Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Oct 24, 2013 1:53:35 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that when Miley or Katy open with 270k its a "great" number but if someone like Gaga or Britney opens to that its a complete utter failure I don't think people really expect Britney to open with 270k these days. She'd be lucky to do 200k.
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Post by TroublemakerOlly on Oct 24, 2013 1:57:58 GMT -5
^HITS and Sony's New Release Schedule both said 400k. And also UMGD's report. Her I/O is actually very satisfying this time.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 9:07:47 GMT -5
I just think it's funny that when Miley or Katy open with 270k its a "great" number but if someone like Gaga or Britney opens to that its a complete utter failure We shouldn't be comparing them. We should be compring the sales to a diva's last album. Katy's last album opened with 192k. This one will be around 300k. Plus, we all know Katy's album will have longevity. It's probably going to scan 2 million.
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chartfreak
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Post by chartfreak on Oct 24, 2013 9:22:42 GMT -5
I think a simpler explanation is "how much of the artist's popularity is due to their persona vs. their music" -- Katy Perry simply doesn't have much of a persona outside of making hit records. A blue wig doesn't quite cut it these days in terms of making yourself stand out as unique. So people buy songs they like but don't rush out to buy an album because there isn't as much personal attachment to the performer. This is so true. Personally, I don't care about HER at all but she keeps on singing damn good pop tunes. I have never bought a Katy Perry or Rihanna album. same here, do not own any albums, but have quite a few singles by them.
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Duca
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Post by Duca on Oct 24, 2013 9:56:07 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be calling these numbers disappointing. Katy Perry’s “Prism” Album Sales Disappoint; Forecast Says 280KRarely can an album sell almost 300,000 copies in its opening week and be considered a disappointment.This is one of those unusual circumstances.Based on opening day sales data, Hits Daily Double reports that Katy Perry’s heavily hyped, long awaited and aggressively marketed “Prism” is pacing to debut in the 270-290K ballpark.If the figure holds, it would not only land well below expectations but represent growth of less than 100K over predecessor “Teenage Dream,” which moved 192K debut units in the summer of 2010. That album–and its deluxe re-release–produced a record-setting six number one singles and two more top three singles. A ubiquitous album that established Katy Perry, “Teenage Dream” ended up selling more than 2.7M copies to prove the singer-songwriter was not simply the woman behind the latest interchangeable voice on the radio. She was a uniquely recognizable, ardently supported pop star. She was someone who, moving forward, should have the ability to sell serious quantities of albums.The difference between Perry’s profile upon launching lead single “California Gurls” in 2010 and upon closing the album’s cycle in 2012 was one of night and day.And since commencing the “Prism” campaign this summer, Perry’s star has only grown.“Roar,” her first cut off the album, became an instant smash and scored the best weekly download mark of her career. It made Perry only harder to avoid and sparked incredible buzz for the “Prism” release. It made October 22, the release day, seem more like a pop culture event than an album release day.A total of less than 300,000 copies–or, realistically, anything under 450,000–does not jibe with that build-up. It does not reflect the exponential growth in star power and fanbase that came after “Teenage Dream” moved 192K units in its first week.It, at best, reflects what a hit album would do in its debut week. It does not befit a monster release and certainly does not establish “Prism” as a pop culture phenomenon.Even more trouble comes from the notion of comparison. Two weeks ago, Miley Cyrus’ “Bangerz,” which came from an artist who has a smaller fanbase, a significantly less dominant position in pop music and no momentum from her previous release (2010′s flop “Can’t Be Tamed”), moved 270K copies.Many wanted to call that total a flop. If one felt 270K was a disappointment for the first release from the rebooted, unproven Miley, he must be positively horrified by the Perry record only selling 270-290K in its opener.Katy Perry’s “Prism” will surely claim number one on Billboard 200. But the real story is not that Katy has another number one; it is that for all the success of “Teenage Dream,” all the fans she has amassed, all the excitement over “Roar” and all the hype she and her label generated for “Prism,” Perry has yet to prove she can generate significant opening-week interest.Entertainment Weekly wrote a rather ruthless article about her when Teenage Dream failed to crack 200k.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Oct 24, 2013 10:06:06 GMT -5
