matty005
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Post by matty005 on Sept 26, 2015 11:39:11 GMT -5
It's actually not the music that it's turning me off this era, it's their attitude, especially Kimberly's. She just seems too disingenous and comes off as defensive (probably because down deep she knows she is not being true to herself) I can see what you're saying, but how do we know she's not being true to herself? Maybe this is what they wanted to do all along and couldn't until they were successful enough in the industry. Or maybe, like most people do in life, their tastes and styles change. Just because an artist (or someone) changes who they were from a few years ago doesn't necessarily mean they're not being true to themselves
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 11:51:02 GMT -5
What amazes me about this whole thing is just how disingenuous The Band Perry is coming across as. Like how does an act go thru such well written songs like If I Die Young, Better Dig Two and then have a gorgeous cover of Gentle On My Mind. To go from that to terrible choreography in the music video (that creeped me out) the behavior of all of them basically acting like brats particularly Kimberly. But those lyrics are just the most immature thing I have seen. Also .indulgecountry I have listened to Pioneer and that album never worked at all wasn't good whatsoever and honestly as Country Perspective said in the arcticle above they have no musical direction first their debut album was rootsy than they had Pioneer and album that was just such a sonic departure from the debut you couldn't recognize what they were doing. Then they throw the curveball and release Gentle On My Mind. Now they release a real trashy pop song in Live Forever that isn't even that well written. Look if Borchetta wants to make his acts more radio friendly that is fine but don't make it so those acts lose their identities and become puppets to Mr. Borchetta. All of this defending feels fake and scripted.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Sept 26, 2015 11:59:31 GMT -5
I don't see this song as trashy at all. I understand people might not like it, but it's not trashy at all.
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freeman
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Post by freeman on Sept 26, 2015 12:10:26 GMT -5
It's actually not the music that it's turning me off this era, it's their attitude, especially Kimberly's. She just seems too disingenous and comes off as defensive (probably because down deep she knows she is not being true to herself) I can see what you're saying, but how do we know she's not being true to herself? Maybe this is what they wanted to do all along and couldn't until they were successful enough in the industry. Or maybe, like most people do in life, their tastes and styles change. Just because an artist (or someone) changes who they were from a few years ago doesn't necessarily mean they're not being true to themselves I agree. :) Sometimes people assume to know what is going on in other people's minds when in reality it's impossible. Maybe they're being genuine maybe not. Only they know. I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst. I understand Kimberly's defensive words because it seems a lot of people are attacking them on not being authentic and she should stand up for herself. It's not whiny or bratty to be defensive.
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.indulgecountry
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Best Country Poster 2011, 2017, & 2018
"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Sept 26, 2015 12:30:37 GMT -5
I feel like this is becoming a bandwagon thing and the more people talk about the song the worse it gets. Like now it's a trashy pop song? ... What? Lol. This song feels like a "Done." Part II to me but just with the production leaning more on the pop side ("Done." had noticeable fiddle, for instance), but the lyrics, energy, and general feel of this song reminds me a lot of "Done." I'm just failing to see the big sonic chance. It's a much smaller one for me, because they already had songs in a very similar vein to this on Pioneer. Also .indulgecountry I have listened to Pioneer and that album never worked at all wasn't good whatsoever and honestly as Country Perspective said in the arcticle above they have no musical direction first their debut album was rootsy than they had Pioneer and album that was just such a sonic departure from the debut you couldn't recognize what they were doing. Then they throw the curveball and release Gentle On My Mind. Now they release a real trashy pop song in Live Forever that isn't even that well written. So if Pioneer wasn't a good album, then why is it "Live Forever" that has you up in arms? It sounds like The Band Perry lost you a few years ago already so I'm not sure why this particular single is on the receiving end of all this frustration. If what you say is true, you haven't been a fan of their musical direction for awhile now so I'm not following your argument here. Personally I think Pioneer is a much stronger album than their debut and has held up better over time, while some of the songs on their debut always sounded a bit like filler and now also sound dated. I've liked everything from them aside from "Hip to My Heart" though, so I think they just make good music regardless.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 12:41:14 GMT -5
