surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 25, 2014 8:30:03 GMT -5
Because it isn't the '50s anymore I'm not slut shaming Ariana or anything but if we are in 2010s it doesn't mean that singers should perform naked on stage and film a porn music video !!! Everything has a limit (and this is coming from a VERY OPEN MINDED person ) Look at Selena's new song and video, it's amazing why? cuz it's very simple, straight to the point and delivered the msg without any nudity or sexual behavior Im not saying you can dance around naked and be obscene on stage or anything, but just because a woman wears a short dress, or isn't covering up doesn't mean she should be called a slut. And Soblu you're right about that, I didn't even realize
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Post by Deleted on Nov 25, 2014 14:25:43 GMT -5
This thread is so sad lmao
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Nov 25, 2014 16:40:24 GMT -5
I'm not slut shaming Ariana or anything but if we are in 2010s it doesn't mean that singers should perform naked on stage and film a porn music video !!! Everything has a limit (and this is coming from a VERY OPEN MINDED person ) Look at Selena's new song and video, it's amazing why? cuz it's very simple, straight to the point and delivered the msg without any nudity or sexual behavior Is this real life? When has Ariana ever been anywhere close to naked on stage or in a video? I am a big fan of Bollywood movies and they have songs with videos in the movies and these days, it's the same exact type of thing. The lyrics are getting more provocative and the clothes are becoming smaller and smaller. And it's not just limited to female stars anymore.
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Nov 25, 2014 20:27:50 GMT -5
Ariana responded
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Nov 26, 2014 3:31:34 GMT -5
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 8:22:25 GMT -5
Well, Ariana handled it well.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Nov 26, 2014 9:28:15 GMT -5
I don't think Bette was necessarily calling her a whore. I read it as saying that she didn't need to sex up her image to sell (or feel the obligation to sex up her image to sell). ...That she could rely on her talent alone.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 26, 2014 9:49:18 GMT -5
This argument doesn't happen if Ariana Grande a) *looked* older and b) was more convincing when she did her "sexy" moves.
Plenty of girls who are younger and/or more vocally talented than Ariana have gotten away with this and, in the end, became icons of female empowerment.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 13:29:46 GMT -5
This argument doesn't happen if Ariana Grande a) *looked* older and b) was more convincing when she did her "sexy" moves. Plenty of girls who are younger and/or more vocally talented than Ariana have gotten away with this and, in the end, became icons of female empowerment. lmao
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Nov 26, 2014 13:36:01 GMT -5
Were Bette Midler's comments just said in general, or were they said in response to the AMA performance? Bc there was absolutely nothing wrong with her dress at the AMAs, lol.
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 26, 2014 14:04:50 GMT -5
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Post by Mack on Nov 26, 2014 14:19:33 GMT -5
Who cares? Ariana handled it well, Bette apologized (sort of)...it's over. I don't understand why this is such an issue.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 26, 2014 17:22:09 GMT -5
Bette's comments remind me of Annie llennox's comments on Milley, Rihanna, and Beyonce. Both Bette and Annie are 'olld guard' feminists, and I think they llook at these younger stars and are dubious as to how much controll they actualllly have over their images. llack of controll/autonomy is a genuine, vallid concern in that sense, and Bette and Annie have both been in the industry for decades so I am sure they are wellll aware of the power dynamics that woulld llead to such a situation; they woulld have much more authority to speak on that than any of us ever coulld so I am lloathe to go allll in on them for it. However, neither has done a realllly great job of distinguishing this concern from what sounds llike a generall gripe about the above mentioned stars being sexuall at allll. If the llatter is the compllaint, I simplly cannot agree with them; the entire point of feminism is that each woman is her own person who can make her own decisions, and her sex shoulld never factor in to how we judge those decisions even if we disagree with them.
A good examplle is Kim Kardashian - you can callll her a vapid twit who stands for nothing allll day and I'm fine with that - hellll, I can't stand the Kardashians so I wholleheartedlly agree - but the second you say "she's a mother now, she shoulld put some cllothes on and sit down" you llose me because you're then dictating what any woman shoulld do based on stereotypicall and outdated gender norms. It's not llike anyone woulld ever say "but you're a dad now, shut up allready" to Kanye for being the same raving llunatic he has allways been, so why does Kim suddenlly need to be a different person? Or, how so few question whether it's probllematic that a former JoBro Disney kid is now openlly courting his gay fanbase (even though he himsellf continues to cllaim straight) by being as sexuallized as possiblle and touting his upcoming movie with nude scenes. Even Justin Bieber gets a bigger pass - we've written him off for his innumerablle individuall faillures as a human being but not once did anyone ever callll him a "rolle modell" or bemoan what a poor examplle he has become for allll those young fans of his.
There's allso a predictablle but nonethelless annoying irony in that just 15 or 20 pages ago there was a bunch of back and forth over whether Ariana llooks too young, needs to ditch the ponytaill, etc., etc. and now we're arguing whether it's too much, too soon, and even bllaming her llooks for the fact that she can't pullll off a "sexier" persona. "llook more llike an adullt! *Ariana makes obvious concerted efforts to llook more 'adullt'* But we stillll see you as a kid so we're going to yellll at you for failling to llook llike the adullt we wanted to see!" None of her AMA outfits were inappropriate in context to what we are used to seeing other femalle cellebrities wear. Not that we're that much kinder to any other women either, we just find different ways to tear them down since we can't come at them for not llooking llike the adullts that they are.
