Pollstar Top 50 Worldwide Tours -- Mid-year 2010

[libri]

www.pollstarpro.com/specialfeatures2010/2010MidYearTop50WorldwideTours.pdf


Gaga #6 with $42 mil. This is why I don't take Forbes lists seriously. Its list from a few weeks back put Gaga's tour grosses for June 2009-June 2010 @ $95 mil, which, based on this Pollstar data, is impossible. She played smaller venues in 2009 -- probably grossed ~$5-6 mil at most. Pollstar missed ~10 of her shows, but the total still wouldn't be anywhere near $95 mil.

Gaga still has ~75 shows left for the 2nd half of 2010 -- she has a very good chance of finishing in the top 3, and becoming the top female for the year. If all of her shows are counted, she could even surpass Madge's numbers from last year, I think.

I thought Pink's average attendance would be much higher since she's playing stadiums. The numbers are for the carnival tour, right? ???

And where's Rihanna? I thought she played quite a lot dates in Europe and they sold pretty well?

[rosemoor]

Geez, Michael Buble, I wonder how much he made last year. He's still touring now. when it's all said and done, he'd probably gonna gross 120mil for this era. He's bigger than Nickelback now, LOL.

[Joe1240]

Yay! Taylor Swift#8 on the list of Pollstar Top 50 Worldwide Tours!!!!!!! :)

[ItGirl]

Congrats to Pink. Just love her. I don't know if she was playing stadiums because she tweeted on July 13th that she just did her first stadium show in Nice, France.

[Nic (Britney Spears)]

This can't be accurate, because Ayumi Hamasaki's "Rock n Roll Circus" tour should have grossed about $30,000,000 by now.

[HolidayGuy]

Pollstar doesn't even report worldwide figures, so why did it compile such a list? Billboard should have its mid-year report soon enough- though the period covered would differ a little bit, as it would count dates from December-May, I believe (compared to Pollstar's January-June report).

[libri]

Jul 19, 2010 16:19:24 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Pollstar doesn't even report worldwide figures, so why did it compile such a list? Billboard should have its mid-year report soon enough- though the period covered would differ a little bit, as it would count dates from December-May, I believe (compared to Pollstar's January-June report).

It's already out. It covers Nov 28, 2009 - June 19, 2010.

www.billboard.com/events/ac-dc-bon-jovi-lead-midyear-tours-chart-1004104778.story#/events/ac-dc-bon-jovi-lead-top-midyear-tours-amid-1004104778.story?page=2

The Pollstar report is actually more "complete" than the BB one. For Gaga, BB has fewer dates than Pollstar does when it should have had 20 more dates for the Nov-Dec 2009 period it covers. For AC/DC, out of 41 dates Pollstar has 40, while BB has 26 dates out of 44. For James Taylor/Carole King, Pollstar 45/46, BB 16/39.

So where did Pollstar get the extra numbers from? The note on the report says that the numbers are based on reported info and extensive research. Is it an absolute fact that it doesn't report WW figures? Are those extra numbers raw numbers or estimates? IIRC, Pollstar does use estimates for its year-end top NA tours report. It also has a separate report for the mid-year 2010 top 100 NA tours, btw:

www.pollstarpro.com/specialfeatures2010/2010MidYearTop100Tours.pdf

[HolidayGuy]

Pollstar's always been about U.S. and Canada figures. And I think that for shows not reported, it would estimate info for those. Billboard's period for the year is December-November, I believe, so there's that month difference (in that and the mid-year reports).

Thanks for the BB link.

[grouper6]

Jul 20, 2010 9:20:34 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Pollstar's always been about U.S. and Canada figures. And I think that for shows not reported, it would estimate info for those. Billboard's period for the year is December-November, I believe, so there's that month difference (in that and the mid-year reports).

Thanks for the BB link.

