 2010 20:43:03 GMT -5
Yes, but this time Jive is the label to be bashed. We can hate on other labels on the thread below or above. But your argument isn't bashing Jive. It's bashing the system. If you want to bash Jive, then bash them for something that's specific to that label. Otherwise it's like cursing the rain for falling in the rain forest. Of course it's raining in the rain forest - it's a rain forest.
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 20:45:07 GMT -5
Yes, but this time Jive is the label to be bashed. We can hate on other labels on the thread below or above. But your argument isn't bashing Jive. It's bashing the system. If you want to bash Jive, then bash them for something that's specific to that label. Otherwise it's like cursing the rain for falling in the rain forest. Of course it's raining in the rain forest - it's a rain forest. Is it always raining in a rain forest? lol
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 27, 2010 20:48:01 GMT -5
But your argument isn't bashing Jive. It's bashing the system. If you want to bash Jive, then bash them for something that's specific to that label. Otherwise it's like cursing the rain for falling in the rain forest. Of course it's raining in the rain forest - it's a rain forest. Is it always raining in a rain forest? lol Pretty much, yes. lol. Drizzling at least.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 27, 2010 20:57:29 GMT -5
ROFLMAO at Crystal being signed to Jive. They're like the worst label ever for Idols Diana DeGarmo, Katharine McPhee, and Adam Lambert's first single have a different opinion on the matter. Jive is actually pretty good. Any label that can get Kris Allen a top 10 CHR hit obviously knows what they're doing. The only one they've completely screwed over is Allison. If any major label is going to make Crystal happen, it'll be Jive, but really she works best on an indie label....
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lockebox
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Post by lockebox on May 27, 2010 21:08:26 GMT -5
Which will work out fine, as she'll probably be on an Indie after getting dropped by Jive.
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 21:10:43 GMT -5
If she's a success, I don't think she'll be dropped.
They still have Wierd Al on their roster for heavens sake. lol
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 21:11:04 GMT -5
Is it always raining in a rain forest? lol Pretty much, yes. lol. Drizzling at least. haha I never knew.
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crazychick
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Post by crazychick on May 27, 2010 21:11:40 GMT -5
Jive just seems like an odd fit for Crystal. Most of their top selling artists are pop or pop/r&b types. Which isn't really the market Crystal's music fits in. I worry that they will try and change her and force her into a mainstream pop thing which wouldn't suit her. Doesn't Sony have any labels that cater to more adult, indie style music?
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crazychick
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Post by crazychick on May 27, 2010 21:17:43 GMT -5
Just because Jive makes profit for them, the company, doesn't mean it is good for the artist. Whatever. We can look forward to Crystal Bowersox ft. Susan Boyle. Jordin Sparks and David Archuleta both made over 1.5 million dollars this year, being signed to Jive. Jordin had an album that underperformed and David didn't have anything released, besides his Christmas album, which, sold what? 250k max, which is pretty good for a Christmas album. I'm sure they're not complaining :) And Kris has made more than 1.7 million, according to the updated Forbes article. Although some of that was from winner's perks. Jive seems more likely than RCA to turn a profit on artists that don't sell huge numbers of albums, because they don't tend to spend as much on promotion, etc. as RCA seems to. In turn, the recent Idols signed to Jive seem to do ok financially.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 27, 2010 21:34:55 GMT -5
If she's a success, I don't think she'll be dropped. They still have Wierd Al on their roster for heavens sake. lol Weird Al rocks!! lolol.
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 21:38:28 GMT -5
If she's a success, I don't think she'll be dropped. They still have Wierd Al on their roster for heavens sake. lol Weird Al rocks!! lolol. Ha, he is pretty funny.
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Rurry
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Post by Rurry on May 27, 2010 21:46:12 GMT -5
Jive just seems like an odd fit for Crystal. Most of their top selling artists are pop or pop/r&b types. Which isn't really the market Crystal's music fits in. I worry that they will try and change her and force her into a mainstream pop thing which wouldn't suit her. Doesn't Sony have any labels that cater to more adult, indie style music? Not really. She would've been better off without Sony.