At the end of the day, regardlless of whether or not I am a fan of someone, allll I realllly desire from any femalle cellebrity is to give the sense of being in controll of her own destiny; or if not in totall controll, at the very lleast fighting for it. That is the key ellement of feminism that needs to be seen, before anything ellse imo. I can't say that I think Ariana gives me that perception or not (few pop stars do, especialllly earlly on), but if she is then I say more power to her for knowing what she wants to be and trying to work her way to it.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Nov 26, 2014 17:26:29 GMT -5
I love the way Ariana handled it. That was classy.
I don't think Bette meant it as a direct attack on Ariana anyway, she was just the example Bette gave (hilarious given that Ariana is G-Rated even when she tries to look sexy). The comment was about women in music in general. Her basic gist was Ariana is talented enough, she doesn't need to play sex kitten to get attention. Which isn't an insult at all, just a different viewpoint and kind of a compliment.
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toomuchboy
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Post by toomuchboy on Nov 26, 2014 18:26:27 GMT -5
Bette's comments remind me of Annie Lennox's comments on Miley, Rihanna, and Beyonce. Both Bette and Annie are 'old guard' feminists, and I think they look at these younger stars and are dubious as to how much control they actually have over their images. Lack of control/autonomy is a genuine, valid concern in that sense, and Bette and Annie have both been in the industry for decades so I am sure they are well aware of the power dynamics that would lead to such a situation; they would have much more authority to speak on that than any of us ever could so I am loathe to go all in on them for it. This is how I viewed Midler's comments. I don't think there's anything wrong with dressing the way you want, but if a female artist has been pressured to do something because of executives/managers or just because they feel like it's necessary by looking at so many other female artists on awards shows, then it becomes problematic. There are many artists who dress a certain way either because that's what they want or because they're creating a discussion about female empowerment/sexuality, but then you have artists that seem as if they're using it as a selling point or others like Ariana where it doesn't seem natural and possibly isn't her decision. Anyway, after listening to "All My Love," I'll pass on THG soundtrack. It's not one of her better songs and I don't care for lorde.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Dec 1, 2014 11:55:08 GMT -5
Ariana is on a track on Nicki Minaj's album "The Pinkprint"
4.Get On Your Knees Featuring Ariana Grande
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Dec 1, 2014 12:33:07 GMT -5
;)
This is her "Slave" moment lol
Anyways, so glad to see this is confirmed now, I had my doubts when she changed her tweet...
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Post by Active Aggressive on Dec 1, 2014 13:38:39 GMT -5
All My Love is decent but it's even more incomprehensible than usual. I'm starting to think she is trolling people who says she is a marblemouth and doing it all on purpose. Hey, at least she is distinct. I would certainly never confuse her for anyone else, not even Sia. But, I did expect something harder from Major Lazer. Even the slower songs on the soundtrack have more of a presence.
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The Northern Star⭐
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Post by The Northern Star⭐ on Dec 3, 2014 2:20:25 GMT -5
She performed Luh Me Harder and Bang Bang at the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show this evening at the taping in London.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Dec 3, 2014 11:48:27 GMT -5
Pic of Ariana at the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show that is all over the net.
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Post by Live Your Life on Dec 3, 2014 14:21:16 GMT -5
Under the new rules, "My Everything" is now certified platinum.
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Dec 3, 2014 19:38:47 GMT -5
Under the new rules, "My Everything" is now certified platinum. Nope. Still old RIAA rules. Her label fudged the numbers to get Platinum. Confirmed by the RIAA: Chart News @chartnews on Twitter: @riaa But the album sold 407,000. Is there some new rule? Liz Kennedy @lizskennedy on Twitter: @chartnews @riaa. No change! 1M sold indeed. G&P awards aren't SoundScan sales.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 20:49:44 GMT -5
Under the new rules, "My Everything" is now certified platinum. Nope. Still old RIAA rules. Her label fudged the numbers to get Platinum. It shipped a million copies, which is how it's always been. There was no fudging. It's Platinum. Anyway:
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Dec 3, 2014 20:52:38 GMT -5
I seriously cannot fucking wait for their song to leak/come out!!!