I feel like this is becoming a bandwagon thing and the more people talk about the song the worse it gets. Like now it's a trashy pop song? ... What? Lol. This song feels like a "Done." Part II to me but just with the production leaning more on the pop side ("Done." had noticeable fiddle, for instance), but the lyrics, energy, and general feel of this song reminds me a lot of "Done." I'm just failing to see the big sonic chance. It's a much smaller one for me, because they already had songs in a very similar vein to this on Pioneer. Also .indulgecountry I have listened to Pioneer and that album never worked at all wasn't good whatsoever and honestly as Country Perspective said in the arcticle above they have no musical direction first their debut album was rootsy than they had Pioneer and album that was just such a sonic departure from the debut you couldn't recognize what they were doing. Then they throw the curveball and release Gentle On My Mind. Now they release a real trashy pop song in Live Forever that isn't even that well written. So if Pioneer wasn't a good album, then why is it "Live Forever" that has you up in arms? It sounds like The Band Perry lost you a few years ago already so I'm not sure why this particular single is on the receiving end of all this frustration. If what you say is true, you haven't been a fan of their musical direction for awhile now so I'm not following your argument here. Personally I think Pioneer is a much stronger album than their debut and has held up better over time, while some of the songs on their debut always sounded a bit like filler and now also sound dated. I've liked everything from them aside from "Hip to My Heart" though, so I think they just make good music regardless. No Pioneer had it's moments like Don't Let Me Be Lonely and Better Dig Two and Pioneer. It's frustrating though they came off as genuinely country in their debut as they were plenty of amazing moments like Lasso Quitting You If I Die Young. Heck Done did have a fiddle but it felt like a token fiddle as Done was a pure Rock song and then they painted themselves as rockers. My problem is they've proven thry can make great music but more often they release songs like Done, Chainsaw and niw Live Forever the problem is they lack an identity one album it's solid traditional country with a touch of pop. Than Pioneer the album just lacked a general direction as a whole. Now with the way their getting so defensive the fact that this is a pop song being marketed as country. Hey maybe they should make country music If you find this song too be good than good for you but don't act like this song is country when it's the furthest thing from it.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Sept 26, 2015 12:47:18 GMT -5
I feel like this is becoming a bandwagon thing and the more people talk about the song the worse it gets. Like now it's a trashy pop song? ... What? Lol. This song feels like a "Done." Part II to me but just with the production leaning more on the pop side ("Done." had noticeable fiddle, for instance), but the lyrics, energy, and general feel of this song reminds me a lot of "Done." I'm just failing to see the big sonic chance. It's a much smaller one for me, because they already had songs in a very similar vein to this on Pioneer. So if Pioneer wasn't a good album, then why is it "Live Forever" that has you up in arms? It sounds like The Band Perry lost you a few years ago already so I'm not sure why this particular single is on the receiving end of all this frustration. If what you say is true, you haven't been a fan of their musical direction for awhile now so I'm not following your argument here. Personally I think Pioneer is a much stronger album than their debut and has held up better over time, while some of the songs on their debut always sounded a bit like filler and now also sound dated. I've liked everything from them aside from "Hip to My Heart" though, so I think they just make good music regardless. No Pioneer had it's moments like Don't Let Me Be Lonely and Better Dig Two and Pioneer. It's frustrating though they came off as genuinely country in their debut as they were plenty of amazing moments like Lasso Quitting You If I Die Young. Heck Done did have a fiddle but it felt like a token fiddle as Done was a pure Rock song and then they painted themselves as rockers. My problem is they've proven thry can make great music but more often they release songs like Done, Chainsaw and niw Live Forever the problem is they lack an identity one album it's solid traditional country with a touch of pop. Than Pioneer the album just lacked a general direction as a whole. Now with the way their getting so defensive the fact that this is a pop song being marketed as country. Hey maybe they should make country music If you find this song too be good than good for you but don't act like this song is country when it's the furthest thing from it. So basically, you're frustrated they're not making the music you like. They made it on one album and now you feel like you're owed that every album moving forward or else their music is trashy. Got it.
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 26, 2015 12:53:38 GMT -5
First of all, if this is the authentic TBP and what they wanted to do all along, then they would be much better off in pop. Maybe that's where they really belong, who knows, maybe they really want to be pop stars after all. Nothing wrong with that, just sucks if they're using country as a "safety pillow". Just say you want to make a pop album and see how it goes on that genre, if it doesn't work you can always come back to country.
Second, what makes people think this isn't authentic and genuine, is the fact that several artists on BMLG chose 2015 as the year to embrace a pop sound and look... what a coincidence, don't ya think? TBP even admit they're embracing what is out on country radio now, sounds more like they're following a trend rather then doing their own thing.
Third, Pioneer was good enough. It wasn't great... it was not embraced by their peers when they never nominated the album or its singles for awards. Some songs are great, others can be a little annoying and forgettable in my opinion. I actually enjoyed the old bonus tracks much more than some official songs on the album. I remember some were disappointed because Better Dig Two didn't seem to translate to the rest of the album.
I think they might announce the new album in October, if so I'm pretty sure there'll be a second single released around that time. I think we all need to hear another song and see what the sound and lyrics are like.
