trebor
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Post by trebor on Sept 18, 2014 8:43:16 GMT -5
The backlash on country airplay is felt on the Hot 100 where Garth falls below #25 on The Hot 100 Bubbling Chart (bowed last week at #4)
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liza
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Post by liza on Sept 18, 2014 8:50:58 GMT -5
I've been both waiting and holding off to comment on "People Loving People," but I heard it tonight on the radio during the 5 o'clock hour coming home so thought it was time. First things first, I am a GB fan. I have been since I was a young boy growing up with country music in the 90's. I have all of his albums and think he is an amazingly talented songwriter/performer who forever changed the demographics of country music and expanded the genre beyond the U.S. borders. That said... This song is not at all what I was expecting from Garth's longtime expected return. The first 30 seconds of this song are just...off. Garth's voice just isn't recognizable enough for me, and for those that didn't grow up with him will likely change the station in those first 30 seconds. Even then, the song does start to get catchy and stuck in your head. I do admit I've found myself singing "People Loving People" to myself during the day. It was because of that I wanted to buy the song, however... I have to buy Garth's entire catalog to get this? Not. Happening. I already purchased all of his albums, why am I going to again? So he can up his album sales? Not. Happening. For now, I continue to listen to the song via All Access. And for those of us radio listeners who know about All Access are in the minority. I also don't like corporate radio pushing songs down my throat or into my ears, so that makes me only dislike this song a little bit more than I normally would otherwise. So, where does that leave me? I still don't know...I do enjoy some aspects of this song, but I'm not 100% behind Garth's return like I was expecting I would be and that almost disappoints me. Will this chart into the top 10? I'd have to guess yes as the powers that be will likely make it happen. Would it without there help? Probably not. You don't have to buy his entire catalog to get this song. You can just purchase the new album for $14.99 - People Loving People and another song are available for download now. www.ghosttunes.com/library/?album=bea3df00-25fb-4032-9f92-f93f13a4d740
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Post by tim on Sept 18, 2014 9:05:21 GMT -5
You don't have to buy his entire catalog to get this song. You can just purchase the new album for $14.99 - People Loving People and another song are available for download now. That is true, I had overlooked that. It still doesn't quite change my generalized negative view of how he has chosen to release his music digitally. It really is't any different from when he released The Limited Series in 1998 and another repackaged set in 2005. Although not digital, one just had to buy the set and burn the music onto their computer. This kind of feels like another repackaged The Limited Series set, albeit Vol. 3 and exclusively digital. Anyways, I'm not likely going to buy Garth's new album digitally anyways as I'll wait until it's released later this year and pick up the cd at the store.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Sept 18, 2014 10:12:41 GMT -5
The backlash on country airplay is felt on the Hot 100 where Garth falls below #25 on The Hot 100 Bubbling Chart (bowed last week at #4) Because Garth Brooks was such a force on the Hot 100. I'm not worried!
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mylifeback
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Post by mylifeback on Sept 18, 2014 10:15:04 GMT -5
I didn't realize you couldn't buy this song as a single download & I think that's a real miscalculation by his team. Sure, devoted fans will pony up for the album and/or the bundle, but if he wants to sell beyond his core fan base and expand his music-buying audience, he'll need to realize this is a singles-driven market right now. Casual fans of the song who are not devoted Garth fans can't buy it as a single download? Bad idea and tbh, kind of a turn-off.
I wasn't listening to the country format back when Garth was popular, so I'm really not familiar with his music at all, except for maybe Low Places, so if I happened to really love this track (which I don't at all) and wanted to buy it, I'd be pretty turned off with what looks like a money grab to me. I would not be surprised if they rethink the digital strategy and make single tracks available for purchase.
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Sept 18, 2014 11:43:03 GMT -5
onebuffalo Neither am I :) On the other hand, this track suffers enormously by lacking download sales reported to SoundScan (I assume Ghost Tunes doesn't) and the non-availability in some form on a BDS tracked streaming platform. To pass the points based threshold for the Hot 100, this track needs to post healthy gains over the next couple of weeks; and I'd say it will properly chart in 5 weeks based on airplay tally alone. Going out on a limb here, since I have not followed the MB day to day trends this week. But it is very unlikely that it prematurely b*o-/m*b°s.
