kml567
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Post by kml567 on Oct 11, 2012 19:45:20 GMT -5
So does this mean there's 3 different ways for record labels to call a song #1?
Mediabase airplay chart Billboard airplay chart Billboard Hot Country hybrid chart
Or are we left with Mediabase airplay and Billboard hybrid chart as the 2 official charts recognized by Nashville as #1?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 19:47:13 GMT -5
[Sarcasm] I love how on the chart released today, Billboard used the 10/13 airplay positions as the "Last Week" rankings. So, WANEGBT jumps from 21-1. LOL. "Begin Again" goes from 37-10. Greg Bates and Jerrod Niemann would've never made the top 20. Darius Rucker's going nowhere. Colt Ford has his first top 40 hit! Hey, Alan Jackson, good luck ever cracking the top 40 again![/sarcasm] I get it. The industry is changing. But everything always does. Pop airplay and sales should in no way determine what is #1 on the so-called "main" country chart. I loved it the way it was...Country Digital Songs, and Country Airplay. Separate. If they want to draw more attention to sales/streaming achievements, do extensive analysis on SoundScan numbers for those charts. Labels can brag about their achievements on those charts. But why mix them together? Another thing that you won't see happening anymore with this new chart is streaks of #1 hits (or top 5's, top 10's, etc), now that sales are incorporated into the picture. Take, for example, Kenny Chesney's "Reality". Likely wouldn't have made the top 20 with this new chart methodology. Why? No one was buying it? Why? It was a 5th single--everybody had already bought the album by then, or long ago cherry-picked the songs from it that they liked. In the past, radio may have decided the charts, but now the suits at Billboard do! They get to determine what songs fit which genre! I am very disappointed in this new chart. I can't change it. I don't even know if a ton of backlash would cause Billboard to think twice. I guess I've gotten all my thoughts out there now. The conversation here can continue on without me...don't think I've got anything else to say, other than that my head hurts from thinking about this chart.
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Arabella21
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Post by Arabella21 on Oct 11, 2012 19:53:35 GMT -5
Looking at this particular chart seems to indicate that Pop and Country Airplay aren't weighed nearly as heavy as sales. The #2 song has 0 airplay on either chart but it's still ahead of the #1 airplay song on Country "Blown Away" . Isn't the new methodology pretty much the same as the Hot 100's, just with a more limited song list? Red sold 312K last week which was enough to overcome Blown Away's 62K in sales + however many millions it had in audience. WANEGBT just sold 149K but it's on top, not Red, thanks to the massive airplay it got outside of country. So I wouldn't say that airplay isn't weighted much, just that if you have a huge lead in one chart component that it can make up for lagging in other areas.
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Post by Spacey_Kacey on Oct 11, 2012 19:55:46 GMT -5
You know what that means? We could potentially have two The One That Got Aways on the chart. One by Jake Owen, the other by Katy Perry! If this ever happened, I would download Tim McGraw's "The One That Got Away" approximately 30,000 times to make this even worse.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 11, 2012 20:03:03 GMT -5
See if you can find what's wrong in this picture: Yeah, the people at Billboard really have their heads on straight...
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kml567
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Post by kml567 on Oct 11, 2012 20:11:07 GMT -5
The hybrid chart is ridiculous. Look at the top 8 in terms of approximate chart points (Billboard's formula is sales + airplay multiplied by 2):
1. Taylor Swift WANEGBT 330 points (149 sales + 175 non-country airplay + 6 country airplay) 2. Taylor Swift Red 312 points (312 sales+0 airplay) 3. Carrie Underwood 138 points (62 sales + 74 country airplay + 2 non-country airplay) 4. Hunter Hayes 118 points (58 sales + 60 airplay) 5. Jason Aldean 114 points (37 sales + 77 airplay) 6. Florida-Georgia Line 101 points (68 sales + 33 airplay) 7. Dustin Lynch 99 points (26 sales + 73 airplay) 8. Luke Bryan 92 points (36 sales + 56 airplay)
Taylor's "Red" lead over Carrie "Blown Away" is gigantic. It's roughly 312 chart points for Taylor vs 138 points for Carrie!! :o Taylor's WANEGBT is #1 because she has 175 points (out of 330) from pop/HotAC/AC airplay!!
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Marv
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Post by Marv on Oct 11, 2012 20:16:12 GMT -5
Thanks goodness for the Mediabase charts, which certainly aren't perfect, but will undoubtedly remain the source for the four major nationally syndicated countdown shows; Bob Kingsley, Crook & Chase, Lon Helton & Kix Brooks.
