Black Jesus
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Post by Black Jesus on Jan 30, 2011 19:04:58 GMT -5
I can already tell by the few lyrics of "Edge of Glory" that we have that it is going to be a real gem on the album.
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libri
Charting
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Post by libri on Jan 30, 2011 19:50:48 GMT -5
To be honest, I think these lyrics are the most self-indulgent things ever. It's kind of ridiculous how these lyrics, as cringe-worthy as they are, aren't being torn to shreds because it's GaGa. Any other artist singing this would be laughed at, mocked, and probably denied from pop radio. It's absurd, is what it is. I almost feel like GaGa did this to prove that she can get whatever she puts out played on radio, and for her sake I hope no one spins this and it fails so she can learn her place. Care to explain in what way the lyrics are the most self-indulgent things ever? I'm not being flippant here, I really would like to know. I can understand if they're seen as self-righteous, as a lot of inspirational songs are, but self-indulgent? ??? But anyway, um, over-dramatic much? I mean, just because you think the lyrics are bad, the song shouldn't get spins at all to teach her a lesson? LOL. If that was the case, then we'd just hear the same 2 songs over and over again on the radio, instead of, well, the same 2 dozens songs we do right now. Considering what we hear on the radio, to act like it's the worst song ever is just laughable. As I said, I don't see these lyrics as any worse than most inspirational songs. And yes, of course, radio is more likely to play songs from her because of her track record of hits, but that's also true for other established artists. Do you honestly think 'Mama's Song' would've done nearly as well as it did had it not been a Carrie Underwood's song? :)
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Black Jesus
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Post by Black Jesus on Jan 30, 2011 20:01:48 GMT -5
To be honest, I think these lyrics are the most self-indulgent things ever. It's kind of ridiculous how these lyrics, as cringe-worthy as they are, aren't being torn to shreds because it's GaGa. Any other artist singing this would be laughed at, mocked, and probably denied from pop radio. It's absurd, is what it is. I almost feel like GaGa did this to prove that she can get whatever she puts out played on radio, and for her sake I hope no one spins this and it fails so she can learn her place. Care to explain in what way the lyrics are the most self-indulgent things ever? I'm not being flippant here, I really would like to know. I can understand if they're seen as self-righteous, as a lot of inspirational songs are, but self-indulgent? ??? But anyway, um, over-dramatic much? I mean, just because you think the lyrics are bad, the song shouldn't get spins at all to teach her a lesson? LOL. If that was the case, then we'd just hear the same 2 songs over and over again on the radio, instead of, well, the same 2 dozens songs we do right now. Considering what we hear on the radio, to act like it's the worst song ever is just laughable. As I said, I don't see these lyrics as any worse than most inspirational songs. And yes, of course, radio is more likely to play songs from her because of her track record of hits, but that's also true for other established artists. Do you honestly think 'Mama's Song' would've done nearly as well as it did had it not been a Carrie Underwood's song? :)
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libri
Charting
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Post by libri on Jan 30, 2011 20:35:45 GMT -5
for her sake I hope no one spins this and it fails so she can learn her place. Many at other message boards and blogs I visit are echoing that same sentiment. They want her to fail completely so she'll have no chance of coming back. I think that's a little bit overboard and harsh, but some are just tired of her and think she has run her course and there's really no stone left unturned with her. I can assure you I can find those who feel the same way about pretty much any other artist. They're called haters ;). And I thought Stephen was being over-dramatic? LOL. Seriously, WTF? ??? No one can convince me that the lyrics apart from the check-list part are in the least bit any different from other inspirational songs, or any songs for that matter. So it must be the check-list part. Hmm...