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trebor
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Post by trebor on Sept 18, 2014 15:00:55 GMT -5
buythecaseof12: I believe nobody here knows whether Garth Brooks cares or not. But I understand your point and where you are coming from; and I partially agree. Since the world revolves around figures, turnovers, market shares, market penetration and rankings, etc., this move to Ghost Tunes may suit to his most avid fans but it cuts out the vast majority of the public who will be unaware. A ranking in the Hot 100 does not only generate media coverage here but on an international level, also. All lost opportunities when your product is not visible. However, Garth Brooks, and here I am back with you, could not care less when looking back at his achievements and legacy (and I assume, bank account). :)
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mylifeback
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Post by mylifeback on Sept 18, 2014 15:40:57 GMT -5
He may not care particularly about the money, but I think it will still come off that way if a casual listener wants to buy the track but isn't interested in his whole album, and finds they can't purchase it alone. Heck, it's hard enough in this market to get your own fans to buy a whole album, much less get someone new to you as an artist to buy an album.
I still think they will end up deciding to handle his digital store a little differently. If he doesn't want to do iTunes that's one thing, but not letting people buy individual tracks is something completely different.
This discussion aside, however; good for Garth for trying something new in the marketplace. Reminds me of when Pearl Jam took on Ticketmaster back a million years ago.
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liza
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Post by liza on Sept 18, 2014 17:05:19 GMT -5
onebuffalo Neither am I :) On the other hand, this track suffers enormously by lacking download sales reported to SoundScan (I assume Ghost Tunes doesn't) and the non-availability in some form on a BDS tracked streaming platform. To pass the points based threshold for the Hot 100, this track needs to post healthy gains over the next couple of weeks; and I'd say it will properly chart in 5 weeks based on airplay tally alone. Going out on a limb here, since I have not followed the MB day to day trends this week. But it is very unlikely that it prematurely b*o-/m*b°s. I find it difficult to believe that the Ghosttunes sales aren't tracked. I don't believe all the other artists would have their material on there if they didn't get reported.
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Sept 18, 2014 17:39:29 GMT -5
I would HIGHLY doubt Garth Brooks cares about his position on the Hot 100. You can't tell me that those songs that sit in the 70-100 are career changers, especially for someone who has the track record of Garth Brooks. Personally the Hot 100 personifies everything I hate about country music right now, which is catering to the pop crowd to sell singles and solicit Vevo plays. I understand it's part of the business now, but that doesn't mean core country listeners should change their tastes just because some artist releases a pseudo-rap hip/hop song (looking at you Jason Aldean) because it's charting higher on the pop chart.
I would MUCH rather have a traditional country song on the radio that isn't in the Top 500 on itunes than even caring about what's going on with the Hot 100. I can't remember a single time being bummed about a song not peaking at #1 on the chart or even following it besides for the trivia of who is #1, number of weeks, etc. With the new compilation of the chart, it's a joke anyhow.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 18, 2014 21:10:30 GMT -5
I find it difficult to believe that the Ghosttunes sales aren't tracked. I don't believe all the other artists would have their material on there if they didn't get reported. I am sure that anything purchased on GhostTunes counts on SoundScan, but I think what trebor was saying is that sales of Garth's discography bundle or just the new album won't count as individual track sales for "People Loving People" (they'll count as album sales instead). I can't 100% confirm if that's indeed how SoundScan treats the situation but I'm about 99% sure that that's right. Songs that are available only if you buy an album have never counted as individual track sales; thus, we can expect to see PLP lag on any charts where sales are a factor, including the Hot 100 and also Hot Country Songs. Basically Garth is ignoring the market. He doesn't care about singles charts (other than radio airplay charts). He's really trying to preserve the concept of the album. I do appreciate that concept because I rarely buy standalone tracks, but at the same time, I don't think it will work out well for Garth. People who just want to buy PLP are either not going to buy it, or they are going to find a way to download it illegally. I am sure that Garth's catalog will sell very well over the next few months, but in the long run, I think it would make more sense to offer tracks individually. Everybody else already does it. That's not the best justification for Garth to do it, but it's how the market is set up, and Garth isn't going to change that. I just don't see how forcing people to buy a whole album will work out for Garth. There are those of us who will buy a whole album (probably me), but as others (including mylifeback) have said, it's going to be harder for Garth to attract new fans. Nowadays people just don't buy albums all that much unless they are a huge fan of the entire album. I am sure that Garth does care about things like making money and doing well at radio, but he probably doesn't care about any singles-based charts that involve digital track sales. He's very well aware that not offering songs for individual download will work against him on charts such as Hot Country Songs.