Well they have Whitney Houston at #14 with a gross of $32mil. She did no US Shows so there goes your theory. Also, their numbers for her seem to be under estimated which I think they estimated quite a bit of her numbers.

Billboard has only reported 7 of her shows and that total is $9mil- she did a 46 date European/Asian/Australian tour not counting the 2 Russian dates that she did in Dec 2009

[grouper6]

Jul 20, 2010 0:35:15 GMT -5 libri said:

Jul 19, 2010 16:19:24 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Pollstar doesn't even report worldwide figures, so why did it compile such a list? Billboard should have its mid-year report soon enough- though the period covered would differ a little bit, as it would count dates from December-May, I believe (compared to Pollstar's January-June report).

It's already out. It covers Nov 28, 2009 - June 19, 2010.

www.billboard.com/events/ac-dc-bon-jovi-lead-midyear-tours-chart-1004104778.story#/events/ac-dc-bon-jovi-lead-top-midyear-tours-amid-1004104778.story?page=2

The Pollstar report is actually more "complete" than the BB one. For Gaga, BB has fewer dates than Pollstar does when it should have had 20 more dates for the Nov-Dec 2009 period it covers. For AC/DC, out of 41 dates Pollstar has 40, while BB has 26 dates out of 44. For James Taylor/Carole King, Pollstar 45/46, BB 16/39.

So where did Pollstar get the extra numbers from? The note on the report says that the numbers are based on reported info and extensive research. Is it an absolute fact that it doesn't report WW figures? Are those extra numbers raw numbers or estimates? IIRC, Pollstar does use estimates for its year-end top NA tours report. It also has a separate report for the mid-year 2010 top 100 NA tours, btw:

www.pollstarpro.com/specialfeatures2010/2010MidYearTop100Tours.pdf

Billboard lists also doesn't make sense. They have Whitney Houston's tour at #19 but only reports her 3 London dates at over $5mil but they neglected the 7 Asian Dates, and the other 36 dates. They didn't even include the 6 Australian dates which BB's own boxscore reported numbers for 3 of them.

She easily has grossed over $40mil and would be top 5 in either of these compilations. Weird!

[shayonce]

^ that's Boxscore Top 25 chart. which is about just each boxscores.

Billboards' mid year only inlcude dates reported to 'boxscore' during its time.
while pollstar gets most of dates number.

[grouper6]

Jul 20, 2010 22:17:56 GMT -5 shayonce said:

^ that's Boxscore Top 25 chart. which is about just each boxscores.

Billboards' mid year only inlcude dates reported to 'boxscore' during its time.
while pollstar gets most of dates number.

In that case, Billboard reported 7 dates for Whitney's tour grossing over $9 mil. They reported :
3 London Shows
3 Australian Shows
1 German Shows
for a gross of $9.8mil

I don't know why they would have left off the other 4 dates that they reported via their own boxscore report back in May.

[Stephen]

Carrie's #25 with a fanbase in pretty much ONLY the country area. Doesn't her label see the potential in pushing her songs? Idiots.

[shayonce]

Jul 20, 2010 22:33:47 GMT -5 grouper6 said:

Jul 20, 2010 22:17:56 GMT -5 shayonce said:

^ that's Boxscore Top 25 chart. which is about just each boxscores.

Billboards' mid year only inlcude dates reported to 'boxscore' during its time.
while pollstar gets most of dates number.

In that case, Billboard reported 7 dates for Whitney's tour grossing over $9 mil. They reported :
3 London Shows
3 Australian Shows
1 German Shows
for a gross of $9.8mil

I don't know why they would have left off the other 4 dates that they reported via their own boxscore report back in May.

you still don't get it. there's two mid chart by Billboard.
one is about just '1' single boxscore. it's about highest gross of single boxscore.
whitney is on this list with her london show boxscore.


and other one is top gross tour based on reported boxscore.
this one inlcudes all the reported date to billboard boxscore.

[xxxxx]

Where is Rihanna?

