felipe
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Post by felipe on Aug 25, 2014 0:25:20 GMT -5
I know a lot of people who'd be able to name recent Pitbull or Flo Rida songs, but wouldn't be able to name any song from BeyoncΓ©'s last album (or the album before, for that matter). And it's not like everybody follows Billboard magazine to know it's sold over 2 million copies and on. And yet, they all know BeyoncΓ© is a famous, successful celebrity. Ask those people if they can name the respective albums from Flo Rida an Pitbull. They wouldn't know. Ask people about The Beatles and they'll remember She loves you, Can't buy me love, Hey Jude and son on. Few will be able to name the respective albums. People remember songs, not albums.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 25, 2014 0:35:46 GMT -5
Ask those people if they can name the respective albums from Flo Rida an Pitbull. They wouldn't know. Ask people about The Beatles and they'll remember She loves you, Can't buy me love, Hey Jude and son on. Few will be able to name the respective albums. People remember songs, not albums. And then ask them about Carole King and you'll probably get an album title. You can't take one example and apply it universally.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Aug 25, 2014 0:41:22 GMT -5
I know a lot of people who'd be able to name recent Pitbull or Flo Rida songs, but wouldn't be able to name any song from BeyoncΓ©'s last album (or the album before, for that matter). And it's not like everybody follows Billboard magazine to know it's sold over 2 million copies and on. And yet, they all know BeyoncΓ© is a famous, successful celebrity. genuine question, why is it that what the people YOU know would be able to name is supposedly more representative than what...oh, i don't know, two million other people might be able to name by Beyonce? we're not just throwing that number in your face because it sounds impressive. we're throwing that number in your face because that's TWO MILLION PEOPLE who can actually name to you a bunch of Beyonce songs! You really think "TWO MILLION PEOPLE" is a big number, as opposed to, say, two hundred million people listening to a song on the radio? Florence + the Machine's last album sold 1 million in the US, and that's a big deal as far as album sales go, but still I don't think that's an album I'd call "popular". I'd think only some people would be able to name Shake it out, and most people wouldn't know a song from that album. Linkin Park's A thousand suns also sold close to 2 million copies in the US (just like BeyoncΓ©) and I also don't think it produced songs that people (not fans) will remember in the long run. My logic applies to any act in the same situation, not just BeyoncΓ©. I know fans are happy when their idol is selling well, specially in today's climate, but I do believe hit songs are the foundation for a long-lasting legacy.
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 25, 2014 0:47:57 GMT -5
genuine question, why is it that what the people YOU know would be able to name is supposedly more representative than what...oh, i don't know, two million other people might be able to name by Beyonce? we're not just throwing that number in your face because it sounds impressive. we're throwing that number in your face because that's TWO MILLION PEOPLE who can actually name to you a bunch of Beyonce songs! You really think "TWO MILLION PEOPLE" is a big number, as opposed to, say, two hundred million people listening to a song on the radio? Florence + the Machine's last album sold 1 million in the US, and that's a big deal as far as album sales go, but still I don't think that's an album I'd call "popular". I'd think only some people would be able to name Shake it out, and most people wouldn't know a song from that album. Linkin Park's A thousand suns also sold close to 2 million copies in the US (just like BeyoncΓ©) and I also don't think it produced songs that people (not fans) will remember in the long run. My logic applies to any act in the same situation, not just BeyoncΓ©. I know fans are happy when their idol is selling well, specially in today's climate, but I do believe hit songs are the foundation for a long-lasting legacy. The thing is, you're limiting the number of people aware of the album and the artist to those who buy it. I'm sure there's some scale that exists that is used in the industry showing a ratio of people who buy an album vs. people who are aware of it and obviously, the awareness factor goes WAY beyond those willing to spend the money on an album. In the case with Beyonce, she has her album, but she also pretty much has the internet as well. I would say the awareness level of her album, and probably her songs as well, is WAY beyond the two million people who bought the record and the X number of millions who heard the songs on the radio. I don't even really know what the point of this argument is anymore.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Aug 25, 2014 0:48:28 GMT -5
Ask people about The Beatles and they'll remember She loves you, Can't buy me love, Hey Jude and son on. Few will be able to name the respective albums. People remember songs, not albums. And then ask them about Carole King and you'll probably get an album title. You can't take one example and apply it universally. I guess many people would remember King for You've got a friend, Beautiful or A natural woman. And even if people remember the name of that one album, I still think they know the songs better. Many people could probably name Pet Sounds as a Beach Boys album, but the first thing that'd come to their minds when asked about the group would probably be Surfin' USA, Surfer Girl or one of the other hit songs. Just like most people know Sgt. Pepper to be a Bealtes album. But the songs are still more important in establishing their legacy.