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gardyfan
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Post by gardyfan on Sept 19, 2014 9:32:02 GMT -5
He may not care particularly about the money, but I think it will still come off that way if a casual listener wants to buy the track but isn't interested in his whole album, and finds they can't purchase it alone. Heck, it's hard enough in this market to get your own fans to buy a whole album, much less get someone new to you as an artist to buy an album. I still think they will end up deciding to handle his digital store a little differently. If he doesn't want to do iTunes that's one thing, but not letting people buy individual tracks is something completely different. This discussion aside, however; good for Garth for trying something new in the marketplace. Reminds me of when Pearl Jam took on Ticketmaster back a million years ago. His retirement tour was $20 per ticket. he took the loss if that market would have been charging more. So far they have been $67.50 on this tour. That's not too bad, although for top of the arena I don't think i'd pay that.
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Sept 19, 2014 14:39:12 GMT -5
I presume his engineer, Mark Miller, is not the same as the lead singer of Sawyer Brown?
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Post by areyoureadytojump on Sept 19, 2014 22:30:14 GMT -5
I've heard this once. I thought it was awful.
I was at Best Buy on Thursday.
They had Garth Brooks cds!!
They are being shipped out again!
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Sept 20, 2014 1:59:27 GMT -5
I presume his engineer, Mark Miller, is not the same as the lead singer of Sawyer Brown? Nope. SB's Mark Miller produces Christian acts.
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HolidayGuy
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Post by HolidayGuy on Sept 20, 2014 6:16:10 GMT -5
Yes, Brooks has little to no interest in Hot 100 positions. And never has.
he's likely to enjoy plenty of all-around success, nonetheless.
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lasvegaskid
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Post by lasvegaskid on Sept 20, 2014 9:15:58 GMT -5
No interest in Hot 100? Huh? Ever heard of a guy called Chris Gaines?
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Sept 20, 2014 9:24:22 GMT -5
No interest in Hot 100? Huh? Ever heard of a guy called Chris Gaines? That was different. It was from a soundtrack to a movie that was NEVER released. What happened there, anyway?
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Ten Pound Hammer
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Post by Ten Pound Hammer on Sept 20, 2014 17:04:54 GMT -5
No interest in Hot 100? Huh? Ever heard of a guy called Chris Gaines? That was different. It was from a soundtrack to a movie that was NEVER released. What happened there, anyway? Garth lost his bleeping mind and decided that a pseudonymous album in a different style would be a good idea? Oh well. Could've been worse. His alter ego could've been Christine Gaines.
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.indulgecountry
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Post by .indulgecountry on Sept 20, 2014 19:31:25 GMT -5
Until this discussion brought it to my attention, I didn't realize that he's never even had a Top 40 hit on the Hot 100. And as for him not conforming to the digital trends of today, I'm not terribly surprised by it, though I can see why it is frustrating for consumers and not the best business model in today's market for him to achieve the best all-around success. I'd be a little more bothered by it though if I were actually a fan, but since I have no interest in his music, I can't say his actions affect me much. (Though Trisha now following in his example I do have a problem with, as I am a fan of her's.)
