kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 3, 2014 12:05:51 GMT -5
People seem to conflate price and value a lot, which is unfortunate. Yeah, there are two definitions to devalue. And honestly, the money loss isn't as big of a deal as people would like to make it seem, when millions more people are listening to Spotify, so she's pretty much doubling her money with it... And if they are willing to sacrifice this extra money just to get a few more sales and a bunch of pissed off casual listeners, then that's honestly a stupid business move.You can't possibly think any of that is true. If putting her music on Spotify allowed her to double her money, believe me, her music would be on Spotify.
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Nov 3, 2014 12:07:48 GMT -5
Thoughts: - 'Blank Space' might be the best pop song she has ever written. It's really just as good as 'Trouble' is. - 'Clean' was a perfect way to end this album. - On first listen, this wasn't as good as Speak Now or Red to me. The album is still growing on me, but I don't know where I would place it. I would say it's still probably better than Fearless at least. - Home girl is throwing out "damn" and "hell" yessss. - 'Wildest Dreams' really is Lana Del Rey. Great moment. - 'Bad Blood' is fucking fantastic. Is it a coincidence that "you live like that you live with ghosts" is a lyric???? Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm. The only disappointing thing about that song is that it isn't nearly as biting as 'Better Than Revenge' is. "She's better known for the things that she does on a mattress" is still a much bigger and better punch. - 'I Know Places' was a standout to me. Loved that melody in the chorus that reminded me of this jam. - 'Out Of The Woods' is perfect. - 'You Are In Love' almost got me choked up. Nailed it lyrically. - 'How You Get The Girl' is adorable and will always make me crave a Diet Coke. - The packaging with the polaroids and all of that shit was so great. Her team > your fave's team. - So sad there is no 'Enchanted' or 'All Too Well' here, but the album gives us different greatness. - The voice memos were a really nice touch. - #icon
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 3, 2014 12:08:52 GMT -5
Oh please. Artists make pennies on the dollar with album sales. The label is the one who loses the most from streaming, not artists signed to majors.
Where she makes her real money is in touring and endorsements. And wider access to her music makes that easier
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Nov 3, 2014 12:09:41 GMT -5
People seem to conflate price and value a lot, which is unfortunate. Yeah, there are two definitions to devalue. And honestly, the money loss isn't as big of a deal as people would like to make it seem, when millions more people are listening to Spotify, so she's pretty much doubling her money with it... And if they are willing to sacrifice this extra money just to get a few more sales and a bunch of pissed off casual listeners, then that's honestly a stupid business move. I've done research papers and term papers regarding streaming. That is absolutely not how it works. Artists get paid a fraction of a penny for a stream. It's something of a joke.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 12:10:03 GMT -5
Yeah, there are two definitions to devalue. And honestly, the money loss isn't as big of a deal as people would like to make it seem, when millions more people are listening to Spotify, so she's pretty much doubling her money with it... And if they are willing to sacrifice this extra money just to get a few more sales and a bunch of pissed off casual listeners, then that's honestly a stupid business move.You can't possibly think any of that is true. If putting her music on Spotify allowed her to double her money, believe me, her music would be on Spotify. Then why isn't it?
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 12:12:30 GMT -5
Yeah, there are two definitions to devalue. And honestly, the money loss isn't as big of a deal as people would like to make it seem, when millions more people are listening to Spotify, so she's pretty much doubling her money with it... And if they are willing to sacrifice this extra money just to get a few more sales and a bunch of pissed off casual listeners, then that's honestly a stupid business move. I've done research papers and term papers regarding streaming. That is absolutely not how it works. Artists get paid a fraction of a penny for a stream. It's something of a joke. Yes, but they add up and it only adds to her bank account. I honestly don't see why it's not there.... She still sells, so Spotify does minimal harm to her sales total, if someone wasn't gonna buy an album, they would just listen to it illegally, but with Spotify... Those same people don't have to buy the album and they are giving revenue to the artist and it's all legal...
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theflying
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Post by theflying on Nov 3, 2014 12:13:13 GMT -5
Honestly, Wildest Dreams, I genuinely don't think there's anything wrong with being annoyed because you want Spotify supported because it allows you to get more music cheaply, and her doing this is definitely taking a shot at streaming.
At the same time, I don't think it's good for the industry. When record sales crashed, the industry finally was able to get its head above water with iTunes and legal digital downloading. Spotify takes a shot at that, and pushes us toward a culture where no one owns music; there are no sales.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 12:15:04 GMT -5
Honestly, Wildest Dreams, I genuinely don't think there's anything wrong with being annoyed because you want Spotify supported because it allows you to get more music cheaply, and her doing this is definitely taking a shot at streaming. At the same time, I don't think it's good for the industry. When record sales crashed, the industry finally was able to get its head above water with iTunes and legal digital downloading. Spotify takes a shot at that, and pushes us toward a culture where no one owns music; there are no sales. I know, and I agree with the last paragraph. But since there is really nothing we can do about it, she might as well make a smart business move and just put the songs on Spotify already.