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.indulgecountry
Diamond Member
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"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Sept 26, 2015 12:54:12 GMT -5
I feel like this is becoming a bandwagon thing and the more people talk about the song the worse it gets. Like now it's a trashy pop song? ... What? Lol. This song feels like a "Done." Part II to me but just with the production leaning more on the pop side ("Done." had noticeable fiddle, for instance), but the lyrics, energy, and general feel of this song reminds me a lot of "Done." I'm just failing to see the big sonic chance. It's a much smaller one for me, because they already had songs in a very similar vein to this on Pioneer. So if Pioneer wasn't a good album, then why is it "Live Forever" that has you up in arms? It sounds like The Band Perry lost you a few years ago already so I'm not sure why this particular single is on the receiving end of all this frustration. If what you say is true, you haven't been a fan of their musical direction for awhile now so I'm not following your argument here. Personally I think Pioneer is a much stronger album than their debut and has held up better over time, while some of the songs on their debut always sounded a bit like filler and now also sound dated. I've liked everything from them aside from "Hip to My Heart" though, so I think they just make good music regardless. No Pioneer had it's moments like Don't Let Me Be Lonely and Better Dig Two and Pioneer. It's frustrating though they came off as genuinely country in their debut as they were plenty of amazing moments like Lasso Quitting You If I Die Young. Heck Done did have a fiddle but it felt like a token fiddle as Done was a pure Rock song and then they painted themselves as rockers. My problem is they've proven thry can make great music but more often they release songs like Done, Chainsaw and niw Live Forever the problem is they lack an identity one album it's solid traditional country with a touch of pop. Than Pioneer the album just lacked a general direction as a whole. Now with the way their getting so defensive the fact that this is a pop song being marketed as country. Hey maybe they should make country music If you find this song too be good than good for you but don't act like this song is country when it's the furthest thing from it. You literally said "I have listened to Pioneer and that album never worked at all wasn't good whatsoever," so how am I supposed to ascertain from that you actually like part of the album when you basically just wrote it off as being a bad album entirely just a few posts ago? Moments like these are why I struggle to follow your arguments and understand them. One minute something is good but the next minute you're saying it isn't; and vice-versa. Not sure why "Chainsaw" is being lumped in with "Done." and this song, either, considering that song was probably one of the most sonically country releases from them to date, lol. There were plenty of genuinely country songs on Pioneer, including some that you didn't name like "End of Time" and "Mother Like Mine," too. They didn't just suddenly go from full-on country to full-on pop from their debut to Pioneer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 12:58:03 GMT -5
No Pioneer had it's moments like Don't Let Me Be Lonely and Better Dig Two and Pioneer. It's frustrating though they came off as genuinely country in their debut as they were plenty of amazing moments like Lasso Quitting You If I Die Young. Heck Done did have a fiddle but it felt like a token fiddle as Done was a pure Rock song and then they painted themselves as rockers. My problem is they've proven thry can make great music but more often they release songs like Done, Chainsaw and niw Live Forever the problem is they lack an identity one album it's solid traditional country with a touch of pop. Than Pioneer the album just lacked a general direction as a whole. Now with the way their getting so defensive the fact that this is a pop song being marketed as country. Hey maybe they should make country music If you find this song too be good than good for you but don't act like this song is country when it's the furthest thing from it. So basically, you're frustrated they're not making the music you like. They made it on one album and now you feel like you're owed that every album moving forward or else their music is trashy. Got it. No I'm frustrated because 1. Like Country Perspective pointed out they lack artistic integrity and for that matter an identity I like it when artists stay consistent and The Band Perry has been all over the map sound wise. I may not like FGL but there music has stayed the same. I never said Done was trashy or Chainsaw just Live Forever that's it and I stand by it or can you say what is country about it like honestly. Yeah when artists don't make music I like in a while I get sour torwards them that's why I really haven't enjoyed a Blake Shelton song in years now because his early work was so good and now he's making bland and vanilla pop country. When artists make good music I expect more out of them I hold The Band Perry to a higher light than Luke Bryan or Jason Aldean. They've shown they can make good music but now we get bad pop music in Live Forever. Omg Chainsaw was country. I don't know what I'm hearing then as it sounded like outdated rock and had to have been one of the more juvenile songs they've released also weakest hook ever. .indulgecountry what I'm saying is that Pioneer lacked a clear direction that's the same problem I have with Miranda Lambert Platinum or ZBB Jekyll + Hyde Eric Church The Outsiders they lack a pure direction instead they feel like a bunch of random songs lumped together some have pop influence way too much or rock and it just leaves to a jarring listen. If they don't too you than good for you. Honestly I'm done if anybody wants to continue this argument just message me this is just not worth fighting over. Also Live Forever isn't country so yeah I'm gonna bash the song for being a really bad pop song so I will be blue in the face until then but these pop songs or artists being falsely marketed as country artists or songs (Sam Hunt, Kelsea Ballerini, Thomas Rhett, Live Forever and Beautiful Drug). It's this type of stuff that has made me dislike mainstream country music as a whole we have sellouts and we don't have many artists who get radio airplay who actually make country music. No wonder Ashley Monroe and Kacey Musgraves have their albums on Americana because country radio won't touch what they do cause it's too country.
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dajire4
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Post by dajire4 on Sept 26, 2015 14:24:21 GMT -5
It's actually not the music that it's turning me off this era, it's their attitude, especially Kimberly's. She just seems too disingenous and comes off as defensive (probably because down deep she knows she is not being true to herself) I can see what you're saying, but how do we know she's not being true to herself? Maybe this is what they wanted to do all along and couldn't until they were successful enough in the industry. Or maybe, like most people do in life, their tastes and styles change. Just because an artist (or someone) changes who they were from a few years ago doesn't necessarily mean they're not being true to themselves Of course, I don't know what's inside Kimberly's head or heart, but I can only judge them/her from what they've been offering to us up until now. And yes, artists can decide to change styles, but her being so defensive makes it seem like she knows she is not really being true to herself IMHO. On the other hand, if this is what they wanted to do all along (be a pop band), then that still leaves them at fake to me. I guess I'm just really disappointed at their public personas at the moment, moreso than the actual music, which I did find a regression as well.