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Chelsea Press 2
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Post by Chelsea Press 2 on Aug 25, 2014 0:51:32 GMT -5
This was the best moment at the VMAs.
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felipe
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Post by felipe on Aug 25, 2014 0:54:15 GMT -5
You really think "TWO MILLION PEOPLE" is a big number, as opposed to, say, two hundred million people listening to a song on the radio? Florence + the Machine's last album sold 1 million in the US, and that's a big deal as far as album sales go, but still I don't think that's an album I'd call "popular". I'd think only some people would be able to name Shake it out, and most people wouldn't know a song from that album. Linkin Park's A thousand suns also sold close to 2 million copies in the US (just like BeyoncΓ©) and I also don't think it produced songs that people (not fans) will remember in the long run. My logic applies to any act in the same situation, not just BeyoncΓ©. I know fans are happy when their idol is selling well, specially in today's climate, but I do believe hit songs are the foundation for a long-lasting legacy. The thing is, you're limiting the number of people aware of the album and the artist to those who buy it. I'm sure there's some scale that exists that is used in the industry showing a ratio of people who buy an album vs. people who are aware of it and obviously, the awareness factor goes WAY beyond those willing to spend the money on an album. In the case with Beyonce, she has her album, but she also pretty much has the internet as well. I would say the awareness level of her album, and probably her songs as well, is WAY beyond the two million people who bought the record and the X number of millions who heard the songs on the radio. I don't even really know what the point of this argument is anymore. I completely agree with you on that aspect, I was just answering to that guy who kept repeating "TWO MILLION" as if it was this huge number to end all arguments. I agree that the number of people aware of BeyoncΓ©'s album (and the songs) go way beyond the number of copies sold. Many people have heard Pretty Hurts, be it on the album, radio or youtube. But the number is still way smaller than the number of people aware of Wiggle, dispite the latter comes from a commercially disapointing album.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 25, 2014 1:04:42 GMT -5
The point is that no one gives a fuck about Jason Derulo. Beyonce has already left her mark. "Drunk in Love" was a hit - both statistically and culturally. That's all she needed. Her mere existence is enough.
She's at another level that several of you can't seem to comprehend since you stan for flash-in-the-pan irrelevants.
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CammyCan
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Post by CammyCan on Aug 25, 2014 1:16:46 GMT -5
How could anyone think BeyoncΓ© was anything other than f**king incredible? Perfection personified.
edit: Taylor was cute too. :)
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 1:38:52 GMT -5
The thing is, you're limiting the number of people aware of the album and the artist to those who buy it. I'm sure there's some scale that exists that is used in the industry showing a ratio of people who buy an album vs. people who are aware of it and obviously, the awareness factor goes WAY beyond those willing to spend the money on an album. In the case with Beyonce, she has her album, but she also pretty much has the internet as well. I would say the awareness level of her album, and probably her songs as well, is WAY beyond the two million people who bought the record and the X number of millions who heard the songs on the radio. I don't even really know what the point of this argument is anymore. I completely agree with you on that aspect, I was just answering to that guy who kept repeating "TWO MILLION" as if it was this huge number to end all arguments. I agree that the number of people aware of BeyoncΓ©'s album (and the songs) go way beyond the number of copies sold. Many people have heard Pretty Hurts, be it on the album, radio or youtube. But the number is still way smaller than the number of people aware of Wiggle, dispite the latter comes from a commercially disapointing album. Wiggle is also a shit song that barely sold a million (did it sell that much? I'm not looking it up). Talk Dirty would have been a better example to get your point across, but I can't remember what it sold either - it's 2-3 million, and at any rate hardly anyone is going to remember it ten years from now. If we really want to go to the extreme, would you really wager that Robin Thicke was in a better position this time last year, or Carly Rae Jepsen two years before, than Beyonce is now? Do you think the 1-2-3 punch of Blurred Lines/Get Lucky/Happy has truly put Pharrell (as a singer) on the same footing as Beyonce now? Personally I would rather know that the two million people who are aware of my songs are the ones who bought the album than know that I have a googillion audience impressions but the song only went 3x platinum and my album is only going to make just enough money to justify the label keeping me around until the next hot thing comes along. You have confused awareness with actual popularity, which is what Beyonce fans are trying to get across. 