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Nov 3, 2014 12:16:26 GMT -5
I've done research papers and term papers regarding streaming. That is absolutely not how it works. Artists get paid a fraction of a penny for a stream. It's something of a joke. Yes, but they add up and it only adds to her bank account. I honestly don't see why it's not there.... She still sells, so Spotify does minimal harm to her sales total, if someone wasn't gonna buy an album, they would just listen to it illegally, but with Spotify... Those same people don't have to buy the album and they are giving revenue to the artist and it's all legal... Which is a valid argument for streaming, but Taylor herself gets paid almost nothing for her streams. Obviously it's not nothing being she amasses so many streams, but I would assume it's not much at all when looking at other artist's pay stubs and doing the math. The label makes more money from an album sale than Taylor does and the label makes more money from an album sale than a stream. The label's #1 priority is making money. There is nothing that is more important. Taylor is a hot commodity right now. If they can get more sales by removing the albums for streaming, the more money they make. It's as simple as that. As stated, Taylor makes most of her money through her tours and endorsements and, of course, she writes all of her own material so I'm sure she has a sweet publishing deal. She's set. She really doesn't need the money from the streaming if she really is anti-streaming.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 12:20:36 GMT -5
I definitely agree with your post B4L
My main complaint isn't the current album not being released, as I see an argument with that one, what strikes me as stupid would be her removing every single one of her songs, they are all virtually finished with their sales, so I don't see a reason for taking them off...
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Hefty Hanna
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Post by Hefty Hanna on Nov 3, 2014 12:33:39 GMT -5
My theory is that the label wants to capitalize on catalogue sales while 1989 is so hot and I'm guessing Taylor just doesn't want her material up on streaming services. It should also be noted that Taylor gets a bigger piece of the pie in terms of album sales being she writes and produces her own music. She is getting paid more in royalties than an artist like Rihanna or Britney would be.
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newpower
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Post by newpower on Nov 3, 2014 12:37:34 GMT -5
What's her status on the rest of the on-demand services? Has she been taken off all of them as well? The only articles I've seen only discuss Spotify. They removed Shake It Off from Rdio, but the rest of her albums are available there. Album available for streaming, I listen, if I like it I buy it, probably on vinyl Album not available for streaming, I download it You do the math.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 12:38:26 GMT -5
My theory is that the label wants to capitalize on catalogue sales while 1989 is so hot and I'm guessing Taylor just doesn't want her material up on streaming services. It should also be noted that Taylor gets a bigger piece of the pie in terms of album sales being she writes and produces her own music. She is getting paid more in royalties than an artist like Rihanna or Britney would be. I guess this makes sense, but in a couple of weeks, they should put them back up, otherwise there really isn't a point
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Nov 3, 2014 12:41:35 GMT -5
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nightshade
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Post by nightshade on Nov 3, 2014 12:42:29 GMT -5
Apparently, her catalog is still available on Beats Music. any truth to this?
I can't wait to finally see her in Dallas!
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kanimal
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Post by kanimal on Nov 3, 2014 12:42:40 GMT -5
My theory is that the label wants to capitalize on catalogue sales while 1989 is so hot and I'm guessing Taylor just doesn't want her material up on streaming services. It should also be noted that Taylor gets a bigger piece of the pie in terms of album sales being she writes and produces her own music. She is getting paid more in royalties than an artist like Rihanna or Britney would be. It's also the perfect time to make noise from a leverage standpoint. Would be interesting if it amounted to something - the impression I get is that even artists/labels who feel compelled to rely on Spotify for revenue and distro don't necessarily love the payout structure. (The fact that it's allegedly still on some other services would further support this notion) -- Also - for those who are telling Taylor Swift that her two options are to accept a few cents for her album or let people steal it...think about that for a second.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2014 13:04:29 GMT -5
Hefty Hanna the bridge in "Bad Blood" is NOT a coincidence, imo. I am convinced of that...ghost is a common enough metaphor in music, but that definitely jumped out at me and I wonder what other hidden references we are missing. I definitely agree with your post B4L My main complaint isn't the current album not being released, as I see an argument with that one, what strikes me as stupid would be her removing every single one of her songs, they are all virtually finished with their sales, so I don't see a reason for taking them off... As the article Joe1240 stated, Scott Borchetta is trying to drive up the overall value of Big Machine for a possible sale. I think it speaks volumes that he took Taylor's albums off but not his other artists. He isn't a dumb businessman; he must have crunched some numbers before doing this. Plus, catalog sales for artists tend to spike a bit when a new album is released so if people go on Spotify and don't see anything, that spike might be even higher than it normally would be. If he wasn't trying to sell the label I doubt he would have pulled her old stuff. On a side note, anyone can add local computer files to Spotify playlists, so the only fans who are 'hurt' here are the ones who didn't buy the albums and never intended to. I wonder how many of Taylor's Spotify plays