The labels will certainly continue to tout the chart performance and accolades for all of their various artists in both trades with the BB Country Airplay chart alongside Mediabase.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Oct 11, 2012 20:43:25 GMT -5
Billboard can call the new chart the 'main' chart all they like, but what really matters is which one the labels/industry choose to recognize. I really don't like this as much as anyone else, but I could see it just coexisting with the regular airplay chart, and the airplay chart continuing to be the one that the industry recognizes as the real country chart. I hope it's all just a matter of semantics.
Obviously labels will trumpet the achivements of their artists on whichever chart they are doing better on (ie. Big Machine will call "We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together" a Country #1), but other than that, I don't think it will change all that much. At least I hope not.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Oct 11, 2012 21:00:01 GMT -5
There's always a chance that BB could acknowledge the revolt to this new chart and kill it. Remember how short-lived the Pop 100 was? (And out of curiosity — was there any shorter-lived chart than that?)
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Arabella21
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Post by Arabella21 on Oct 11, 2012 21:06:27 GMT -5
I see on Wikipedia that the Pop 100 lasted more than 4 years. Is that right? Anyway, I don't see this exact methodology surviving intact for even half as long as that.
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michellef
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Post by michellef on Oct 11, 2012 21:18:07 GMT -5
lasting for even just one week is too long, as it takes away a deserved #1 from someone
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ajd3232
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Post by ajd3232 on Oct 11, 2012 21:29:43 GMT -5
I guess country radio better start supporting artist who are selling their music instead of their personal picks to maybe bump out the usual top spots. I dont like the chart, but the fact that it is the actual one that is published on billboard.com is just sad. Big sellers and crossovers will continue to dominate. This doesn't help new artist at all, unless you are a big seller. I feel for Miranda, because I dont see her getting number one spot much anymore if this is the actual chart. I know people are going to look at the chart they want, but billboard has decided that this chart matters and as much as I hate it, it is the one they publish. This also not good for artist who have a more traditional sound. Traditional sound would rarely sell as much to debut high on this new chart.
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metsfan
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Post by metsfan on Oct 11, 2012 21:30:47 GMT -5
The hybrid chart is ridiculous. Look at the top 8 in terms of approximate chart points (Billboard's formula is sales + airplay multiplied by 2): 1. Taylor Swift WANEGBT 330 points (149 sales + 175 non-country airplay + 6 country airplay) 2. Taylor Swift Red 312 points (312 sales+0 airplay) 3. Carrie Underwood 138 points (62 sales + 74 country airplay + 2 non-country airplay) 4. Hunter Hayes 118 points (58 sales + 60 airplay) 5. Jason Aldean 114 points (37 sales + 77 airplay) 6. Florida-Georgia Line 101 points (68 sales + 33 airplay) 7. Dustin Lynch 99 points (26 sales + 73 airplay) 8. Luke Bryan 92 points (36 sales + 56 airplay) Taylor's "Red" lead over Carrie "Blown Away" is gigantic. It's roughly 312 chart points for Taylor vs 138 points for Carrie!! :o Taylor's WANEGBT is #1 because she has 175 points (out of 330) from pop/HotAC/AC airplay!! Will someone who doesn't get pop airplay get a #1 anymore?? Brad? Miranda? Blake?
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Post by gcizvolsfan on Oct 11, 2012 21:39:36 GMT -5
Will someone who doesn't get pop airplay get a #1 anymore?? Brad? Miranda? Blake?[/quote]
No
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rbundy1987
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Post by rbundy1987 on Oct 11, 2012 21:58:52 GMT -5
I think with this new Country Chart they are still calling Hot Country Songs, is more like a Top Country Digital Songs Chart, I checked and read the article and read carefully that the new chart consists of airplay along with digital sales. Now The Country Airplay chart is basically the old Hot Country Songs Chart and it will still be used still. I checked #1 Country Songs of 2012 and see that Wikipedia is using that and the new chart as well. So we may have 2 #1 songs a week now. So to answer I even checked the real time tracker, and Carrie is tracking at #1 still for "Blown Away" so she will be #1 come Monday and earn her 13th #1 hit. I think the new chart is useless though and it is a waste of space along with the new other charts that were launched with the revamped Country Songs Chart. #1 Song this week for Hot Country Songs is Taylor's "WANEGBT" while Jason's "Take A Little Ride" is #1 on the Airplay chart but was #1 on the Hot Country Songs for 2 weeks, this is it's first week at #1 on Airplay. Next week, Carrie will rule the Airplay chart with "Blown Away".