[HolidayGuy]

My "theory" is that Pollstar's always been about U.S./Canada grosses- which it has been, for weekly reports, mid-year reports and end-of-year reports. This year, it published a worldwide mid-year chart- if not THE first instance, one of the first instances it's done so. :)

[grouper6]

Jul 21, 2010 1:00:10 GMT -5 shayonce said:

Jul 20, 2010 22:33:47 GMT -5 grouper6 said:

In that case, Billboard reported 7 dates for Whitney's tour grossing over $9 mil. They reported :
3 London Shows
3 Australian Shows
1 German Shows
for a gross of $9.8mil

I don't know why they would have left off the other 4 dates that they reported via their own boxscore report back in May.

you still don't get it. there's two mid chart by Billboard.
one is about just '1' single boxscore. it's about highest gross of single boxscore.
whitney is on this list with her london show boxscore.


and other one is top gross tour based on reported boxscore.
this one inlcudes all the reported date to billboard boxscore.

Thanks for clearing that up

[worldwide]

Does anyone know how much money Artists get?
This list shows only how much tickets are sold and how much money they brought but how much do artists earn? Do they get some percentage of ticket's sale? How much do they get from organisers?

[Deleted]

I remember that Madonna earned around 50 million with the Confessions Tour, which grossed almost 200m $.

[PDC1987]

^That would have been after taxes and manager's fees.

Starting with the S&S Tour Madonna gets 90% of her ticket grosses but that's only because under her 360 contract with LN *she*pays for the entire production out of pocket. LN only covers promotion and organization costs.

With normal contracts the promoters foot the bill and the act gets a certain percentage of the ticket grosses, with acts that have bigger tours getting a higher percentage.

[libri]

Jul 21, 2010 12:50:51 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

My "theory" is that Pollstar's always been about U.S./Canada grosses- which it has been, for weekly reports, mid-year reports and end-of-year reports. This year, it published a worldwide mid-year chart- if not THE first instance, one of the first instances it's done so. :)

It did a worldwide year-end chart for 2009, I think -- the one that had Madonna ahead of Britney by a hair. I remember it cos before it came out, some Brit stans were hoping that Brit would pull ahead of M. The BB one had M way ahead of Brit, IRRC.

Jul 20, 2010 22:04:21 GMT -5 grouper6 said:

Billboard lists also doesn't make sense. They have Whitney Houston's tour at #19 but only reports her 3 London dates at over $5mil but they neglected the 7 Asian Dates, and the other 36 dates. They didn't even include the 6 Australian dates which BB's own boxscore reported numbers for 3 of them

BB has 2 charts out. The one that has Whitney at #19 is the top boxscores chart, which lists the highest boxscores generated by an act at a single venue. She isn't on the other chart, the top tours one, because it only lists the top 25 and her total reported boxscores are not high enough to land her on it.

BB uses only reported numbers for its lists (and it's up to the venue or the promoter to do the reporting), while Pollstar says that it uses reported info and its own extensive research. We don't know what the later constitutes. We're guessing that Pollstar probably uses estimates for the unreported shows, since that is what it says it does for its year-end reports. Would love to know how it comes up with the estimates -- a simple extrapolation from the stats of the reported shows or something much more vigorous?

Jul 26, 2010 12:59:43 GMT -5 PDC1987 said:

^That would have been after taxes and manager's fees.

Starting with the S&S Tour Madonna gets 90% of her ticket grosses but that's only because under her 360 contract with LN *she*pays for the entire production out of pocket. LN only covers promotion and organization costs.

With normal contracts the promoters foot the bill and the act gets a certain percentage of the ticket grosses, with acts that have bigger tours getting a higher percentage.

I don't think that's correct. With normal contracts, the promoter promotes the concert and rents the venue. The act is usually paid a guarantee/fee, plus a percentage of the profit after the promoter has reached its breakeven point. The act foots the bill for the production of the concert and pays their agent and manager a percentage of their fee. Most acts end up with 20-33% of the concert's gross ticket sales.