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Post by when the pawn... on Jan 30, 2011 20:37:20 GMT -5
I have a few thoughts about the lyrics: I'm really, really proud of her for sending such a strong message to radio. If the song wasn't great/had no chance of success, there's no way her label would let her release it (I mean, she's huge, but they're all still looking to make money). And, okay, some of her fans may be alienated by the song, but really - go to one of her concerts - she's constantly preaching for equality and general gayness. She's walking the walk in her support of the LGBT community, and I find that refreshing. Also, let's consider the lyrics. By some standards, yes, the lyrics are "bad." However, considering the subject matter... I just find the thing ridiculously (and wonderfully) CAMPY. I'm shocked that I haven't been anyone that's used that word to describe them. I think campy Lady Gaga could be awesome, personally. And quite frankly, I'm sure most of the songs on this album will not be as campy, but here she's going for a new gay anthem, and I think (know) she'll get that from this song. Finally, even if this "ruins" her career - I don't really care. She's brilliant and as long as her output stays fresh and creative, I'll still be listening. She's got enough money now to do whatever she wants. If she has to start playing small town gay bars, whatever - she's still got me. And about bad lyrics and pop radio... let's not forget the successful hits Imma Be and whatever crap Kesha puts out. This this this.
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Mack
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Post by Mack on Jan 30, 2011 20:56:55 GMT -5
And about bad lyrics and pop radio... let's not forget the successful hits Imma Be and whatever crap Kesha puts out. The majority of Ke$ha's lyrics are completely irreverent, though. She clearly doesn't take herself seriously. That's the difference between Ke$ha and GaGa. Ke$ha knows that her music is "crap," whereas GaGa really seems to believe that hers is exceptionally clever and cutting-edge, even though the lyrics to this song are much, much worse than anything Ke$ha has written.
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libri
Charting
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Post by libri on Jan 30, 2011 22:03:05 GMT -5
And about bad lyrics and pop radio... let's not forget the successful hits Imma Be and whatever crap Kesha puts out. The majority of Ke$ha's lyrics are completely irreverent, though. She clearly doesn't take herself seriously. That's the difference between Ke$ha and GaGa. Ke$ha knows that her music is "crap," whereas GaGa really seems to believe that hers is exceptionally clever and cutting-edge, even though the lyrics to this song are much, much worse than anything Ke$ha has written. ^^Is that you, Ke$ha? Well, it's good to know that you know your music is crap. :)
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Jan 30, 2011 22:22:57 GMT -5
Lyrically, WRRWR > BTW. imo of course.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 30, 2011 22:28:20 GMT -5
Lyrically, WRRWR > BTW. imo of course. LOL We R Who We R is nothing but a hookfested fake attempt @ trying to achieve something. Born This Way is lyrically all GaGa and actually achieves something. Are they her best lyrics to date ??? No; however, it's more upfront about the issue and isn't blended in with some mindless hookfested pop mess.
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jan 30, 2011 22:30:31 GMT -5
BTW is really bad lyrically.... Ke$ha would never.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Jan 30, 2011 22:32:06 GMT -5
It's my opinion, though. Idc if GaGa is more direct and that Ke$ha was just attempting to cash in on the trend. WRWWR is lyrically better, imo.
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Post by kpasa on Jan 30, 2011 22:35:47 GMT -5
Actually, it's proven fact that 'We R Who We R' is a lyrical masterpiece so...
DragBye.
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Post by When I Ruled the World on Jan 30, 2011 22:44:08 GMT -5
Gaga knew what she was doing.
She said her new album would piss lots of people off. She also hinted that the music was so good that she would still make her fans happy.
The more hate there is against her for these lyrics, the more I feel like supporting her.
The lyrics made me uncomfortable the first time I read them... and I think that's a good thing! I need to be challenged, and obviously most of the world does too (including Pulse).
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Post by Peaches. [Ch, r. is] on Jan 30, 2011 22:51:57 GMT -5
The lyrics don't make me feel uncomfortable. I like the message, and the fact that she's going directly to the point. The way it's written, however, is just bad.