2 million people buying an entire album is a sign of Beyonce's continuing popularity, not just the popularity of a song here and a song there. She's not here for quick hits because as someone like Jason Derulo or Robin Thicke shows, quick hits don't necessarily get you a long or impressive career. I think Bey fans are also dismissive of the naysayers' POV because Beyonce's own actions don't come across as someone who cares about the singles. They're just a means to an end. Like, when 4 flopped all over CHR like a dead fish, did she jump ship and run to the nearest EDM producer? No. She went to her home format and kept plugging it over there, and she did fine. Then with this era, she dropped it with no lead-in and only sent one single to CHR. She did no talk shows or other appearances like Idol/The Voice/DWTS. Literally the only thing that carried this album was her name and the Grammys performance. So it's like...why are you going out of your way to shit on someone who has kind of already shitted on CHR as a whole with hardly any effort? I can't claim to know what is actually running through her mind, but it seems that Beyonce does not care and neither do her fans, so why would you? Again, we're not throwing two million in your face because it's a big number (no one said it was an argument ending number so I don't know where you got that from...if we thought numbers is how to shut down arguments we'd be Taylor Swift fans). We're throwing it in your face because it is a big enough number, and a comparable enough number to any female pop star outside of aforementioned Taylor and Adele, that it speaks for how relevant she still is. I think this is something a lot of people don't really consider - you can go on and on about how Bey's relevance is overrated b/c she doesn't have 'major' hits, but if it took Katy five straight #1s just to sell two million, do you really want to know what a Beyonce era would look like if she actually put in the energy it takes to get that many #1s from one album? I don't think some people actually want to see that. You want her to lack 'hits' so you'll have something to nitpick. Anyway, I'm with Max in that I don't really know what the point of this argument is, but I will say that I honestly think the Hive is the reactor, not the instigator of it. So you can't blame them (us w/e I'm a fan) for being defensive.
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14887fan
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Post by 14887fan on Aug 25, 2014 1:50:53 GMT -5
Okay, quick run-down from me.
-Katy's Britney-homage denim outfit was fantastic. -Ariana/Jessie J/Nicki: Great opening from start to finish. Lol @ Nicki not getting her dress done. -Tay was cute. Starting to realize how lame the lyrics are to "Shake it Off", but it's still a fun bop-along, so whatever. -"Dark Horse" over "Partition" for Female Video? Uh-huh, okay, next. -Jay Pharaoh was not funny. Not even once. -Sam Smith is one hell of a vocalist. Love it, love him, but I wish he would've done "I'm Not the Only One". -ORANGE IS THE NEW BLACK CAST LADIES <3 -Usher needs to take his ass back to R&B because his electro-Pop/"let's conform to whatever Pop radio is playing if it means selling out in exchange for a swing and a swipe at a Top 20 Pop hit"-schtick isn't working. -Still have absolutely no idea who Nina Dobrev is. But I do know that she has pissy fans. -5sauce was meh, but do they not sound like every other casual pop boy band, i.e. those '06-'09 fads like Boys Like Girls, Metro Station, Plain White T's, All-American Rejects, etc.? That sound is just so damn dated, but they're 14 year old Aussies who likely have raging hormones and have been endorsed by One Direction, so I guess they'll be here to stay for a year or two. -That Robin Williams tribute actually...kind of pissed me off? Like, obviously may he rest in peace, but if they wanted to tribute him (and a guy who has never really had any involvement in music or music videos whatsoever), was getting some Google Images pictures and throwing it together after an awards acceptance speech as a segue into a commercial break really the appropriate way to go about it? Not even a voiceover. Not even music. Nothing. Just a Powerpoint slideshow of pictures of him for about 15 seconds. Awkward and unnecessary. -When the f**k did Fifth Harmony get a fanbase???? -JLo is so, so hot. Still shocks the hell out of me that she's in her mid-40s. -Iggy/Rita Ora had one of the best performances of the night. -Maroon 5 was pretty good. Still can't get into "Maps", though. -Bey's performance really was incredible. Obviously the best of the night. Must I say more about it? I'd just be repeating what everyone else has already said.