With a 360 deal, the artist and their partner probably share the profit at an agreed upon percentage after all the expenses have been paid. In Madonna's case, 90% goes to her and 10% to LN.

[maryp]

outside US & Canada, billboard reports very few gigs. 95% of the shows comes from EVENPRO or LIVENATION europe.

On the other hand, and I'm mainly talking about euro shows, pollstar receive data from much more promoters. So pollstar data are much more accurate when talking about "world tours"

[David]

Jul 17, 2010 21:33:39 GMT -5 libri said:

www.pollstarpro.com/specialfeatures2010/2010MidYearTop50WorldwideTours.pdf


I thought Pink's average attendance would be much higher since she's playing stadiums. The numbers are for the carnival tour, right? ???

Not all were stadiums. Some were just festival gigs. The majority of her stadium shows were in July. This only goes till the end of June.

[HolidayGuy]

Billboard reports few gigs outside the USA and Canada? Billboard reports plenty of international grosses- if Billboard doesn't report a gig, the promoter more than likely did not provide the information. As noted, Pollstar only in recent times started reporting worldwide numbers (and I don't even know if it reports individual non-U.S./Canada grosses).

[maryp]

Jul 29, 2010 16:27:27 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

Billboard reports few gigs outside the USA and Canada? Billboard reports plenty of international grosses- if Billboard doesn't report a gig, the promoter more than likely did not provide the information. As noted, Pollstar only in recent times started reporting worldwide numbers (and I don't even know if it reports individual non-U.S./Canada grosses).

they reports many gigs outside US & canada, but most of them comes from Livenation for europe and evenpro for latin america. that's all or almost. I have several list of pollstar boxscores for some artists and for europe there are much more data then billboard

[libri]

Jul 29, 2010 12:34:16 GMT -5 David said:

Jul 17, 2010 21:33:39 GMT -5 libri said:

www.pollstarpro.com/specialfeatures2010/2010MidYearTop50WorldwideTours.pdf


I thought Pink's average attendance would be much higher since she's playing stadiums. The numbers are for the carnival tour, right? ???

Not all were stadiums. Some were just festival gigs. The majority of her stadium shows were in July. This only goes till the end of June.

Thanks for the info. I don't follow her closely enough to know the details.

Jul 27, 2010 6:51:24 GMT -5 libri said:

BB uses only reported numbers for its lists (and it's up to the venue or the promoter to do the reporting), while Pollstar says that it uses reported info and its own extensive research. We don't know what the later constitutes. We're guessing that Pollstar probably uses estimates for the unreported shows, since that is what it says it does for its year-end reports. Would love to know how it comes up with the estimates -- a simple extrapolation from the stats of the reported shows or something much more vigorous?

I just came across a NYT article about the Pollstar report on 2010 NA concert tours that answered some of those ^^questions I had. From the article:

After the report was published, the Eagles released a statement saying that Pollstar’s data was incomplete. The report had put the Eagles at No. 33 on the Top 100 with $10 million in grosses, but the Eagles said their full figure was $48.7 million. If correct, that would put the band at No. 2, behind Bon Jovi but ahead of the double bill of James Taylor and Carole King (with $41 million).

In a statement Pollstar said that it was “repeatedly promised the missing information on the Eagles, but ultimately it was not provided in time.”

www.nytimes.com/2010/07/13/arts/music/13tour.html

So it looks like one of the methods Pollstar uses in its research is getting informal data directly from acts.



I know it's been noted many times -- and it's not meant as a dig at all -- but I'm genuinely perplexed by Mariah's lack of drawing power. Historically, acts that have had multiple huge albums and thus made a considerable impact do well in touring even when their music is not selling big anymore. I just don't get it. ???