Telling the truth =/= hating.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Jan 30, 2011 22:56:43 GMT -5
The lyrics don't make me feel uncomfortable. I like the message, and the fact that she's going directly to the point. The way it's written, however, is just bad. Telling the truth =/= hating. +1
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Post by ListenToItTwice on Jan 31, 2011 8:00:38 GMT -5
The message actually would be a lot more powerful without in-your-face lyrics like "No matter gay, straight, or bi, lesbian, transgendered life" and "A different lover is not a sin." Then it would be just like those other songs which just skirted the issue. I think she's trying to confront it head on. Just like her speech for the DADT rally -- she's wasn't placating, she was taking the confrontational route with the 'if you don't like it, go home' slogan. She pointed out the injustice and the absurdity of DADT in that it was the gay soldiers who had done nothing wrong who got punished and fired for the sake of the straight soldiers who were "uncomfortable" with having gay people in their ranks. DADT punishes the innocents for the sake of the prejudiced -- it should've been the other way around. I think that's what she's trying to do here. And thus the in-your-face mention of LGBT. She's also confronting the main arguments used to justify homophobia -- that being gay is a choice (and thus they call it a 'lifestyle'), and that according to the bible, it's a sin for a man to sleep with another male. I guess the rumors are true -- she does have balls. Whether she's genuine or not about the cause, at least she's also willing to take a real risk for it. The same can't be said about others. She risks alienating a good chunk of her base -- nobody sells 5+ mil. albums these days without selling to middle America -- and potential fans. And if she somehow manages to make it a hit, the words LGBT will be all over the pop channels in the real sense of those words. I'm not crazy about the lyrics either. Her lyrics are usually a lot more opaque and could be interpreted in different ways. But apart from the check list part, I don't see them as any worse than most other inspirational songs. They're almost always cheesy. I think 'Beautiful' is cheesy, and 'I Believe I can Fly' is even cheesier. .... okay I really like what you're saying here. So you think this is much more about bringing an issue and a viewpoint (the correct viewpoint, no less ) straight to the forefront of public attention than it is about creating some kind of eternal gay anthem? BTW: For some reason I'm picturing the "checklist" as being more or less rapped á la "F**in' Perfect." I'm trying to decide whether that would make it more or less annoying.
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bat1990
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Post by bat1990 on Jan 31, 2011 11:19:29 GMT -5
Less than 2 weeks away...
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clarksodi
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Post by clarksodi on Jan 31, 2011 15:41:14 GMT -5
I feel like people who do not understand Lady GaGa as a person and as an artist are her main critics.
Lady GaGa’s entire artistic vision is built on the idea that you can be whoever you are and that you’re not alone. She’s amassed a large following of “little monsters” who support her and her mission—the “little monsters” being people who feel or have felt alone, who have felt like outcasts at some point, who feel or have felt insecurities, etc. Practically, every person is or has been a “little monster” at some point.
These lyrics may be campy and they may be overused. You know what makes them unique? The fact that they come from a person who fully sympathizes/empathizes with their meaning. GaGa is NOT trying to hop on the “it will get better” train—she is a living example and has been fighting, both politically and artistically, to get this message across even before the “it will get better” campaign was created. I believe the sincerity of her lyrics and her mission—if you doubt them, watch her speech on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. No one can say the same for any other pop artist (Aguilera, Britney, Ke$ha, and Katy Perry).
GaGa’s lyrics for “Born This Way” appeal to all of her “little monsters” who may feel unhappy with themselves. She does not address her song to just “gays”. It is a message for every “little monster”. Further, her message is unique in that it is simple, direct, and in my opinion, purposefully refrains from using any symbolism or metaphors (WRWWR lacked the direct message, while Firework needed interpretation). Further, the lyrics are written in the first person—a likely conscious effort to force the listener to eventually wind up singing “I’m beautiful in my way/’cause God makes no mistakes/I’m on the right track baby/I was born this way”, thereby creating a stronger conviction. Even including God is genius in itself—many “little monsters” feel a religious oppression, particularly many gay people.