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 26, 2015 15:10:08 GMT -5
I can see what you're saying, but how do we know she's not being true to herself? Maybe this is what they wanted to do all along and couldn't until they were successful enough in the industry. Or maybe, like most people do in life, their tastes and styles change. Just because an artist (or someone) changes who they were from a few years ago doesn't necessarily mean they're not being true to themselves I agree. :) Sometimes people assume to know what is going on in other people's minds when in reality it's impossible. Maybe they're being genuine maybe not. Only they know. I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst. I understand Kimberly's defensive words because it seems a lot of people are attacking them on not being authentic and she should stand up for herself. It's not whiny or bratty to be defensive. They've always been accused of not being country, or authentic country singers. The difference is before it was just from country fans, now it's from music critics. I really doubt they'd be this defensive if industry insiders with big online following weren't being so critical of their new sound. These "attacks" are coming from people that actually matter, people who actually know what they're talking about. What we, some randoms on the internet, say doesn't really affect TBP much. We are just gooing to be labeled as "haters" being mean because we're "jealous". Their actual problem is what the influential people are saying. "I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst."
woop, sounds like you're the type to call us all troll-looking-jealous-haters-living-in-their-moms-basement.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Sept 26, 2015 15:13:09 GMT -5
Some of the points made in this thread, about pop radio not really wanting country music like TBP says they do, to me perfectly explain the reason we currently have such a "genre problem." Stuff like "Live Forever," "Crash and Burn," "Dibs," "Beautiful Drug," etc. may not sound very country at all, but can anyone really see these becoming #1 or even Top 20 hits on pop radio? I certainly can't, and I think that's why these artists continue to release their music to country radio. They may be arguably not country enough, but they wouldn't even be taken seriously as pop songs and would likely struggle to compete with established pop artists and more poppy sounds for airplay. I think if artists who had been at country radio for their entire careers suddenly switched over to pop radio, they would see most of their singles peak in the 20s on the airplay charts like we saw with pop releases "Wanted," "Take Your Time," and "This Is How We Roll," or at best scrape the Top 10 like "Cruise." Why would a record label or artist feel the need to take such a risk in switching over to pop radio when they know country radio will always consistently play their music to the Top 5 on the airplay charts?
This is why I think it would be best to see the country format split up into two segments, Classical Country and Modern Country. This would solve everything. People like me who enjoy the pop-leaning stuff would still get to hear their favorite songs on mainstream radio, if anything in a "purer" environment free of the few traditional songs from artists like George Strait, Kacey Musgraves, and Mo Pitney who occasionally sneak a song into the mix, while the fans of traditional music would suddenly have a whole new radio format exclusive to their favorite type of music. Additionally, this would help artists like Kacey Musgraves, who every complains would be 1000x more popular if radio would give her exposure, to gain more popularity by reaching a whole new group of classic country fans who still listen to the radio.
A song like "Live Forever" would never do anything on pop radio, but being sent to country radio it has a strong chance of managing a steady climb into the Top 5. It would be perfect on a station devoted to "Modern Country."
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freeman
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Post by freeman on Sept 26, 2015 15:20:58 GMT -5
I agree. :) Sometimes people assume to know what is going on in other people's minds when in reality it's impossible. Maybe they're being genuine maybe not. Only they know. I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst. I understand Kimberly's defensive words because it seems a lot of people are attacking them on not being authentic and she should stand up for herself. It's not whiny or bratty to be defensive. They've always been accused of not being country, or authentic country singers. The difference is before it was just from country fans, now it's from music critics. I really doubt they'd be this defensive if industry insiders with big online following weren't being so critical of their new sound. These "attacks" are coming from people that actually matter, people who actually know what they're talking about. What we, some randoms on the internet, say doesn't really affect TBP much. We are just gooing to be labeled as "haters" being mean because we're "jealous". Their actual problem is what the influential people are saying. "I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst."
woop, sounds like you're the type to call us all troll-looking-jealous-haters-living-in-their-moms-basement. I would never call anyone a hater or jealous or a troll. Labeling anyone with such negative words is not something I find effective in an argument. I take everyone's opinions and consider them. I wouldn't simply dismiss anyone. I calmly stated my opinion to get my point across that one cannot assume to know what lies in someone else's heart and mind. I wrote that line in there to show that yes I do have a bias and perhaps I am incorrect about their intentions but I just wanted to show where I am coming from.
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matty005
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Post by matty005 on Sept 26, 2015 21:43:35 GMT -5
They've always been accused of not being country, or authentic country singers. The difference is before it was just from country fans, now it's from music critics. I really doubt they'd be this defensive if industry insiders with big online following weren't being so critical of their new sound. These "attacks" are coming from people that actually matter, people who actually know what they're talking about. What we, some randoms on the internet, say doesn't really affect TBP much. We are just gooing to be labeled as "haters" being mean because we're "jealous". Their actual problem is what the influential people are saying. "I like to take their side since I adore them as a band and as people so maybe I am blinded but I don't like to assume the worst."
woop, sounds like you're the type to call us all troll-looking-jealous-haters-living-in-their-moms-basement. I would never call anyone a hater or jealous or a troll. Labeling anyone with such negative words is not something I find effective in an argument. I take everyone's opinions and consider them. I wouldn't simply dismiss anyone. I calmly stated my opinion to get my point across that one cannot assume to know what lies in someone else's heart and mind. I wrote that line in there to show that yes I do have a bias and perhaps I am incorrect about their intentions but I just wanted to show where I am coming from. And with that said, nobody in this thread was called a "hater" or told they were jealous. While that may happen at other places on the Internet, it is very seldom seen here in the country forum.