I think a simpler explanation is "how much of the artist's popularity is due to their persona vs. their music" -- Katy Perry simply doesn't have much of a persona outside of making hit records. A blue wig doesn't quite cut it these days in terms of making yourself stand out as unique. So people buy songs they like but don't rush out to buy an album because there isn't as much personal attachment to the performer. The "persona" explanation is total BS. I'm quite sure we can come up with a list of artists, Mariah Carey in her first 6 years for example, that aren't/weren't know for having exciting, interesting, or provocative personas.......but sold boat loads of albums. We are still in an era where most albums are barely going platinum so it shouldn't be at all surprising to see Katy opening at 300K, especially when she is shifting that many singles. Very few artists can shift both singles and albums and Katy, if I'm not mistaken, is second in line for the top of the overall leaderboard. The better explanation would be that brand wise, the general public likely sees her more as a singles artist than an album artist. That both the teams behind her and Rihanna seem to have recognized that today's music buying market is more rooted in "pick and choose" song purchases rather than full artistic and conceptual album creations. So instead of making thematic, connected albums, they chock the EP full of hits that will sell individual. Even then, Katy's last album sold 2MM copies so I'd say she's connected with quite a few people already. Plus, rabid fandoms are overated and rarely have the numbers to significant move units or make something a hit (Monsters, Lambs, Beyhive, I'm looking at you). All they are good for is having loud voices on internet music forums and Twitter.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 10:06:45 GMT -5
^^LOL. I've NEVER heard of that website before. Who cares what one writer says?
Like I said above, this album will have longevity. Plus, it's the 4th Quarter.
We won't care about its opening week when it scans 1 million.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Oct 24, 2013 10:08:07 GMT -5
Everyone seems to be calling these numbers disappointing. Katy Perry’s “Prism” Album Sales Disappoint; Forecast Says 280KRarely can an album sell almost 300,000 copies in its opening week and be considered a disappointment.This is one of those unusual circumstances.Based on opening day sales data, Hits Daily Double reports that Katy Perry’s heavily hyped, long awaited and aggressively marketed “Prism” is pacing to debut in the 270-290K ballpark......... The entire article reads like it was written by a 15 year old.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 10:13:41 GMT -5
and duca, can you edit the title of this thread with the new estimate for katy? 275-300k
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 10:13:53 GMT -5
It is also possible the advance singles ate into the album sales a bit.
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Post by Rocky on Oct 24, 2013 10:37:20 GMT -5
It is also possible the advance singles ate into the album sales a bit. I think the PRISM seeds started sprouting or something.
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chinacandy
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Post by chinacandy on Oct 24, 2013 11:02:34 GMT -5
270K is alright if she can maintain the momentum and the hits. Longevity is the name of the game.
However, the album is very bland and the individual songs on the album are not making any impact on iTunes (unlike Miley's Bangerz). She is not going to get another 5-7 hits from this album. I worry for the longevity of this album.
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mluv
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Post by mluv on Oct 24, 2013 11:33:59 GMT -5
Considering the state of music today and less & less people buying albums I'm sure the label will be very happy with Katy's sales. That article sounds like it's written by a disgruntled Miley fan who's trying to get back at people who called Miley's opening numbers disappointing. Opening week numbers are just about bragging rights. Longevity is more important. But some acts are better at selling singles than albums.