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Post by Holy Toledo on May 27, 2010 21:48:08 GMT -5
There are a lot of "alternative" acts with Sony that do really well.
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StarSprinkles
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Post by StarSprinkles on May 27, 2010 21:53:11 GMT -5
She would have been better off refusing to sign with Jive and picking her own label, honestly. Since she did not win, she doesn't HAVE to sign with anyone, but she chose to sign with Jive.
She would have been much better off finding her own deal on a label that has artists like her.
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annabanana
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Post by annabanana on May 27, 2010 22:35:23 GMT -5
She would have been better off refusing to sign with Jive and picking her own label, honestly. Since she did not win, she doesn't HAVE to sign with anyone, but she chose to sign with Jive. She would have been much better off finding her own deal on a label that has artists like her. I believe the 19R labels have the right of first refusal.
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StarSprinkles
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Post by StarSprinkles on May 27, 2010 22:36:33 GMT -5
Actually, it's only RCA that has the right of first refusal. Oh and they're not "19R labels." It's Sony. Sony is not 19R.
BTW-as far as radio play goes, this song got 5 spins total across all formats, according to Billboard.
In the meantime, the pair's debut singles were released to iTunes and radio today. DeWyze's single, a cover of U2's "Beautiful Day," has, between midnight and 2 p.m. CST today (May 27), received 27 all-format spins, while Bowersox's version of Patty Griffin's "Up to the Mountain" has received 5 all-format spins, according to preliminary data provided by Nielsen BDS. Adult Pop Songs reporter WPST/Trenton, N.J. is leading the DeWyze charge, playing the song three times already. Adult Contemporary panelists WQAL/Cleveland and WWWM/Toledo are two of the five stations that have played native Ohioan Bowersox's song.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 27, 2010 23:40:38 GMT -5
No... it's 19R that has the right of first refusal. 19R owns all recordings by Idols signed to them--RCA does not own any recordings; Jive does not own any recordings. These labels merely license the recordings and act as the creative masters behind each album. 19R owns everything for all Idol contestants they choose to sign. When Crystal signed her contract at the beginning of this process, that was laid out, plain and clear. The decision as to which major label she signs with (Jive or RCA) is what will dictate how her album is eventually created and promoted, but 19R is still behind the scenes, owner of everything she produces.
Crystal could refuse to sign with 19R. 19R can't force her into servitude. But she would then have to wait a period of time before she could sign with anybody else or release music for sale (even independently). That's why former contestants like Jason Castro, Michael Johns, Brooke White, Melinda Doolittle, Elliott Yamin, etc. waited longer after their season to release anything. By contract, they had to.
There must be some benefit, however, to stick with the Idol contract if 19R wants to sign you, or else more runners-up would ditch 19R, wait the contractually designated amount of time, and then sign with another label. Some of it probably has to do with past contestants who don't sign with 19R never get signed at all simply because by the time they can sign a contract, nobody wants them anymore. The ones that do get signed don't seem to have the same kind of promotional power (except, perhaps, Jennifer Hudson who signed a deal after she won an Oscar, and so probably had more leverage to get a better recording contract).
Crystal doesn't strike me as the type who would get snatched up the moment the Idol contract runs out, if she had passed on 19R. It's a really risky proposition for her to take that chance, especially when this is supposed to be her career--one that is supposed to support her child.
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annabanana
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Post by annabanana on May 28, 2010 6:06:47 GMT -5
Soundscene is correct. Here is a link to MJ's post about idol contract: mjsbigblog.com/idol-contracts-no-fraternizing-with-the-judges-and-idol-record-advances.htmThe important excerpt is this: The second place finisher gets $150,000 when he/she starts recording their first album … and another $150,000 upon delivery. The second album gets the runner-up between $225,000 and $450,000 and so on.
As for 3rd through 12th place — if the label signs them — they each get $100,000 when he/she begins recording album #1 and another $100,000 upon delivery …
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SPRΞΞ
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Post by SPRΞΞ on May 28, 2010 10:39:20 GMT -5
so they're all rich basically.