I take the song primarily for what it is – a pop song. I fully support the lyrics, which are aimed at her audience worldwide and are delivered in a simplistic enough manner to be understood by all. Will a non-English speaker understand what “Firework” conveys? Most likely, no. Some of my American friends still believe Perry is literally singing about a Firework. Will everyone understand what “Born This Way” conveys? Most likely, yes. I fully support her and her mission, and accordingly support these lyrics—stupid, in your face, and unoriginal, as they may appear to anyone who doesn’t understand GaGa and her mission. If the song creates an anthem—it is because it resonated very strongly with its audience, and NOT solely because it was formulated to be one.
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Post by kpasa on Jan 31, 2011 15:54:59 GMT -5
why is it that people have to justify criticism and make excuses for negativity directed towards their favorite artist? So what if we don't have the same opinion as you, does it really matter?
Gaga is successful as fuq; so there's a few of us, myself included, who aren't large fans of her and may be a tad critical. Welcome to reality, where people have opinions for any number of reasons. Fact is, many people still do like her, so why a few people expressing opinions, negative or otherwise, is this bothersome to her fan base is baffling to say the least.
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Deleted
Joined: January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 15:56:19 GMT -5
I feel like people who do not understand Lady GaGa as a person and as an artist are her main critics. Lady GaGa’s entire artistic vision is built on the idea that you can be whoever you are and that you’re not alone. She’s amassed a large following of “little monsters” who support her and her mission—the “little monsters” being people who feel or have felt alone, who have felt like outcasts at some point, who feel or have felt insecurities, etc. Practically, every person is or has been a “little monster” at some point. These lyrics may be campy and they may be overused. You know what makes them unique? The fact that they come from a person who fully sympathizes/empathizes with their meaning. GaGa is NOT trying to hop on the “it will get better” train—she is a living example and has been fighting, both politically and artistically, to get this message across even before the “it will get better” campaign was created. I believe the sincerity of her lyrics and her mission—if you doubt them, watch her speech on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. No one can say the same for any other pop artist (Aguilera, Britney, Ke$ha, and Katy Perry). GaGa’s lyrics for “Born This Way” appeal to all of her “little monsters” who may feel unhappy with themselves. She does not address her song to just “gays”. It is a message for every “little monster”. Further, her message is unique in that it is simple, direct, and in my opinion, purposefully refrains from using any symbolism or metaphors (WRWWR lacked the direct message, while Firework needed interpretation). Further, the lyrics are written in the first person—a likely conscious effort to force the listener to eventually wind up singing “ I’m beautiful in my way/’cause God makes no mistakes/ I’m on the right track baby/ I was born this way”, thereby creating a stronger conviction. Even including God is genius in itself—many “little monsters” feel a religious oppression, particularly many gay people. I take the song primarily for what it is – a pop song. I fully support the lyrics, which are aimed at her audience worldwide and are delivered in a simplistic enough manner to be understood by all. Will a non-English speaker understand what “Firework” conveys? Most likely, no. Some of my American friends still believe Perry is literally singing about a Firework. Will everyone understand what “Born This Way” conveys? Most likely, yes. I fully support her and her mission, and accordingly support these lyrics—stupid, in your face, and unoriginal, as they may appear to anyone who doesn’t understand GaGa and her mission. If the song creates an anthem—it is because it resonated very strongly with its audience, and NOT solely because it was formulated to be one. Thank you for this post :). You have brought alot of clarity to the situation @ hand and have made some pretty amazing points. My thoughts exactly!