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 27, 2015 10:41:37 GMT -5
Let me say, I was just joking with the "jealous haters" comment. I used the emoji to show it... clearly didn't work.
About these popish songs being released to country radio... it's because these artists have made a name for themselves in country, that's where their core fanbase is and it's a lot safer for them to release it there than in pop. They wait to see how it works in country first and then see if they will send to pop radio. I don't think they do it because they know it will do bad on pop radio, they obviously are hoping it might do well over at pop. When TBP (and probably others) say things like "pop radio is asking for country music", it's because they probably believe songs like Live Forever, Crash & Burn, etc. have a chance in pop radio. I think the pop fans here know that they don't; but the labels and artists in Nashville might be naïve about this.
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Sept 27, 2015 12:58:45 GMT -5
On the subject of whether The Band Perry is being true to themselves with "Live Forever," the issue for me is less whether they are doing what they want and more that in doing what they want, they seem to be losing touch with what makes them distinctive as artists and also what they do well. It's easy to believe that The Band Perry doesn't want to get pigeonholed by the Southern Gothic folky feel of their two biggest hits and that it is searching for a brighter, bigger sound to offset it. But they have yet to find an alternative that they deliver as well, as far as I'm concerned. I agree with .indulgecountry that some aspects of "Live Forever," are extensions of what we heard on Pioneer -- the chanty pre-chorus "We're going to live, we're going to live forever," for example, sounds like it's straight from the Queen playbook that The Band Perry consulted on their previous album. But as someone who felt that significant portions of Pioneer reflected The Band Perry's move to an arena sound that doesn't suit them, the type of continuity from that album isn't a welcome development. I also think that the sense of departure has been aggravated by The Band Perry's shift in presentation -- their wardrobe has gone from rocker black on Pioneer to skater chic. About these popish songs being released to country radio... it's because these artists have made a name for themselves in country, that's where their core fanbase is and it's a lot safer for them to release it there than in pop. They wait to see how it works in country first and then see if they will send to pop radio. I don't think they do it because they know it will do bad on pop radio, they obviously are hoping it might do well over at pop. When TBP (and probably others) say things like "pop radio is asking for country music", it's because they probably believe songs like Live Forever, Crash & Burn, etc. have a chance in pop radio. I think the pop fans here know that they don't; but the labels and artists in Nashville might be naïve about this. I agree with this. Looking at Neil Perry's quote ("People think if there’s country music going to pop radio that the country artists are going to pop, but a lot of times it’s pop asking for that."), it seems to me that he might have been referring to the fact that when country singles seem to have crossover potential, the feedback country artists usually get is that pop programmers like the singles and would be happy to play the singles if they were remixed to fit the format (which, with very rare exceptions, the country singles generally are). I think he mistakes that kind of "asking for that" as actual interest from the pop side. I'll have to find the links, but there are some statistics on audience duplication among formats, which is to say what percentage of people who listen to a particular format of radio (say, country), who also listen to another. I believe the recent data suggests that a greater percentage of country listeners also listen to the CHR/Pop format than the percentage of CHR/Pop listeners who also listen to country. That explains both the pop trend among some rising country artists and the lack of recent crossover success. Speaking of the pop trend... Some of the points made in this thread, about pop radio not really wanting country music like TBP says they do, to me perfectly explain the reason we currently have such a "genre problem." Stuff like "Live Forever," "Crash and Burn," "Dibs," "Beautiful Drug," etc. may not sound very country at all, but can anyone really see these becoming #1 or even Top 20 hits on pop radio? I certainly can't, and I think that's why these artists continue to release their music to country radio. They may be arguably not country enough, but they wouldn't even be taken seriously as pop songs and would likely struggle to compete with established pop artists and more poppy sounds for airplay. I think if artists who had been at country radio for their entire careers suddenly switched over to pop radio, they would see most of their singles peak in the 20s on the airplay charts like we saw with pop releases "Wanted," "Take Your Time," and "This Is How We Roll," or at best scrape the Top 10 like "Cruise." Why would a record label or artist feel the need to take such a risk in switching over to pop radio when they know country radio will always consistently play their music to the Top 5 on the airplay charts? I think that you are accurately depicting the Nashville label mentality with the above, so I hope that it's understood that what follows is a critique of that mentality and not of you for describing it. When I read the above, I think, "Of course the pop formats are not going to give Thomas Rhett the time of day -- why would they pay any attention to a Bruno Mars wannabe when they already have the actual Bruno Mars, a far superior singer and superlative performer releasing smashes for them? What need is there on the pop formats for Kelsea Ballerini when Taylor Swift is releasing fun, flirty pop tunes dedicated to their audience?" And while what you describe explains the point of view of (nominally) country artists with pop envy, the problem is that their current mentality consigns country radio to what is essentially second-rate or third-rate (or worse) pop -- throwaways that aren't big or bold enough to make it on other formats, but country radio settles for them. For those of us who believe that country has something more distinct to offer -- superlative singing and/or songwriting of its own (some of which has come from The Band Perry in the past), it's even more difficult to simply accept a single like "Live Forever." Country radio has spent the last few years subsuming individuality in the interest of becoming home to second- or third-rate mainstream rock, and the follow-up trend appears to be second or third-rate mainstream pop or pop/R&B. And this is coming in a time when there is a lot of artistically vital, popular country music being made that actually is country. So these days, as the distance between country music and the country radio grows, it's not so much country music that is losing its identity -- it is country radio that is losing its identity. And long-term, it's difficult to see how that trend is a winning proposition for country radio. A similar sentiment applies to The Band Perry and "Live Forever." It's not hard to see their rationale for chasing a pop sound in light of current country radio and if they wish to broaden themselves beyond the sound of their signature singles, just as it's not hard to see the rationale for country's turn to rock and to pop and pop/R&B. But to the extent it comes at the expense of individual identity, it seems like a myopic move for both, one that doesn't come from a place of strength and confidence but rather reads as a placeholder grab at relevance while figuring out who they want to be. And I think the leads into the other issue here, which I alluded to when I started this post and that has been mentioned several times upthread. It's not just that "Live Forever" is a pop song -- it's a pop song shows no hallmarks of being distinctively and compellingly The Band Perry. It's not just that country radio is overwhelmed by singles not even attempting to be country -- it's that the pop, rock or R&B singles show no hallmark of being distinctively and compellingly unique to the format. While there will always be discontent no matter what, I don't think that we would be hearing this much discontent about "Live Forever" or about country radio if the product being delivered were compelling and distinctive enough on its own merits and were a proper showcase for what makes its purveyors irreplaceable and unique.