[grouper6]

Jul 27, 2010 6:51:24 GMT -5 libri said:

Jul 21, 2010 12:50:51 GMT -5 HolidayGuy said:

My "theory" is that Pollstar's always been about U.S./Canada grosses- which it has been, for weekly reports, mid-year reports and end-of-year reports. This year, it published a worldwide mid-year chart- if not THE first instance, one of the first instances it's done so. :)

It did a worldwide year-end chart for 2009, I think -- the one that had Madonna ahead of Britney by a hair. I remember it cos before it came out, some Brit stans were hoping that Brit would pull ahead of M. The BB one had M way ahead of Brit, IRRC.



BB has 2 charts out. The one that has Whitney at #19 is the top boxscores chart, which lists the highest boxscores generated by an act at a single venue. She isn't on the other chart, the top tours one, because it only lists the top 25 and her total reported boxscores are not high enough to land her on it.

BB uses only reported numbers for its lists (and it's up to the venue or the promoter to do the reporting), while Pollstar says that it uses reported info and its own extensive research. We don't know what the later constitutes. We're guessing that Pollstar probably uses estimates for the unreported shows, since that is what it says it does for its year-end reports. Would love to know how it comes up with the estimates -- a simple extrapolation from the stats of the reported shows or something much more vigorous?

Jul 26, 2010 12:59:43 GMT -5 PDC1987 said:

^That would have been after taxes and manager's fees.

Starting with the S&S Tour Madonna gets 90% of her ticket grosses but that's only because under her 360 contract with LN *she*pays for the entire production out of pocket. LN only covers promotion and organization costs.

With normal contracts the promoters foot the bill and the act gets a certain percentage of the ticket grosses, with acts that have bigger tours getting a higher percentage.

I don't think that's correct. With normal contracts, the promoter promotes the concert and rents the venue. The act is usually paid a guarantee/fee, plus a percentage of the profit after the promoter has reached its breakeven point. The act foots the bill for the production of the concert and pays their agent and manager a percentage of their fee. Most acts end up with 20-33% of the concert's gross ticket sales.

With a 360 deal, the artist and their partner probably share the profit at an agreed upon percentage after all the expenses have been paid. In Madonna's case, 90% goes to her and 10% to LN.

Not sure what the lowest tour numbers were for the BB list butPollstar has Whitney at #14 with $32.9 million and thi doesnot include her 2 Russian concerts in 2009 Dec. I believe when all is counted her NBL tour should gross around $40 mil and the 2 Russian dates over $4-5mil. Just seem weirdhow they collate these charts.

Granted, BB has only reportd 7 Whitney concert dates at $9+ million....still.

[slicknickshady]

I wish i knew how the full Tool tour did.

[libri]

Aug 9, 2010 19:13:45 GMT -5 grouper6 said:

Not sure what the lowest tour numbers were for the BB list butPollstar has Whitney at #14 with $32.9 million and thi doesnot include her 2 Russian concerts in 2009 Dec. I believe when all is counted her NBL tour should gross around $40 mil and the 2 Russian dates over $4-5mil. Just seem weirdhow they collate these charts.

Granted, BB has only reportd 7 Whitney concert dates at $9+ million....still.

Hm, it seems to me that you still don't get it.

BB and Pollstar do not report the concerts' data -- they just publish the data reported to them (i.e. the weekly boxscores). It's either the promoter or the venue that reports a concert's data to BB and/or Pollstar, and it's voluntary. They're not required to do so -- some do report and some don't. BB and Pollstar then compile the data reported to them to make their mid-year/year-end lists. BB uses only the reported data to make its lists, while Pollstar uses the reported data PLUS whatever it can get of the additional data for the unreported concerts through its own research. Whitney isn't on the BB list because her concert promoters only reported some of her concerts and the total grosses of those reported concerts are not enough to get her into the top 25. Her Pollstar numbers are higher because Pollstar added the numbers for some of her unreported concerts it managed to get thru its research to her reported numbers.