are from people who already owned her album and were just using Spotify for reasons of convenience. I suppose the theory for Big Machine is that the money they 'lose' from the loss of streams is less than the money they would gain from album sales. I've seen some graphic before that broke it down and an artist would have to get over 4.5 million streams to make the same amount of money they would have from 1,100 to 3,300 album sales (depending on their royalty rate). I'm rounding these numbers, but point is that the effort to promote your song enough to make people aware of it and want to stream it could have been better spent convincing just a few thousand people to buy the album. Even if we boiled it down to streams versus TEA sales, you just need a few tens of thousands of people to buy individual songs to even it out. All that said, I understand that streaming is not that black-and-white. Different people have different purchasing habits and for many artists, having a 'try before you buy' option actually helps their sales improve. There are other artists who struggle so much to sell that even the pennies they get from Spotify are better than nothing, so they might as well make their music available there. Taylor just happens to not fall in either of those groups. She doesn't have the kind of fanbase that will balk at having to pay full price for the album (look at her NPR interview, she even noted herself how amazing it is that her fans are in fact ferociously protective of her music on her behalf). I honestly can't think of an upside for her to make her music available for streaming, even when I could for several other people. As for Youtube it is a pain in the ASS to listen to songs on repeat there. Videos get pulled randomly, or labels will restrict some vids from being added to playlists. I never realized how inconvenient Youtube was as a media player in its own right until streaming came along and showed how simple it could be. So I can see why they'd leave her songs up on YT, it is not the same type of beast.
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 13:31:35 GMT -5
As I said, due to arguments made by some posters (B4L mainly) I see why they are doing it while the album is still hot, but I do think that it would be smart to release them back once the album calms down.
Sorry, I tend to get into discussions where I might be misinformed and I apologize, but that is the purpose discussion serves I suppose. So thanks you guys for putting up with me haha.
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Au$tin
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Post by Au$tin on Nov 3, 2014 13:31:38 GMT -5
OMG! I really want to go to the KC or Omaha dates!
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Nov 3, 2014 13:45:31 GMT -5
She's coming to Heinz Field. Bitch is booking Stadiums now.
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Mark
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Post by Mark on Nov 3, 2014 13:53:49 GMT -5
She's coming to Heinz Field. Bitch is booking Stadiums now. She played it last year, too! I was there (in the nosebleed seats, but I was still there). With my new job this year, I've been able to save more coins than in the past. Those prime seats at the DC show will be MINE.
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Active Aggressive
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Post by Active Aggressive on Nov 3, 2014 13:54:29 GMT -5
Also, how're you gonna go on about how you love New York, and then not do tour dates there? Glad someone said it, LOL. They might as well snatch her Tourism Ambassador title back tbqh. What kind of fraudulence?? Edit: Oh, she's played JERSEY. K. Was Yankee Stadium not an option? Didn't JT and Jay-Z do their show there? If there are trains that go out to Rutherford, I'll be there. East Rutherford is not New York. This. It's almost comical lmfao. Do the f**king Garden, Taylor. smh Just another reason you are STILL BAE. #sigh She's coming to Heinz Field. Bitch is booking Stadiums now. She did for her last tour, fyi.
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Wavey✨️
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Post by Wavey✨️ on Nov 3, 2014 13:59:49 GMT -5
She's coming to Heinz Field. Bitch is booking Stadiums now. She played it last year, too! I was there (in the nosebleed seats, but I was still there). With my new job this year, I've been able to save more coins than in the past. Those prime seats at the DC show will be MINE. I need to witness a concert in my life. This needs to be it.
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Mark
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Post by Mark on Nov 3, 2014 14:04:40 GMT -5
She played it last year, too! I was there (in the nosebleed seats, but I was still there). With my new job this year, I've been able to save more coins than in the past. Those prime seats at the DC show will be MINE. I need to witness a concert in my life. This needs to be it. You won't regret it. She puts on an amazing show and Heinz Field was a great venue to see it.
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Florencia
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Post by Florencia on Nov 3, 2014 14:54:25 GMT -5
About Spotify, maybe it's Taylor who doesn't like it. FGL & other acts that are part of BMR still have their albums on Spotify.
On another (and more interesting!!) topic, the first numbers are in:
28.40%-- 1 taylor swift 1989 big machine 447,453
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surfy
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Post by surfy on Nov 3, 2014 14:56:08 GMT -5
Damn! I'm ready to watch the slayage unfold!!!
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Nov 3, 2014 15:52:12 GMT -5
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kmbgs
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Post by kmbgs on Nov 3, 2014 16:15:36 GMT -5
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slayZ
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Post by slayZ on Nov 3, 2014 16:20:26 GMT -5
I got 4 text messages from friends about the Spotify thing. This is huge news. Jesus.
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Nov 3, 2014 16:34:36 GMT -5
My brother who hates Taylor texted me about. It's not playing well with casual music listeners at all.
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