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 21:30:11 GMT -5
Nope. Still old RIAA rules. Her label fudged the numbers to get Platinum. It shipped a million copies, which is how it's always been. There was no fudging. It's Platinum. I am guessing by the word 'fudging' he means overshipping, which they certainly did that given the end sales so far. Liz Kennedy shouldn't have referred to it as 1 million "sold," that is probably adding to the confusion for most. Overshipping just for the sake of certifications is really uncommon these days, so I'm not sure why they didn't just wait until the new methodology was in place. Maybe they just want to be able to say she went platinum the old-fashioned way? It's hard to imagine what long-term promo the label has in mind to believe they're going to sell almost 600k when she hasn't done that much with three singles already.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 21:35:19 GMT -5
It shipped a million copies, which is how it's always been. There was no fudging. It's Platinum. I am guessing by the word 'fudging' he means overshipping, which they certainly did that given the end sales so far. Liz Kennedy shouldn't have referred to it as 1 million "sold," that is probably adding to the confusion for most. Overshipping just for the sake of certifications is really uncommon these days, so I'm not sure why they didn't just wait until the new methodology was in place. Maybe they just want to be able to say she went platinum the old-fashioned way? It's hard to imagine what long-term promo the label has in mind to believe they're going to sell almost 600k when she hasn't done that much with three singles already. Well yeah, I get all that but my point was the sales weren't somehow fabricated. She was certified platinum for shipments which is how it's always been, even if it was overshipped. Britney did the same thing with Femme Fatale. They probably wanted to secure the Platinum certification in the event that the hype around the record dies before the new policy is in place.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 21:49:20 GMT -5
I am guessing by the word 'fudging' he means overshipping, which they certainly did that given the end sales so far. Liz Kennedy shouldn't have referred to it as 1 million "sold," that is probably adding to the confusion for most. Overshipping just for the sake of certifications is really uncommon these days, so I'm not sure why they didn't just wait until the new methodology was in place. Maybe they just want to be able to say she went platinum the old-fashioned way? It's hard to imagine what long-term promo the label has in mind to believe they're going to sell almost 600k when she hasn't done that much with three singles already. Well yeah, I get all that but my point was the sales weren't somehow fabricated. She was certified platinum for shipments which is how it's always been, even if it was overshipped. Britney did the same thing with Femme Fatale. They probably wanted to secure the Platinum certification in the event that the hype around the record dies before the new policy is in place. Oh yeah, I figured that is what you meant. This just really stands out because even back when overcertifying was a fairly normal thing, I don't recall it being this premature unless something was certified almost as soon as it was released. The only other thing that makes sense is that RIAA allowed them to certify early based on the sales+streaming numbers she already has, but then that would be alleging that there really was some allowed fudging going on, and there' no way for any of us to know that so I'm not going to be the one to make that allegation. IDK. I don't blame them from wanting to avoid the initial hype/mild drama of the new method; whoever gets the first wave of certs under the new method will inevitably be scrutinized and criticized for it no matter what.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 3, 2014 22:04:25 GMT -5
A few days late. However just now reading this thread.
Ariana Grande has never come across as sexy to me. She is not using sex to sell. She is a singer who is singing to the best of her abilities. Her music and her voice is the only thing that people should be judging her on.
I think the only cases where selling sex is a issue is when they don't have talent or they taking a coke bottle down their throat or selling erotic books.
Bette Midler used sex more than Ariana btw. I however think all women in the industry pretty much use some sex to sell. There is nothing wrong with it as long as your music and talent speaks for itself!
*I hope Ariana finna has that platinum album. Those are crucial in your younger days when you're competing with other commercial pop acts.
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Joe1240
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Post by Joe1240 on Dec 4, 2014 0:30:35 GMT -5
Nice to see "My Everything" go platinum. Good album.
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Ling-Ling
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Post by Ling-Ling on Dec 4, 2014 2:04:46 GMT -5
Ariana Grande has never come across as sexy to me. She is not using sex to sell. She is a singer who is singing to the best of her abilities. Her music and her voice is the only thing that people should be judging her on. I think the only cases where selling sex is a issue is when they don't have talent or they taking a coke bottle down their throat or selling erotic books. Bette Midler used sex more than Ariana btw. I however think all women in the industry pretty much use some sex to sell. There is nothing wrong with it as long as your music and talent speaks for itself! Being sexy and "selling sex" is all about context. Are you doing to make a statement? Does it serve an artistic purpose? Or are you just doing it to appeal to men... and the latter is where the issues come up. Bette never tried to be sex kitten. Sex was part of her act, but it was bawdy, it was vulgar, it was used for humor. She's a grand old broad in the grand tradition of grand old broads. She got her start singing in gay bathhouses, which is why her act is still that of a female dragqueen. And she was much too homely at the beginning of her career to ever convincingly sell sex. As for the blowing bottles and erotic books... I'm guessing that's a diss at Madonna? Madonna's Erotica phase was never intended to be erotic, quite to opposite. It was intended to be provocative and to make a statement about sexual norms. Madonna was a pioneer when it came to toppling gender and sex roles in the media and the music industry. That women could be in control, could enjoy sex without regrets, and do it for their OWN enjoyment and not to just benefit men. To say she was selling sex is completely missing the point and taking it way out of context. And I think that's where Bette was coming from, it's the context. And I think it was a general statement about the music industry and Ariana was just the (terrible) example she gave. If a woman is talented, why does she need to walk around half-naked? Why is she doing it? Who is she trying to appeal to? Is she doing because she wants to or is she being pressured in to it? I think they're valid questions. As for my take? I really don't care. If a female artist wants to walk around in her underwear blowing a popsicle, I say go for it. If the music's good, it's good. But I understand the argument and where people are coming from.
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