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kw9461
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Post by kw9461 on Oct 11, 2012 22:21:00 GMT -5
I think with this new Country Chart they are still calling Hot Country Songs, is more like a Top Country Digital Songs Chart, I checked and read the article and read carefully that the new chart consists of airplay along with digital sales. Now The Country Airplay chart is basically the old Hot Country Songs Chart and it will still be used still. I checked #1 Country Songs of 2012 and see that Wikipedia is using that and the new chart as well. So we may have 2 #1 songs a week now. So to answer I even checked the real time tracker, and Carrie is tracking at #1 still for "Blown Away" so she will be #1 come Monday and earn her 13th #1 hit. I think the new chart is useless though and it is a waste of space along with the new other charts that were launched with the revamped Country Songs Chart. #1 Song this week for Hot Country Songs is Taylor's "WANEGBT" while Jason's "Take A Little Ride" is #1 on the Airplay chart but was #1 on the Hot Country Songs for 2 weeks, this is it's first week at #1 on Airplay. Next week, Carrie will rule the Airplay chart with "Blown Away". I agree with you to a point, but in the BB article i read it made mention of the Airplay chart "using history dating to the introduction of BDS monitoring in 1990" or something along those lines - clearly implying that this new monstrosity of a chart is going to be the sole one with which to draw comparisons with George Jones, George Strait, Faron Young, Eddy Arnold and the like. And that just makes me sad. Something I genuinely care about and enjoyed following is now gone and utterly useless. Sad, sad day.
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rbundy1987
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Post by rbundy1987 on Oct 11, 2012 22:52:59 GMT -5
I think with this new Country Chart they are still calling Hot Country Songs, is more like a Top Country Digital Songs Chart, I checked and read the article and read carefully that the new chart consists of airplay along with digital sales. Now The Country Airplay chart is basically the old Hot Country Songs Chart and it will still be used still. I checked #1 Country Songs of 2012 and see that Wikipedia is using that and the new chart as well. So we may have 2 #1 songs a week now. So to answer I even checked the real time tracker, and Carrie is tracking at #1 still for "Blown Away" so she will be #1 come Monday and earn her 13th #1 hit. I think the new chart is useless though and it is a waste of space along with the new other charts that were launched with the revamped Country Songs Chart. #1 Song this week for Hot Country Songs is Taylor's "WANEGBT" while Jason's "Take A Little Ride" is #1 on the Airplay chart but was #1 on the Hot Country Songs for 2 weeks, this is it's first week at #1 on Airplay. Next week, Carrie will rule the Airplay chart with "Blown Away". I agree with you to a point, but in the BB article i read it made mention of the Airplay chart "using history dating to the introduction of BDS monitoring in 1990" or something along those lines - clearly implying that this new monstrosity of a chart is going to be the sole one with which to draw comparisons with George Jones, George Strait, Faron Young, Eddy Arnold and the like. And that just makes me sad. Something I genuinely care about and enjoyed following is now gone and utterly useless. Sad, sad day. I agree with you too, I think it takes away from the more deserving and who actually work harder to get the success they deserve, I hope Billboard rethinks this down the road and kills the "new main chart", this means that Carrie will have 12 #1 songs but 1 Airplay #1 hit, NOT RIGHT!!! I thought about it and yes you are right on all accounts. This means not a chance of getting George Strait a well deserved possible 45th #1 hit on the Hot Country Songs Chart.
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Zazie
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Post by Zazie on Oct 11, 2012 22:56:57 GMT -5
Wow, go out of town for a few days and everything goes crazy. I know that sales and airplay figures have been mixed before, but it never works because there is no way to combine accurately these very different kinds of data.
I have no problem with a hybrid chart that doesn't mean much being published in BB, but making it the main chart would be a travesty, so I will just hope that part goes away. When I get back home, I'll have more to say. For the time being, JHomes's comments pretty much duplicate my thoughts. Good posting, JH.
I don't see why BB would move so strongly in a new direction. Rather than puzzle over it even more, I'm going to bed.
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ericNY2002
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Post by ericNY2002 on Oct 12, 2012 0:27:27 GMT -5
I see both sides of the arguement for the new chart. I prefer the airplay only chart, but digital sales are so important now that they should factor into the chart success of a song.
I would have less of a problem with this new chart if BB would put in a provision. That provision would state that for a song to be eligible to put on the hybrid chart, it must recieve airplay on a certain percentage of monitored Country stations (40 or 50% of the panel). That would ensure that a "album cut" from any superstar artist doesn't become a big hit solely on either sales or other format airplay.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 12, 2012 1:08:58 GMT -5
Well, congratulations to Carrie Underwood for making as much history as she possibly could've. Scoring 15 #1s, 12 of which were Billboard-certified, in just 7 years is monumental and historic, and 10x more-so than usual because she's a solo female. It's a damn shame that Taylor Swift will overcome that record in a possible matter of 3 months through involuntary manipulation and a completely illogical sense of rule alterations.