As for those knocking "Wrecking Ball" winning Video of the Year, um, f**k off? It really was the best video of the bunch, A, and B, it is one of, and will remain one of, the most iconic videos ever made. Bar none. Period. End of story. End of discussion. You're actually wrong if you think otherwise and this video deserved its recognition for the impact it made on pop culture and music video history. Not even Queen B herself deserved it over Miley.
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Janhova's Witness
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Post by Janhova's Witness on Aug 25, 2014 2:09:39 GMT -5
I know hundreds of people who can name and sing along to BeyoncΓ© and 4 album tracks and not know anything about whatever Pitbull, Jason Derulo, etc. are releasing as singles.
BeyoncΓ© is this generation's greatest icon and anybody who says otherwise is wrong.
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mluv
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Post by mluv on Aug 25, 2014 2:27:00 GMT -5
I can't believe someone would bring up 'Wiggle' in an argument about significant singles.
Having a hit single does not make one a star. That's why we have the term one hit wonder just for that one song you really liked by that group or singer whose name you've forgotten. Beyonce is a star who's way more than just her music sales. This album will be remembered for the hype, for the invention of the term pulling a Beyonce, for the music videos, for the raunchy performance she did with Jay Z, for all the gossip it's fueled about her (doomed?) marriage and many more things. It's beyond silly to act like this album needed a hit song or else it's going to end up being forgotten. That album and Beyonce is part of pop culture history.
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Flip
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Post by Flip on Aug 25, 2014 2:47:54 GMT -5
SO...
- I watched the show - I've read everything (and liked a lot) in this thread from page 5 to 25
Took me a lot of time, but I don't care :)
It was a great show!
EDIT: I need some GIFs / pics for my profile
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 25, 2014 3:29:04 GMT -5
LOL at people complaining about everything
This was basically a normal VMA event... having watched these since early 2000s this was pretty good. BeyoncΓ© as of course outstanding but all performances were enjoyable. Expected a bit more from Iggy & Rita, Rita's charisma is nonexistent..
Jimmy Fallon was hilarious and Miley's acceptance thing and Nicki's wardrobe malfunction were the regular wtf moments
8/10
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 25, 2014 3:44:56 GMT -5
Okay, quick run-down from me. -That Robin Williams tribute actually...kind of pissed me off? Like, obviously may he rest in peace, but if they wanted to tribute him (and a guy who has never really had any involvement in music or music videos whatsoever), was getting some Google Images pictures and throwing it together after an awards acceptance speech as a segue into a commercial break really the appropriate way to go about it? Not even a voiceover. Not even music. Nothing. Just a Powerpoint slideshow of pictures of him for about 15 seconds. Awkward and unnecessary. Agreed, they could've get someone to say a few words about him.. Common's words about Ferguson were nice though
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Aug 25, 2014 4:38:08 GMT -5
The shots of Miley fake crying while the homeless teen was talking were absurd. You can't have it both ways. She shouldn't have even gone to the stage. And people acting like that was a surprise and what if she didn't win, she said on the preshow that she had something special planned that would shock people in a different way from last year, so it's not like she was unaware she won VOTY.
Katy Perry needs to get her own style instead of ripping off everybody else.
Ariana's Barbie doll hip shake during Bang Bang. Dead.
Nicki should have just set the girls free and grabbed every headline this morning for performing topless after her wardrobe malfunction.
Bey saved the show, hands down. She was absolute perfection. And when Blue said "yay mommy" when Jay brought her on stage, Oh. My. God. That got me in the feels
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Aug 25, 2014 6:11:13 GMT -5
I'm watching and so far:
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Aug 25, 2014 8:41:44 GMT -5
The opening really was nothing great. I was tuning in and out, but I did like Queen B.'s performance overall 9I flipped back and forth, as The Strain was on). The ending was very nice, with Jay and Blue coming on stage. I also can appreciate that she didn't do the expected hits, didn't cater to the average fan, and performed what she wanted to (even if I didn't think she would).
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Envoirment
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Post by Envoirment on Aug 25, 2014 9:12:27 GMT -5
Urgh, so sad I missed this. I ended up falling asleep and I was looking forward to throwing out some shade. :'( Guess I'll have to wait later in the year for the AMAs.
Also, LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL @ people downplaying BeyoncΓ©'s success.