That said, I do agree the songs I've heard from this Katy Perry album is pretty bland. Even someone that gets criticized like Taylor Swift has more interesting things to say in her songs. Katy could have channeled all the anger & heartbreak from being married to such a douche (Russell Brand) and put out a spectacular album a la Adele or Alanis Morissette. A missed opportunity to show some growth.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Oct 24, 2013 11:43:43 GMT -5
I think a simpler explanation is "how much of the artist's popularity is due to their persona vs. their music" -- Katy Perry simply doesn't have much of a persona outside of making hit records. A blue wig doesn't quite cut it these days in terms of making yourself stand out as unique. So people buy songs they like but don't rush out to buy an album because there isn't as much personal attachment to the performer. The "persona" explanation is total BS. I'm quite sure we can come up with a list of artists, Mariah Carey in her first 6 years for example, that aren't/weren't know for having exciting, interesting, or provocative personas.......but sold boat loads of albums. We are still in an era where most albums are barely going platinum so it shouldn't be at all surprising to see Katy opening at 300K, especially when she is shifting that many singles. Very few artists can shift both singles and albums and Katy, if I'm not mistaken, is second in line for the top of the overall leaderboard. The better explanation would be that brand wise, the general public likely sees her more as a singles artist than an album artist. That both the teams behind her and Rihanna seem to have recognized that today's music buying market is more rooted in "pick and choose" song purchases rather than full artistic and conceptual album creations. So instead of making thematic, connected albums, they chock the EP full of hits that will sell individual. Even then, Katy's last album sold 2MM copies so I'd say she's connected with quite a few people already. Plus, rabid fandoms are overated and rarely have the numbers to significant move units or make something a hit (Monsters, Lambs, Beyhive, I'm looking at you). All they are good for is having loud voices on internet music forums and Twitter. I'm not sure how you can put those first two paragraphs together with a straight face. You cite Mariah's huge album success in the nineties as evidence that the persona explanation makes no sense, yet acknowledge that albums are barely going platinum these days. Of course an album would sell better in the nineties. People bought albums back then, singles weren't released individually, etc. To get people to buy an album, they need to be invested in you, or convinced that they will like more than a handful of singles (and having 6-7 hits off the same album will do the trick). I think, considering how weakly I believe the public to be attached to Katy Perry the person, are quite good.
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Oct 24, 2013 13:12:37 GMT -5
Personally, I don't see why we always compare it to the previous album's opening sales. There's always different circumstances for each album and I think we should be basing our expectations off of those circumstances rather than just what they did last time with a whole different album, set-up, promotion etc.
Regardless, for someone who can sell 550K singles in an entire week, selling 275K albums in a week with a HUGE radio hit and supposedly huge fanbase of young people and the "Katy-cats", it IS a disappointing number, just like how I personally felt 192K was a really disappointing number for Teenage Dream.
If we are basing it off of last albums then Artpop is already gonna be a massive disappointment...
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badrobot
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Post by badrobot on Oct 24, 2013 13:20:20 GMT -5
I think a simpler explanation is "how much of the artist's popularity is due to their persona vs. their music" -- Katy Perry simply doesn't have much of a persona outside of making hit records. A blue wig doesn't quite cut it these days in terms of making yourself stand out as unique. So people buy songs they like but don't rush out to buy an album because there isn't as much personal attachment to the performer. The "persona" explanation is total BS. I'm quite sure we can come up with a list of artists, Mariah Carey in her first 6 years for example, that aren't/weren't know for having exciting, interesting, or provocative personas.......but sold boat loads of albums. We are still in an era where most albums are barely going platinum so it shouldn't be at all surprising to see Katy opening at 300K, especially when she is shifting that many singles. Very few artists can shift both singles and albums and Katy, if I'm not mistaken, is second in line for the top of the overall leaderboard. The better explanation would be that brand wise, the general public likely sees her more as a singles artist than an album artist. That both the teams behind her and Rihanna seem to have recognized that today's music buying market is more rooted in "pick and choose" song purchases rather than full artistic and conceptual album creations. So instead of making thematic, connected albums, they chock the EP full of hits that will sell individual. Even then, Katy's last album sold 2MM copies so I'd say she's connected with quite a few people already. Plus, rabid fandoms are overated and rarely have the numbers to significant move units or make something a hit (Monsters, Lambs, Beyhive, I'm looking at you). All they are good for is having loud voices on internet music forums and Twitter. We are talking about opening week numbers for albums, not total sales. People buy an album in its first week because they are a fan of that artist. Persona definitely has an impact here. People buy albums over time usually because they like the music itself and subsequent singles confirm the quality of an album. Katy has benefited from this in the past and will again.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 13:30:25 GMT -5