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 27, 2015 18:05:29 GMT -5
TBP has said many times they want their sound to go with arena shows. That's what they did with Pioneer and with this new album.
No need for links or statistics. Ask at any pop music forum or online community; most fans will say they're not into country. I witnessed people saying many times they can't stand it. When country music is shared, only a select few members will show interest. There is also a stereotypical view of country music: men that sound the same singing about the same cliched things, female singers nowhere to be found. It's enough to turn people off, definitely turns me off.
I left a comment on Crash & Burn (truly awful song imo) that it sounds like something the Jonas Brothers would release in 2008. I also listened to Kelsea Ballerini's music... just like Live Forever, these songs sound dated, generic and like they belong on Radio Disney. Only on country radio they can be hits. Pop radio will never pick any of this up, it's all very second and third rate sounding! Country publications might as well just stop asking about crossover potential: take it from a pop fan, these songs do not have any crossover potential. They're just not good enough and are very lacking. Big disappointment, to waste so much money working with big name pop/edm/hip hop producers and the final result is something that sounds like poor leftover tracks that A and B list pop artists would reject. I listened to TBP's debut album today... someone here said it sounds dated... Live Forever sounds very dated to me, I thought it the first time I heard it and still think it now.
I think the Nash Next interview I shared says it all... they are chasing the current trends on country radio, every single move they've been making since this new era begun is about staying relevant. Instead of doing their own thing they're playing it safe, imitating everyone else. I don't know if they're confused about who they are, but I know I am. Who is the real TBP? What is their true sound? I'm not sure... actually, I have no idea. I guess I can always laugh at them saying they aimed at "excellence" and wrote "their best music ever"... LOL.
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Post by Deleted on Sept 27, 2015 18:29:21 GMT -5
I gotta admit, 43dudleyvillas, your outlook on country radio was quite depressing, lol. I tend to take a less cynical view (perhaps not justifiably so) that the reason some of these artists don't have as much success at pop radio is simply label and radio politics. Sam Hunt is a great example. His music and style are certainly original. I can't think of any notable consistent pop hit-maker who has a similar style. His single "Take Your Time" was released to Top 40 radio and seemed to really connect with non-country fans. TYT was actually out-selling many pop hits that have gone top-5 on the airplay charts, as it spent the better part of its short Top 40 run in the top-20 on iTunes, yet it still only peaked in the 20s on the airplay chart. He definitely has major crossover potential, but I doubt his label will want to take the risk of switching him entirely off of country radio since they already know his music will be consistently successful on the country charts, while it may be a challenge to get pop radio to play his music, regardless of how well it resonates with pop fans. Could this simply be because pop radio has doubts about the loyalty of country artists to their format? The Band Perry themselves have experienced this same situation. "If I Die Young" was a totally original, unique song that connected with pop fans, yet it only managed to peak at #11 on the Top 40 airplay chart, even though at the time it peaked it was out-selling songs in the top-10 from Katy Perry, Britney Spears, OneRepublic, and Lil Wayne. I think the issue here didn't have anything to do with pop radio feeling IIDY was any sort of knock-off or third-rate "copycat." I may have been more of an issue with pop radio not wanting to play an act that got its big break on country radio and crossed over to pop as an afterthought. They'd rather play artists whose careers originated on pop radio, and have formed more close relationships with pop programmers. It's kind of a similar situation to when we hear that country radio is skeptical to play artists like Jana Kramer and Lucy Hale whose fame comes from their acting careers, or Sheryl Crow, who first broke in the AC format and then crossed over to country radio towards the end of her career. Why would an act like TBP want to risk struggling to make the top-10 on the pop charts when they have already worked so hard to develop relationships with country radio and cement a place as a B-list act at minimum?
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 27, 2015 19:34:56 GMT -5
Why would an act like TBP want to risk struggling to make the top-10 on the pop charts when they have already worked so hard to develop relationships with country radio and cement a place as a B-list act at minimum? Maybe you should direct this question to Scott Borchetta?