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Post by Rocky on Aug 25, 2014 9:21:59 GMT -5
So the snake that bit Nicki's dancer on the rehearsal was named Rocky. My impact. :'(
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Post by Devil Marlena Nylund on Aug 25, 2014 9:44:58 GMT -5
The thing is, you're limiting the number of people aware of the album and the artist to those who buy it. I'm sure there's some scale that exists that is used in the industry showing a ratio of people who buy an album vs. people who are aware of it and obviously, the awareness factor goes WAY beyond those willing to spend the money on an album. In the case with Beyonce, she has her album, but she also pretty much has the internet as well. I would say the awareness level of her album, and probably her songs as well, is WAY beyond the two million people who bought the record and the X number of millions who heard the songs on the radio. I don't even really know what the point of this argument is anymore. I completely agree with you on that aspect, I was just answering to that guy who kept repeating "TWO MILLION" as if it was this huge number to end all arguments. I agree that the number of people aware of BeyoncΓ©'s album (and the songs) go way beyond the number of copies sold. Many people have heard Pretty Hurts, be it on the album, radio or youtube. But the number is still way smaller than the number of people aware of Wiggle, dispite the latter comes from a commercially disapointing album. How do you know that though? Just because a song hits #6 on the charts and last 40 weeks doesn't make it more recognizable than a song that peaked at #16 with 20 weeks on. The only thing is that the latter song wasn't shoved down our throats as much or as long as the former song.
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Post by Fat Ass Kelly Price on Aug 25, 2014 10:44:15 GMT -5
I don't think Miley was fake crying. I've seen her fake cry. It's terribly comical. Those were real tears.
The homeless guy was kinda cute.
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Spidey
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Post by Spidey on Aug 25, 2014 10:53:28 GMT -5
The performances by Iggy Azalea, Sam Smith and Beyonce were my favorite. Taylor Swift's was cute, but nothing special or groundbreaking. Nicki Minaj and "Anaconda" were the best part of the opening performance. The rest of the performances were quite forgettable.
Can Britney please return to the VMAs?
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Post by when the pawn... on Aug 25, 2014 11:09:14 GMT -5
Beyonce OWNED the show. That performance was outstanding - I thought better than her Super Bowl performance. It was perfect. BLUE DANCING TO FLAWLESS!
Ariana Grande was my other favorite moment of the night - not her performance but her doing to hand tics on the mic like she was Christina Aguilera...but when she was accepting her award. Priceless.
I liked Miley's acceptance speech, I thought it was a good move. I just wish she didn't fake cry sitting perched near the stage.
Taylor's performance could have been a lot worse but still annoying.
Katy Perry and Trey Songz were my least favorite presences during the show.
Nicki was great - "Anaconda" was a lot of fun when it could have been a trainwreck.
Sam Smith obviously can sing but it would have been a lot more fun if Disclosure came for "Latch."
Iggy was good but boring.
I'm shocked by how much I liked Jessie J.
Gwen Stefani was drunk and having a blast.
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Enigma.
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Post by Enigma. on Aug 25, 2014 11:53:44 GMT -5
I miss Gwen Stefani. The solo stuff I mean.
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Wave.
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Post by Wave. on Aug 25, 2014 13:04:19 GMT -5
This happened:
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YourFaveIsAFlop
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Post by YourFaveIsAFlop on Aug 25, 2014 13:04:28 GMT -5
Gwen Stefani was drunk and having a blast. Which is even better because the show started 6 PM in California
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esoteric76
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Post by esoteric76 on Aug 25, 2014 13:29:50 GMT -5
Okay, quick run-down from me. -When the f**k did Fifth Harmony get a fanbase???? When I saw them open for Cher Lloyd, the tweens were going ape-sh*t over every single thing they did. I think their EP opened Top 10 in several international markets too. Someone is definitely doing their job.
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Lahey's Lucky Star
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Post by Lahey's Lucky Star on Aug 25, 2014 14:43:22 GMT -5
-Okay so I kinda cried during Beyonce's performance and Video Vanguard acceptance. -WHO THE F*CK WAS THAT DUDE WITH THE DREADS NEXT TO KATY PERRY? ??? -Just YAAAAAAS at the "Anaconda" performance! -That one "Problem" thing that Jay Pharaoh did was just -Sam and Katy's selfie: -Taylor and Lorde - at Kim giving Kendall five dollars -also @ Becky G photobombing Slayberry at the VMA's red carpet
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