Personally, I don't see why we always compare it to the previous album's opening sales. There's always different circumstances for each album and I think we should be basing our expectations off of those circumstances rather than just what they did last time with a whole different album, set-up, promotion etc. Regardless, for someone who can sell 550K singles in an entire week, selling 275K albums in a week with a HUGE radio hit and supposedly huge fanbase of young people and the "Katy-cats", it IS a disappointing number, just like how I personally felt 192K was a really disappointing number for Teenage Dream. If we are basing it off of last albums then Artpop is already gonna be a massive disappointment... Artpop really cannot be compared to BTW because it had the 99 cent sale. AP won't have that.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Oct 24, 2013 13:36:50 GMT -5
I'd say Artpop's opening will be somewhere in Justin Timberlake's region but it could be anything from 350k to 700k.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 13:43:50 GMT -5
^Yeah, AP is going to be hard to estimate. If Katy is doing 300k, maybe the same (and a little bit more) for GaGa?
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Post by Push The Button on Oct 24, 2013 13:48:34 GMT -5
ARTPOP and 20/20 Part 2 had pretty similar pre-orders, and that was back in early September. I'd say 400k might be reasonable.
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upsidedown
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Post by upsidedown on Oct 24, 2013 13:57:27 GMT -5
See I'd say 400K is good for Gaga since this era hasn't been that hugely big for her.
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Rumors
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Post by Rumors on Oct 24, 2013 15:30:51 GMT -5
She's receiving the most radio airplay and promotion than any artist out there for the past 3 months...this is low relative to that. Like someone said before she will barely outsell Miley. I agree. Let's be honest...she's everywhere. She's been on my yahoo home page every night. I'm hearing Roar all over TV, and she is much more well know now than she was when hee second album came out. I was thinking 500K would be realistic.
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foxxden
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Post by foxxden on Oct 24, 2013 15:35:36 GMT -5
She's receiving the most radio airplay and promotion than any artist out there for the past 3 months...this is low relative to that. Like someone said before she will barely outsell Miley. I agree. Let's be honest...she's everywhere. She's been on my yahoo home page every night. I'm hearing Roar all over TV, and she is much more well know now than she was when hee second album came out. I was thinking 500K would be realistic. I was walking home from a fitness class last night in NYC and saw the PRISM stamp on the sidewalk promoting the album's release date. I was like "give me a break"! lol
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Oct 24, 2013 15:38:50 GMT -5
The "persona" explanation is total BS. I'm quite sure we can come up with a list of artists, Mariah Carey in her first 6 years for example, that aren't/weren't know for having exciting, interesting, or provocative personas.......but sold boat loads of albums. We are still in an era where most albums are barely going platinum so it shouldn't be at all surprising to see Katy opening at 300K, especially when she is shifting that many singles. Very few artists can shift both singles and albums and Katy, if I'm not mistaken, is second in line for the top of the overall leaderboard. The better explanation would be that brand wise, the general public likely sees her more as a singles artist than an album artist. That both the teams behind her and Rihanna seem to have recognized that today's music buying market is more rooted in "pick and choose" song purchases rather than full artistic and conceptual album creations. So instead of making thematic, connected albums, they chock the EP full of hits that will sell individual. Even then, Katy's last album sold 2MM copies so I'd say she's connected with quite a few people already. Plus, rabid fandoms are overated and rarely have the numbers to significant move units or make something a hit (Monsters, Lambs, Beyhive, I'm looking at you). All they are good for is having loud voices on internet music forums and Twitter. I'm not sure how you can put those first two paragraphs together with a straight face. You cite Mariah's huge album success in the nineties as evidence that the persona explanation makes no sense, yet acknowledge that albums are barely going platinum these days. Of course an album would sell better in the nineties. People bought albums back then, singles weren't released individually, etc. To get people to buy an album, they need to be invested in you, or convinced that they will like more than a handful of singles (and having 6-7 hits off the same album will do the trick). I think, considering how weakly I believe the public to be attached to Katy Perry the person, are quite good. Obviously the point flew right over your head. The comparison was merely a reference but the obvious point was that "persona" has little to do with moving album sales....hence me calling it total bulls**t. Regardless of if it was in the 90's (when albums sold) or the 00's (when albums don't), "personality" has never been a measure to substantiate the number of units an artist can or should move.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Oct 24, 2013 15:50:37 GMT -5
See I'd say 400K is good for Gaga since this era hasn't been that hugely big for her. Huh? Applause is an airplay hit. The album has great pre-orders. DWUW was just #1 at iTunes.