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Sept 21, 2014 13:49:30 GMT -5
Until this discussion brought it to my attention, I didn't realize that he's never even had a Top 40 hit on the Hot 100. And as for him not conforming to the digital trends of today, I'm not terribly surprised by it, though I can see why it is frustrating for consumers and not the best business model in today's market for him to achieve the best all-around success. I'd be a little more bothered by it though if I were actually a fan, but since I have no interest in his music, I can't say his actions affect me much. (Though Trisha now following in his example I do have a problem with, as I am a fan of her's.) You're right. To continue the Chris Gaines situation, Lost In You was a #62 country, #5 Hot 100, and #9 adult contemporary hit. To placate the country crowd, he released It Don't Matter To The Sun, which peaked at #24 country. On the Hot 100, Garth Brooks made his debut there with It's Your Song (#62-also a #9 country hit in 1998). His biggest hit on the Hot 100 is Wrapped Up In You (#46-also a #5 country hit in 2002).
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 21, 2014 18:14:02 GMT -5
The methodology of the Hot 100 has changed so much over the years, though. Garth was 9 years into his career with 18 #1 hits and 12 other top 10's before he first charted on the Hot 100 ("It's Your Song", mentioned by onebuffalo above). It's the same for other country artists, too. Kenny Chesney only had one Hot 100 hit prior to 1998, and many of Tim McGraw's early big hits didn't chart there either, although he did score Hot 100 hits with "Indian Outlaw" (#15), "Don't Take The Girl" (#17), "I Like It, I Love It" (#25), and "It's Your Love" (#7) prior to 1998. Nearly all of Garth's big hits were released when country songs generally weren't charting on the Hot 100. I wasn't even 10 years old back then, though, so I don't know what the Hot 100 methodology was (nor do I follow it now) or why they didn't allow country radio hits on there. Garth doesn't have any Gold or Platinum singles, either, and why would he? He's never released individual tracks in any format. But I don't think he's too upset about that. He's the best-selling artist in the US (nearly 70 million albums sold) since SoundScan started keeping track in 1991. I don't know that this album-only situation will work in today's marketplace, although I admit that I do like the concept of preserving "the album". I do think Garth will be hurt by not having "People Loving People" available for purchase, but perhaps he's trying to skip the era of "the single" altogether, now that streaming numbers are starting to really cut into the purchase of digital singles. People can still hear PLP online, but they just can't own it for themselves until the album drops or unless they buy it as part of the album pre-order.
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someguy
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Post by someguy on Sept 21, 2014 18:49:33 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, they only allowed songs to chart that had a single available for purchase. Since most country singles weren't available to purchase, they were ineligible chart.
Even some huge Pop hits, like No Doubt's "Don't Speak", never made the chart.
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dajross6
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Post by dajross6 on Sept 21, 2014 21:17:12 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, they only allowed songs to chart that had a single available for purchase. Since most country singles weren't available to purchase, they were ineligible chart. Even some huge Pop hits, like No Doubt's "Don't Speak", never made the chart. I believe the methodology changed in late 1998 after Goo Goo Dolls "Iris" spent 18 weeks at #1 on Airplay. It did end up peaking at #9 I believe later when the methodology changed to allow radio singles to chart separately, but the chart wasn't reflecting what was actually happening in the industry. But yes, only commercially released singles were allowed to chart, and country singles didn't sell that well if they weren't serviced to pop (which virtually none were). Garth was extremely popular in the early 1990s though, even in pop circles, so I'm guessing if his big hits had singles released he would have charted fairly high. He sold about 100 million albums to more than country fans I'm guessing.
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Sept 22, 2014 14:16:51 GMT -5
If I remember correctly, they only allowed songs to chart that had a single available for purchase. Since most country singles weren't available to purchase, they were ineligible chart. Even some huge Pop hits, like No Doubt's "Don't Speak", never made the chart. I believe the methodology changed in late 1998 after Goo Goo Dolls "Iris" spent 18 weeks at #1 on Airplay. It did end up peaking at #9 I believe later when the methodology changed to allow radio singles to chart separately, but the chart wasn't reflecting what was actually happening in the industry. But yes, only commercially released singles were allowed to chart, and country singles didn't sell that well if they weren't serviced to pop (which virtually none were). Garth was extremely popular in the early 1990s though, even in pop circles, so I'm guessing if his big hits had singles released he would have charted fairly high. He sold about 100 million albums to more than country fans I'm guessing. I love your post for mentioning the Goo Goo Dolls (they are from Buffalo). Second, when Billboard ranked the top artist of the 1990s on the pop side, Garth Brooks finished third behind Janet Jackson (#2) and Mariah Carey (#1). He managed such a feat solely on his performance on the top 200 chart (considering his Hot 100 performance was virtually nonexistent). How's that for an achievement?