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esoteric76
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Post by esoteric76 on May 28, 2010 12:04:22 GMT -5
There must be some benefit, however, to stick with the Idol contract Yeah, it's called an Advance. Annabanana has laid it out there for us. Mind you, the artists have to make that money last for a while, because they don't see future record royalties until the advance is recouped...
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 28, 2010 12:12:44 GMT -5
^^ I have to actually read the entire contract (which I haven't yet, I'm too lazy) to really understand it, but it's not merely an advance that's the benefit to signing with 19R, I don't believe. Every artist signed to a major label gets some sort of advance. Could be these advances (if they are indeed advances subject to recoupment) are better than average. I mean, really, most artists, even ones that sell well, never see a dime other than the advance because of recoupment. So the advance is pretty important.
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tinawina
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Post by tinawina on May 28, 2010 12:51:10 GMT -5
The advantage is, besides the advance and the money from the tour, she gets released on a major label while being backed by powerful management, and has access to the kind of national TV and print media that any other new artist wouldn't normally get near until after they have a smash hit. She will likely meet many high powered behind the scenes people all over the industry, especially in radio, as well as a host of professional songwriters and producers. She will likely get a publishing deal. Crystal will get to play shows all over the country promoting her record therefore getting a chance to grow a fanbase through touring. She will make personal appearances that pay nice money to sing for some big corporation's employees, etc.
Even if she flops after the year is up, she can go back to Ohio with enough money to buy a nice house big enough for her, her son and her dad to live very comfortably. She can set up a trust fund for her kid and buy some studio equipment. If she gets dropped, she will be able to record her own album and put it out on her own label, and will have enough name recognition to do a small tour in support of it. She would make enough money selling even 10,000 albums where she owns the masters that she could support her family.
Crystal would be nuts not to stick with 19/Jive for at least a year, IMO. As a second place finisher in her situation it makes no sense to do anything else.
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soundUPsceneDOWN
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Post by soundUPsceneDOWN on May 28, 2010 13:04:55 GMT -5
^^ I agree.
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esoteric76
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Post by esoteric76 on May 28, 2010 14:02:57 GMT -5
Nicely put, Tinawina.
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crazychick
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Post by crazychick on May 28, 2010 14:17:24 GMT -5
The advantage is, besides the advance and the money from the tour, she gets released on a major label while being backed by powerful management, and has access to the kind of national TV and print media that any other new artist wouldn't normally get near until after they have a smash hit. She will likely meet many high powered behind the scenes people all over the industry, especially in radio, as well as a host of professional songwriters and producers. She will likely get a publishing deal. Crystal will get to play shows all over the country promoting her record therefore getting a chance to grow a fanbase through touring. She will make personal appearances that pay nice money to sing for some big corporation's employees, etc. Even if she flops after the year is up, she can go back to Ohio with enough money to buy a nice house big enough for her, her son and her dad to live very comfortably. She can set up a trust fund for her kid and buy some studio equipment. If she gets dropped, she will be able to record her own album and put it out on her own label, and will have enough name recognition to do a small tour in support of it. She would make enough money selling even 10,000 albums where she owns the masters that she could support her family. Crystal would be nuts not to stick with 19/Jive for at least a year, IMO. As a second place finisher in her situation it makes no sense to do anything else. Yeah, as long as these people manage their money wisely and don't trust unsavory business advisers, etc. the ones who finish in the Top 2 on AI should be decently off in terms of finances even if they don't hit it big or even get dropped by their label. Most of them will never become truly rich -- few musicians in general could be called rich -- but they should be able to live comfortably. For instance, Adam is going to be able to buy a house here in L.A. when he decides to do that, and Kris has already bought land in Arkansas to build a home on. So Crystal should be able to give herself and her family a nice life no matter what.
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kellybcfan98
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Post by kellybcfan98 on May 28, 2010 14:42:10 GMT -5
REAL WINNER - CRYSTAL BOWERSOX!!! <3!!
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