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Verisimilitude
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Post by Verisimilitude on Oct 24, 2013 16:04:59 GMT -5
I'd love to see TLC sneak into the top 10.
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Oct 24, 2013 16:05:19 GMT -5
OFF TOPIC: I think GaGa will pull 375-400k+. Interscope/GaGa's promotion train is different from Capitol/Katy's.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 24, 2013 16:06:02 GMT -5
Katy is a singles artist, not an album artist. At least not yet. Maybe she never will be. Not everybody is able to move loads of singles and albums, especially these days.
Not that big a deal in any case.
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dbhmr
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Post by dbhmr on Oct 24, 2013 16:18:50 GMT -5
I'm not sure how you can put those first two paragraphs together with a straight face. You cite Mariah's huge album success in the nineties as evidence that the persona explanation makes no sense, yet acknowledge that albums are barely going platinum these days. Of course an album would sell better in the nineties. People bought albums back then, singles weren't released individually, etc. To get people to buy an album, they need to be invested in you, or convinced that they will like more than a handful of singles (and having 6-7 hits off the same album will do the trick). I think, considering how weakly I believe the public to be attached to Katy Perry the person, are quite good. Obviously the point flew right over your head. The comparison was merely a reference but the obvious point was that "persona" has little to do with moving album sales....hence me calling it total bulls**t. Regardless of if it was in the 90's (when albums sold) or the 00's (when albums don't), "personality" has never been a measure to substantiate the number of units an artist can or should move. Well now that you've morphed the argument to being about personality, I think it carries less weight; but I do think that in today's music landscape, one of the reasons people buy whole albums instead of singles/songs they like is that they feel an attachment to the artist his/herself. People loved Adele's music, but they also loved her story, her attitude, her humility, her humor; people are drawn to Kanye West's stature, presence, ego, etc. The music matters, too, and I don't think this is the only factor working against (if you can call ~300k opening something negative) Katy Perry, but for someone pointing out the alleged points flying over others' heads, you seem to be missing the one that started it all.
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spooky21
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Post by spooky21 on Oct 24, 2013 16:23:43 GMT -5
Obviously the point flew right over your head. The comparison was merely a reference but the obvious point was that "persona" has little to do with moving album sales....hence me calling it total bulls**t. Regardless of if it was in the 90's (when albums sold) or the 00's (when albums don't), "personality" has never been a measure to substantiate the number of units an artist can or should move. Well now that you've morphed the argument to being about personality, I think it carries less weight; but I do think that in today's music landscape, one of the reasons people buy whole albums instead of singles/songs they like is that they feel an attachment to the artist his/herself. People loved Adele's music, but they also loved her story, her attitude, her humility, her humor; people are drawn to Kanye West's stature, presence, ego, etc. The music matters, too, and I don't think this is the only factor working against (if you can call ~300k opening something negative) Katy Perry, but for someone pointing out the alleged points flying over others' heads, you seem to be missing the one that started it all. Jesus Fffking Christ. Read the original statement by the OP. It was about Katy Perry's lack of persona, i.e. personality, being responsible for her lack of album sales and mine was a counter argument that personas have very little to do with album sales. Ugh, I'm done.
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