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nightshade
Diamond Member
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Post by nightshade on Jan 31, 2011 16:17:48 GMT -5
I feel like people who do not understand Lady GaGa as a person and as an artist are her main critics. Lady GaGa’s entire artistic vision is built on the idea that you can be whoever you are and that you’re not alone. She’s amassed a large following of “little monsters” who support her and her mission—the “little monsters” being people who feel or have felt alone, who have felt like outcasts at some point, who feel or have felt insecurities, etc. Practically, every person is or has been a “little monster” at some point. These lyrics may be campy and they may be overused. You know what makes them unique? The fact that they come from a person who fully sympathizes/empathizes with their meaning. GaGa is NOT trying to hop on the “it will get better” train—she is a living example and has been fighting, both politically and artistically, to get this message across even before the “it will get better” campaign was created. I believe the sincerity of her lyrics and her mission—if you doubt them, watch her speech on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. No one can say the same for any other pop artist (Aguilera, Britney, Ke$ha, and Katy Perry). GaGa’s lyrics for “Born This Way” appeal to all of her “little monsters” who may feel unhappy with themselves. She does not address her song to just “gays”. It is a message for every “little monster”. Further, her message is unique in that it is simple, direct, and in my opinion, purposefully refrains from using any symbolism or metaphors (WRWWR lacked the direct message, while Firework needed interpretation). Further, the lyrics are written in the first person—a likely conscious effort to force the listener to eventually wind up singing “ I’m beautiful in my way/’cause God makes no mistakes/ I’m on the right track baby/ I was born this way”, thereby creating a stronger conviction. Even including God is genius in itself—many “little monsters” feel a religious oppression, particularly many gay people. I take the song primarily for what it is – a pop song. I fully support the lyrics, which are aimed at her audience worldwide and are delivered in a simplistic enough manner to be understood by all. Will a non-English speaker understand what “Firework” conveys? Most likely, no. Some of my American friends still believe Perry is literally singing about a Firework. Will everyone understand what “Born This Way” conveys? Most likely, yes. I fully support her and her mission, and accordingly support these lyrics—stupid, in your face, and unoriginal, as they may appear to anyone who doesn’t understand GaGa and her mission. If the song creates an anthem—it is because it resonated very strongly with its audience, and NOT solely because it was formulated to be one. Great post. I agree completely.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 16:27:46 GMT -5
*bows to clarksodi* So much awesome in one post.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 31, 2011 17:01:18 GMT -5
GaGa > Your fave She'll smash
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JayBoozer
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Joined: December 2003
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Post by JayBoozer on Jan 31, 2011 17:27:37 GMT -5
why is it that people have to justify criticism and make excuses for negativity directed towards their favorite artist? So what if we don't have the same opinion as you, does it really matter? Gaga is successful as fuq; so there's a few of us, myself included, who aren't large fans of her and may be a tad critical. Welcome to reality, where people have opinions for any number of reasons. Fact is, many people still do like her, so why a few people expressing opinions, negative or otherwise, is this bothersome to her fan base is baffling to say the least. I mean... this is a music discussion board. This is what people do on a music discussion board- discuss music (and the artists that produce it).
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Black Jesus
6x Platinum Member
Joined: November 2005
Posts: 6,075
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Post by Black Jesus on Jan 31, 2011 18:32:29 GMT -5
I feel like people who do not understand Lady GaGa as a person and as an artist are her main critics. Lady GaGa’s entire artistic vision is built on the idea that you can be whoever you are and that you’re not alone. She’s amassed a large following of “little monsters” who support her and her mission—the “little monsters” being people who feel or have felt alone, who have felt like outcasts at some point, who feel or have felt insecurities, etc. Practically, every person is or has been a “little monster” at some point. These lyrics may be campy and they may be overused. You know what makes them unique? The fact that they come from a person who fully sympathizes/empathizes with their meaning. GaGa is NOT trying to hop on the “it will get better” train—she is a living example and has been fighting, both politically and artistically, to get this message across even before the “it will get better” campaign was created. I believe the sincerity of her lyrics and her mission—if you doubt them, watch her speech on Don’t Ask Don’t Tell. No one can say the same for any other pop artist (Aguilera, Britney, Ke$ha, and