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Post by 43dudleyvillas on Sept 27, 2015 22:39:52 GMT -5
I tend to take a less cynical view (perhaps not justifiably so) that the reason some of these artists don't have as much success at pop radio is simply label and radio politics. Sam Hunt is a great example. His music and style are certainly original. I can't think of any notable consistent pop hit-maker who has a similar style. His single "Take Your Time" was released to Top 40 radio and seemed to really connect with non-country fans. TYT was actually out-selling many pop hits that have gone top-5 on the airplay charts, as it spent the better part of its short Top 40 run in the top-20 on iTunes, yet it still only peaked in the 20s on the airplay chart. He definitely has major crossover potential, but I doubt his label will want to take the risk of switching him entirely off of country radio since they already know his music will be consistently successful on the country charts, while it may be a challenge to get pop radio to play his music, regardless of how well it resonates with pop fans. Could this simply be because pop radio has doubts about the loyalty of country artists to their format? I actually don't think that Sam Hunt is particularly original. "Leave the Night On," for example, could easily have been a Script or Jason Mraz song, and the soulful spoken word combination is hardly fresh to anyone who has listened to Mraz, Mat Kearney and Matt Nathanson, who have all done reasonably well on the Hot AC format. The fact that all four of the artists I mentioned fared considerably better on Hot AC than the Top-40 format (and that all four would struggle to get a look at either format now) is probably indicative of why "Take Your Time" fared the way it did. And this all leaves aside the "early Drake" comparison that follows Sam Hunt wherever he goes, when it's clear their music arose as an answer to the misguided machismo that had overtaken their respective genres. All that said, the difference between The Band Perry in "Live Forever" and Sam Hunt is that Sam Hunt sounds like he is making exactly the kind of music he was born to make. The Band Perry themselves have experienced this same situation. "If I Die Young" was a totally original, unique song that connected with pop fans, yet it only managed to peak at #11 on the Top 40 airplay chart, even though at the time it peaked it was out-selling songs in the top-10 from Katy Perry, Britney Spears, OneRepublic, and Lil Wayne. I think the issue here didn't have anything to do with pop radio feeling IIDY was any sort of knock-off or third-rate "copycat." I may have been more of an issue with pop radio not wanting to play an act that got its big break on country radio and crossed over to pop as an afterthought. They'd rather play artists whose careers originated on pop radio, and have formed more close relationships with pop programmers. Well, if there is one thing consistently echoed by programmers who come to country from the pop formats, it's that they are blown away by the access they have to country artists compared to the access they had to pop artists. So I don't think it's a question of close relationships between pop programmers and pop artists. I do agree, though, that each format tends to favor those who broke through on that format over those who broke through on another format (at least when it comes to sustained support after a breakthrough hit) and that "If I Die Young"'s Top-40 fate was not a reflection of it being copycat in any way. Rather, I think its fate was the by-product of the lyric being too dark for pop at the time. My copycat, third-rate point was about the obviously crossover-minded singles being released to country radio of late, because those are more obviously derivative of recent Top-40 trends. The Band Perry's journey from "If I Die Young" (a song that crossed over despite not fitting the pop format, due to its resonance and uniqueness) to "Live Forever" mirrors an overall trend that I described in this post in the Thomas Rhett, "Crash & Burn" thread -- whereas mainstream country artists with crossover potential used to provide country radio with material that would distinguish it from other formats, the current trend seems to be to try to establish crossover appeal by providing the country format with material that imitates the current sound & hit artists of other formats. It all reads as a studied effort to fit in, whereas until recently, a lot of country's biggest crossover hits in the past decade had come via music that stood out. And whereas past crossover efforts may have fallen short at the pop formats because they were too different, the current crossover efforts seem doomed before they start because they chase current pop hitmakers without doing anything those hitmakers can't do/haven't already done. They are, by pop standards, passé, and their presence at country radio makes the format look creatively sub-standard by association. Why would an act like TBP want to risk struggling to make the top-10 on the pop charts when they have already worked so hard to develop relationships with country radio and cement a place as a B-list act at minimum? Again, it's quite obvious that country radio is a crutch for The Band Perry right now. That's easy to understand from The Band Perry's point of view, but among people who look to country radio to provide distinctive product, The Band Perry's choices with "Live Forever" are hardly to going to be something that inspire respect or celebration. More than a few posts in this thread put responsibility for The Band Perry's turn in Scott Borchetta's lap. It's hard to argue against that given the direction of several Big Machine artists. But on the other hand, Borchetta's comments about their new music in this HDD interview that posted a few months ago represented about as tepid an endorsement as I've seen Borchetta give:
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Post by missbehaving on Sept 28, 2015 8:32:51 GMT -5
More quotes from interviews:
“We’re writing the best music we have ever written. We’re in a great place in life; things are going so well. The new music is going to be really exciting. There are going to be big beats, which will make for a big show. The three of us love playing live, and we always think of the live content. The new album will definitely lend itself to big sing-alongs.”
“I do (have a personal favorite). I probably would be killed by my siblings if I told you the title. I will tell you that some of my favorite songs are yet to come on the album. I love ‘Live,’ but even the songs behind it I’m so excited about. These are definitely our favorite songs that we have ever gotten to write. We love ‘If I Die Young,’ ‘Better Dig Two,’ ‘Done,’ but we’re in a really cool, creative space. And I think everyone is going to dig the energy when they listen to the new music."