It just sucks to see that a record that could've continued on for years more to come is now dead because Carrie doesn't have enough prominence on Pop radio to help her receive anymore #1s accredited to the chart that most people would consider matters most.
"Blown Away" is still the true #1 Country song this week. Sucks to suck, Joe.
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Post by ontheroadwith on Oct 12, 2012 5:05:53 GMT -5
I see that Wikipedia is already listing the "new charts" peak positions as what they call US Country Chart. That is very disappointing because it is not accurate in the least and also, now every song that was out before this change, there will be no correlation to the chart peaks. Also, new artists are going to have a HARD time getting a number 1 on the new chart. Poor Jana Kramer couldn't even snag a spot in the top 10. This just sucks. This is the only chart that will matter to me now. secure.randr.com/bdsradiocharts/charts.aspx?formatid=4
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jptexas
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Post by jptexas on Oct 12, 2012 6:25:54 GMT -5
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Lozzy
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Post by Lozzy on Oct 12, 2012 6:30:23 GMT -5
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Post by urbangirl13 on Oct 12, 2012 9:13:23 GMT -5
Hi, I'm a lurker but I just had to thank you for posting that article. Well said!
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hank0629
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Post by hank0629 on Oct 12, 2012 9:55:51 GMT -5
Do we have no way to pressure Billboard into changing back to the original chart? This make me feel they change the chart just for dubstep singer Taylor Swift! >:( >:( >:(
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layne
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Post by layne on Oct 12, 2012 10:00:31 GMT -5
Do we have no way to pressure Billboard into changing back to the original chart? Maybe they will from the backlash but honestly the Country Music Industry could solve this by having all the powers that be agree to make the mediabase chart their "official" chart and make a statement declaring such. All it takes is for the industry to acknowledge that they aren't paying attention to the BB chart.
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renee75
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Post by renee75 on Oct 12, 2012 10:00:41 GMT -5
I'm not an avid chart-follower, at least not at the level that many of you are, but this is pretty disturbing.
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mikem
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Post by mikem on Oct 12, 2012 12:02:53 GMT -5
layne I don't agree with your support of the new methodology Billboard will be using, but you are obviously knowledgable and make your argument in a thoughtful way, so more power to you. I agree that the folks in the industry could rebel and take Mediabase to heart as their official chart. But, I, and I suspect you, don't think that will happen.
Instead, I wonder if you agree this is the more likely scenario: The labels will now see three sources for number-one songs rather than two: Mediabase, the Hot 100 chart and the Airplay chart. Sure, topping the airplay chart won't qualify as an official number-one in Billboard's historical record, but the PR people will tout it as a number-one none-the-less, and fans will eat it up. (Actually, I hope this does happen, starting with Arista's handling of Carrie's song next week).
The problem, and here's where we won't agree, is that PR people don't create the historical record, and I feel Billboard has made a huge mistake replacing the airplay chart with the new methodology to create that record.
Billboard has also put me in an awkward position re: Mediabase. I follow MB daily because they make the daily chart available. But, in my heart, I always felt it was a bit too gimmicky and secretive, making it easier to manipulate. I always said Billboard just made sense: If your song is heard by more people than mine, you win. Now, I find myself looking at Mediabase as the more sensible chart, and that requires some eating of words. Never a tasty treat.
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stcecilia
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Post by stcecilia on Oct 12, 2012 12:16:44 GMT -5
Hi, I'm a lurker here also and enjoy reading all the comments and learning about the charts. I'm with the majority here in thinking this chart is not good for the genre. I somehow hope we're all proved wrong, but right now it's not looking good. I read one of the comments in the country universe.net article mentioning Bill Werde of Billboard being best friends with Scott Borchetta and this chart having something to do with Big Machine and Bill Werde being in "cahoots". Does anyone think this comment has any truth in it or is she/he just an angry fan?
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carrieidol1
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Post by carrieidol1 on Oct 12, 2012 12:27:48 GMT -5
Hi, I'm a lurker here also and enjoy reading all the comments and learning about the charts. I'm with the majority here in thinking this chart is not good for the genre. I somehow hope we're all proved wrong, but right now it's not looking good. I read one of the comments in the country universe.net article mentioning Bill Werde of Billboard being best friends with Scott Borchetta and this chart having something to do with Big Machine and Bill Werde being in "cahoots". Does anyone think this comment has any truth in it or is she/he just an angry fan? While that scenario is not totally out of the question, I feel this is just another example of Billboard's shenanigans. They like to change things a lot, and usually over time their changes work. This won't - it just dilutes every single genre chart. In the end, even Taylor could see negative affects from this. The longer she's #1, the more people will realize the complete and utter bullshit of this chart, and therefore likely discredit it. I just can't see this standing for too long...
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