Katy Perry). GaGa’s lyrics for “Born This Way” appeal to all of her “little monsters” who may feel unhappy with themselves. She does not address her song to just “gays”. It is a message for every “little monster”. Further, her message is unique in that it is simple, direct, and in my opinion, purposefully refrains from using any symbolism or metaphors (WRWWR lacked the direct message, while Firework needed interpretation). Further, the lyrics are written in the first person—a likely conscious effort to force the listener to eventually wind up singing “ I’m beautiful in my way/’cause God makes no mistakes/ I’m on the right track baby/ I was born this way”, thereby creating a stronger conviction. Even including God is genius in itself—many “little monsters” feel a religious oppression, particularly many gay people. I take the song primarily for what it is – a pop song. I fully support the lyrics, which are aimed at her audience worldwide and are delivered in a simplistic enough manner to be understood by all. Will a non-English speaker understand what “Firework” conveys? Most likely, no. Some of my American friends still believe Perry is literally singing about a Firework. Will everyone understand what “Born This Way” conveys? Most likely, yes. I fully support her and her mission, and accordingly support these lyrics—stupid, in your face, and unoriginal, as they may appear to anyone who doesn’t understand GaGa and her mission. If the song creates an anthem—it is because it resonated very strongly with its audience, and NOT solely because it was formulated to be one. Great post ;)
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clarksodi
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Posts: 1,744
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Post by clarksodi on Jan 31, 2011 18:37:37 GMT -5
why is it that people have to justify criticism and make excuses for negativity directed towards their favorite artist? So what if we don't have the same opinion as you, does it really matter? There is no problem with knowledgeable or constructive criticism. However, no one should tolerate unfounded, ignorant, and excessively negative criticism for the sake of accepting all "criticism". Criticize away but criticize knowingly.
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Post by kpasa on Jan 31, 2011 19:16:33 GMT -5
I mean... this is a music discussion board. This is what people do on a music discussion board- discuss music (and the artists that produce it). Obviously, but the thing is people aren't saying anything new. Its one thing to put a spin on things and discuss legitimate topics but its another to imply people don't understand or get it and call people "haters" for disagreeing while spinning the same thing in new ways. That's not discussion, that's rampant ignorance. There is no problem with knowledgeable or constructive criticism. However, no one should tolerate unfounded, ignorant, and excessively negative criticism for the sake of accepting all "criticism". Criticize away but criticize knowingly. I wasn't aware anyone here was criticizing unknowingly. In fact most (key word there) of the criticism I've seen are from very educated members who I'm sure know very well what they're talking about and only criticized based on lyrics. Again, most were very complementary of her sound and delivery. Its a pretty bold, baseless assumption to think so many are misinformed.
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nightshade
Diamond Member
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Joined: October 2008
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Post by nightshade on Jan 31, 2011 19:32:11 GMT -5
Obviously, but the thing is people aren't saying anything new. Yet knowing this you still post in this thread.
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clarksodi
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Post by clarksodi on Jan 31, 2011 19:59:06 GMT -5
There is no problem with knowledgeable or constructive criticism. However, no one should tolerate unfounded, ignorant, and excessively negative criticism for the sake of accepting all "criticism". Criticize away but criticize knowingly. I wasn't aware anyone here was criticizing unknowingly. In fact most (key word there) of the criticism I've seen are from very educated members who I'm sure know very well what they're talking about and only criticized based on lyrics. Again, most were very complementary of her sound and delivery. Its a pretty bold, baseless assumption to think so many are misinformed. There have been a few posts criticizing unknowingly. However, you should note that my post makes no mention of quantities, how many, or anything of the sort. You wondered why criticism is not well received. I explained why. And while you think I made "a pretty bold, baseless assumption to think so many are misinformed" (which I did not if you read my post carefully), I can actually say that you are actully making a pretty bold, baseless assumption to think so many are informed (I bolded the relevant section of your post for easy reference). Thanks.
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Black Jesus
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Post by Black Jesus on Jan 31, 2011 20:39:44 GMT -5
"The Fame" is currently #10 on the iTunes Pop Albums chart. Not bad for being released in 2008 ;)
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