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Oct 5, 2014 22:57:59 GMT -5
For a "Superstar", not making the single available on ITunes cannot help make this song popular. In terms of radio, we really don't know if he still is a "Superstar" in 2014. I think anyone not making a song available to iTunes makes a song harder to become popular. But I think, "Superstars" are the few who could possibly still have a song get popular without iTunes. It's the lesser known acts that will have no shot if they don't release it to iTunes. As annoying as it is to not have his music on iTunes, I admire him standing up for what he believes is right. While GhostTunes will never take off, he did allow his fans to buy his music on-line at price that was an amazing deal.
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Post by countrysuperfan on Oct 6, 2014 5:19:03 GMT -5
Until this discussion brought it to my attention, I didn't realize that he's never even had a Top 40 hit on the Hot 100. And as for him not conforming to the digital trends of today, I'm not terribly surprised by it, though I can see why it is frustrating for consumers and not the best business model in today's market for him to achieve the best all-around success. I'd be a little more bothered by it though if I were actually a fan, but since I have no interest in his music, I can't say his actions affect me much. (Though Trisha now following in his example I do have a problem with, as I am a fan of her's.) The Hot 100 in the early 90s when he peaked was based on physical cd single sales. I'm not sure if he even released his songs in that format?
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onebuffalo
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Post by onebuffalo on Oct 6, 2014 12:02:18 GMT -5
For a "Superstar", not making the single available on ITunes cannot help make this song popular. In terms of radio, we really don't know if he still is a "Superstar" in 2014. Garth Brooks during the early 1990s is certainly different than Garth Brooks 2014. We will see how much 'juice' he has in terms of singles and sales from People Loving People and Man Against Machine.
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rsmatto
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Post by rsmatto on Oct 6, 2014 17:33:03 GMT -5
Garth allowed us the opportunity to drop down $15. or $30. for a new single. I am sure that many of his fans already own most of the music that comes in the $30. bundle. As far as the new $15. CD, the buyers probably have not heard any other track off of the new CD (which won't be out for another month or two)--and may have preferred to just lay out $1.29 for the single. I bought the $30. bundle--since I don't own much of Garth's previous Cds. I got tired of PLP after about a week. I own ALL of his material yet I 'double dipped' for it on the digital format? Why? I didn't have the old albums on 'digital' yet (had not ripped them) and $30 saves me time and basically buys the two new albums coming. so if you look at it like you're spending $30 for the two upcoming albums, you got the catalog for free and -- in my case -- I didn't have to spend my time ripping the tracks onto my computer.
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McCreerian
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Post by McCreerian on Oct 6, 2014 18:11:13 GMT -5
Garth allowed us the opportunity to drop down $15. or $30. for a new single. I am sure that many of his fans already own most of the music that comes in the $30. bundle. As far as the new $15. CD, the buyers probably have not heard any other track off of the new CD (which won't be out for another month or two)--and may have preferred to just lay out $1.29 for the single. I bought the $30. bundle--since I don't own much of Garth's previous Cds. I got tired of PLP after about a week. I own ALL of his material yet I 'double dipped' for it on the digital format? Why? I didn't have the old albums on 'digital' yet (had not ripped them) and $30 saves me time and basically buys the two new albums coming. so if you look at it like you're spending $30 for the two upcoming albums, you got the catalog for free and -- in my case -- I didn't have to spend my time ripping the tracks onto my computer. Or if you're like me and only owned his previous albums (Other than Walmart releases) on cassettes!
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