- Neil Perry, New England Country Music
“We love hip hop, and it’s a really interesting blend to bring to country,”
“Reid, Neil and I are such students and fans of all kinds of music. On our iPhone, we have everything from Bach and Beethoven to Michael Jackson to Kanye West and everything in between. We sort of had these people that we really had fallen in love with that we wanted to work with. … It was a really great experience of finding all these people whose music we love and dance to – and, by the way, they’re all country fans, and they really wanted to work with us as well — so it was just this cool matchmaking experience. I think the songs that were born out of that are some of the most special ones we’ve ever gotten to do.”
“And (he rides) his own scooter at the studio, at Record Plant. The day we were writing, first of all, RedOne’s coming in on his scooter with his nametag on it … I was like, by the way, Justin Bieber has one of those, too. Bieber was actually down the hall on his scooter working on some music. Then, Lady Gaga, at one point this day, she walked into the studio where we were writing 'Live Forever.’ She was like, 'Can I hear it?’ We were like, 'Are you kidding? We would love for you to hear it! Please tell us your thoughts, give us your feedback.’ All that she kept saying was, "I love it. I just want to hear more of Neil’s mandolin.’ I’m like, 'Turn the mandolin up.’ It was one of those heavenly making musical days where all these crazy, amazing characters were around. It was a fun one.”
- Kimberly Perry, New Jersey press
“We’ve had more fun making this album than ever before,” Kimberly said. “On every other project, we’ve been touring while we’ve been recording. This time, we gave ourselves the luxury of taking a moment off the road to really just wake up and go to sleep every day thinking about the album and our future music.”
While some may express concern about the pop-leaning nature of “Live Forever”, the band members say they fully embrace the direction country music is headed but are also respectful of its past.
“What I know for sure is that our fans have always supported the three of us and have encouraged us to reach as far as we possibly can with our music,” Kimberly said. “We are so proud of where country music’s history lies. We’re also really, really excited about the future of country.
“I feel like for the first time ever, it seems like country has no creative glass ceiling. And that’s a great thing for country music.”
- TBP, CMT Hot 20 Countdown
I will try and share more quotes from the band, as new interviews come in. I think better than speculating just between us, is figuring out the band's perspective.
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Post by missbehaving on Oct 2, 2015 18:21:21 GMT -5
bumping this because they played a new song at a radio show in Atlanta this week:
Don't know the title, probably has something to do with the word "together", might even be the chorus "we're getting together"?
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sabre14
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Post by sabre14 on Oct 2, 2015 18:47:42 GMT -5
I know many fans out there are hoping for this upcoming album to have some songs on it that would have fitted well with debut album but after everything I've heard, that's not going to happen. "Live Forever" is just the tip of the iceberg.
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Post by missbehaving on Oct 2, 2015 19:20:28 GMT -5
I know many fans out there are hoping for this upcoming album to have some songs on it that would have fitted well with debut album but after everything I've heard, that's not going to happen. "Live Forever" is just the tip of the iceberg. Definitely! They have seem to become addicted to the heys and woahs. First they tell us to go crazy because we'll live forever, now they tells us to get together and do whatever... Honestly, listening to this and Live Forever all I can think of is a bunch of college kids having a beach party, getting drunk and stoned, making out and more... it's just the vision I have when listening to songs like these. TBP seem to have reached their "don't-give-a-f***-just-party" mode with this next album.
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dm2081
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Post by dm2081 on Oct 2, 2015 19:22:18 GMT -5
^The chorus is catchy and all, but they sound like a boy band singing that, not a country group. I didn't hear one shred of country instruments at all. If I was blindfolded and didn't read anything before listening to it, I'd honestly would have thought it was One Direction or something.
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Post by missbehaving on Oct 2, 2015 19:44:11 GMT -5
^The chorus is catchy and all, but they sound like a boy band singing that, not a country group. I didn't hear one shred of country instruments at all. If I was blindfolded and didn't read anything before listening to it, I'd honestly would have thought it was One Direction or something. I have to stop listening, only sounds worse with each listen. I think it's obvious now that all that matters to TBP is catchy music, catchy chorus, shallow lyrics, random repetitiveness that adds nothing to the song, something that the "kids" will like and the radio will play. It's like they gave up trying to make quality music and write quality lyrics. I get wanting to chill and have fun, but at least have some common sense and don't call these the best songs you've written, don't even try to say this is what "excellence" in music is. These songs are Radio Disney level, like you said, sounds like something a boyband like 1D would sing. Claiming songs like this and LF as their "best work yet" is offensive to songs from both previous albums.
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Post by missbehaving on Oct 3, 2015 11:34:41 GMT -5
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.indulgecountry
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"You left a mark on my face // And brought a dozen red flags in a vase"
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Post by .indulgecountry on Oct 3, 2015 14:16:15 GMT -5
That high note tho. Can't wait to hear more new music from them! <3
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jesster
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Post by jesster on Oct 3, 2015 18:30:02 GMT -5
Does it still count as three-part family harmony when they appear to be singing to a vocal track? Esp the boys, though Reid is at least within potentially operative distance from his microphone this time.
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